Switch Theme:

Which codex would you remove to trim down the game ? (multiple choice poll)  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Poll
Which codex would you remove to trim down the game ? (multiple choice poll)
Astra Militarum
Adepta Sororitas
Adeptus Mechanicus
Chaos Space marines
Chaos Daemons
Eldar
Dark Eldar
Necrons
Orks
T'au
Tyranids
Genestealers cult
Adeptus Custodes
Space Marine chapters standalone codex
Harlequins
Inquisition
Imperial knights/chaos knights
Greyknights
I would keep every standalone codex
Death Guard
Thousand Sons

View results
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut





I voted.

I think the keep'em all option would get more votes if it didn't include the negative "I like bloat" that couldn't be resisted by the poll's designer.

It's the only option in the list that contains built in ridicule and judgement.
   
Made in ie
Ruthless Rafkin





 xeen wrote:
I would not get rid of any faction at this point, that is unfair to people who bought the models. We are stuck with what we have.



Why? Didn't stop GW squatting Squats, Brets, Tomb Kings etc. I could see them dropping Harlequins, Knights, Custodes, Grey Knights, Sisters Of Silence, Inquisition, Ynarri etc without much fuss.


 
   
Made in nl
[DCM]
Secret Inquisitorial Eldar Xenexecutor






your mind

I like the poll.

Imho SoB should be part of an inquisition codex, but otherwise I voted with the most popular selections.

   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




Miami, Florida

1 codex for all space marines and dump some of the named troops to a general "Captain" "LT" etc.

Waaagh! 
   
Made in ie
Regular Dakkanaut





Ireland

T’au for me. They look like something from the wrong universe, still can’t understand how they made it into the game.
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

Custodes, Knights (both flavours), Harlis (put 'em in the other two Eldar books), Daemons (put 'em in the other Chaos books).

And Tau. Because of course the Tau.

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




NE Ohio, USA

I wouldn't drop factions so much as consolidate some of the books.
   
Made in us
Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot





Non-Grey Knight Marine Chapters and Harlequins (put them back into the D/Eldar codexes).

Either expand Grey Knights with Inquisition units again or turn them into a SM supplement.
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





I thin consolidating books is better. Put Inquisiton, SOB and GK into the same Codex.

Whack Custodes, SOS and Assassins into the same dex.

Get rid of all the Marine dexes, put them into one. Same with DG, TS and CSM.

Stick daemons into the CSM dex like days of old.

Stick Knights together (both Chaos and Loyal variants).

Keep dexes the same price.

As for permanently getting rid of a faction. I'd say none entirely. You can mitigate some, lie the space marine factions but i'd not entirely remove any.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/08 00:50:52


- 10,000 pts CSM  
   
Made in gb
Executing Exarch






Interesting.
I diditn realise Inquisition has a codex. Was this a WD index ?

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/772746.page#10378083 - My progress/failblog painting blog thingy

Eldar- 4436 pts


AngryAngel80 wrote:
I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "


 Eonfuzz wrote:


I would much rather everyone have a half ass than no ass.


"A warrior does not seek fame and honour. They come to him as he humbly follows his path"  
   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut





The Crusade rules show us how many real factions there are:

Imperium
Chaos
Orks
Tyranids
Necrons
Eldar
Tau

Which is obviously broken up by species (and ideology in the case of chaos).



I think you could break down the existing books into between 1-3 books per faction:

Imperium
Marines
Imperial agents (inquisitors, assassins, grey knights, sisters, custodes etc)
Imperial armies (Admech, guard, knights)

Chaos
Marines
daemons
renegades (cultists, rebels, knights)


That leaves the remaining 5 to have between 1 and 3 codexes per faction.

imo they could all have at least 2:

Eldar
craftworlds
drukhari

orks
waaagh the orks
Odd mobz (freebootaz, feral orks, speed freaks etc)

tyranids
hive fleets
genestealer cults (with rules for cults from the other organic factions - even chaos)

necrons
dynasties
the enslaved (old crons controlled by ctan shards)


tau
empire
Auxilliaries (kroot and other aliens/humans)



   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut





For those suggesting consolidations involving Inquisition:

Sororitas go with Hereticus
Death Watch go with Xenos
Grey Knights go with Malleus

So you can add the Inquisition Ordo into the appropriate dex (fail because if you like all flavours of Inquisition, you need 3 books)

OR you could put all six factions in one book, which would be fairly large book, but probably not more sheets than Marines, so probably doable.

Those are the only options that really make sense, because they are the only solutions that solve ALL of the Inq/ Chamber Militant issues.
   
Made in us
Did Fulgrim Just Behead Ferrus?




Noctis Labyrinthus

 Gnarlly wrote:
Adeptus Custodes: The Emperor's personal bodyguard should stay on Terra; why are they now fighting battles across the galaxy? This is an army that should never have been created. A couple models for collectors, sure, but not an entire faction.


To justify the mind-bogglingly insane cost to create and maintain them. Guilliman getting them off their lazy asses and actually doing something beyond standing next to a big chair for ten thousand years is one of the better parts of the new lore and it is laughable to suggest that there is any justifiable reason for them to be glorified garden gnomes in the palace.


Automatically Appended Next Post:


Well financially it would ruin Games Workshop and you'd have to be deluded to argue otherwise.

People like Marines more than Guard my man.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/08 01:42:28


 
   
Made in it
Gargantuan Gargant




Italy

Amazing, the only codex that I would remove is also the only one missing in the pool.

I'd remove Codex Space Marines, keeping only 4-5 standalone chapters. Each with just 25-30% of shared units, basically vehicles.

Then maybe I'd remove Codexes Imperial Knights and Chaos Knights, spreading their datasheets into other imperium and chaos codexes.


 
   
Made in pl
Fixture of Dakka




PenitentJake wrote:
For those suggesting consolidations involving Inquisition:

Sororitas go with Hereticus
Death Watch go with Xenos
Grey Knights go with Malleus

So you can add the Inquisition Ordo into the appropriate dex (fail because if you like all flavours of Inquisition, you need 3 books)

OR you could put all six factions in one book, which would be fairly large book, but probably not more sheets than Marines, so probably doable.

Those are the only options that really make sense, because they are the only solutions that solve ALL of the Inq/ Chamber Militant issues.


Or leave DW, SoB and GK alone, and leave the inquisition stuff for the BL or maybe give them a unit entry that can be put in to any imperial army. Having GK,SoB and DW in the same book would more or less invalidate the majority of the armies. Why take GK or DW, when SoB have just more point efficient units? Why ask for DW or GK to be improved, when the counter argument is always going to be, inquisition codex is fine, just play with more SoB units.

If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain. 
   
Made in ie
Ruthless Rafkin





 Void__Dragon wrote:
[


Well financially it would ruin Games Workshop and you'd have to be deluded to argue otherwise.

People like Marines more than Guard my man.


So? That wasn't the question.


 
   
Made in pl
Fixture of Dakka




 Sim-Life wrote:


So? That wasn't the question.


Because , as the local saying goes, it is different to squat an army which isn't half of all your armies and one that is. . Something like GK or Harlequins are not the same as Space marines. As JS said quantity, at some breach point becomes quality. And for GW marines are the highest quality thing they have.

If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain. 
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle






The only codex I would actually consider dropping, as in pull it and the contents from the game entirely, would be imp/chaos knights. Pretty self explanatory. But I would rather they get rolled into other 'dexes.

ccs wrote:
I wouldn't drop factions so much as consolidate some of the books.
I do imagine this is a large sentiment. I seriously doubt anyone is suggesting, for example, that SW, BA, DA get removed from the game.

I think GK and Inquisition should have stayed together, and I don't think it would be out of line to roll Custodes, Sisters of Silence and Assassins in there as well. An 'Agents of the Imperium' Codex could cover all of them. Imperial Knights could go into both that and AdMech. Chaos Knights could go into both CSM and DarkMech.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/08 07:48:32


Road to Renown! It's like classic Path to Glory, but repaired, remastered, expanded! https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/778170.page

I chose an avatar I feel best represents the quality of my post history.
ERJAK wrote:
...probably has a some amount of Nazi memorabilia, has many concerning opinions about racial and cultural minorities, and/or likely refers to women as 'females'.
--Saying this about another member does not violate Dakka's Rule #1, apparently. 
   
Made in ie
Ruthless Rafkin





Karol wrote:
 Sim-Life wrote:


So? That wasn't the question.


Because , as the local saying goes, it is different to squat an army which isn't half of all your armies and one that is. . Something like GK or Harlequins are not the same as Space marines. As JS said quantity, at some breach point becomes quality. And for GW marines are the highest quality thing they have.


But why would axing space marines as an army make the game worse? Ignoring stuff like financial sense or popularity. What do space marines do for the game or setting?


 
   
Made in pl
Fixture of Dakka




Yeah and then the design of an army would go something like this. Why take strikes, when SoB squads are cheaper and more point efficient? Want to run paladins or termintors? Custodes have better ones, including ones on jetbikes.

Want to play mono GK anyway, good luck getting any model or rules updates, because GW will be doing stuff for custodes and SoB, because they are new and fresh. So maybe you will get a character ever 3 years. Better hope it is really game breaking to carry the entire list.


If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain. 
   
Made in ch
Warped Arch Heretic of Chaos





 Sim-Life wrote:
 xeen wrote:
I would not get rid of any faction at this point, that is unfair to people who bought the models. We are stuck with what we have.



Why? Didn't stop GW squatting Squats, Brets, Tomb Kings etc. I could see them dropping Harlequins, Knights, Custodes, Grey Knights, Sisters Of Silence, Inquisition, Ynarri etc without much fuss.


considering we allready lost 3 factions for 40k recently, factions mind you that were longer around f.e. than ynari (and better background to boot, looking at corsairs) or are supposedly the mainline for said faction( cue R&H) i don't think we need to remove more factions.
There's an argument to be made to consolidate Harlequins and ynnari, but consolidate in a correct way and not just taking over 1 entry each and then call it a job done, like gw does like to do.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

In the 41st millennium there is only overpriced hamberders.

 
   
Made in us
Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator





Lincolnton, N.C.

Custodes and Greyknights should be no more than one off choices in the Inquisition. Knights and Knight like units shouldn't be seen above 2000 points and even then as a 'you can have only one' kind of deal.



My beloved 40K armies:
Children of Stirba
Order of Saint Pan Thera


DR:80S+++G+M+B++IPw40K(3)00-D++A+++/cWD233R---T(M)DM+ 
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






Karol wrote:
Yeah and then the design of an army would go something like this. Why take strikes, when SoB squads are cheaper and more point efficient? Want to run paladins or termintors? Custodes have better ones, including ones on jetbikes.

Want to play mono GK anyway, good luck getting any model or rules updates, because GW will be doing stuff for custodes and SoB, because they are new and fresh. So maybe you will get a character ever 3 years. Better hope it is really game breaking to carry the entire list.



In they first real stand-alone codex GK, Inquisition and assassins were all part of one army. While it was a bit ham-fisted, it provided the army as a whole with much more tools than they have now.

Earth is not flat
Vaccines work
We've been to the moon
Climate change is real
Chemtrails aren't a thing
Evolution is a fact
Orks are not a melee army
Stand up for science!
 
   
Made in pl
Fixture of Dakka




Yes. And from what I have been told, it was one of the worse codex GW ever made, to a point where GW itself said that they never ment to have it played as a stand alone codex.

I have seen a pdf of the book. High cost units with melee options and the only way to get them in to range being a land raider, no razorbacks or rhinos. Strikes with str 6 weapons that didn't even ignore saves save for the leader, but zero chance to actually get in to melee range. Terminators costs as if they had 3 or 4 wounds each, same str 6 weapons, that actually did ignore saves, existing in a world where a terminator had the life expectancy of a guardsman.

Even the OP 5th ed GK codex, from what I have seen, had its best builds based around spaming vehicles, cheap inqusitorial stuff, and the only GK stuff in those lists were 6 dreadnoughts and maybe something like a Draigo. No strikes, no termintors. And the other build they had was described as a noob stomper, good only vs people who fell for the play what you want slogan. If GK improvement were to mean, the army would turn in to a spam of 3 model squads and ton of vehicles, then I say thank you to that.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
 KingmanHighborn wrote:
Custodes and Greyknights should be no more than one off choices in the Inquisition. Knights and Knight like units shouldn't be seen above 2000 points and even then as a 'you can have only one' kind of deal.




Then what are people suppose to do that play those armies? You can use one squad, and lets hope it is good, and now to play you need to buy another army.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/08 08:39:57


If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain. 
   
Made in gb
Ship's Officer





Bristol (UK)

Space Marines are pretty fundemental to the 40k setting.

Gamewise, they provide heavy armoured infantry which are pretty fundamental to this sort of diesel punk grimdark setting that 40k is.

If you were to completely reset 40k, ignoring all existing collections, one could argue that Space Marines should be reduced to a sub-faction, not dissimilar to Tempestus are now. To represent their small strike force nature.
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






Karol wrote:
Even the OP 5th ed GK codex, from what I have seen, had its best builds based around spaming vehicles, cheap inqusitorial stuff, and the only GK stuff in those lists were 6 dreadnoughts and maybe something like a Draigo. No strikes, no termintors. And the other build they had was described as a noob stomper, good only vs people who fell for the play what you want slogan. If GK improvement were to mean, the army would turn in to a spam of 3 model squads and ton of vehicles, then I say thank you to that.


That's how all 5th edition codices were. If they were lucky.

Then what are people suppose to do that play those armies? You can use one squad, and lets hope it is good, and now to play you need to buy another army.

This is nothing but a mind game. IMO no one should be losing support for their models unless there is a magic genie which will somehow fix all the problems stemming from squatting stuff.
Losing non-model rules shouldn't be a problem, so toning down all the Space Marine chapters to gain the same support as chaos legions get could actually be a good change.

Putting the Ordo Malleus back with the GK also seems like an all upside change. You barely see inquisition anywhere and they fit well thematically.

Earth is not flat
Vaccines work
We've been to the moon
Climate change is real
Chemtrails aren't a thing
Evolution is a fact
Orks are not a melee army
Stand up for science!
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Necrons, just because I hate them, sorry necron players, I'm sure I still love you.
   
Made in it
Perfect Shot Dark Angels Predator Pilot





Sesto San Giovanni, Italy

I don't think reducing the faction number by itself will be inherently positive. I get that maybe you can reduce bloat and get a better balance in the system, but you can do that without having to sacrifice standalone codexes.

I know that the hearsay usually is "there are too many faction" "the game is too complex to be balanced" and similar bullshits.
It's false. If my company (which is slightly smaller than GW) can sell and maintain a software with more than 10 million of lines of code without crashes, there is not reason a game system can't do the same (also we are held accountable at much higher standards).

I can't condone a place where abusers and abused are threated the same: it's destined to doom, so there is no reason to participate in it. 
   
Made in ie
Ruthless Rafkin





 kirotheavenger wrote:
Space Marines are pretty fundemental to the 40k setting.

Gamewise, they provide heavy armoured infantry which are pretty fundamental to this sort of diesel punk grimdark setting that 40k is.

If you were to completely reset 40k, ignoring all existing collections, one could argue that Space Marines should be reduced to a sub-faction, not dissimilar to Tempestus are now. To represent their small strike force nature.


They were fundamental in 40k because of the Horus Heresy but thats where their role in the setting ended for the most part. Most of the planets in the Imperium will never be set foot upon by a space marine. Many citizens of the Imperium think they're literal angels. Even most Guardsmen will never see one. They're figures of myth and legend and that is far more interesting than them being an army of Space Super Heroes driving Tonka toy vehicles.


 
   
Made in it
Gargantuan Gargant




Italy

We can't know if removing SM will get GW bankrupt, it might even be the exact opposite. Lots of those who buy marines are hobbists/gamers that want to get big deals thanks to starter sets or constantly supported armies that receive new releases pretty often.

Maybe if a xeno, chaos or brand new faction becomes the new GW posterboys, while SM got removed, people will buy it even more than marines. And all those who only have marines are now in the need of buying a whole new army . Big win for GW .


 
   
 
Forum Index » 40K General Discussion
Go to: