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Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut






Pretty sure "Zog" is an ork curse/swear word. "What the Zog?", "Zog off".

The logical replacement for "Gawd Dang" would be "Emperor be damned!", followed by the sound of an inquisitor shooting the offender.


As for why, it's so kids can buy the models. No need to cut out most of their sales (kids saying "I want it", followed by them never playing the game again, much to the now poorer parent's dismay) for the sake of making the grim dark horror of the 41st millennium seem more realistic by including swear words.

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Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut






As noted, age rating bodies tend to come down harder on sex/swearing than they do with violence, particularly fantasy violence (Star Wars is a PG even though an entire plant is murdered and our protagonist's parents burnt to death. If, on finding their bodies, Luke had dropped an 'F' bomb I suspect it would jump to a 15/18).

The joke is always that children can watch a woman being stabbed through the chest and its no big deal, but showing someone lovingly kissing a breast is not OK for some reason...

(At least in the UK/USA; I think our European neighbours are a little more sensible with this stuff).

So its not a 'Black Library' thing as much as an Anglo-culture thing.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/06/09 09:25:17


 
   
Made in de
Terrifying Doombull






Nuremberg

Yeah it's just that prudish approach to sex and swearing that is common in the US and to a lesser extent in the UK (certainly the UK is much more prudish about swearing than Ireland in my experience).

It is pretty funny when you compare the rest of the material involving soul devouring demons and galactic genocide but hey, that's culture for ya.

   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

One thing to consider is behaviour and influences.

Fantasy characters gutting and murdering each other is behaviour so far outside of anything normal people would engage in, its very easy for it to be a separate thing mentally. You might get kids acting it out during play with toys or such, but they aren't going to suddenly flay the skin off their friend when they recreate the attack of flayed ones on a space marine bunker.


However searing is language and its a more grey area. There's more chance of them picking up and copy-catting the words in their general use.

Which is part why I think ratings boards come down harder on such language. It's something that can cause a real world influence and shift in how a person conducts themselves. We also, as a society, generally see casual swearing as a lesser thing; people who casually swear can be looked down upon, especially in serious (eg business) situations. In the end swearing is used as a harsh insult, a verbal violent outburst. Yes it gets used for other things and many of the words shift in meaning depending heavily on context. However in a general sense they are insults, they are "verbally violent and harsh" and its a level of conversation that people generally don't like; hence why society at large generally looks down upon it

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/09 09:28:45


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Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut






 Da Boss wrote:
It is pretty funny when you compare the rest of the material involving soul devouring demons and galactic genocide but hey, that's culture for ya.


I suppose the argument is children are unlikely to devour the souls of their classmates or carry out the extermination of a planet, but might start dropping 'F' bombs.

But yes, its bizarre.



This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/09 09:30:23


 
   
Made in gb
Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






Language changes.

Going back to medieval, swearing included Zounds, Odds Bodkins etc.

They’re also speaking High or Low Gothic, not English.

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Made in de
Contagious Dreadnought of Nurgle




 Denny wrote:
As noted, age rating bodies tend to come down harder on sex/swearing than they do with violence, particularly fantasy violence (Star Wars is a PG even though an entire plant is murdered and our protagonist's parents burnt to death. If, on finding their bodies, Luke had dropped an 'F' bomb I suspect it would jump to a 15/18).

The joke is always that children can watch a woman being stabbed through the chest and its no big deal, but showing someone lovingly kissing a breast is not OK for some reason...

(At least in the UK/USA; I think our European neighbours are a little more sensible with this stuff).

So its not a 'Black Library' thing as much as an Anglo-culture thing.


Indeed. At least in germany it's the other way round: Violence is censored, sometimes so much that movies and games are put on the index and forbidden (Though I think that practice has become pretty rare in the last 20 years).
Naked bodies? Swearing? Turn on TV and you get it all from at least 3pm on
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





Personally I enjoy “fake swears” in fiction. I find it immersive, and it is by no means a 40K thing, and Battlestar Galactica using “frak” is in keeping with a long tradition in science fiction. Early examples off the top of my head are “tanj” in Larry Niven’s work (meaning “there ain’t no justice” IIRC) and A Clockwork Orange famously had a whole host of invented slang terms, my droogs. I can’t remember if it included invented swears.

Standard English swears wouldn’t make a lot of sense in 40K, “goddammit” is a bit odd in a a culture that isn’t based on Abrahamic religions. Swearing by “the throne” makes more sense.

And things like “gak” and “feth” were deliberately used to identify different cultures having different slang and swears as mentioned earlier.

40K also used made up terms for lots of other stuff that have perfectly good words already- vox instead of radio etc. Why should swearing be any different.

Also there’s the marketability of material with swears to younger audiences to consider.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/09 10:16:35


 
   
Made in fr
Stalwart Tribune





Also, you can have a lot more fun with silly, creative swearing than actual curse words. Those end up being limited, since they're almost always references to genitals or bodily byproducts.

That's captain Haddock's whole schtick for example.
   
Made in us
Da Head Honcho Boss Grot




New Jersey, State of Perfection

I think thats lost on most of us non-Francophone types here.

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Ma55ter_fett wrote:It reads like the ramblings of a Nigerian lobotomized Shakespeare typed into a cellphone with a very aggressive autocomplete function.
 
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Moustache-twirling Princeps





Gone-to-ground in the craters of Coventry

Many translated versions are available

https://tintin.fandom.com/wiki/List_of_Captain_Haddock%27s_Curses

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/09 13:17:08


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Made in us
Pulsating Possessed Space Marine of Slaanesh




As has been discussed, in the 41st millennium swear words likely will have changed.

However, to proclaim that swear words make for bad writing is discounting the fact that swear words absolutely belong in combat. Scientists even have proven that swear words are words of power; they have been recorded increasing grip strength and pain tolerance. The likes of Vonnegut and Heller were excellent writers that very skillfully used swear words, nudity and other vulgarities to excellent effect, as these authors are legendary.

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Made in fr
Stalwart Tribune





chaos0xomega wrote:
I think thats lost on most of us non-Francophone types here.
As Skinnereal has pointed out, there's a whole list available in English. But if you're curious about this particular set it's: platypus, a flowery term for "drunkard," bashi-bazouk, anthropophage, cercopithecus, schizophreniac and Jocrisse is apparently a stock buffoon character from old-timey theater. And Tintin points out that whoever the captain is yelling at is too far to hear him.

macluvin wrote:
As has been discussed, in the 41st millennium swear words likely will have changed.

However, to proclaim that swear words make for bad writing is discounting the fact that swear words absolutely belong in combat. Scientists even have proven that swear words are words of power; they have been recorded increasing grip strength and pain tolerance. The likes of Vonnegut and Heller were excellent writers that very skillfully used swear words, nudity and other vulgarities to excellent effect, as these authors are legendary.

It's true that some swearing can be used to good effect. A few well placed words can signify that something big is happening and the tone has changed. It can make the characters feel more real since real people do swear. A certain choice of swear words can tell the audience things about certain characters, like that they're old fashioned when they say "gadzooks" or that they're German when they say "Scheisse," or that they're from the 41st millenium when they say "feth"... Or just that they're rude because they're swearing all the time but that can get old quick.

Like every storytelling tool, it can be used poorly and the problem with this one is how easy it is to overdo. Seriously, Wikipedia has a long list of movies that use the word "feth" more than 150 times. At that point what does that accomplish? Is it just writers venting out their frustrations or what?
   
Made in fi
Purposeful Hammerhead Pilot






I see you are confused. The answer is really simple.

GW, in their ultimate wisdom have elected to substitute common swear words with redundant adjectives. No more will anyone need to read unnecessary 500 feth -based sentences, what you get instead is 500 unnecessary adjectives, with more adjectives, you get an adjective, and you get an adjective, we all get adjectives..

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/06/10 18:00:39


 
   
Made in us
Courageous Space Marine Captain





SoCal

What if in M41 “blood” and “wolf” are actually swear words?

   
Made in gb
Executing Exarch






They seem to substitute the F word for Fug on occasions in HH BL novels. Maybe its the writers quiet little rebellion?

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AngryAngel80 wrote:
I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "


 Eonfuzz wrote:


I would much rather everyone have a half ass than no ass.


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Made in us
Terminator with Assault Cannon




San Jose, CA

In English at least (F)or (U)nlawful (C)arnal (K)nowledge is an adjective, noun, pronoun, adverb and verb...it is also an album by Van Halen!
For all we know High Gothic is Greek/Latin/whatever and everyone else is just speaking Esperanto.

Plenty of room to utilize it in common M41 parlance.
Mother F♡(☆er is kinda universal. It even works on Tyranids, less so on Orks tho
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





I thought you might find it interesting that the BBFC (they make the rules in the UK) are quite clear in their website what words might appear at different age classification

I’m not sure if I can post the words here but in the uk you can have the F and T word in a 12 and in a PG you can have the S word.

It’s about context apparently.

It might also be worth thinking about the fact that having your characters express themselves through swearing might be realistic but isn’t going to win you any accolades as an author.
   
Made in gb
[MOD]
Villanous Scum








I am afraid I am going to have to lock this up, the arguments posited are all pretty valid but you are all aware that we have a no swearing policy here and the creative ways of trying to get around breaks both the spirit and letter of that.

On parle toujours mal quand on n'a rien à dire. 
   
 
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