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Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut




Probably not. If they are not conceptually interesting, people can continue to do dwarf conversions as counts-as-Marines or counts-as-Imperial-Guard or whatever.

There're also more recent Squat/space-dwarf models for Necromunda. Maybe a Kill Team of them with 40K rules as part of Inquisition or so would be fun. Or as a datasheet for Tau or maybe Guard.

But as an entire army / miniature range, complete with sub-factions, etc.. I don't think that particular meme would have enough legs.
   
Made in gb
Frenzied Berserker Terminator




Southampton, UK

Wyldhunt wrote:

Custodes were babysitting, necrons were sleeping, and the tau were playing catch-up to get big and advanced enough to play with the big kids. But why haven't the squats been around? I'm certain it's possible to come up with a perfectly good explanation; I'm just not confident that we'd get something good instead of another awkward fit like primaris and their lore. So while I'd welcome a well-executed squats reintroduction, I also hope no one at GW is in the mood to try.


They could be fleet-based. After their home-world was munched by the tyranids, some managed to evacuate and have since been bumming around the far end of the galaxy. Outside of imperial space, so as far as the Imperium is concerned they were all dead. They have been out doing suitably dwarfy things, mining asteroids and salvaging space hulks and so on. All the while, nurturing their grudge against the Imperium that failed to protect them. And now they're back, with a huge fleet of salvaged archaeo-tech and a score to settle...
   
Made in no
Huge Bone Giant





Bergen

You could always say they jumped their civilization forward in time. Perhaps they also lost a war to the old once and jumped forward some.... I don't know. A very long way into the future. Spheres of battle fleets appearing randomly around the galaxy.

Dwarves are old after all. They would not even know about Necrons, or the war in heaven. They where bossy fighting their own war long before that.

   
Made in us
Shas'ui with Bonding Knife






Sure! Bring them on. I think many illustrations of Squat mercenaries in Rogue Trader look badass. It's that ZZ Top meets biker guy meets bounty hunter reality show aesthetic, its a flavour of OTT machismo we dont have anymore in modern 40K. Ticks all the boxes for my sensibilities.

I don't much care for the direction modern 40K has taken in general. Not enough satire and too much grimderp. Every time they have reintroduced old stuff such as GSC has been a positive thing for me. Even now, the only new release I'm impatiently waiting for is the upcoming HH box, because Beakies will always and forever trump any Primaris in my book.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/12/02 10:40:12


 
   
Made in gb
Focused Dark Angels Land Raider Pilot



Wrexham, North Wales

Yep. Bring 'em back. Bikes and trikes. Living Ancestors with Force Dome psychic powers. 10 man squads all with a heavy bolter. Exo-armour. Exo-armour. on bikes! Mole mortars and Thudd guns.

I remember the "Dwarves on bikes? What were we thinking!" article. Well, you were thinking "this is great!". And you were right.
   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut





IMO the community has bought into this line of conventional wisdom that squats just wouldn't work, when it's pretty obvious that there's nothing intrinsically unusable about a space dwarf, than there is a space ork, or space knight, or space undead.

If a cirque du soleil clown army is in keeping with the 40k aesthetic, it's pretty clear than CONTEXT is all you need for a successful army.

   
Made in de
Dakka Veteran





Hard to say. For me they'd have to be stylized to the point where they look suitably alien or with design cues that develop them beyond "biker dwarves in space". I'd probably prefer them to be Demiurge instead, with a fresh set of aesthetics, lore and units.
   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut



Bamberg / Erlangen

If the design would be akin to the Necromunda Squats, then no. Not different enough from a regular fantasy dwarf for me.

With a more alien design it would work.

Imperial Guard Space Marines
 
   
Made in no
Huge Bone Giant





Bergen

Start with an anesthetic. Visually and culturally. I stil like my suggested jumping forward in time some zillion years after loosing to the old once. Visually very ornate weapons, while stil having weapons that spew out diesel fumes.

Suggest a general statline for basic troop. A weapon profile for their main weapons.

Come up with 3 HQ, 2 troops, 3 fast attack, 3 elite (one of them an elite version of the troop.) 3 heavy support. 1 transport, 1 flyer.

Then do a test to see if they mechanically unique enough.

Have them bee the custodies or orks? T5, but with really good equipment. Still bs5+? Could be fun. High use of flamers to compensate for bad BS. Very good chainfist axes? Loads of 2+ Armour saves. Lots of bikes to compensate for a move of 5. Have transports be capped at 5 units. Have minimum squads be 4.

Unique so far.

   
Made in gb
Battlefield Tourist





On an Express Elevator to Hell!!

Not sure if this is true, but I had heard that one of the senior GW staff/designers that previously despised Squats (I'm not sure whom), and had said Squats would only return over his dead body, has now left. This is why you have a few of them sneaking back in to things like Necromunda, which at one time absolutely would not have happened.

Is anyone in a position to verify my questionable statement?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I'm... not sure.

On one hand, the not-Squats are one of the few things Mantic has done that I quite like, so I'd be interested to see how GW could do "proper" Squats.

I also think their work with the Skydorfs in AoS is pretty cool, even if I don't like the flying boats (a bit too chibi for me). The infantry are great. The less said about their updated Slayers, the Fyrslyrys, the better...

So I think there's a really interesting basis for Squats reemerging in the post-rift 40k galaxy. Even have the Indomitus Crusade find their way to the fallen Squat Homeworlds, so there's some semblance of the old allegiances, but they're still not the Imperium whilst at the same time not being Xenos either.

And I think the potential for interactions/integration with the Cult Mechanicus is fascinating, and some Squats reconnect with Mars, whereas others wish to keep their technology to themselves and their isolationist/survivalist ways.

But really I'd trade it all for a 40k scale plastic Thunderhawk.


I feel the same way. The Mantic Forge Fathers (dwarves in space) are great, you can imagine what weird, wacky (certainly big!) war machines GW could come up with these days if the desire was there.

Certainly a lot of the technical restrictions that limited the Squats back in the early 90s to biker dwarves no longer exist - Jervis Johnson always maintained Epic was a much better environment for them (and they were/still are really popular in that setting) because it allowed the big war machines to be used.

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Made in us
Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot





I'd prefer to see Demiurg, because the game doesn't need more Imperial bloat. I'd be content with a, "they're still fiercely independent and clashes with Imperial worlds aren't unheard of" but I figure that part of the lore willl be handwaved as "Primaris are SO COOL they'd never risk harming Imperials and want to ally with Guilliman now so much!"

That said, I genuinely do like the Kharadrons so I would be interested in seeing what GW do with Space Dwarfs.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





I can see them being a big hit as a new gang in Necromunda.

Casual gaming, mostly solo-coop these days.

 
   
Made in ie
Been Around the Block



Dublin, Ireland

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
I think when GW gets around to bring them back they won't look anything like the old squats. GW would try to differentiate them from Guard, Marines and Sisters and also to make it hard to use any of the many third party miniatures for them that popped up recently.


They're already back. There are a couple knocking about in Necromunda. Whether or not those are reflective of a renewed range is another thing!
   
Made in de
Powerful Ushbati






I wouldn't mind getting Squats back. Probably not for me unless the models turn out really shiny, but they've been a thing in the past and still have their fans. Who am I to deny them new models?

Wyldhunt wrote:
I mean, I don't really want to yuck your yum. I feel like one abhuman psyker summoning an entire army big enough to participate on the usual 40k scale has some significant implications for the setting as well as some thematic overlap with things like warp ghosts, but sure. You could do that or any number of other things. The tricky part is explaining why, if they have the ability to participate on a galactic stage, they seemingly haven't done so for quite some time.

Custodes were babysitting, necrons were sleeping, and the tau were playing catch-up to get big and advanced enough to play with the big kids. But why haven't the squats been around? I'm certain it's possible to come up with a perfectly good explanation; I'm just not confident that we'd get something good instead of another awkward fit like primaris and their lore. So while I'd welcome a well-executed squats reintroduction, I also hope no one at GW is in the mood to try.


Does GW still pursue the blackstone storyline? Squats would easily fit in there. They were happily isolationist, then the rift engulfed their homeworlds and because they realized they can't win that fight on the long run, they reached out, heard from various sources like Rogue Traders that the Mechanicus is really interested in obtaining blackstone to rein in the rift. Squats want the stuff as well, send out fleets to scour the galaxy for it and try to bring it back to calm the warp around their homeworlds so they can go back to being happily isolationist.

It uses fluff that's already in place, so there's no need to introduce new elements that may not mesh, and it immediately brings them in conflict with Necrons, Chaos and the Imperium for fighting over the same resource. That should suffice why they're all over the galaxy now, fighting all sorts of enemies.

Nehekhara lives! Sort of!
Why is the rum always gone? 
   
Made in gb
Lit By the Flames of Prospero






As Necromunda hangers on the Squats work because they have the space to make each one unique and characterful.
As an army? Nah. There isn't a niche I can see them filling that isn't already take by Space Marines, Admech and Guard. If there needs to be a new army does it have to be a fantasy port?
   
Made in de
Terrifying Doombull






Nuremberg

I mean, a niche being filled never stopped GW before! But as a big space dwarf fan, I don't really need GW to do anything. Mantic's minis are cool and affordable and I can play them in similar games easily.

I can see the argument that 40K is super bloated by now, but I do wonder if that argument could not also apply to Ad Mech, Genestealer Cults and Custodes as forces? I think having those models available is better, but I'm not really engaged with game balance at all.

   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Squats are all the firstborn Space Marines we made along the way.
   
Made in us
Dive-Bombin' Fighta-Bomba Pilot






I mean from a competitive standpoint if its just short space marines on the same bases with the same rules and points you can mroe easily hide the short models behind terrain to be out of LOS... but no that everybody and thier brother has ignore LOS it would not be as big of an advantage as years past.

10000 points 7000
6000
5000
5000
2000
 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




I'm having flashbacks to a thread on Dakka which I think was exactly the same about Sisters before their new releases.

At the end of the day if the models are good and the rules are interesting, why not?
   
Made in es
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain




Vigo. Spain.

If Mantic was capable of doing cool space dwarfs I trust GW to do a cool faction.

As much as people hate them, thats something they have never failed to deliver, even the ones I like less like modern ones as lumineth or Ossiarchs I find at least interesting or having cool units that I like.

 Crimson Devil wrote:

Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.

ERJAK wrote:
Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.

 
   
Made in us
Scarred Ultramarine Tyrannic War Veteran






No. No one wants them.

And I believe anyone who says they do want them / would buy them is being disingenuous.
   
Made in us
Warp-Screaming Noise Marine




 oni wrote:
No. No one wants them.

And I believe anyone who says they do want them / would buy them is being disingenuous.


Yo mind is made the feth up, no matter what other people say XD 2 pages of people saying "Yeah I want squats" to "I would like squats if they were done right" and the occasional "they cancelled them for a reason"

Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. -Kurt Vonnegut 
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Moustache-twirling Princeps





Gone-to-ground in the craters of Coventry

 oni wrote:
No. No one wants them.

And I believe anyone who says they do want them / would buy them is being disingenuous.
If you say so...

I promised here that I would buy digital codexes before they were a thing, and I have bought all 3 versions of the same codexes since.
You keep your delusional view of other people's personal convictions....

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/12/02 16:30:47


4000 pts - 4000 pts - Harlies: 1000 pts - 1000 ptsDS:70+S+G++MB+IPw40k86/f+D++A++/cWD64R+T(T)DM+
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"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing." - George Bernard Shaw (probably)
Clubs around Coventry, UK 
   
Made in us
Lead-Footed Trukkboy Driver





I just don’t know what design space they’d fill, cause with how orks and guard have fleshed out, they don’t really have a spot imo.

"Us Blood Axes hav lernt' a lot from da humies. How best ta kill 'em, fer example."
— Korporal Snagbrat of the Dreadblade Kommandos 
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut





Wyldhunt wrote:
 Sim-Life wrote:
Why do they need a niche? GW stopped worrying about faction identity beyond aesthetics ages ago. Just slap a bunch of army wide rules that add -/+1 to a different stat every turn and yoy're good to go.

I feel like armies lacking unique playstyles is a solvable problem, but each faction we throw into the mix makes it that much harder to solve. Especially if that faction has a lot of overlap with others.



I don't want to get off topic- but I've got to hard disagree with Sim's piece of this quote. I think 9th has done more for faction identity than other edition in the history of the game. With every faction having an ability, WL trait, relic and strat for each of its subfactions, plus campaign based story arc content for the faction as a whole via Crusade, there has never been and edition where GW has tried so hard to make factions unique. Obviously, it is true that there are so many possible rules, and so yes, some abilities from one faction may be similar to abilities from other factions; the uniqueness of the faction lies in the total collection of those abilities.

I do agree with Wyldhunt though, whose viewpoint, while sharing some of Sims concerns, is more nuanced, and hence easier to get behind.

Either way, it's a tangent- I don't want to dwell... I'm not gonna change Sim's mind and he's not got gonna change my mind, so I bring it up only to express the counternarrative so that other readers can see a spectrum of opinions.

Back to Squats:

Crispy78 wrote:


They could be fleet-based. After their home-world was munched by the tyranids, some managed to evacuate and have since been bumming around the far end of the galaxy. Outside of imperial space, so as far as the Imperium is concerned they were all dead.


I really like this; there's even a sort of precedent for it- the Blackstone Fortress game was set so far out on the galactic western fringe that it was barely within Imperial territory. Yet various Imperial forces DID make it that far out, and perhaps this provides a credible story hook for re-contacting the lost squat civilization.

I'm not sure I want them to go all grudge match vs. the Imperium... Though it's certainly fair to say that we do have enough Imperial factions as-is.

Perhaps a way forward for them is to be designed as a Merc faction, with subfaction identities being informed by which other factions that particular group of squats tends to work for/ with.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/12/02 16:36:31


 
   
Made in us
Terminator with Assault Cannon




San Jose, CA

Yes, yes, yes, yes and more yes!

I quit 40k for 25yrs cuz my favorite army was, well Squatted.

I love the necromunda squats & Kharadrons(currently converting some into 40k Squats) have a very cool look to them and just need weapon/gear swaps to make them fit 40k.
   
Made in de
Terrifying Doombull






Nuremberg

Oni might have a point that people who want squats would have already bought the mantic or wargames factory or hasslefree alternatives, but on the other hand imperial guard and space marine alternatives don't stop people buying the GW originals.

But saying no one wants them and the people who say they do are liars is skirting rule 1 I'd say. I've bought an entire army of them from Mantic.

   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut





Voss wrote:
It would honestly depend what they did with them

I don't have any but the original plastics and a mole mortar, but it would really depend.

If they did 'short Guardsmen, but with trikes and terminators' again, then no. But if they took a chance and did something a little more interesting than 'T4 army, but with lasguns and flak armor,' it could be compelling and functional.


GW is again too late for that. AoW Planetfall introduced Russian space dwarves called Dvar. That´s how it is done.

And nope, I wouldn´t buy them. Why? As I said way too late to start another faction.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





If they made them like the old ones, I wouldn’t go near them. Yuck.

I get my sci fi dwarf kicks with kharadron overlords

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/12/02 17:30:10


 
   
Made in gb
Battlefield Tourist





On an Express Elevator to Hell!!

You definitely have a lot less people being angrily opposed to them now than, say five years ago had that question been posted then.

I think it's the case that they were 'in fashion' such a long time ago, then definitely out of fashion for a while (GW banning their mention on their forums at one point lol), and now coming back around again

 Da Boss wrote:
Oni might have a point that people who want squats would have already bought the mantic or wargames factory or hasslefree alternatives, but on the other hand imperial guard and space marine alternatives don't stop people buying the GW originals.

But saying no one wants them and the people who say they do are liars is skirting rule 1 I'd say. I've bought an entire army of them from Mantic.


Absolutely.

They are certainly pretty popular in the Epic community, with people either using the originals or new proxy releases from the likes of Onslaught Miniatures.

Epic 30K&40K! A new players guide, contributors welcome https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/751316.page
Small but perfectly formed! A Great Crusade Epic 6mm project: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/694411.page
 
   
 
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