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I answered 1. My game experience is not diminished by gray plastic, but a nice paint job is always a bonus.

Not an attack: I wonder if people who are bothered by gray plastic might lean towards aphantasia or at least less vivid imaginations? If my opponent sticks gray marines in front of me and says they're salamanders, I'm suddenly seeing them in green armor, red eyes, and a volcanic background wherever they go. Having actual paint on the models is nice, but it rarely beats the images and sound effects I'm mentally overlaying on top of their minis.

I like painting, but it's more of a bonus after the lore and gameplay. You don't need paint on models to play the game or tell a story. So when people insist on painted models, it kind of rubs me the wrong way. Like, did you just want to look at paint jobs, my friend? Go google some. They'll almost certainly look better than any paint job I'm capable of.

Wyldhunt wrote:
I answered 1. My game experience is not diminished by gray plastic, but a nice paint job is always a bonus.

Not an attack: I wonder if people who are bothered by gray plastic might lean towards aphantasia or at least less vivid imaginations? If my opponent sticks gray marines in front of me and says they're salamanders, I'm suddenly seeing them in green armor, red eyes, and a volcanic background wherever they go. Having actual paint on the models is nice, but it rarely beats the images and sound effects I'm mentally overlaying on top of their minis.

I like painting, but it's more of a bonus after the lore and gameplay. You don't need paint on models to play the game or tell a story. So when people insist on painted models, it kind of rubs me the wrong way. Like, did you just want to look at paint jobs, my friend? Go google some. They'll almost certainly look better than any paint job I'm capable of.

But at that point why use models at all? If your imagination is better than the models why not save a bunch of money and play the game with blank bases and cardboard boxes for vehicles?

CadianSgtBob wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Greyicus Plasticus is the tribe of my people. I'm not expecting the new nid player to have all 150 of his extremely samey models all painted, nor would I care if he did. I'm just there to throw click clacks and make pew pew noises as I move my little men around.

So why not play a better game, if the models are nothing but game tokens to be treated with contempt? Why buy GW models at all when you can use cardboard boxes and poker chips for everything?

Why don't you play a different game if all you do is tell everyone else how to play and get seriously butt sore at the way they play?

And I play maybe one game a month, if that. I'm hardly a model for great gamer. But if someone has the models and needs an opponent, I'll be happy to throw math rocks and drink beer with a new possible friend.

CadianSgtBob wrote:

Wyldhunt wrote:
I answered 1. My game experience is not diminished by gray plastic, but a nice paint job is always a bonus.

Not an attack: I wonder if people who are bothered by gray plastic might lean towards aphantasia or at least less vivid imaginations? If my opponent sticks gray marines in front of me and says they're salamanders, I'm suddenly seeing them in green armor, red eyes, and a volcanic background wherever they go. Having actual paint on the models is nice, but it rarely beats the images and sound effects I'm mentally overlaying on top of their minis.

I like painting, but it's more of a bonus after the lore and gameplay. You don't need paint on models to play the game or tell a story. So when people insist on painted models, it kind of rubs me the wrong way. Like, did you just want to look at paint jobs, my friend? Go google some. They'll almost certainly look better than any paint job I'm capable of.

But at that point why use models at all? If your imagination is better than the models why not save a bunch of money and play the game with blank bases and cardboard boxes for vehicles?

When I first got into GW games, I was playing their LoTR skirmish game with poker chips for goblins. Other armies in my friend group included playing cards as Rohirim cavalry, a shoe for a dragon, and small decorative pumpkins as trolls. I really don't mind playing the game with affordable stand-ins at all so long as it's clear what represents what. I buy and paint the models because while they aren't essential to the gaming or lore aspects of the hobby, they look cool and I enjoy painting them (poorly). It's just that my ability to enjoy the game side of the hobby doesn't hinge on a paint job. Plus, it's easier to find pickup games at the FLGS when I don't have to explain to my opponent which poker chips are fire dragons.

CadianSgtBob wrote:

Wyldhunt wrote:
I answered 1. My game experience is not diminished by gray plastic, but a nice paint job is always a bonus.

Not an attack: I wonder if people who are bothered by gray plastic might lean towards aphantasia or at least less vivid imaginations? If my opponent sticks gray marines in front of me and says they're salamanders, I'm suddenly seeing them in green armor, red eyes, and a volcanic background wherever they go. Having actual paint on the models is nice, but it rarely beats the images and sound effects I'm mentally overlaying on top of their minis.

I like painting, but it's more of a bonus after the lore and gameplay. You don't need paint on models to play the game or tell a story. So when people insist on painted models, it kind of rubs me the wrong way. Like, did you just want to look at paint jobs, my friend? Go google some. They'll almost certainly look better than any paint job I'm capable of.

But at that point why use models at all? If your imagination is better than the models why not save a bunch of money and play the game with blank bases and cardboard boxes for vehicles?

By that logic, art is pointless, so why bother with it? Same with storytelling, or anything else we do.

CadianSgtBob wrote:

DeathKorp_Rider wrote:
I don’t paint my army so I don’t expect anyone else to. If someone wants to get uptight about it better they find someone who shares their extraordinary standards.

Boo. You could at least try, even slow progress is better than nothing.

Edit: oh, you're that guy from reddit posting thousands of dollars of rare DKoK stuff and bragging about how much money you can spend without ever bothering to paint any of it. It's called a pile of shame for a reason, you know.

holy gak dude.... can you like, get the feth out of this forum with your nonstop toxicity in every single thread you take part of?



OT: i try to at least be constantly making progress on my armies and i'll at the very least have my armies quickly basecoated

Enough to get 10 points.

CadianSgtBob wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
PS: Don't expect of require people to engage in parts of the hobby they don't enjoy.

Why are you so incapable of accepting that I will not play a game against people like you? Why do you have to come in here and complain about the mere fact that I dared to post an opinion about how I enjoy the game in a way that you don't like?

Haha. I would happily not play against you for merely your posting style.

My ideal match up is fully painted on both sides. However, I myself have missed deadlines before game night and had that one model that I was salivating to run, so in comes stealth primed X.


Since starting up our classichammer groups I've been more reticent with only running painted stuff. I have a game tomorrow with my Dark Elves vs. my brother's Dwarfs and I'll be shocked if he manages to show up with unpainted anything.

In b4 the inevitable lock, with everyone busy sniping at each other about being paint snobs and all that.

I used to play with unpainted models because that was what I had; I just hadn't gotten around to painting all my gak yet. Nowadays it's definitely to the point that I'll only use unpainted stuff if it's something I'm desperate to try out for a game and just can't possibly have it painted in time.

As for what my opponent brings, I'm down for whatever. I just want to play games and have a good time, and fully understand if some people don't like to paint or haven't found time for it (it can take a while depending on the army). So I voted 0 on the poll.

If this makes me a gray plastic apologist or white knight or whatever, make the most of it I guess. Like I said, I expect this thread to die a fiery death by the fury of the mods soon enough anyways.

 Blndmage wrote:
By that logic, art is pointless, so why bother with it? Same with storytelling, or anything else we do.

Um, what? You have that "logic" completely backwards. I'm arguing that if you're dismissive of the value of art you might as well save money and not have art at all. If you, like me, appreciate the value of art then of course it isn't pointless.


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Wyldhunt wrote:
When I first got into GW games, I was playing their LoTR skirmish game with poker chips for goblins. Other armies in my friend group included playing cards as Rohirim cavalry, a shoe for a dragon, and small decorative pumpkins as trolls. I really don't mind playing the game with affordable stand-ins at all so long as it's clear what represents what. I buy and paint the models because while they aren't essential to the gaming or lore aspects of the hobby, they look cool and I enjoy painting them (poorly). It's just that my ability to enjoy the game side of the hobby doesn't hinge on a paint job. Plus, it's easier to find pickup games at the FLGS when I don't have to explain to my opponent which poker chips are fire dragons.

Fair! I don't see the appeal, but I admit you're at least consistent if you're fine with playing with poker chips and playing cards.

The way I see it, two lovingly painted armies makes the game more fun, but I've had gakky games against beautiful painted armies and amazingly friendly games against grey plastic, so I have zero preference.

CadianSgtBob wrote:

Wyldhunt wrote:
I answered 1. My game experience is not diminished by gray plastic, but a nice paint job is always a bonus.

Not an attack: I wonder if people who are bothered by gray plastic might lean towards aphantasia or at least less vivid imaginations? If my opponent sticks gray marines in front of me and says they're salamanders, I'm suddenly seeing them in green armor, red eyes, and a volcanic background wherever they go. Having actual paint on the models is nice, but it rarely beats the images and sound effects I'm mentally overlaying on top of their minis.

I like painting, but it's more of a bonus after the lore and gameplay. You don't need paint on models to play the game or tell a story. So when people insist on painted models, it kind of rubs me the wrong way. Like, did you just want to look at paint jobs, my friend? Go google some. They'll almost certainly look better than any paint job I'm capable of.

But at that point why use models at all? If your imagination is better than the models why not save a bunch of money and play the game with blank bases and cardboard boxes for vehicles?

Well I personally would do that but alas, the game uses real LOS so chips are not an acceptable substitute for models. I personally selected 0 because I heavily dislike painting my models, it's just not something I enjoy doing. I also get into something I call, for lack of a better term, "gaming mindset" whenever the game starts at which point I no longer notice how well models are painted, if at all, for as long as the game lasts. Since all I'm focused on is winning the game. I long ago stopped buying/appreciating "skins" in video games for the same reason. I do appreciate the care and love others put into making their models look nice, but once the game starts all that goes out of the window and I barely notice it compared to my own gray horde. Seeing as I prefer the gaming and lore aspect of the hobby the most, painting my own models is not something I care about, nor do i care much for the painted or not status of my opponents army.

CadianSgtBob wrote:

Hecaton wrote:
Wild. Seems pretty unreasonable. Everyone I know is cool with playing with people while they get their army painted.

If you are a genuine newbie painting your first army and you are clearly making progress on it maybe we can make an exception temporarily. And I'll be happy to play a 500 point game (or even a kill team game with a single squad!) with fully painted armies if someone can't manage a full 2000 point standard game yet. But TBH that's not the case the vast majority of the time, it's people who have been in the game for years and refuse to ever paint anything. Those people are not welcome in my games.

Eh, that seems so unnecessarily judgmental. As long as someone's making gradual progress I appreciate it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

CadianSgtBob wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
PS: Don't expect of require people to engage in parts of the hobby they don't enjoy.

Why are you so incapable of accepting that I will not play a game against people like you? Why do you have to come in here and complain about the mere fact that I dared to post an opinion about how I enjoy the game in a way that you don't like?

Well I'm guessing it's mostly that some of your other opinions have little relation to reality.

While I enjoy building and painting the models rather than playing I don't mind playing against the grey masses, I understand not everyone has the time or patience to paint up whole armies of toy soldiers. People that won't play a game because of a single grey mini need to relax and enjoy the game for what it is, a hobby not life and death.

 Rolsheen wrote:
People that won't play a game because of a single grey mini need to relax and enjoy the game for what it is, a hobby not life and death.

Why should I play a game I don't enjoy? I don't owe you a game, if you don't want to paint your models you can play with someone else.

I voted 5. My own models have to be painted for me to bring them (though I'm a little lazy on basing them), but I usually don't expect the same from my opponent. If it's a narrative mission or a campaign game or a small game it's nice to have, but if it's just the usual 2000 points game or a tournament it's not that important how the models of my opponent look. And sometimes my own models will run around with base colors I put on the evening before .

The game is immersive for many and I think the look of an army is part of that immersion.

I wouldn’t like to regularly play against someone who flat out doesn’t paint anything but I’d someone adds some WIP models to a painted army that’s cool.

I think there are so many companies doing speed paints, like contrast, that it’s not hard to prime some models and coat them in a single colour. Even that’s better than nothing.

But I’m way more into the painting than the playing

CadianSgtBob wrote:

 Rolsheen wrote:
People that won't play a game because of a single grey mini need to relax and enjoy the game for what it is, a hobby not life and death.

Why should I play a game I don't enjoy? I don't owe you a game, if you don't want to paint your models you can play with someone else.

You don't enjoy the game? Why are you playing then? Why are you so bent out of shape about other people enjoying the game.

 Rolsheen wrote:
You don't enjoy the game? Why are you playing then? Why are you so bent out of shape about other people enjoying the game.

I don't enjoy games with unpainted models. But apparently I need to relax and give people the games they're entitled to have, regardless of my own enjoyment.

CadianSgtBob wrote:

Um, what? You have that "logic" completely backwards. I'm arguing that if you're dismissive of the value of art you might as well save money and not have art at all. If you, like me, appreciate the value of art then of course it isn't pointless.

You appear to be labouring under something close to a child's definition of "art" (ie. "whatever we did today during art class, mum!").

Models painted under duress, out of a grudging sense of duty or social obligation, do not constitute art. Performing the physical action of painting a miniature does not ensure the production of art, any more than painting a fence would.

It is also entirely possible and reasonable to appreciate an unpainted sculpture as an art object.

Since you have an inexhaustible well of grievance with the ways other people want to play the game and maintain their miniature collections don't you think you'd be better off finding another game or hobby? Miniature wargaming has a social element and benefits from a certain baseline capacity for bonhomie, which doesn't fit your needs or desires, so I think you might find more enjoyment focusing your time and money on other types of enrichment.

 Altruizine wrote:
Models painted under duress, out of a grudging sense of duty or social obligation, do not constitute art.

And? That has nothing to do with my response or the original comment about valuing art/storytelling/etc.

Since you have an inexhaustible well of grievance with the ways other people want to play the game and maintain their miniature collections don't you think you'd be better off finding another game or hobby? Miniature wargaming has a social element and benefits from a certain baseline capacity for bonhomie, which doesn't fit your needs or desires, so I think you might find more enjoyment focusing your time and money on other types of enrichment.

Why would I find another hobby when I have lots of fun playing games with fully painted armies on both sides? Are you so unable to cope with the possibility that I would refuse to play a game with you that the only resolution you can imagine is convincing me to quit the hobby entirely? Why does it bother you so much that some of us have higher standards?

CadianSgtBob wrote:

 Rolsheen wrote:
You don't enjoy the game? Why are you playing then? Why are you so bent out of shape about other people enjoying the game.

I don't enjoy games with unpainted models. But apparently I need to relax and give people the games they're entitled to have, regardless of my own enjoyment.

It’s not really about entitlement, but in my experience, if you relax a bit then you find your general enjoyment of life increasing.

 Flinty wrote:
It’s not really about entitlement, but in my experience, if you relax a bit then you find your general enjoyment of life increasing.

Why do you think my games aren't relaxed or enjoyable? I don't have to lower my standards and accept unpainted models to have fun. And nothing of value would be added by playing against them.

Wyldhunt wrote:
I answered 1. My game experience is not diminished by gray plastic, but a nice paint job is always a bonus.

Same. If I get a new army I don't want to wait an year to play it, and for the same reason I wouldn't refuse games from opponents who don't have their army battle ready. Painting and playing are different parts of the hobby, for someone even two separate hobbies, and I definitely encourage people not to rush their paint jobs. Take your time to paint the models, in the meanwhile enjoy playing.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

CadianSgtBob wrote:


I don't enjoy games with unpainted models. But apparently I need to relax and give people the games they're entitled to have, regardless of my own enjoyment.

No, you're actually right. If you don't like games with unpainted models you are definitely entitled to refuse such games. We play for having fun, and what's fun for people is entirely subjective.

mrFickle wrote:
The game is immersive for many and I think the look of an army is part of that immersion.

I wouldn’t like to regularly play against someone who flat out doesn’t paint anything but I’d someone adds some WIP models to a painted army that’s cool.

I think there are so many companies doing speed paints, like contrast, that it’s not hard to prime some models and coat them in a single colour. Even that’s better than nothing.

But I’m way more into the painting than the playing

Priming is the hardest part for me when working on models, and I dislike playing with models being painted as often that’s when damage can occur to the paint.

All in all, I don’t care much for 40k. And more get excited for good paint at skirmish games, where we can see the individual more. But I don’t even remember specifically any games I play against painted army’s over none painted.

Most of my group play with fully painted armies there are a few members who haven't made any real progression and it is starting to grind on us a little bit especially because those of us that don't play with partiality finished models don't use a unit if it isn't fnished, we get not liking painting, I don't yet I play with a fully painted army, it was a massive slap in the face when said group members had done nothing after we took a month off to get stuff painted for warhammer world

I'm lucky in that I play in a like-minded group. None of us would conceive of taking unpainted models onto the tabletop, so the point is kind of moot.

Playing with and against painted models is definitely my preference - now more than when i was younger. I think it shows pride in ones hobby as well as a bit of reapinsibility and dedication. imo it doesn't need to be 'eavy metal standard - As much as I'll pick out all the belt buckles etc, not everyone does and i wouldnt expect it; my standard for painting is 'does it look decent enough* from 3 or 4 feet away?

The hobby contains elements of painting, modelling, converting and gaming. Being into one or some and not the others is totally fine; imo though it means missing out/losing out on things and in the long term I feel on some levels why do 'it' if you're only into half of what 'its' about - but that can be said about anything really, and ultimately while things like contrast make it so that it literally never been easier to paint quickly and decently, and while i will encourage embracing it, and getting to grios with it, its still 'your' hobby too and no one can 'make' you do things.

That said, despite my preferences, im not an absolutist. Some people are disabled/older/etc and can't paint or at best, struggle to paint. Some people are parents of young kids and literally have 5 minutes to themselves in a month. That said, while 'having no time' can be legitimate, if you spend 4 hours a day watching netflix or xboxing - you have the time.
It goes without saying my preferences don't always take priority for me - imo the person opposite me takes priority. Generally. So long as they're reasonable.

*Some people want to get that new unit on the board asap. Some units are WIPs and are half undercoated when theyre put on the board. Models get handled and get chipped and tiny bits of paint fleck off, especially on the pointy edges. Sometimes the paintbrush doesn't reach all areas or into all the recesses and there's a streak of unpainted grey in an otherwise painted figure. Not all the intricacies will be painted. All of these are fairly reasonable caveats imo.

 overlord inspiron wrote:
Most of my group play with fully painted armies there are a few members who haven't made any real progression and it is starting to grind on us a little bit especially because those of us that don't play with partiality finished models don't use a unit if it isn't fnished, we get not liking painting, I don't yet I play with a fully painted army, it was a massive slap in the face when said group members had done nothing after we took a month off to get stuff painted for warhammer world

I can appreciate your honesty, but this is nevertheless an extremely toxic attitude. "I suffered, so now you should too." It's crazy enough when people wear that attitude in the classic boomer way ("i walked 600 miles to school because we didn't have a bus, so you should too") but it's an order of magnitude crazier when it's about something that you had complete choice over.

I mean, shouldn't you actually admire them for having more backbone than you? They didn't like painting, so they stopped. You didn't like painting, but you yielded to whatever pressures were placed on you, and now you're never getting that time back

I legit respect your honesty about it, though. You've revealed the core issue for many people -- some nasty emotional cocktail of resentment, jealousy and regret -- instead of pretending it's a moral failing on behalf of the people who don't want to paint.

 Altruizine wrote:
You've revealed the core issue for many people -- some nasty emotional cocktail of resentment, jealousy and regret -- instead of pretending it's a moral failing on behalf of the people who don't want to paint.

And you've revealed the core issue for many people -- some nasty emotional cocktail of insecurity, entitlement, and shame -- instead of pretending it's a moral failing on behalf of the people who don't want to play against unpainted armies.