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Andykp wrote:
The tau were originally a reach out to the Japanese market at the time. They have always felt not quite right for 40k to me. Bits are interesting but this “god” ruins those few decent snippets.

Gonna need a citation for that claim. Many have made it, none have provided citation.

Old man yells at T'au.

Commissar von Toussaint wrote:
Interesting that even Tolkien left gaps and ambiguities.

Lol, yeah, because he DIED.

He would have continued revising and narrowing for as long as he lived.

As a ynnari fan, I'm relatively okay with introducing new warp entities to the setting. It's a big galaxy. There's room for weird stuff. Individuals don't have to love all of it.

That said, my understanding was that warp entities below a certain power level tended to get sort of lumped in with whichever god is conceptually closest to them. So a hypothetical god of fear maybe ends up as functionally being a vassal to Nurgle because "fear of death" or whatever. I picture these conceptually iffy spirits being more likely to "change allegiances" both as a metaphor and as a result of bigger gods' powers waxing and waning.

A warp entity fed by the belief of dim-spirited tau plus their relatively small empire of more psychically active pals doesn't seem like it should be strong enough to carve out and maintain its own place in the warp the way the Emperor presumably has. So if something like the Greater Good God can exist and maintain independence, it really makes me curious as to what other warp entities could be exerting similar amounts of power and maintaining their freedom. Like, our hypothetical Fear god should probably be pretty fat and happy, right?

Or it's just a Tzeentch ploy, which I wouldn't hate really. It would dovetail with the Farsight novels in an interesting way. Plus, Tzeentch seems like he'd be the one to take efforts to end the monotonous state of affairs in the galaxy for change's sake. Maybe intentionally fostering a less overtly grimdark faction is Tzeentch's way of shaking things up.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
One can also feel that they work thematically but not aesthetically. (Camp I am in.)

40k doesn't have an aesthetic though, individual factions do.

40k does have an overarching theme of "Grimdark" which the T'au lore fits absolutely fine with as the plucky upstart that has big ideas but a lack of knowledge of the cruel nature of the galaxy. When their story progresses we see the cracks in the facade begin to show as the T'au begin to realise that not everyone is going to be an easy sell for the Greater Good alongside the fairly cutthroat nature of the Ethereals in attaining their goals.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

Andykp wrote:
The tau were originally a reach out to the Japanese market at the time. They have always felt not quite right for 40k to me. Bits are interesting but this “god” ruins those few decent snippets.

Gonna need a citation for that claim. Many have made it, none have provided citation.

The “tau not feeling right bit”?? That’s just common sense!

Assume you mean the Japan bit, don’t think I can, it is just what was said at the time, don’t know if it was by GW or observers. Made sense at the time. Supposed it may come up in some share holder stuff, if they were even floated then? No idea sorry.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Gert wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
One can also feel that they work thematically but not aesthetically. (Camp I am in.)

40k doesn't have an aesthetic though, individual factions do.

40k does have an overarching theme of "Grimdark" which the T'au lore fits absolutely fine with as the plucky upstart that has big ideas but a lack of knowledge of the cruel nature of the galaxy. When their story progresses we see the cracks in the facade begin to show as the T'au begin to realise that not everyone is going to be an easy sell for the Greater Good alongside the fairly cutthroat nature of the Ethereals in attaining their goals.

That’s not quite on the same scale of dark as the rest of the factions though. It’s pretty breezy compared to the eldars or just plain old humanity. The fact that they are “plucky” and trying to do good stuff is pretty naff compared to having been conned out of your souls so star gods can eat them!

What’s the down side to joining the tau empire? (Genuine question, never paid much attention to them).


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Looking for a citation about the Japanese market I came across this in some fandom thing,

According to Andy Chambers, the chief designer at the time, the Tau were intended "to be altruistic and idealistic, believing heartily in unification as the way forward." Graham McNeill was responsible for much of the background material produced for the Tau, developing what Andy Chambers described as "...their proud, quiet but determined character [developed] to the point where they actually became a rather likeable, if slightly naive addition to the cosmos."[1]

1. Chambers, Andy (October 2001). "Chapter Approved - Tau Designers Notes". White Dwarf: Australian Edition (262).

It’s that feeling that put me off them, this new addition doesn’t help.

No news on my Japan claim though.

 Gert wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
One can also feel that they work thematically but not aesthetically. (Camp I am in.)

40k doesn't have an aesthetic though, individual factions do.

I wouldn't agree with that. All the 40k factions prior to Tau have features in their design roots that are drawn from either antiquity or just "old world". The most "modern" of which might be the Guard, since their vehicles are drawn from WW1/2. Space Marines draw from mideival times or earlier. Eldar, Orks and Chaos from fantasy. Necrons from ancient Egypt or other ancient civilizations. The aesthetic language of Tau is decidedly more modern/futuristic in comparison.

Not that I don't like Tau or appreciate their inclusion in 40k. It's just that their design language lacks "old world" in comparison, and it's likely a very conscious decision.

On Tau in general, and not the specific topic in particular:

This is contrast play, and Games Workshop has played it well since the introduction of Tau.

Take a step back and think about it: If everything is dark, then nothing is dark. If everything is mad, then nothing is mad. You need a naïve upstart to bring home the horrors of everything else there is in this galaxy of horrors.

Furthermore, the simple genius with Tau background is that they mirror humanity during its golden age, and its growing reliance on Abominable Intelligence looms in the future as a similar threat. The Tau were always meant to become jaded by struggling against a bonkers galaxy of bloodshed and horror, and the recent background additions played to fulfil this long implied road ahead.

To be clear, the Tau are by no means appetizing outside of Warhammer 40'000. They are a play on modern propaganda states (including Japan's Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere), on brainwashing and shady ops. There are themes of subversion and ignition of bloody civil strife on human colony worlds, for instance. And they utilize cannibal auxiliaries. But compared to the rest of the galaxy we are most often presented with, the Tau prior to the new background additions nevertheless manage to present a plucky naïve upstart faction.

Warhammer 40'000 needs one such major faction. Full stop. The ancient Craftworld Eldar cannot shoulder this role, however nuanced they might appear in comparison to Orks, Chaos and Imperials. Anyone who has paid close attention to the effective contrast play in JRR Tolkien's setting should realize the virtue of intelligently utilizing some of the same tools here. The Tau fill this role well, as do much more niche encounters in the background with sane Dark Age of Technology remnants (some of 40k's very best moments, by the way). They are both a mirror image held up to Imperial Man to show him what he once was, and what he could have been. The new Squats were cleverly designed to play into some of the same themes in a limited fashion (hat off), but their extreme and ruthless acquisitiveness make them as lunatic as any other faction at the end of the day. A naïve little upstart is still required, or an important point of view to tell the stories of the setting from will be missed.

The video game Fire Warrior had a simple story, nothing fancy but nothing out of wack either. For being something as simple as it was, I will never forget how it played the themes of the Tau contra larger 40k straight like an arrow through the entire simple storyline, and managed to give a strong enough impression by setting up the Tau first against the fanatic and degraded Imperium, and then against the otherworldly insanity of Chaos. And without a doubt it left a strong impression beyond the uninterestingly predictive games pitting heroic Space Marines against Orks or Chaos.

As to Old World aesthetics, Dark Angels were American prairie Indians prior to their revamp. One should think of 40k as drawing heavily upon human history, ultimately without geographical limits where the developers are learned and bold enough to stride afar for inspiration. It's of course focused on Old World aesthetics given the game's origins, but its vistas should never be expected to be constrained to such. It's a big galaxy, with plenty of room to get creative.

Andykp wrote:
That’s not quite on the same scale of dark as the rest of the factions though. It’s pretty breezy compared to the eldars or just plain old humanity. The fact that they are “plucky” and trying to do good stuff is pretty naff compared to having been conned out of your souls so star gods can eat them!

Which is the point. They're the naive new kid on the block. One of the stand-out moments of the T'au lore for me is when they meet Urien Rakarth who initiates a "cultural exchange" as payment for aid in battle. The T'au agree to send seven T'au from each Caste (barring the Ethereals) but it soon becomes clear that Rakarth uses these T'au to make Grotesques. The Drukhari then demand the Ethereals, the T'au say no and a huge raiding party strips a T'au world clean of life.

What’s the down side to joining the tau empire? (Genuine question, never paid much attention to them).

Apart from masses of cultural brainwashing, there isn't really much of one for your average human or minor Xenos race. The T'au seemingly offer an escape from Imperial life or protection from the many threats in the galaxy.
The reason the T'au fit is that despite their promises of a better life (which isn't hard considering the state of most Imperial worlds) and generally genuine desire for peace over war, they can't hope to succeed. The further the T'au reach into the galaxy the more horrors and threats they come across. The more territory they take from the Imperium, the greater a threat the Imperium considers them. While their philosophy is idealistic it doesn't stand a chance in the long term against foes like the Imperium, Tyranids, Orks, and Necrons. But the T'au don't know that and only recent events (the 4th Sphere, the wider threat of the forces of Chaos, the seemingly endless swarms of the Tyranids) have started to chip away at their idealism.

Andykp wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
It was bad and lazy writing 10, 20, 30 years ago too. Everything they write is declared as 'I do not personally like this, so it is bad and lazy writing'. There's a big difference between 'this is bad writing' and 'this writing is not enjoyable to me'.

Ok, to clarify, when I state my opinion on anything on here it is only that, my opinion. I do not state it as objective fact but my subjective take on it. For example when I say that is lazy or crap, that is my opinion. I am not saying anyone else is wrong to like it.

Better? Apologies if it came across as me saying anything else, never my intention.

I mean, it wasn't directed at you specifically. It just came to mind because... well straw-camel's-back sort of thing. I personally try to clarify (still working on the 'succeed' part) because 'there are 10 models in the box' and 'I think there should be 10 models in the box' have completely different meanings despite being quite similar.

 Karak Norn Clansman wrote:

Warhammer 40'000 needs one such major faction. Full stop. .

No. "We need a more optimistic, bright-eyed 40k faction" said no one ever until the Tau came into being.

The bright-eyed guys in 40k are arguably the Ultramarines. Their codex is filled with honor and hope. They're the goodest of the good guys in the original reckoning. They recruit by voluntary enlistment, families are proud to have marines in the their lineage and they never were tempted by Chaos in the slightest.

And the funny thing is that's not even original lore. Space marines started out as dull-witted guys with sloping foreheads who couldn't even spell "kill" on their power armor. With 2nd ed. the marines lost the beaks, and the Ultras became the Bretonnians, ready to smite the evil in the name of all that was right and good.

Anyhow, the aesthetic was rooted in the Fantasy side, as others have noted. The Tau do not fit in at all. They do not have Fantasy antecedents, and it shows. The fact that their Force is now Female shows a want of any real sense of who or what they are.

 Tyran wrote:
The whole point of 40k is that it is this giant sandbox in which GW took concepts from both their fantasy game and from other people and smashed it all together.

What are you talking about? They're on the record in court as saying that their artists don't make use of external influences...

+ + +

The curiosity for me on this one is how quickly this entity appears to have cropped up. We know that the Tau underwent a rapid evolution after being noted by Explorators in, what, M36? I don't have the 8th ed book with the timeline, but I'd guess at "client races" being a thing as of, what, M40 (+/- 1) - if it is client race belief that has created this entity, then it seems to have come about awfully quickly, given the small number of potential believers, especially if it has now reached a power level where it can maroon a DG fleet in the Warp...

Commissar von Toussaint wrote:

Anyhow, the aesthetic was rooted in the Fantasy side, as others have noted. The Tau do not fit in at all. They do not have Fantasy antecedents, and it shows.

They have a touch, in that the (very cool) Fire Warriors draw a bit from samurai riflemen. Much less than other factions though.

The fact that their Force is now Female shows a want of any real sense of who or what they are.

I don't know where that's coming from but I don't see it? Thematically they seem fine.

Commissar von Toussaint wrote:
No. "We need a more optimistic, bright-eyed 40k faction" said no one ever until the Tau came into being.

Because nobody ever roots for the plucky underdog... Oh, wait.

The bright-eyed guys in 40k are arguably the Ultramarines. Their codex is filled with honor and hope. They're the goodest of the good guys in the original reckoning. They recruit by voluntary enlistment, families are proud to have marines in the their lineage and they never were tempted by Chaos in the slightest.

And yet they are still horrific bioweapons that serve a despotic and corrupt regime. They are good within the context of the Imperium which is like saying Von Rundstedt is a good guy compared to Dietrich.
The Ultramarines don't act when the High Lords do something insanely corrupt or the Inquisition wipes out an innocent population, they only ever fight the ruling caste of the Imperium when they infringe on their autonomy. Honour is only extended to those they deem fit to receive it, an excellent cop-out for them. People are proud to have their children become Ultramarines because they are indoctrinated to believe the Astartes are literal Angels of the God-Emperor. Even the most reasonable Ultramarine of all time, Uriel Ventris, threatened to conduct Exterminatus on a planet the T'au were winning a war on rather than let them have it. Their honour is bogus.

 Gert wrote:
. Even the most reasonable Ultramarine of all time, Uriel Ventris, threatened to conduct Exterminatus on a planet the T'au were winning a war on rather than let them have it. Their honour is bogus.

I guess I have to ask which part of "In the grim darkness of the far future there is only war" you didn't understand?

I can't figure you Tau enthusiasts out. Half you are arguing that they're genocidal maniacs just like everyone else, and the other half are insisting that they're the needed ray of light to make the darkness seem darker.

Which is it?

Commissar von Toussaint wrote:
I guess I have to ask which part of "In the grim darkness of the far future there is only war" you didn't understand?

I can't figure you Tau enthusiasts out. Half you are arguing that they're genocidal maniacs just like everyone else, and the other half are insisting that they're the needed ray of light to make the darkness seem darker.

Which is it?

The T'au prefer not to genocide but as I said if it benefits the Greater Good then they won't stop it. The T'au are still bad guys, just not as bad as the Imperium or the servants of Chaos. Compared to the other galactic powers they aren't downright evil but are nonetheless still bad. Employing a rigid caste system where the T'au are split into genetically specific castes that are banned from interbreeding that also places non-T'au below all of the T'au castes, using re-education centres to force the more resistant new members of the Empire into accepting the Greater Good, and running sterilisation camps for those populations deemed too difficult to re-educate are all bad things but these pale in comparison to Imperium where your entire family gets put into 50 generations of slavery because you were in the wrong street at the wrong time or the Necrons who will either eradicate you as vermin or enslave your entire planet for sentimental reasons or to have a large source of meatbags to experiment on.

If you had actually read what has been said then you'd understand that while the T'au are still idealistic and want to be "good", they ultimately aren't and in the end will either be crushed by a more ruthless enemy or be forced to emulate those enemies themselves to survive in the galaxy of the 41st millennium.

 Gert wrote:


If you had actually read what has been said then you'd understand that while the T'au are still idealistic and want to be "good", they ultimately aren't and in the end will either be crushed by a more ruthless enemy or be forced to emulate those enemies themselves to survive in the galaxy of the 41st millennium.

Right, but the Imperium also has true believers who dream of broad, sunlit uplands, so what value are they adding other than a mecha aesthetic?

Commissar von Toussaint wrote:
Right, but the Imperium also has true believers who dream of broad, sunlit uplands, so what value are they adding other than a mecha aesthetic?

The true believers in the Imperium are dreaming of sunny skies and green hills with a distinct lack of anything non-human which has been brutally ground into dust. War comes first and then a lengthy stalemate while they deal with the other 40 problems that cropped up.

The T'au dream of a united galaxy under their rule with significantly less genocide if possible but they will break some eggs to make this omelet if they don't get what they want. Peace first, then war.

Do you see the difference?

Also, where do the Nids fit in your fantasy equivalent? Because if the T'au aren't allowed in 40k because they don't have a fantasy equivalent then by your logic Nids also have to go. It could also just be that 40k doesn't have to be a mirror of WHFB and it doing its own thing is a good thing than trying to force similarities for no reason.

 Gert wrote:


Do you see the difference?

No.

Also, where do the Nids fit in your fantasy equivalent?

LOL, maybe you've heard of the Alien franchise. It was a big deal back in the day. GW recognized that and created a board game around the concept of terminators trying to clear a...wait for it...space hulk.

Like I said, the Tau were a sop to get people who liked the mecha aesthetic, which is fine. Yay Tau players! [High fives all around]

Yeah I don't have the time or energy to continue whatever this is.

 Gert wrote:
Yeah I don't have the time or energy to continue whatever this is.

I try to be nice and supportive and this is the thanks I get.

[weeps silently]

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

Andykp wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
It was bad and lazy writing 10, 20, 30 years ago too. Everything they write is declared as 'I do not personally like this, so it is bad and lazy writing'. There's a big difference between 'this is bad writing' and 'this writing is not enjoyable to me'.

Ok, to clarify, when I state my opinion on anything on here it is only that, my opinion. I do not state it as objective fact but my subjective take on it. For example when I say that is lazy or crap, that is my opinion. I am not saying anyone else is wrong to like it.

Better? Apologies if it came across as me saying anything else, never my intention.

I mean, it wasn't directed at you specifically. It just came to mind because... well straw-camel's-back sort of thing. I personally try to clarify (still working on the 'succeed' part) because 'there are 10 models in the box' and 'I think there should be 10 models in the box' have completely different meanings despite being quite similar.

No offence taken mate, there are plenty of folk on here who spout opinion as fact then argue to high hell that it is pure objective truth, drives me mad. A bit of fluff chiming with you or not is the most subjective thing going, one thing I’ve learnt over the years is that a faction means one thing to one player and another to another. I am very much of the school of “use the background you like and ignore the gist you don’t.” - which is mostly tau for me. I want to like them, some of the models are great, I love fore warriors and the ghost keel has nearly got me to buy some tau but the are too….nice. They have no edge. Being naive doesn’t cut it for me.

Commissar von Toussaint wrote:
The fact that their Force is now Female shows a want of any real sense of who or what they are.

This you?

If yeah... huuuuge surprise that some self-described "curmudgeon" blogging about Lesbian Velma and Woke Hollywood doesn't approve of a female warp entity in good old-fashioned Boyhammer 40K.

 Altruizine wrote:

Commissar von Toussaint wrote:
The fact that their Force is now Female shows a want of any real sense of who or what they are.

This you?

If yeah... huuuuge surprise that some self-described "curmudgeon" blogging about Lesbian Velma and Woke Hollywood doesn't approve of a female warp entity in good old-fashioned Boyhammer 40K.

It's amazing what kind of bombs can be thrown in the rooms on this forum without fear of blowback. This is flat out unbased character assassination, and this comes from someone who disagrees with CVT on the regular...

 Gert wrote:

Also, where do the Nids fit in your fantasy equivalent? Because if the T'au aren't allowed in 40k because they don't have a fantasy equivalent then by your logic Nids also have to go. It could also just be that 40k doesn't have to be a mirror of WHFB and it doing its own thing is a good thing than trying to force similarities for no reason.

Nids draw their roots from Alien/s, as well as ye olde Starship Troopers, etc. But they are also the epitome of cosmic horror. They're not humanoid at all (unlike the other factions), and they come from "elsewhere" being not-of-this-galaxy. Additionally, Genestealer Cults are arguably the most disturbing faction out there. They're bleak AF, peak grimdark, core to 40K. So not "Fantasy" or antiquity per se, but arguably very Lovecraftian horror. But maybe most importantly they're just dark, which naturally fits right in with the "future apocalypse" setting.

Tau have "darkened" a bit over the years as they've been more developed. But on release they "presented" as "bright". That was jarring for many people, especially as 3rd ed was a sorta peak grimdark era.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Altruizine wrote:

Commissar von Toussaint wrote:
The fact that their Force is now Female shows a want of any real sense of who or what they are.

This you?

If yeah... huuuuge surprise that some self-described "curmudgeon" blogging about Lesbian Velma and Woke Hollywood doesn't approve of a female warp entity in good old-fashioned Boyhammer 40K.

Tbf they also posted this:

Commissar von Toussaint wrote:
As far as it goes, the Greater Good can be female, I mean the Eldar have a female protectress.

So I dunno how that all adds up.

 Just Tony wrote:

 Altruizine wrote:

Commissar von Toussaint wrote:
The fact that their Force is now Female shows a want of any real sense of who or what they are.

This you?

If yeah... huuuuge surprise that some self-described "curmudgeon" blogging about Lesbian Velma and Woke Hollywood doesn't approve of a female warp entity in good old-fashioned Boyhammer 40K.

It's amazing what kind of bombs can be thrown in the rooms on this forum without fear of blowback. This is flat out unbased character assassination, and this comes from someone who disagrees with CVT on the regular...

It's a link from their signature*. If that's all it takes for their character to die then it was a case of suicide, not assassination.

*you know, that COMPLETELY OPTIONAL section of a profile, which, at an individual's discretion, may or may not be used for self promotion and links to their reactionary cultural criticism.

 Altruizine wrote:

 Just Tony wrote:

 Altruizine wrote:

Commissar von Toussaint wrote:
The fact that their Force is now Female shows a want of any real sense of who or what they are.

This you?

If yeah... huuuuge surprise that some self-described "curmudgeon" blogging about Lesbian Velma and Woke Hollywood doesn't approve of a female warp entity in good old-fashioned Boyhammer 40K.

It's amazing what kind of bombs can be thrown in the rooms on this forum without fear of blowback. This is flat out unbased character assassination, and this comes from someone who disagrees with CVT on the regular...

It's a link from their signature*. If that's all it takes for their character to die then it was a case of suicide, not assassination.

*you know, that COMPLETELY OPTIONAL section of a profile, which, at an individual's discretion, may or may not be used for self promotion and links to their reactionary cultural criticism.

Straight for the defamation of character though. Kind of a lame callout, if you ask me.

 Altruizine wrote:

 Just Tony wrote:

 Altruizine wrote:

Commissar von Toussaint wrote:
The fact that their Force is now Female shows a want of any real sense of who or what they are.

This you?

If yeah... huuuuge surprise that some self-described "curmudgeon" blogging about Lesbian Velma and Woke Hollywood doesn't approve of a female warp entity in good old-fashioned Boyhammer 40K.

It's amazing what kind of bombs can be thrown in the rooms on this forum without fear of blowback. This is flat out unbased character assassination, and this comes from someone who disagrees with CVT on the regular...

It's a link from their signature*. If that's all it takes for their character to die then it was a case of suicide, not assassination.

*you know, that COMPLETELY OPTIONAL section of a profile, which, at an individual's discretion, may or may not be used for self promotion and links to their reactionary cultural criticism.

My own signature contains a quote from another poster on this website, does that mean that I'm suddenly that poster? Your logic is flawed at best; completely missing at worst...

 Just Tony wrote:

 Altruizine wrote:

 Just Tony wrote:

 Altruizine wrote:

Commissar von Toussaint wrote:
The fact that their Force is now Female shows a want of any real sense of who or what they are.

This you?

If yeah... huuuuge surprise that some self-described "curmudgeon" blogging about Lesbian Velma and Woke Hollywood doesn't approve of a female warp entity in good old-fashioned Boyhammer 40K.

It's amazing what kind of bombs can be thrown in the rooms on this forum without fear of blowback. This is flat out unbased character assassination, and this comes from someone who disagrees with CVT on the regular...

It's a link from their signature*. If that's all it takes for their character to die then it was a case of suicide, not assassination.

*you know, that COMPLETELY OPTIONAL section of a profile, which, at an individual's discretion, may or may not be used for self promotion and links to their reactionary cultural criticism.

My own signature contains a quote from another poster on this website, does that mean that I'm suddenly that poster? Your logic is flawed at best; completely missing at worst...

I'm sorry, Tony, it's impossible to engage with your level of pigheadedness.

Your signature identifies itself as a quotation. Their signature identifies itself as a link to their writings. Try again to explain where I am making an unfair assumption.

 Karak Norn Clansman wrote:
On Tau in general, and not the specific topic in particular:

This is contrast play, and Games Workshop has played it well since the introduction of Tau.

Take a step back and think about it: If everything is dark, then nothing is dark. If everything is mad, then nothing is mad. You need a naïve upstart to bring home the horrors of everything else there is in this galaxy of horrors.

Furthermore, the simple genius with Tau background is that they mirror humanity during its golden age, and its growing reliance on Abominable Intelligence looms in the future as a similar threat. The Tau were always meant to become jaded by struggling against a bonkers galaxy of bloodshed and horror, and the recent background additions played to fulfil this long implied road ahead.

To be clear, the Tau are by no means appetizing outside of Warhammer 40'000. They are a play on modern propaganda states (including Japan's Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere), on brainwashing and shady ops. There are themes of subversion and ignition of bloody civil strife on human colony worlds, for instance. And they utilize cannibal auxiliaries. But compared to the rest of the galaxy we are most often presented with, the Tau prior to the new background additions nevertheless manage to present a plucky naïve upstart faction.

Warhammer 40'000 needs one such major faction. Full stop. The ancient Craftworld Eldar cannot shoulder this role, however nuanced they might appear in comparison to Orks, Chaos and Imperials. Anyone who has paid close attention to the effective contrast play in JRR Tolkien's setting should realize the virtue of intelligently utilizing some of the same tools here. The Tau fill this role well, as do much more niche encounters in the background with sane Dark Age of Technology remnants (some of 40k's very best moments, by the way). They are both a mirror image held up to Imperial Man to show him what he once was, and what he could have been. The new Squats were cleverly designed to play into some of the same themes in a limited fashion (hat off), but their extreme and ruthless acquisitiveness make them as lunatic as any other faction at the end of the day. A naïve little upstart is still required, or an important point of view to tell the stories of the setting from will be missed.

The video game Fire Warrior had a simple story, nothing fancy but nothing out of wack either. For being something as simple as it was, I will never forget how it played the themes of the Tau contra larger 40k straight like an arrow through the entire simple storyline, and managed to give a strong enough impression by setting up the Tau first against the fanatic and degraded Imperium, and then against the otherworldly insanity of Chaos. And without a doubt it left a strong impression beyond the uninterestingly predictive games pitting heroic Space Marines against Orks or Chaos.

As to Old World aesthetics, Dark Angels were American prairie Indians prior to their revamp. One should think of 40k as drawing heavily upon human history, ultimately without geographical limits where the developers are learned and bold enough to stride afar for inspiration. It's of course focused on Old World aesthetics given the game's origins, but its vistas should never be expected to be constrained to such. It's a big galaxy, with plenty of room to get creative.

On this we see the same cycle played out again and again. Expansion. Complacency. Pride. Fall. Damnation.

The Old Ones did it. The Necrontyr did it. The Eldar did it. Humanity is doing it. The Tau are starting it.

Round and round and round the same tale of woe goes. Enthusiasm turns to Fanaticism. Surety of purpose turns to arrogance and ignorance. Other than Orks and Tyranids, it seems inescapable.

 Insectum7 wrote:
Nids draw their roots from Alien/s, as well as ye olde Starship Troopers, etc. But they are also the epitome of cosmic horror. They're not humanoid at all (unlike the other factions), and they come from "elsewhere" being not-of-this-galaxy. Additionally, Genestealer Cults are arguably the most disturbing faction out there. They're bleak AF, peak grimdark, core to 40K. So not "Fantasy" or antiquity per se, but arguably very Lovecraftian horror. But maybe most importantly they're just dark, which naturally fits right in with the "future apocalypse" setting.

Tau have "darkened" a bit over the years as they've been more developed. But on release they "presented" as "bright". That was jarring for many people, especially as 3rd ed was a sorta peak grimdark era.

Ok but you've missed my point. I'm not arguing that Tyranids shouldn't be allowed because they aren't "grimdark" enough, I'm saying that if T'au aren't allowed because they don't have a fantasy equivalent, then surely the same applies to Nids. The arguments I got in return had nothing to do with the idea that 40k was a space version of Warhammer Fantasy nor did it address the notion that factions could only be present in 40k if they had a Fantasy counterpart.

If it's your opinion that T'au don't belong in 40k because they aren't as "grimdark" as the Imperium, Necrons, or Chaos then that's fine, I'll disagree but I'll have the discussion. If your opinion is that you just don't like the T'au again, fine that's your opinion. But if you argue that the T'au shouldn't be in 40k because of reason X but then can't back up reason X when challenged, then I'm not going to entertain that opinion at all especially if you also refuse to acknowledge new information.