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 Dryaktylus wrote:
Well, loosing the Compendium teams is a hard cut. That leaves entire factions with no KT at all (Tyranids, Death Guard, Custodes/SoS, Grey Knights, Daemons) while others have very limited and sometimes rather untypical (SoB) teams.

 tauist wrote:
Especially bitter about losing Firstborn Marines forever! Counts as Primaris, here we go again...

You can still take rather generic Firstborns, just not the loyal ones. I think the rules of the Legionaries or the Night Lords are more suitable than those of the Primaris.

Ooh, good one! Legionary team rules it is going forward, then

List building aside, I'm looking forward to this new edition. Probably just the core book, but interested to see what they have for the starter set later on...

 Olthannon wrote:
I hope they really iron out obscured and sight line rules!

Yeah. I have never been able to wrap my head around those rules in KT. I hope they come up with something more intuitive.

 Pariah Press wrote:

 Olthannon wrote:
I hope they really iron out obscured and sight line rules!

Yeah. I have never been able to wrap my head around those rules in KT. I hope they come up with something more intuitive.

Simply basing it on what something needs to count as either, rather than basing it on exceptions, would go a long way. It's non-intuitive that an object does not obscure someone if they're too close to it.

Almost every kill team released in a boxed set** from the Veteran Guardsmen of Kill Team: Octarius right up to the Hernkyn Yaegirs of Kill Team: Termination will have fully updated rules for the new edition and a pack of physical datacards to keep them close at hand

Wonder what boxed teams won't have updated rules & cards. I'm guessing either means they won't exist in the new edition or the team needs a new team composition?

 Pariah Press wrote:

 Olthannon wrote:
I hope they really iron out obscured and sight line rules!

Yeah. I have never been able to wrap my head around those rules in KT. I hope they come up with something more intuitive.

Quite the opposite for me - once I read them I was astounded so many people don't understand what is written in the rules, including some of my opponents.

The relations between light(low) cover, heavy cover, orders and vantage points should be pretty obvious to anyone who has played even one video game cover shooter in their life.

Obscuring is just "don't shoot with some tall terrain in the way unless either the shooter or the target are close to this terrain" with the obvious aim of stopping people from trying to find visibility across the entire table through tiny holes in walls.

All these rules together limit shooting heavily and that's why they make an interesting game which is more about positioning and maneuver so that you actually can attack than throwing dice at each other hoping they stick

Ancient Otter wrote:

Almost every kill team released in a boxed set** from the Veteran Guardsmen of Kill Team: Octarius right up to the Hernkyn Yaegirs of Kill Team: Termination will have fully updated rules for the new edition and a pack of physical datacards to keep them close at hand

Wonder what boxed teams won't have updated rules & cards. I'm guessing either means they won't exist in the new edition or the team needs a new team composition?

I'm guessing the Aspect Warriors will be one missing out, since their team isn't readily available in one box, as well as the Inquisition acolytes and the mutating Chaos Cult, each requiring multiple boxes to function.

Cyel wrote:

 Pariah Press wrote:

 Olthannon wrote:
I hope they really iron out obscured and sight line rules!

Yeah. I have never been able to wrap my head around those rules in KT. I hope they come up with something more intuitive.

Quite the opposite for me - once I read them I was astounded so many people don't understand what is written in the rules, including some of my opponents.

The relations between light(low) cover, heavy cover, orders and vantage points should be pretty obvious to anyone who has played even one video game cover shooter in their life.

Obscuring is just "don't shoot with some tall terrain in the way unless either the shooter or the target are close to this terrain" with the obvious aim of stopping people for trying to find visibility across the entire table through tiny holes in walls.

All these rules together limit shooting heavily and that's why they make an interesting game which is more about positioning and maneuver so that you actually can attack than throwing dice at each other hoping they stick

Yeah, all of this. True the wording needs revision but the effect in total is ideal.
Also the general idea, for verisimilitude, is that its easier to not just spot but land a solid hit on someone who is silhouetted against a nearby window (unless they are specifically trying to hide), than it is to do the same for someone who is only visible through distant glimpses (unless they are in the wide open).

Cyel wrote:

 Pariah Press wrote:

 Olthannon wrote:
I hope they really iron out obscured and sight line rules!

Yeah. I have never been able to wrap my head around those rules in KT. I hope they come up with something more intuitive.

Quite the opposite for me - once I read them I was astounded so many people don't understand what is written in the rules, including some of my opponents.

The relations between light(low) cover, heavy cover, orders and vantage points should be pretty obvious to anyone who has played even one video game cover shooter in their life.

Maybe that’s my problem. Didn’t play the right kinds of video games.

If solo / coop mode has an option for fighting hordes of Poxwalkers, that's Halloween sorted then.

But am quite looking forward to this update now.

 Pariah Press wrote:

Cyel wrote:

 Pariah Press wrote:

 Olthannon wrote:
I hope they really iron out obscured and sight line rules!

Yeah. I have never been able to wrap my head around those rules in KT. I hope they come up with something more intuitive.

Quite the opposite for me - once I read them I was astounded so many people don't understand what is written in the rules, including some of my opponents.

The relations between light(low) cover, heavy cover, orders and vantage points should be pretty obvious to anyone who has played even one video game cover shooter in their life.

Maybe that’s my problem. Didn’t play the right kinds of video games.

Yeah, this would definitely help. Conceal is really your "hug cover" mode button, so you stick your back to the wall and your enemy has to flank to get a clear shot. Then you lean out to take a shot and now you are in Engage and can be shot back.

If the wall is low (Light Cover) you can stick your back to it and crouch all you want, but if your opponent is on a Vantage Point they will still see your body over the low obstacle - while they wouldn't over a tall one (Heavy Cover).

These relations are very logical and intuitive.

Also looking forward to Solo/Coop mode, which also makes it easier to introduce the game to the non-competitive crowd.

Cyel wrote:

 Pariah Press wrote:

Cyel wrote:

 Pariah Press wrote:

 Olthannon wrote:
I hope they really iron out obscured and sight line rules!

Yeah. I have never been able to wrap my head around those rules in KT. I hope they come up with something more intuitive.

Quite the opposite for me - once I read them I was astounded so many people don't understand what is written in the rules, including some of my opponents.

The relations between light(low) cover, heavy cover, orders and vantage points should be pretty obvious to anyone who has played even one video game cover shooter in their life.

Maybe that’s my problem. Didn’t play the right kinds of video games.

Yeah, this would definitely help. Conceal is really your "hug cover" mode button, so you stick your back to the wall and your enemy has to flank to get a clear shot. Then you lean out to take a shot and now you are in Engage and can be shot back.

If the wall is low (Light Cover) you can stick your back to it and crouch all you want, but if your opponent is on a Vantage Point they will still see your body over the low obstacle - while they wouldn't over a tall one (Heavy Cover).

These relations are very logical and intuitive.

Counter-point - if your design/rules rely on you playing the wrong sort of video games to make sense on the tabletop, you screwed the pooch on your design/rules.

I doubt we want the equivalent rules in the upcoming edition of Kill Team to only make sense if you've played a lot of Candy Crush, Hearthstone, or Sonic Eraser, now, do we?

You unnecessarily exaggerate what I wrote - the video game analogy is just that, a helpful analogy, not a prerequisite for understanding.

You may as well make a comparison with real life situations because said video game represents them as well (and I did it with my descriptions which may refer to Nathan Drake hugging cover in Uncharted as well as a regular person hugging cover in real life).

It's not like you need to remember the inventions tree from Civilization to understand the logic behind KT's orders.

 Shakalooloo wrote:

Ancient Otter wrote:

Almost every kill team released in a boxed set** from the Veteran Guardsmen of Kill Team: Octarius right up to the Hernkyn Yaegirs of Kill Team: Termination will have fully updated rules for the new edition and a pack of physical datacards to keep them close at hand

Wonder what boxed teams won't have updated rules & cards. I'm guessing either means they won't exist in the new edition or the team needs a new team composition?

I'm guessing the Aspect Warriors will be one missing out, since their team isn't readily available in one box, as well as the Inquisition acolytes and the mutating Chaos Cult, each requiring multiple boxes to function.

They've still released a box branded as Kill Team with just the Striking Scorpions in it though. I suspect you're right about the rest, it'll be the Ashes of Faith teams that don't get new rules - those teams were a bit more experimental and never got released individually either.

That said, I won't deny gaming literacy is a thing and a person with such literacy is going to pick up concepts faster with less explanation. As anyone who tried to play even the simplest video game with their grandparents can attest to


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Some reference that someone may find helpful.

Light Cover, Conceal (the enemy sniper would still see Nate crouching, because the low wall is too low to hide him from that Vantage Point!)



Light Cover, Engage



Heavy Cover, Conceal



Heavy Cover, Engage (ouch!)



Vantage Point view - Joel would see somebody crouching behind the low wall (Light Cover) in the middle of the screen thanks to his higher position, but it wouldn't help with someone hugging cover behind the bus (Heavy Cover)

The real question is who hates the Elucidean Starstriders enough that they said "No, those dudes don't get cards!"

Someone who really hates their drip?

If there's a new edition, i'm assuming that means a new starter set? Is that this new Vespid VS scions box or not? The article say it's an expansion, but then it also says it's the launch of the new edition.

 Mentlegen324 wrote:
If there's a new edition, i'm assuming that means a new starter set? Is that this new Vespid VS scions box or not? The article say it's an expansion, but then it also says it's the launch of the new edition.

It's going to have the main rulebook, but I predict that like the original Krieg vs. Kommandos box, it will be replaced by a more 'evergreen' version with less terrain/lower price point.

 Mentlegen324 wrote:
If there's a new edition, i'm assuming that means a new starter set? Is that this new Vespid VS scions box or not? The article say it's an expansion, but then it also says it's the launch of the new edition.

I suspect there will be another starter set later, in the same way that Octarius was the first complete box for Kill team, but the smaller starter set came out later.
I even get the feeling that it might have Komandos in it, but less sure they'd be up against vet guard.

Am I misreading the Vespid rules preview, or do they have AP2 and P1 on their guns if they move!?

Unless they made significant rules changes, which they say they didn’t, I see nothing giving them AP 2. APL is Action Point Limit, not Armor Piercing Level.

 alextroy wrote:
Unless they made significant rules changes, which they say they didn’t, I see nothing giving them AP 2. APL is Action Point Limit, not Armor Piercing Level.

It's called Devastating now apparently.

" Even their most basic Warriors carry a gun with the Devastating** 2 rule, which inflicts extra guaranteed damage whenever a critical hit is retained

** The new name for the old AP weapon ability."

Ah now I read it that's the old Mortal wounds one isn't it. I've taken what was written at face value without reading it!

Piercing is replacing the old AP rule. This is where the ** is in the article (at least as of now).

Devastating seems to be replacing the old MW rule.

The two are different mechanics, not stacking on each other.

yeah its MW2 in KT21 terms, plus P1 if the operative shooting moved

The example Dakka Boy datacard has a lone '32' in a circle in the lower right corner. Some form of points value?

 Shakalooloo wrote:
The example Dakka Boy datacard has a lone '32' in a circle in the lower right corner. Some form of points value?

Base size I assume

Tanstaafl wrote:

 Shakalooloo wrote:
The example Dakka Boy datacard has a lone '32' in a circle in the lower right corner. Some form of points value?

Base size I assume

You're right! D'oh!

No Nids team means 0 reasons to move to new KT rules. Got a couple friends whose teams will be in the same situation. I guess it's more current KT time for us.

Money saved!

M.

I need an article about Spec Ops in the new ed. Is it continuing? If so, have they added anything or taken anything away? Will it interact with solo and co-operative modes?

I hope we retain Asset and Base of Operation rules. Even the background generation stuff was cool, but it's all rules agnostic so we can keep using it if GW doesn't create a satisfactory equivalent in the new ed. Asset and Base of Operation rules could be at risk if solo and co-op play come at the expense of Spec Ops.