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Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





West Michigan, deep in Whitebread, USA

Hmm....I'm still not sure where I stand on this.



"By this point I'm convinced 100% that every single race in the 40k universe have somehow tapped into the ork ability to just have their tech work because they think it should."  
   
Made in ca
Gargantuan Gargant






Looks like it's bombing pretty hard for it's debut box office weekend, only garnering 2 million dollars on release:

https://fandompulse.substack.com/p/the-lord-of-the-rings-the-war-of-277

I'm sure they'll learn the wrong lessons from this, to animation/anime=bad to thinking they should have race swapped Hera for a black chick instead since that's the popular trend in Hollywood at the moment (stop redhead erasure now!).

Definitely feels like this movie was created for the main purpose of keeping the rights to the IP.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2024/12/09 20:38:30


 
   
Made in de
Joined the Military for Authentic Experience






Nuremberg

Rough one for GW putting together a new edition based on it. Likely not gonna draw much interest for the game.

I was disappointed by the low frame rate of the animation tbh, makes it look cheap and choppy. Won't be seeing it in the cinema.

   
Made in ca
Gargantuan Gargant






 Da Boss wrote:
Rough one for GW putting together a new edition based on it. Likely not gonna draw much interest for the game.

I was disappointed by the low frame rate of the animation tbh, makes it look cheap and choppy. Won't be seeing it in the cinema.


Yeah, it feels pretty low effort as far as the animation quality and style goes. Wouldn't surprise me if they went for some of the cheapest option for animation studios.
   
Made in us
The Marine Standing Behind Marneus Calgar





Upstate, New York

Wait, it was a theatrical release? I assumed it was a drop straight to streaming thing. I’m interested in seeing it, but not at movie prices. It just did not look like it had that kind of big screen quality/mojo to it.

   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

More a streaming thing that they decided to try at 'selected' cinemas I think, although i'm sure they'd have been delighted if the cinema option had worked

 
   
Made in gb
Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






According to Wikipedia, it’s not out until 13 December? At least in the US.

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Made in ca
Gargantuan Gargant






 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
According to Wikipedia, it’s not out until 13 December? At least in the US.


Yeah, the article mentions this is for the international release besides North America/the US, I think domestically they are hoping for 49.5 million but we'll see if the tepid response internationally reflects domestically as well when it releases later this weekend. Either way, not worth it for me to see through a theatre.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2024/12/10 01:10:22


 
   
Made in us
Servoarm Flailing Magos






On the Surface of the Sun aka Florida in the Summer.

Wow, I though this was another terrible Netflix cartoon (ie. Godzilla).

Maybe the story is really good...

Soooo....

Who's gonna fall on their sword and see this first?

 BorderCountess wrote:
Just because you're doing something right doesn't necessarily mean you know what you're doing...
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 Ahtman wrote:
Lathe Biosas is Dakka's Armond White.
 
   
Made in gb
Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






I’m game for that, but as someone who’s only seen the movies and genuinely, unironically enjoyed Rings of Power as a result (seeing them solely for what they are, devoid as I was of expectation*) I’m a poor judge for a geek board.

*Which is not to denigrate the opinion of others who are familiar of the source, let alone those to whom the source is held dear.

Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?

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Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka





I must leave the shire...and need to get to Cineworld...

...Buckleberry ferry! Follow me!

Casual gaming, mostly solo-coop these days.

 
   
Made in de
Joined the Military for Authentic Experience






Nuremberg

I am less bothered with the accuracy of this because it was never really fleshed out and characters are not being altered in extreme ways. The Jackson films honestly bother me more that way.

   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka





The lack of animation frames and Helm Hammerhand's "Chuck Norris" antics aside, it was a welcome addition to the LOTR movies.

They should definitely check in with Hera again, but with smoother animation.

Casual gaming, mostly solo-coop these days.

 
   
Made in us
Servoarm Flailing Magos






On the Surface of the Sun aka Florida in the Summer.

My typical question: Worth Watching?

 BorderCountess wrote:
Just because you're doing something right doesn't necessarily mean you know what you're doing...
CLICK HERE --> Mechanicus Knight House: Mine!
 Ahtman wrote:
Lathe Biosas is Dakka's Armond White.
 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka





Well, what concerns do you have?

Casual gaming, mostly solo-coop these days.

 
   
Made in us
Servoarm Flailing Magos






On the Surface of the Sun aka Florida in the Summer.

That Tom Bombidil will show up in his yelliw boots and sing for an hour.

 BorderCountess wrote:
Just because you're doing something right doesn't necessarily mean you know what you're doing...
CLICK HERE --> Mechanicus Knight House: Mine!
 Ahtman wrote:
Lathe Biosas is Dakka's Armond White.
 
   
Made in gb
Gavin Thorpe




I saw this tonight. I'd say it met my expectations, albeit after a few days of reading some extremely doom-laden reviews.
I'll spoiler my thoughts for anyone interested, but in brief I'd say it was a reasonably entertaining fan-fiction taking some extreme liberties with a beloved brand to get you through the door. It's an anime that just about exists in Middle Earth, but it's not remotely in the same league as the big films and it shouldn't be considered as part of the same setting.
I think rebranding MESBG to try and ride the hype-train is going to prove a very poor decision because I can't imagine this film holding up as well as the Hobbit trilogy, much less the originals.

Spoiler:

I personally don't care for the arguments about identity politics or strong female leads that seem to infest every discussion about this film. Helm's daughter is at the root of the conflict so obviously she's going to be a bigger presence when the story is blown up to a feature length. She's absolutely central to the film, if that's a problem then there's no getting away from it.
None of the fights felt especially epic. The biggest fight looked like 20 riders facing off against 50 homeless-looking guys with 3 elephants. There is nothing like the OG Helms Deep or Pelennor Fields here. It doesn't help that said fight is at night-time, meaning I struggled to see much of anything going on. Felt very much like the Battle of Winterfell. Other major fight scenes were completely buried under snow effects.
It's an animated film and there's a fair amount of backflips, super-jumps and general anime fan antics. Plus the obligatory Legolas-from-Temu where a guy takes a Mumak solo.
In fact there's a lot of scenes that felt awfully like a budget homage to the originals. Helm has some dialogue that is uncomfortably close to Theoden during the Ride of the Rohirrim and the super siege weapon feels like Grond if they bought it from Wish, since it was apparently destroyed by a single defender throwing a single fire bomb without much trouble.
I don't really understand why the Watcher was there, especially since everyone seemed to know it was there. I found its attack against the Mumak unintentionally hilarious. I also don't really understand why Hera was kidnapped only to immediately escape. There's a lot of scenes that felt either unnecessary or actively harmful to the story.
I like how the Snow Troll seemed to be a big thing in the GW previews considered it is completely obliterated about 3 minutes after it's introduced. It had a shorter shelf life than Smaug in BoFA.
Seeing Saruman was fun, but seeing Christopher Lee in the credits was ghoulish. I assume AI is to blame here. Again it comes back to blatantly riding on the coat tails of the original films to try and hook you with nostalgia.

My favourite dialogue was between Hera and Helm: "You can't pull apart his army one man at a time."
"Mmm, I can try."

Apparently Cineworld think a medium popcorn should cost £6.80 now. Peter Jackson was also gracious enough to pay for 40% of our tickets which took some of the sting out of it. Fortunately there were maybe 10 other people in the room so we didn't have to worry about distractions.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2024/12/13 23:44:30


WarOne wrote:
At the very peak of his power, Mat Ward stood at the top echelons of the GW hierarchy, second only to Satan in terms of personal power within the company.
 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka





Tom is nowhere to be seen, so you're safe.

Spoiler:
As for "girl power" I'd be far more concerned with her father's constant "Chuck Norris" meme antics. At least Hera can say she naturally inherit's his supernatural power, but its never explained where Helm himself get's his Incredible Hulk-like powers. Is he supposed to be a living demi-god or something?

When he finally dies I nearly yelled out "Oh please! Do shut up!", as it really looked like an Old Spice sketch.

The most Hera does in the film is defeat Wulf with a shield slammed into his throat. Its at least far more believeable than that girl from Prey besting the Predator in melee combat.


This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2024/12/14 00:39:51


Casual gaming, mostly solo-coop these days.

 
   
Made in de
Joined the Military for Authentic Experience






Nuremberg

I've booked for this evening. My expectations are fairly low, but I am interested in seeing what they've done. And I was in the market for an evening off.

I hope I won't regret spending it on this!

   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka





Let us know how you get on.

Casual gaming, mostly solo-coop these days.

 
   
Made in gb
RogueSangre



West Sussex, UK

Mozzamanx wrote:
I saw this tonight. I'd say it met my expectations, albeit after a few days of reading some extremely doom-laden reviews.
I'll spoiler my thoughts for anyone interested, but in brief I'd say it was a reasonably entertaining fan-fiction taking some extreme liberties with a beloved brand to get you through the door. It's an anime that just about exists in Middle Earth, but it's not remotely in the same league as the big films and it shouldn't be considered as part of the same setting.
I think rebranding MESBG to try and ride the hype-train is going to prove a very poor decision because I can't imagine this film holding up as well as the Hobbit trilogy, much less the originals.

Spoiler:

I personally don't care for the arguments about identity politics or strong female leads that seem to infest every discussion about this film. Helm's daughter is at the root of the conflict so obviously she's going to be a bigger presence when the story is blown up to a feature length. She's absolutely central to the film, if that's a problem then there's no getting away from it.
None of the fights felt especially epic. The biggest fight looked like 20 riders facing off against 50 homeless-looking guys with 3 elephants. There is nothing like the OG Helms Deep or Pelennor Fields here. It doesn't help that said fight is at night-time, meaning I struggled to see much of anything going on. Felt very much like the Battle of Winterfell. Other major fight scenes were completely buried under snow effects.
It's an animated film and there's a fair amount of backflips, super-jumps and general anime fan antics. Plus the obligatory Legolas-from-Temu where a guy takes a Mumak solo.
In fact there's a lot of scenes that felt awfully like a budget homage to the originals. Helm has some dialogue that is uncomfortably close to Theoden during the Ride of the Rohirrim and the super siege weapon feels like Grond if they bought it from Wish, since it was apparently destroyed by a single defender throwing a single fire bomb without much trouble.
I don't really understand why the Watcher was there, especially since everyone seemed to know it was there. I found its attack against the Mumak unintentionally hilarious. I also don't really understand why Hera was kidnapped only to immediately escape. There's a lot of scenes that felt either unnecessary or actively harmful to the story.
I like how the Snow Troll seemed to be a big thing in the GW previews considered it is completely obliterated about 3 minutes after it's introduced. It had a shorter shelf life than Smaug in BoFA.
Seeing Saruman was fun, but seeing Christopher Lee in the credits was ghoulish. I assume AI is to blame here. Again it comes back to blatantly riding on the coat tails of the original films to try and hook you with nostalgia.

My favourite dialogue was between Hera and Helm: "You can't pull apart his army one man at a time."
"Mmm, I can try."

Apparently Cineworld think a medium popcorn should cost £6.80 now. Peter Jackson was also gracious enough to pay for 40% of our tickets which took some of the sting out of it. Fortunately there were maybe 10 other people in the room so we didn't have to worry about distractions.



Spoiler:
The Christopher Lee dialogue was taken from recorded line readings from The Hobbit. He had always said he wanted to do more Middle-Earth movies so his family gave them permission to include him within this movie.
   
Made in de
Joined the Military for Authentic Experience






Nuremberg

So I'm just back from seeing it. I reckon it was pretty okay, I enjoyed myself watching it. It is fan fiction, but I'd say it's alright as far as fan fiction goes, and if you can accept the major change to make Helm's daughter a bad ass action heroine then you'll probably enjoy the rest. If you can't get past that, there's no chance you will enjoy this film.

My main concern with the idea of making Hera a major character like this (aside from the fact that it is obviously a change to source material I really love) is that often when something like this is done, it's done by making other characters less to make the inserted character cooler. I'm happy to say imo this film doesn't fall into that trap. I felt that Helm Hammerhand is given full justice, as are his sons and Frealaf. You could argue Frealaf is lessened by the film, but I think he's treated quite fairly.

I liked that. I hate in the Jackson films that a lot of characters are coarsened or lessened by the adaptation.

I liked it better than the Hobbit films in that sense, for sure. I am probably also biased a little because I have a daughter who I'd like to share my love of Middle Earth with in the future, and I can imagine a 10 year old girl really enjoying a Middle Earth story with a girl as protagonist. Maybe I'm wrong there, but I think I've seen this sort of thing done much worse in other places. I thought the script mostly held up, a couple of lines that don't work but overall quite good.

I will say though, Hera's character design is quite poor. She's already an insert, but the difference in her style of dress compared to every other Rohan character makes her seem like she was dropped in from a different anime entirely. A poor choice imo, took me out of the film more than once.

And on that production side of things, it's fair to say you can tell this was made on the cheap. The facial animation in particular is poor, and I think there are many places where characters pause to think or react, and their faces are frozen and it doesn't look great. Likewise in a film where there's gonna be loads of people riding around on horses you've really got to get the horses right and I think none of the horse running animations look that great. There are a couple of scenes where the animation borders on the comical unfortunately.

Lastly, dark skinned dunlendings doesn't sit that well with me. I think they should be more Celtic, with dark hair but pale skin, and that's how I always imagined them.

But I always loved the little bit about Helm Hammerhand in the appendices, and I wished for a book about it. Well, I got an anime, which I definitely did not expect, and it was better than I expected it to be. So I'm happy enough.

Edit to add: And for the record I really hated RoP because it was really boring and badly written imo. I think Fellowship of the Ring is the best Jackson film and Unexpected Journey is the only tolerable Hobbit film.


This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2024/12/15 22:11:28


   
Made in us
Servoarm Flailing Magos






On the Surface of the Sun aka Florida in the Summer.

I've decided to wait for the RiffTrax version.

 BorderCountess wrote:
Just because you're doing something right doesn't necessarily mean you know what you're doing...
CLICK HERE --> Mechanicus Knight House: Mine!
 Ahtman wrote:
Lathe Biosas is Dakka's Armond White.
 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka





Steady on ol'chap, its not THAT bad.

It does have its faults, but the PJ movies aren't exactly perfect neither...


Oh, speaking of Rifftrax...

Spoiler:
"UP YOURS PENDRAGON!!!"

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2024/12/16 00:08:34


Casual gaming, mostly solo-coop these days.

 
   
Made in de
Joined the Military for Authentic Experience






Nuremberg

I know I went on a lot in my post above, but I've more to say that is spoilery.

Spoiler:
Frealaf not being the one to kill Wulf is the biggest actual change to the events as described in the books. I think it's acceptable because Frealaf is shown as being courageous, noble and smart in every scene he is in. You definitely get the idea he's going to be a great king, and that he's probably the better choice for king over Hera. Being able to kill a guy isn't the most important trait in a king, and I think Helm failing despite being an unstoppable killing machine reinforces that.

The Watcher in the Water scene I would cut entirely. You could do the same damn thing with just leading the elephant into a bog, no need for the bog to have a monster in it. I think it's taking liberties a bit too far - the Watcher in the Water being a "known" thing is not really in line with the text of the books. Also, the scene was really goofy, poorly animated and had poor design for the Watcher. It's probably one of the weakest scenes in the film.

Likewise Helm's battle to the death is cool, but the scene where he's frozen in place on the causeway afterward lands on the goofy side. It looked like a rush job, taking a still frame of him and applying ice effects to it, and didn't work. He also seemed to manifest his hammer out of nowhere, and he's frozen brandishing it and screaming like he was flash frozen which is...just a weird choice. I think the slow pan and voice over is crazy here and if I'd made something like that I wouldn't want much focus on it.

I thought the Battle of Edoras overall worked well. I thought it was cool to see the Mumakil in a smaller battle like living siege engines. More budget would have made it even better but it was alright.

Hera's outfit was really weird. No one else in Rohan looks or dresses like her. It wasn't like it was really revealing or something, but it was just really not the style of anything else in the whole film. I'd have liked it way more if she was just in the clothes she wore in the first scene instead, or just some basic chainmail or whatever. I didn't find her too annoying although she is obviously an insert and is obviously supposed to be bad ass. That's fine. She's not obnoxious, she listens to others and only argues with her dad that she could be a messanger because she's a fast rider - reasonable I think. She's brave and kind and smart, and I think it's nice that a little girl watching that might be excited or inspired by her. Helm is still an unstoppable superman by comparison, both of her brothers are shown in a purely positive light and are both very brave (one is more competent than the other but it's not shown in a humiliating way, more like it's not great that an artist is sent to war). Frealaf likewise is very brave and competent and every statement he makes is correct - if Helm had listened to him at a critical point they would have had no issues at all.

Olwyn is another insert but a really fun one. Combat Nanny is actually a very fun character and she's kinda understated and wry in a fun way. The whole "shieldmaidens" bit was a bit overdone but it only comes up a few times and I'm willing to forgive it. But it's probably the script change that I dislike the most - I think just having it be possible that there are shieldmaidens without there being a legendary order of shieldmaidens is better.

I liked that General Targ is not too bad a guy and is broadly pretty sensible. I thought overall that the film had a fair bit of humanity and decency in that way, and got across some of the moral messages I associate with Tolkien really well.

There are also some beautiful homages to the Jackson films in some of the still backgrounds, and I think that was nicely done. Shame the animation happening against those backgrounds doesn't live up to the same standard.

If you like the Jackson films I think there are far more egregious changes to the source material there than anywhere in this story, aided by the fact that the source material is so sparse here so there's more wiggle room. Stuff like "Go home Sam", Faramir talking the Hobbits to Osgilliath, the treatment of Denethor and Theoden, Aragorn beheading the Mouth of Sauron, Elves at Helm's Deep, the Army of the Dead at Pelennor and the character assassination of Frodo are much worse especially when taken together than the addition of Hera to this story imo.


   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka





More to say have you, Master Qui'Gon?

Casual gaming, mostly solo-coop these days.

 
   
Made in de
Joined the Military for Authentic Experience






Nuremberg

Well, it looks like this is absolutely bombing in every country.

I'm not surprised, although I liked the film well enough, because I was super skeptical going into it. So a lot of people just won't bother. LOTR is my favourite book and I've been steadily in love with it for ages, so I always give LOTR stuff a chance (bar Shadow of War, which I could tell would make me really angry just by reading about it). And I nearly didn't go to see it in the cinema. I watched all of the first season of ROP to make sure it was as bad as I initially thought, and I was still hesitating on this based on how poor the trailer looked for it, with obviously cheap animation and the way they made it look like they deviated from the story more than they actually did.

I'm not sure, had they invested more in the visuals, would they have made more money? I think a bit more, but obviously it would have cost a lot more too. I think ultimately it was a flawed premise for an adaptation - adapting a couple of pages from the appendix isn't going to get even hardcore fans THAT excited, and altering it in the way they did was obviously going to be polarising even at that.

Sad news for GW and all MESBG fans, the Hobbit movies did much better than this but didn't do super well for GW (though I blame the super high prices they charged for those minis - the minis themselves were often pretty lovely). And they gave many more things to expand the game with. This movie has nothing new in it really and could already have been represented in the game really easily with existing profiles.

I'm going to commit heresy and say that what I'd want is a better adaptation of the books. Jackson's trilogy is incredible especially for the production and design, but I think the script is poor in places and they made certain choices to change characters in ways I just find intolerable (particularly Frodo). I'll probably never get that, but at least I've got the books.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2024/12/20 08:39:33


   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut






Don't see how it's sad news for GW as the new starter box seems to have sold through in most places.
   
Made in gb
Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






It’s something of a Catch 22 of licensing.

If GW did expand the license to this (not sure we know either way there), then its cost them a bit of money beyond their usual overhead.

But, if GW didn’t do that? Someone else would’ve nabbed the license, and GW wouldn’t have got anything.

What I think we can say is that the license now what, nearly 25 years long? Maybe longer, depending on when they started work. And it’s been 21 years since Return of the King. If it wasn’t a profitable line? I don’t think they’d still be producing it over their own stuff.

Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?

Hey look! It’s my 2025 Hobby Log/Blog/Project/Whatevs 
   
Made in de
Joined the Military for Authentic Experience






Nuremberg

I don't doubt they'll be making a profit on the products at the prices they charge, but I more meant that I expect GW would be hoping the new film would drive a lot of interest but it seems like hardly anyone is watching it. Shame.

   
 
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