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That's fair Insaniak- thanks for reminding me about that context.

I still think that designers should have seen the impracticality of terrain and vehicles at 54mm, but you are correct about the context, and it should allow me to be kinder to GW and at least partially forgive them for what a still view as a tragic mistake.

In an alternate universe where Inquisitor had been a 40k scale game, it is likely that the Inquisition would have received more effective support through many editions of the game that did not receive as much support as they needed.

If not forgive, at least understand how the mistake was made.

From the designer notes in the back of the rulebook it was clear it was a deliberate choice, referencing older proto wargames like gun duel westerns etc and the game being built art and theme forward. Gav's commentary on his website suggests it was a deliberate choice:
http://gavthorpe.co.uk/games/inquisitor/

It always seemed to me to be an art project more than a game project. When a GM is used and scenarios are player created, the concept of balance becomes a lot less binary, so it was never going to be a 'game' in the way most 40k players consider it. I remember the designer interviews from WD talking about how much they looked forward to working in the scale to allow for more dynamic models, greater details and realism. They were sculptures first and gaming pieces second. There's no reason 40k needs to be the scale it is either, game pieces are all abstract.

The rules themselves were really just a PVP RPG that had more detailed miniatures and boards than the average DND grid.

With the advent of JoyToy you could quite easily recreate it to some degree with more practical figures.


Totally get the impracticality of the 54mm scale for people who were already heavily invested in 32mm, but I don't believe they considered that a problem but a feature - a high investment game of art and creativity. As 40k is to checkers, inquisitor is to 40k. The average checkers player might find 40k too intimidating and impractical to get into due to the additional materials you needed and all the space required, when checkers comes in a single easily storable box. Similarly inquisitor was another step up in terms of investment and complexity, but again it was pretty clearly intentional. That it didn't take the world by storm or become their next core game I don't believe made that a failure. I'm sure they would have loved to sell more of it, but the scale was part of the package of the game. It created a noticeably different play style and experience in comparison to 40k. It made each piece valuable in a way that 20 plastic guardsmen aren't, it created some of the greatest conversions ever produced in the 40k setting and allowed for theme to drip from every model. Even modern 40k plastics are only just getting to the detail levels inquisitor models had.

Although comparing the new Coteaz to the similarly designed Tyrus from inquisitor leaves a lot to be desired (Tyrus wasn't one of the better sculpts from Inquistor, but the level of detail and theme in his armour and equipment is still pretty unique in comparison to nappypants McPlainboi).

Inquisitor was almost like it was purely made for Blanchitsu to have a scale and podium to present its most evocative and crazy ideas, while also being able to shoot things in the face.

Maybe things have changed since the 2000's but i swear that back in the day baseline humans could wear Power Armour without needing to get black carapace implants

I should have stated that I'm a biochemist, I know more about the human body chemistry and engineering than most do at GW and here. When I say something that's not 40k, you can expect that it's backed up by science. I probably fill in the 40k gaps of knowledge with the most logical conclusion.

The_Pilot wrote:I looked it up on google, I can’t actually find a consensus that custodes have a black carapace (though hey, it’s not like we get much details on anything for how they’re made), with some saying the black carapace is the 19th organ that makes up the geneseed. Some stuff about how the custodes see the black carapace as a crude way of doing connectivity. While I 100% believe the custodes probably have a black carapace analogy but better, it also shows that the black carapace is not required to use power armor. I don’t know what this actually contributes but I wrote this so yea :/

Yes, that's why I said whatever Custodes use a black carapace analogue. I know inquisitors and other individuals use power armor, but they can't use it like Marines can, and their armor is much less cumbersome. Custodes and Marines have power armor interfaces implanted into them at a young age. The AS and SoS aren't said to be gene-crafted, so their ability to use armor at the level Custodes and Marines do is breaking lore.

My big question was how SoB had something that is on the level of a Dreadknight (officially cancelled for players outside Europe, no longer listed on GW's US site, but still is on the UK site) and I didn't know they've been retconned to have power armor interfaces they get as adults that are just as good as the Marines'.

Hellebore wrote:Custodes also don't use marine organs or have any additions, they're genetically engineered from childhood. So their means of using their armour is going to be entirely different.

Not really, they need the armor to connect to their nervous system. Saying Custodes are individually gene-crafted is somewhat okay, but that doesn't make much sense since not all make it through the process. So the ones that don't make it must not meet a certain qualification. Their determination or strength of mind shouldn't come into play, as they're typically infants.

Their gene-crafting could result in them getting individually customized organs, but they are to get their abilities to a certain, similar level. Growing the new organs inside their bodies and not going through much surgery besides the power armor interface ports.


I don't think the black carapace is all that necessary, just a port at the base of their necks. I would say into their skulls like The Matrix headjack, but some don't wear helmets, so those who don't would need a cable from the power armor into their skulls. This could be easily severed and render the power armor immobilized; the connection should need to be protected using the armor. So the signal should go from their brains, down their spine, through the port interface, into the armor controlling it. The human nervous system tops out at 120 m/s, while electrical signals are pretty much instantaneous. So it would be faster to have all the interactions through the base of the neck. The body ports aren't really necessary and would only be useful with my system. As the signals would go through their power armor, then control the muscles, increasing their reaction times. Rather than through the nervous system to the muscles, then to the power armor.

I’m not sure Sisters of Silence having suits of Power Armour roughly as responsive as those linked to a Black Carpace is necessarily lore breaking.

Again, when we go back to the beginning? The Astartes were designed for mass production. More advanced than Thunder Warriors, but less refined and cost/labour intensive than Custards.

The nascent Legions were a salvage job after the abduction of the Primarchs, and even without that, were intended to be produced in as high a number as arms and armour supplies would permit.

The Black Carapace is of course an important part, allowing an Astartes to fully interface with his armour, turning it into an instantly responsive second skin.

But, the mass production suitable thing doesn’t rule out that the Power Armour of the Sisters of Silence, a far smaller and stupidly specialised organisation, isn’t equipped with more advanced Power Armour. Just that without a Black Carapace equivalent, it’s much harder to produce in the numbers the Legions would be needing,

Sorry but can the OP provide any evidence whatsoever that a Sister has the same level of ability in Power Armour that an Astartes does?

A "loretuber" isn't necessarily a good source god knows there's a boat load out there that add their own thoughts and opinions in which people eat up as gospel because they're a "loretuber".
Heck I once watched a Vraks video where the narrator said they couldn't imagine how scared the Krieg Guardsmen were.
Scared. Kriegers.

Again, to stick with the car analogy?

A military spec Humvee here serves as our Astartes. Easily produced, rugged and adaptable.

But compare to say, the Presidential Motorcade and Pope Mobile. Neither are made from a vehicle of military origin, but both arguably have greater resilience, as their passengers are simply too valuable to risk with anything but the very best. There? Potentially Sisters of Silence Power Armour.

You could presume a sister/inquisitor has 10 nerve-jacks individually implanted, a space marine has 100 grown with the carapace, and a custard has 100 individually implanted.

Sisters aren't as fast marines because they used to be I3 rather than I4, and they have less WS, so I guess that checks out. It doesn't affect the degree of protection (3+) just reaction times, which now lack a clear analogue with Initiative removed.

Also I would consider playing Inquisitor in 28mm but never 54mm. I wonder if anyone would still be playing Kill Team or Necromunda if it was 54mm?

 Orkeosaurus wrote:


Also I would consider playing Inquisitor in 28mm but never 54mm. I wonder if anyone would still be playing Kill Team or Necromunda if it was 54mm?

No one will touch 54mm... for now.

Just give it 10 years, and size creep will have Ultra-Tactica-Primaris Space Marines at 54mm.

How many wounds will they have?

I am just loving all of these car analogies. But, why is the definition of "better" always having more automated crap?

No, no. The best, most "sophisticated" car has:

A carbureted, big block V8. Manual transmission. Smoker's windows. And the high/low beam switch is on the floor board.

If it's a truck? Add sliding rear glass and lock in/out hubs. And your "full size" is the same size as current "midsized" trucks. And you can still get real small trucks.

There. Old man rant (TM) over. You kids have fun.

To represent all the bells and doohickys and thingamies and dooberries in Astartes power armour, which does more than just offer lots of protectyness to the wearer.

Also, I love my autopark function. I suck at parallel parking, so it’s incredibly welcome.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
I am just loving all of these car analogies. But, why is the definition of "better" always having more automated crap?

No, no. The best, most "sophisticated" car has:

A carbureted, big block V8. Manual transmission. Smoker's windows. And the high/low beam switch is on the floor board.

If it's a truck? Add sliding rear glass and lock in/out hubs. And your "full size" is the same size as current "midsized" trucks. And you can still get real small trucks.

There. Old man rant (TM) over. You kids have fun.

That would be Thunder Warrior power armor.

 Orkeosaurus wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
I am just loving all of these car analogies. But, why is the definition of "better" always having more automated crap?

No, no. The best, most "sophisticated" car has:

A carbureted, big block V8. Manual transmission. Smoker's windows. And the high/low beam switch is on the floor board.

If it's a truck? Add sliding rear glass and lock in/out hubs. And your "full size" is the same size as current "midsized" trucks. And you can still get real small trucks.

There. Old man rant (TM) over. You kids have fun.

That would be Thunder Warrior power armor.

Cool. Can we get Thunder Warrior minis now?

 Orkeosaurus wrote:
How many wounds will they have?

34 seems like a nice round number.

Orks will be upped to 3 wounds until a quarterly update puts them back down to a more manageable 1.

 Gert wrote:
Sorry but can the OP provide any evidence whatsoever that a Sister has the same level of ability in Power Armour that an Astartes does?

A "loretuber" isn't necessarily a good source god knows there's a boat load out there that add their own thoughts and opinions in which people eat up as gospel because they're a "loretuber".
Heck I once watched a Vraks video where the narrator said they couldn't imagine how scared the Krieg Guardsmen were.
Scared. Kriegers.

I can't, I haven't read every book. Luetin09 being one of the most popular loretubers I was going off his comment being correct (he's not when he talks science). You're saying the Kriegsmen are incapable of being scared sounds just as ludicrous as you say my comment is. Being scared keeps you alive and fighting; not being scared would require much conditioning for them to not run into battle with no strategy.


Sorry for not many responses (not for not using a car analogy), depression is really bad right now.


I've never heard about SoS being modified; they certainly don't look like it, and if they were, they wouldn't be as small as they are and have a feminine figure. I still don't understand why they don't use male blanks for Custodes.

Always worth keeping in mind Power Armour is a category, just like Carapace and Mesh. It’s not a single thing, just a general description of any armour with an in-built/portable dedicated power supply, and an internal armature which ensures the wearer isn’t encumbered by its weight.

So, in theory? Something like a rig worn by industrial workers that someone has gamely welded armour plating to could be described as a form of Power Armour. As can, again in a pinch, the suits Terminator Armour was originally developed from.

Likewise, Mesh is more a descriptive of how the armour works. Chainmail is a very basic, very primitive Mesh armour, for example. The higher the grade and more advanced the materials and manufacture, the finer the mesh and presumably to a greater or lesser degree the greater the protection.

Flak is much the same - a broad, descriptive category, rather than a single set thing.

 NorthernXY wrote:

I can't, I haven't read every book. Luetin09 being one of the most popular loretubers I was going off his comment being correct (he's not when he talks science). You're saying the Kriegsmen are incapable of being scared sounds just as ludicrous as you say my comment is. Being scared keeps you alive and fighting; not being scared would require much conditioning for them to not run into battle with no strategy.

Krieg Regiments have Commissars, not to shoot cowards or deserters, but to keep them from doing suicidal charges and actively seeking death in the enemy's guns. The novel Dead Men Walking has them fight the Necrons and the officers of the Regiment are (for lack of a better term) excited to have such an insane enemy that doesn't feel fear and doesn't care about casualties.

But what's very important to remember is not to believe everything a Loretuber says, a lot of them just read verbatim from the 40k Wiki, which is somehow less lore accurate than the 4chan articles from back in day.