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agnosto wrote:

Melissia wrote:

SkaerKrow wrote:Wow, those are hideous.

Wait, it's Ogre Kingdoms, isn't hideous the entire point?

Bingo! We have a winner.

Personally, the models are fine to me, except the cav looks underfed and I actually like the old scraplauncher a bit more than the new one...



VS.



Maybe it's the giant horns that just aren't doing it for me.

Agreed, i dont like the big horns or the faux elastic mechanism. Looks cheesy.

I wonder how the those giant horns would look on a Stonetusk.

An explanation then...

The Ogres on those cat things.
The riding position seems way too high, if they were placed in a typical riding position like on a horse, I would think better of the model.

The big tusked beast.
I quite like this model, reminds me of those huge beasts roaming round in Northrend in wow.

New scraplauncher and cannon.
I much prefer the old scrap launcher, especially the beast that pulls it.
The cannon is just rediculous. I like the idea, but not the execution.

The mammoth thing.
Great looking beast, but I'm not a fan of the riders. The sculpts of their bodies look like they are sat in an unnatural position.

Well that's my two cents. I'm standing by my verdict on these new models.

Puscifer wrote:
The big tusked beast.
I quite like this model, reminds me of those huge beasts roaming round in Northrend in wow.

I just want to see the models up close at this point. The models are just at that point where you can see details, but not precisely.

^^ Love. I think that comic is to blame for my PA obsession.

I just hope from the look of these new monsters lately, that whenever they do lizardmen, we get a chaos war mammoth sized thunder lizard

Love the new ogre stuff (except the sabretooth riders)

Sanjay

I think with those two pictures next to each other, like that, people can really see the new heights of ridiculous GW has reached with the new range.

I'm not saying I stand on one side of the wall or the other but you can see what people mean when they say GW is taking a lot of inspiration from blizzard and the newer stuff is cartoony too much so for some.

BTW there are some new rumours on Warseer ( http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=312627&page=23 (last 3-4 pages), but i only have the time to post one of them, maybe someone else has more time:

Deadhorse wrote:Ah heck, I'll add some stuff I heard:

Base cost of an ogre bull divides by 10 well. Equipment options are very cheap, like a point or two. Gut plate doesn't exist, so you're looking at a 5+ save/6+ward at best.

The big beasties you're curious about are so-so resilient. Tough as a dragon, but the best asv gives you a 50% chance of not getting poisoned by a skink shot, and it is only available on the monster that looks like it has a thick skull.

Delicious little tidbits?
There is a very reliable way to make opponents Always Strike Last.
All ogres seem cheaper. Slightly cheaper or nearly a third cheaper - the elites have a much lower cost per model.
Maneaters got weird rules that I wouldn't believe if I read them on a rumour forum.
Leadbelchers are good now. I think you can build a really, really shooty ogre army.

Cheaper Ogres? Time to run hordes!

kenshin620 wrote:Cheaper Ogres? Time to run hordes!

Even if they are cheaper, it probably still won't be worth it to run the 18 model units you would need to benefit. Besides that, I think most opponents would forego the horde formation and run standard frontage of 5 in order to prevent the unit from gaining its full attacks.

kenshin620 wrote:Cheaper Ogres? Time to run hordes!

How many more do I need? (10 Leadbelchers not shown due to being stripped at the time)

Whats the point of running horde ogres if you only have enough for 2 ranks? Ogres get their full attacks in the second rank either way...

From Warseer, via the ever suave Mr. Darnok

Magic:
Ogre Magic has been reworked and spellcasting now works the same way as for all wizards. Spells are pretty much similar to what they used to be, except they last until next magic phase and are not RIP. Lore attribute is bloodgruel - on 2+ mage gains 1 wound and +1 to cast for his next spell, on a 1 takes an S6 hit.
Ogre mages can take great maw, death, heavens and beasts magic.
New mage model is the firebelly, who uses lore of fire, costs araound a fifth more than an empire cannon, can be upgraded to lvl 2 for the standard price of a wizard upgrade, can take a great weapon or extra hand weapon and has S4 breath attack, flaming attacks and 4+ ward vs fire.

Magic items and big names:
Big names still there and come out of magic item allowance. Didn't get changed that much from what you currently have. Best one is probably giantbreaker - doesn't require giant in the army - for the cost of dispel scroll model can't refuse challenges or flee but gets +1S.
Magic items are few and generally meh compared with common items. Thundermace basically gives you one thundercrush attack just like the sphinx has for a ton of points. Most interesting item is hellheart, which causes a miscast in all enemy mages within 5xD6" at the beginning of enemy magic phase - one use only, costs 2 scrolls.

Core units now include ironguts at five points less than they used to be, and with all command models costed at +10 points (which is same across the book).
You can get 40 gnoblars for the cost of one dark elf sorceress, and they come with throwing weapons attached and no prerequisites.

Special units got a lot of changes, leadbelchers will now fire D6 shots every turn, no misfires, and are move and fire with no penalty for moving. They cost one point less than Yhetees, which cost one point less than talisman of preservation.

Maneaters are half an empire cannon in points, and basically choose two special rules (you cannot chose the same special rule for two units) from a group of 8 - including poisoned attacks, sniper, stubborn, swiftride, strider, vanguard, itp, scout.

Mournfang cavalry is the new heavy cav, with a lot of options (potentially a 2+ armour save), tons of attacks and a price tag that is in the vicinity of a bloodcrusher, depending on what armour/weapons you take. 3 wounds, D3 impact hits and a total of 7 attacks per model make them somewhat fearsome.

Gorger is now special and gets a bit more expensive, but loses the rule by which it had to end movement closer to an enemy unit. It does have frenzy, unbreakable, killing blow and ambusher special rules.

Rare
Scrapalauncher is rare, slightly cheaper I think and similar to what it does now (S3 KB catapult)
Ironblaster is an empire cannon with horrible fluff and a pretty unpleasant misfire chart. It is nearly as expensive as a hydra, but has move and fire, S10 grapeshot and a special rule that allows you to roll two dice for bounce and chose the highest, even if one is a misfire.

The two mammoth-like critters are:
the stonehorn, which can have a mounted harpoon launcher (S6 D3 wounds 36" bolt thrower that doesn't penetrate ranks and is move and fire if mounted), 4+ armour save, does a lot of S6 impact hits on the charge, has dragon-like stats (but lower WS, Ld and initiative), M7, 4+ armour save and a special rule which halves the damage from all multiple-wound weapons that hit it.

and

the thundertusk, which is a support version of the above - has a mounted catapult that doesn't get hurt in any way by misfires, a harpoon and a 12" S6 KB weapon (chaintrap) - 3 weapons on its back, and gives all enemy models within 6" ASL. The tradeoff is - no impact hits and one less attack.

Both of these big beasties cost as much as around 5 wraiths.

A stonehorn can also be the mount for a hunter, which costs almost as much as a high elf prince.

Last but not least: the sabertusk. Special unit, 1-10 unit size. Each one has 3 S4 attacks, so aside from being the redirector of your dreams, it can sometimes work as a mage assassin. One costs slightly more than 4 halberdiers. T4 and two wounds.

They can't use general's leadership or battle standard re-roll, and their own LD is 4 - and can only be joined by a hunter - so I would say they will only come in two unit sizes - 1 or 10+hunter. This second option is not so bad - the unit will cost you some 350 points, but it has vanguard, swiftstride, and 30 S4 WS4 I4 attacks + whatever the hunter brings.

The Firebelly sounds interesting. I'll have to think about how I could make one more pirate-y.

And as was rumored, no more Gnoblar trappers. I am not looking forward to painting those 40 men units.

Wow, cool rules/rumors...

Breotan- I think you have enough (with the 10 not-pictured leadbelchers) to make a convincing force, although the Giant probably isn't that great (in any army, at least by itself, but it's fun).

So am I correct in that the name of the mounted ogres are "Mournfang cavalry" and the beasts without anything on them are "Sabertusks"?

It was obvious that like TK, the magic would be different. The attribute is very reminiscent though of old gut magic so thats cool. Shame on the magic items, whoever is doing them really needs to just use things from the old books!

Very interesting on the unit commands. Generally 8th edition books make them MORE expensive. In this case it actually makes them LESS. Pretty cool buff since it cost 50 points back then for a full command.

Sabertusks and Hunters still doesnt sound too convincing. Unless they changed up the hunter

I assume Slave Giant is still there, unchanged

From Warseer, originally -- I think == from the Ogre Stronghold forum

( apologies if this is not the case )

It seems there ism allegedly, a leaked copy of the book ..out there.... and information from that copy is finding its way out and onto the forums.


We'll throw in here the obligatory reminder that we cannot allow links/similar to file sharing sites and the like that provides copyrighted material etc etc yadda yadda. You all know the drill : be smart. Be Safe. Shop S-Mart..

anyway, info seems to be here :

http://www.ogrestronghold.com/forum/index.php?topic=19534.0

So what exactly changed with the new GW information policy?
There are still leaks, but the only official information source is OOP after less than 2 weeks.

Anyway, here more leaked art from the book:

Kroothawk wrote:So what exactly changed with the new GW information policy?
There are still leaks, but the only official information source is OOP after less than 2 weeks.

Ya know... I was wondering the same thing. It just seems like they didn't want WD going out early or maybe they wanted to give the WD staff a week long holiday and they fell behind or something... lol.

just noticed that the Battle force, and the Ironguts boxes seem to have been taken off the site.

also, on a personal note, images are just as much copy written as words, ergo, they should be taken down as well.
alternatively all information/links could be left up.
just thought I'd point out a bit of hypocrisy with the rules of the site.

OnDebit wrote:just noticed that the Battle force, and the Ironguts boxes seem to have been taken off the site.

They really should take the army book off the site. I mean, how crass do you have to be to sell a book that's going to be worthless in a month or so?

Kroothawk wrote:Anyway, here more leaked art from the book:

That Bretonnian Knight just got pwned.

I'd really like to see on-foot heroes in plastic, what killed me before is the sheer weight and size of the metal models and having to fork out over $60 for a tyrant and $40 for a single maneater. However the prospect of plastic yhetees should ease my rage for now - that is until I see them.

I am very happy.


disappointed that Rhinox arn't in the book(praying for a WD rerelease. it seems like thats in style now) but the Stonehorn makes up for it.

the Cannon thingy could have worked better. I will use my current cannon toting scraplaunchers instead(and have a proper scrappie in plastic)

the Cats are kinda meh. was hoping for rhinox. but if they hit as hard as they are rumored and look a little better from the side(I think the pic is at a bad angle) I will probably run them. or my Rhinox will be counts as Mournfangs.

Ehsteve wrote:I'd really like to see on-foot heroes in plastic, what killed me before is the sheer weight and size of the metal models and having to fork out over $60 for a tyrant and $40 for a single maneater. However the prospect of plastic yhetees should ease my rage for now - that is until I see them.

Here's what I use as my Tyrant:



And I loves it. Avatars of War; I found a discount retailer online that had it for $30 (USD). The quality of the model and casting was topnotch; the only gripe i have is the banners on his back and the tusks on his gut plate keep popping off but that's all my fault for being too rough with my models. I went hammer/iron fist and converted a bull into my BSB with the sword (cathayan long sword anyone?).

Really like the pieces of art shown. That Bretonnian going all rag-doll is excellent!

Any word on the ogre statlines and if they are changing them?

I was dissapointed when my Ushabti went from a 6 Str to a 4 Str and they cost marginally less for their trouble.

Ogres getting cheaper around the board means smaller tactical armies like my TK will have a hard time dealing with their increased numbers.

I guess what Im worried about is them taking ogres, amplifying their strengths, then killing off their weakness...High cost per model, low initiative in combat, and spellcasting vulnerability.

Seems they reduced points, can make enemies ASL, and can blow up mages on the first or second turn at a reliable range of 15 to 24 inches.

Stats are the same, cost drops. Bulls gain LA standard. ogre clubs go away.


Cost in gnoblars(current gnoblars anyway)

ogre bull naked = 15 gnoblars

irongut = 21.5 gnoblars

Ironfist = 1 gnoblar

That Knight is certainly Bantha Poodoo now.

Please remove if this violates some sort of rule (I dont think it does). Its a more in depth summary from someone who has the book (not me):

Magic:
Ogre Magic has been reworked and spellcasting now works the same way as for all wizards. Spells are pretty much similar to what they used to be, except they last until next magic phase and are not RIP.
Lore attribute is bloodgruel - on 2+ mage gains 1 wound and +1 to cast for his next spell, on a 1 takes an S6 hit.

the signature spell grants stubborn to a unit within 12"/18" (the latter is presumably on a boosted casting)

As for other magic, 2d6 2s no save missile, augment giving target +1t or all units wihin 12" +1t with higher roll, panic test spell to all enemy units 18/36", regeneration to unit/all units within 12" with higher roll, small template spell ini test needed if passed 3s hit if not 7s hit d6 wounds it can be changed to large template with higher roll needed

Ogre mages can take great maw, death, heavens and beasts magic.

New mage model is the firebelly, who uses lore of fire, can be upgraded to lvl 2 for the standard price of a wizard upgrade, can take a great weapon or extra hand weapon and has S4 breath attack, flaming attacks and 4+ ward vs fire.

Magic items and big names:
Big names still there and come out of magic item allowance. Didn't get changed that much from what you currently have. Best one is probably giantbreaker - doesn't require giant in the army - for the cost of dispel scroll model can't refuse challenges or flee but gets +1S.

Magic items are few and generally meh compared with common items. Most interesting item is hellheart, which causes a miscast in all enemy mages within 5xD6" at the beginning of enemy magic phase - one use only, costs 2 scrolls.

magic weapons Thundermace (asl, +2s 2h weapon), or thundercrush attack instead, small template model in the centre hit with 9s d3 wound, rest hit with 3s.

Siegebreaker (asl, +2s 2h weapon) roll to hit against ini or siegbreaker attack d6 hits with str equal to height of the building up to 10.

magic standards Rune maw rules i think are the same as in last book (i dont see its max range use but i think this will be fqed),

Dragonhide banner same stats as in last book + can be used as breath weapon with 3s.

Core:
Core units now include ironguts at 43 points, and with all command models costed at +10 points (which is same across the book).

Special:
Special units got a lot of changes, leadbelchers will now fire D6 shots every turn, no misfires, and are move and fire with no penalty for moving.

Sabertusk. Special unit, 1-10 unit size. Each one has 3 S4 attacks, so aside from being the redirector of your dreams, it can sometimes work as a mage assassin. One costs slightly more than 4 halberdiers. T4 and two wounds.

They can't use general's leadership or battle standard re-roll, and their own LD is 4 - and can only be joined by a hunter - so I would say they will only come in two unit sizes - 1 or 10+hunter. This second option is not so bad - the unit will cost you some 350 points, but it has vanguard, swiftstride, and 30 S4 WS4 I4 attacks + whatever the hunter brings.

Maneaters basically choose two special rules (you cannot chose the same special rule for two units) from a group of 8 - including poisoned attacks, sniper, stubborn, swiftride, strider, vanguard, itp, scout.

Mournfang cavalry is the new heavy cav, with a lot of options (potentially a 2+ armour save), tons of attacks and a price tag that is in the vicinity of a bloodcrusher, depending on what armour/weapons you take. 3 wounds, D3 impact hits and a total of 7 attacks per model make them somewhat fearsome.

Gorger is now special and gets a bit more expensive, but loses the rule by which it had to end movement closer to an enemy unit. It does have frenzy, unbreakable, killing blow and ambusher special rules.

Rare
Scrapalauncher is rare and similar to what it does now (S3 KB catapult)

Ironblaster is an empire cannon with horrible fluff and a pretty unpleasant misfire chart. S10 grapeshot and a special rule that allows you to roll two dice for bounce and chose the highest, even if one is a misfire.

The two mammoth-like critters are:
the stonehorn, which can have a mounted harpoon launcher (S6 D3 wounds 36" bolt thrower that doesn't penetrate ranks and is move and fire if mounted), 4+ armour save, does a lot of S6 impact hits on the charge, has dragon-like stats (but lower WS, Ld and initiative), M7, 4+ armour save and a special rule which halves the damage from all multiple-wound weapons that hit it.

and

the thundertusk, which is a support version of the above - has a mounted catapult that doesn't get hurt in any way by misfires, a harpoon and a 12" S6 KB weapon (chaintrap) - 3 weapons on its back, and gives all enemy models within 6" ASL. The tradeoff is - no impact hits and one less attack.

A stonehorn can also be the mount for a hunter.


Additional:
clubs are hand weapons now

no info about needing 6" to charge but when calculating charge range if you roll 10 or more there is d3 impacts rather than 1

Giant is now stubborn!

if stonehorn makes sucesfull charge he makes 3d3 impacts(instead of his normal attacks) +1 for each dice if charge roll was higher than 10.

Trappers is an upgrade for normal gnobbies @25pts it makes every model in a unit that charges them take a dangerous terrain test.

Named Characters:
Golfgag is a hero with 5a he can take 2d6x10p magic items, if golfgag joins maneaters they have always stubborn and vanguard rules from been there done that special rule.

Bragg is 4a hero with heroic killing blow rule in challenges if he slays challenger enemy unit he was in is disrupted for the rest of the turn

Wait, what?
Golfgag gets 2d6x10 pts worth of magic items? How the F%$^ is THAT supposed to work? EVER?!?

Otherwise that looks like a list of balanced and strong, which forces me to call shenanigans.