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IT is the only thing that fits, but Casey Hudson and the guy who wrote the ending with him may be stupid enough to have really intended this to be the true ending.

Still doesn't explain the oily shadows in the dreams...everything points to Shepard being indoctrinated.

Amaya wrote:
Still doesn't explain the oily shadows in the dreams...everything points to Shepard being indoctrinated.

I assumed that the shadows were all the people that were dead/failed, they /do/ talk to you with voices of the dead after crewmen die.

You're not aware that in ME1 the Rachni Queen specifically mentions oily shadows that poisoned the minds of her children in regards to indoctrination?

in ME1 the queen got about three words out before I filled her filthy xeno braincase with shells

Amaya wrote:Again, they can't admit it now if they're planning a big surprise reveal.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZOyeFvnhiI&feature=related

And God can't be disproven.

Its hyperbole. If Bioware were planning a trick ending we'd know about it by now. They're not going to hold it back faced with the fan rage for 3, 6 or 12 months later. We can keep pretending "they're saving it to surprise everyone" but there's no evidence to support that will happen and plenty to suggest it never will. It's a pipe dream at this point.

Still doesn't explain the oily shadows in the dreams...everything points to Shepard being indoctrinated.

Because people have apparently continued misinterpreting that scene (which baffles me because its bluntly obvious). TIM was using the knowledge he acquired on Sanctuary to influence Shepard. In that moment, yes, Shepard was being indoctrinated. But that ended when TIM gets killed.

They would be called GENIUSES for doing this, and praised beyond belief.

Not really. It's still a strong case of crappy writing. "Oh that's right guys it was all a dream. Now you have to go do the last 30 minutes but for realz this time."

TIM acquired that knowledge long after he and Shepard parted ways...

Oh you mean those dreams. To that I respond: Dreamy tendrils in a dream sequence? It must mean something more!

I stand by my interpretation that the dreams are Shepard's trauma. Especially in dream #3 (sry that was #3, #2 is the one where we get a voice over from Ashley/Kaiden) where all the characters who have died are calling his name and the presence of the child who said "you can't help me." The child is a manifestation of everyone Shepard couldn't save and the stress of the war with the Reapers is finally baring down on him.

/facepalm

So the singing oily shadows are just coincidence despite being foreshadowed in ME1?

Okay then...that is totally believable...

Amaya wrote:/facepalm

So the singing oily shadows are just coincidence despite being foreshadowed in ME1?

Okay then...that is totally believable...

When it comes to Lord of Hats I believe you'd make more of an impression talking to granite.

Pretty much.

Maybe I'm a freak of some kind, but my dreams don't have any strange shadows in them. They might be blurry or vague, but there is at least a form to whatever it is I'm seeing...

Amaya wrote:/facepalm

So the singing oily shadows are just coincidence despite being foreshadowed in ME1?

Okay then...that is totally believable...

Oh my God. I was going to let this go but you know what the shadows in a dream sequence mean? NOTHING!!!!!!

Dream 1: No shadows
Dream 2: Some shadows
Dream 3: More shadows

And you call this meaningless?

Tell me you're trolling or haven't played the game.

Amaya wrote:Dream 1: No shadows
Dream 2: Some shadows
Dream 3: More shadows

And you call this meaningless?

Tell me you're trolling or haven't played the game.

I can't even beleive you are posting this with a straight face. You are basically saying: "oh sure, the burnt shape on my toast isn't Jesus Christ?! Pfff ya that makes a lot of ing sense"

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

Amaya wrote:Dream 1: No shadows
Dream 2: Some shadows
Dream 3: More shadows

And you call this meaningless?

Tell me you're trolling or haven't played the game.

I can't even beleive you are posting this with a straight face. You are basically saying: "oh sure, the burnt shape on my toast isn't Jesus Christ?! Pfff ya that makes a lot of ing sense"

How can you see his face! Are you a machine looking out at us from the monitor! Hes a machine spirit!

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

Amaya wrote:Dream 1: No shadows
Dream 2: Some shadows
Dream 3: More shadows

And you call this meaningless?

Tell me you're trolling or haven't played the game.

I can't even beleive you are posting this with a straight face. You are basically saying: "oh sure, the burnt shape on my toast isn't Jesus Christ?! Pfff ya that makes a lot of ing sense"

I'm almost positive you are trolling or entirely inept about this game.

When it comes to Lord of Hats I believe you'd make more of an impression talking to granite.

Said as though any one of the main commenters in this thread actually posted with the intent of being swayed one direction or another.

Between the trolling and people acting obnoxious to each other, its been a rather disappointing read at times. Initially there was some insightful comments, and some legit discussion, but it inevitably goes back to hating and whatnot.

Rather than chewing each other out for guessing differently than the other guy, you chill out and wait for the now inevitable DLC.

Then ya'll can go back to whatever this is.

I'm serious enough to make a wager: Karon if the new ending is the Indoctrination Theory I'll close my account in Dakka forever. If it isn't you close yours. Deal?

Chemical Cutthroat wrote:

When it comes to Lord of Hats I believe you'd make more of an impression talking to granite.

Said as though any one of the main commenters in this thread actually posted with the intent of being swayed one direction or another.

Between the trolling and people acting obnoxious to each other, its been a rather disappointing read at times. Initially there was some insightful comments, and some legit discussion, but it inevitably goes back to hating and whatnot.

Rather than chewing each other out for guessing differently than the other guy, you chill out and wait for the now inevitable DLC.

Then ya'll can go back to whatever this is.

Oh, really, I see humour is quite dead in you then.

Totalwar1402 wrote:When it comes to Lord of Hats I believe you'd make more of an impression talking to granite.

My head gear is cast from a titanium alloy polymer so tough the US government is afraid to use it

Amaya wrote:/facepalm

So the singing oily shadows are just coincidence despite being foreshadowed in ME1?

Okay then...that is totally believable...

First: That's not foreshadowing.

Second: Shadows? In a dream cast in a dimly lit forest? Surprise there. The effects in Shepards dreams are not the same as the tendrils scene in scenes with Saren in ME1, and the tendrils in ME3's ending are probably more a reference to TIM than to Shepard.

I'm serious enough to make a wager: Karon if the new ending is the Indoctrination Theory I'll close my account in Dakka forever. If it isn't you close yours. Deal?

You have more hats than me XD I'm still sitting on a 10% chance of the Indoctrination Theory coming true. I'll get back in a week

Yeah, it kinda is. Rather than friends and fans of the ME world, I just see people who make me feel uncomfortable. Even in 'jest', people get pretty nasty with each other.

Chemical Cutthroat wrote:Yeah, it kinda is. Rather than friends and fans of the ME world, I just see people who make me feel uncomfortable. Even in 'jest', people get pretty nasty with each other.

A jokes not a joke if isn't edgy. If I talk and somebody flat disagrees then theres not a lot I can do other than jest or leave the thread. Besides the view I put across died as of today, therefor the joke has no relevence to whats being discussed. If you talk to somebody and they persist like a mule in not budging on their position; then likening them to a lump of rock after the event seems a suitable term to use. My parents and siblings make more vicious and scathing comments to me than that sort of remark; thats just the sort of banter you have to put up with in society. Its a natural expectation of people that you poke fun at them from time to time.

Besides, there are far worse things that can be said about people on a forum and I didn't see anyone leap up to my defence when it was me being slandered. So I don't see why you should play martyr over such a trivial matter.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:I'm serious enough to make a wager: Karon if the new ending is the Indoctrination Theory I'll close my account in Dakka forever. If it isn't you close yours. Deal?

I've already expressed my doubt after their FAQ that the Indoctrination Theory is actually true.

I've only explained why it should be true and why it fits so well.

Amaya is connecting an event from ME1 to ME3 that makes a lot of sense and you are discrediting it with "pffff, bs"

Your childish wager to attempt to make this a personal matter is laughable at best.

It wasn't that remark. There's a lot of hate and vitrol tossed around in thin guises. I tend to get ignored anyway when I make comments on this sort of thing. Maybe its because I'm not 'edgy' enough. =P

Trying to stay positive and not picking on people seems to mean that I'm not allowed on the internet or something. I'm not trying to say 'woe is me' here, and I'm not trying to give anyone crap.

Did the ending over again and there are so many issues that are either poorly explained or completely nonsensical.

1) Where did the trees in the middle of nowhere come from? I don't remember any trees as I was approaching the beam.

2) How did Shepard, Anderson, and Major Coats survive the blast and with their radios intact?

3) Why is everything so fuzzy around the edges of the area? Is this due to damage suffered after the blast? If so, why doesn't this visual damage last throughout the entire end scene?

4) How does Shepard survive? For that matter, how does Shepard survive the destroy option at all, when s/he has massive amounts of synthetic tech in him/her?

5) How does TIM get there? Was he on the Citadel before hand?

6) How does Anderson beat Shepard to the chasm in the Citadel?

7) Why does Shepard suddenly discover a wound in his/her side in the same spot s/he shot Anderson immediately after Anderson dies?

8) Why would the blasts affect the Normandy at all? If it does, does this mean the blast wiped out all ships in the system?

9) Won't the destruction of the Mass Relays wipe out everything? They destroyed everything in the system in the Arrival DLC...

10) Is the Stargazer on the same planet that the Normandy crashed on? What does this imply for the crew? Are 100-200 humans enough to create a genetically diverse populace and avoid inbreeding?



If the ending is true, it is crap and has an atrocious amount of plot holes in it.

Chemical Cutthroat wrote:It wasn't that remark. There's a lot of hate and vitrol tossed around in thin guises. I tend to get ignored anyway when I make comments on this sort of thing. Maybe its because I'm not 'edgy' enough. =P

Trying to stay positive and not picking on people seems to mean that I'm not allowed on the internet or something. I'm not trying to say 'woe is me' here, and I'm not trying to give anyone crap.

You have every right to be on the internet. Fine, I'am too thin skinned at times; no harm done.

Amaya wrote:Did the ending over again and there are so many issues that are either poorly explained or completely nonsensical.

Agreed.

2) How did Shepard, Anderson, and Major Coats survive the blast and with their radios intact?

Not sure that one needs explaining.

3) Why is everything so fuzzy around the edges of the area? Is this due to damage suffered after the blast? If so, why doesn't this visual damage last throughout the entire end scene?

That's a fairly common camera device in movies and in games. It often fades away when the developers are done with it otherwise it would get annoying.

4) How does Shepard survive? For that matter, how does Shepard survive the destroy option at all, when s/he has massive amounts of synthetic tech in him/her?

Obvious implication is that Shepard has somehow survived with his/her implants (still kind of a wtf moment?). Also, destroy is the only ending where is body isn't outright vaporized or fried.

5) How does TIM get there? Was he on the Citadel before hand?

Presumably the Reapers put him there. He's not a threat anymore after all. Maybe he was on board when the Reapers came and took it.

6) How does Anderson beat Shepard to the chasm in the Citadel?

Who knows. Why is there a beam in the first place? It seems like a little bit of a security flaw to me.

7) Why does Shepard suddenly discover a wound in his/her side in the same spot s/he shot Anderson immediately after Anderson dies?

Anderson doesn't die in all the endings. Also, we don't see where Anderson is shot beyond the vague abdominal area. And Shepards wound? He got blasted by a super laser and his armor torn to pieces and he's clutching his side the whole time.

8) Why would the blasts affect the Normandy at all? If it does, does this mean the blast wiped out all ships in the system?

I honestly have no explanation for that one. I had Liara and Garrus with me for the last mission. Guess who stepped off the Normandy in the destroy ending. Of course I've taken that as being against the indoctrination theory, as there's no reason to show this happening to the Normandy is it's a figment of Shepards mind. The alternative, that that moment is real while the rest is a dream, is also somewhat senseless as that means Liara and Garrus left Shepard laying there, which doesn't seem like something they'd do. And of course why wouldn't Harbinger just kill Shepard. The whole indoctrination thing is kind of contrived in that sense.

9) Won't the destruction of the Mass Relays wipe out everything? They destroyed everything in the system in the Arrival DLC...

Indeed. One explanation is that the energy from the blasts is focused in firing the beam to the next relay but the galaxies christmas lights are pretty big and bright.

10) Is the Stargazer on the same planet that the Normandy crashed on? What does this imply for the crew?

That was the second big WTF for me, after the Catalyst.

Are 100-200 humans enough to create a genetically diverse populace and avoid inbreeding?

I'm not biology major but my guess is no. Then again, that's hand waveable.

Yeah, a fair amount of it can be explained, but even at that point there are still tons of issues with it. It just stinks of being rushed.

To be honest, if they don't go with some form of IDT/hallucination/dream sequence then Bioware is even stupider than they appear to be at the moment. I'd think at least keeping the Mass Relays around would be beneficial for future games in the ME universe unless they plan on doing prequels or games where your travel is limited to sectors...

Amaya wrote:Yeah, a fair amount of it can be explained, but even at that point there are still tons of issues with it. It just stinks of being rushed.

Indeed. No explanations account for all the inconsistencies.

To be honest, if they don't go with some form of IDT/hallucination/dream sequence then Bioware is even stupider than they appear to be at the moment. I'd think at least keeping the Mass Relays around would be beneficial for future games in the ME universe unless they plan on doing prequels or games where your travel is limited to sectors...

I honestly think they're setting up for a huge time skip for ME4. The Asari were ready to start building Mass Relays. They had the technology but no desire to actually do it. Now there's a reason to go about building a new network.

Hehe, I may be the only one who liked my ending (well sort of).
My ending was deciding to destroy the reapers, I felt controlling them would mean everyones death to destroy them was meaningless. Keeping them alive for me was too much of a risk. Although I love the geth, it was a tough choice. After all, this was the greatest war for the whole universe, the ending cant be all happy, wouldn't you say? The only reason I am redoing is so not all life is destroyed I could never connect online and so couldnt further my readiness.

My thoughts though to my ending. Quite simply it was a satisfactory end to a long struggle. The main aim was to destroy the reapers, so future generations would not suffer the same fate, even if that meant wiping out the entire generations at the time. Sacrifice. Losing garrus and liara, my favourite team mates, when they charged with me to the beam, that hit me hard. Andersons death, damn. I think it was good to not explain the starchild deal, was it a creation? Was it God? (please answer this if you know ). Would a better ending be letting some live? Everyone would have lost someone, something etc. Wouldn't it be extremely hard to go back to normal? Most people dying, isn't that the ultimate sacrifice? Allow a new start, it's not fair, but sometimes bad endings for you doesn't necessarily mean a bad ending for others. I realised towards the end that the main objective wasn't to simply take Earth back, but to rid the Galaxy of Reapers, at ANY cost. So for my game, Shepard was born to die, as well as most people at the time, in order for the future to be at peace.

Anyway, thats just my thoughts, for me it was a more 'realistic' ending for me. After my mates saying it was the worst ending in history, I must say I was suprised

I look forward to the epilogue dlc, I didnt get to see who stepped out of the crashed normandy. I suppose Shepard is having a drink in that bar with Garrus then

Shepard dying to defeat the Reapers is not an issue. The issue is the massive amount of plot holes in the ending, the silly Crucible, and the pulled out of the ass Catalyst that appears as a deus ex machina at the end of the game.

Introducing characters that are key to the story in the last 15-20 minutes of a 100 hour gaming experience is bad writing.

Edit:

The worst part is, the endings are racist.

Destroy all Synthetic life - um, didn't we just reunite the Get and Quarians and do a mission showing how the Geth were inherently peaceful to the point where they didn't take up arms against the Quarians until forced and that they allowed the Quarians to surive and flee because they were no longer a threat? Why do the Geth deserve to die for the Reapers' crimes? Why does EDI deserve to die for the Reapers' crimes?

Control the Reapers - So, we can't trust synthetics and its acceptable to violate the free will of a being in order to use it? By controlling the Reapers you are essentially joining them in their mission to wipe out synthetic life in the future when it becomes a threat...because you can't trust synthetics.

Synthesis - Organics and synthetics will always fight so its okay to violate the free will of billions (hopefully that many are still alive) and unify them into a conglomerate of organic-synthetic hybrid races? Yeah...that's not morally questionable at all.


The only acceptable ending involves defeating the Reapers and allowing the survivors to forge a new path unmolested by the mistakes of the past. None of these options give you that.