Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Necros wrote:I actually like the ending just the way it is. The "it was all just a dream" just seems kinda silly to me, it could work here I guess but I just mean in general.

I wouldn't be surprised if they just left it, and the DLCs were leading in to some kinda prequel series that doesn't have anything to do with shepard at all.

Then how do you explain the scene with Shepard waking up in rubble? When he was in space. On the citadel. Where everything is made of metal. You don't think that hints he was in London.

Then how do you explain your party members getting to the Normandy and then randomly fleeing the battle when they had no knowledge about what you were doing and that the blast would happen.

How do you explain the reapers turning around and acting all nice and benign when the reapers have repeatedly proven that they are arrogant meglomaniacal machines and have made no secret of the fact?

How do you explain Anderson somehow sneaking past you after he 'followed you up' and 'appeared in a different place'

etc etc etc

I think you're just being one of those stubborn people on forums who thinks they're being aloof when something is disliked and trying to defend it. Don't. The ending. Makes. No. Sense. It just doesn't. Indeed I'am baffled that you were not taken aback by the surreal nature of the scene. Bioware are not stupid, they are doing that deliberately because they want your money for DLC and want to make it clear to you whats going on isn't what it seems.

iproxtaco wrote:You can't like the ending as it is.

I'm sorry, this isn't a matter of opinion anymore, you literally can't be satisfied by the glaring plotholes, the MacGuffin childreaperwtfgodthing, nonsensical attempts to explain things, the huge contradictions, and the lack of any explanation as to what happens after you screw every person of every species in the galaxy by destroying the Relays.

You know they go supernova when they explode? Every system which had a Mass Relay has been vaporized. Yeah that's right, you've just destroyed Earth, Palaven, Sur'Kesh, Thessia, Rannoch, Tuchanka, Omega, Eden Prime, Illium, every racial leader, the entire fleet you just gathered, your team and the Normandy, and of course, the Citadel.
Makes complete sense, right?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
As for the topic at hand; yes, I'm completely behind this kind of explanation. The ending is just to horribly bad compared the build-up and in comparison to the other two, especially the first. Nothing is explained. Nothing makes sense. No questions we may have had going into the game have been answered, like, what ARE the Reapers? Where did they come from? Why are they actually doing this?
Given Bioware's track record, for example, the epilogues of Dragon Age: Origins and Mass Effect, this can't be it.

However, whilst I'm in agreement with this theory, and have erased this travesty in favor of inventing my own ending, I have a feeling that Bioware know the ending was poor. It was rushed, they knew the plot holes and inconsistencies and are working on to rectify it with a much more satisfying conclusion. Paid DLC or free, I don't care. I want it to be as good as possible, a couple of more pounds for a company that would put that effort in is nothing to me.

All they need to do it revise the ending from the point where Shepard is hit by Harbinger's laser. I have my own ending, maybe I'll post it on the official forums sometimes, see what people think.

I actually think the reapers motives are far simpler than we or they themselves believe. I actually think they don't know their own purpose since reaching the apex of evolution cost them their humanity and thus they have nothing to do but replicate for eternity. Whenever a reaper speaks to you, I think he is deliberately criptic since he is insecure about this glaringly empty and pointless existence that their transhuman perfection has created.

Heres a longer post I put elsehwere where I talk about it

Ac to the kid, the reapers introduce order by preserving organic life in reaper forms. He also clearly states that 'synthesis' is the natural evolution of all life; implying perfection. Harbinger probably was stating the reapers genuine opinion. That is what the reapers are; organic melded with synthetic. The 'chaos' that the reaper on Rannoch probably does refer to the inevitable rise of synthetics once they surpass their creators. The reapers have a Darwinian, not moral view and Jarik expresses a similar sentiment when explaining the rise of the Prothean empire was to ensure 'that our machines would not be greater than us'. However, Harbinger omits several key points already established in the reapers motives. Firstly, they show a complete contempt of organic life, as much as Sovereign showed for the Geth heretics according to Saren. Considering that other sci-fi genres where all consciousness are fused to one super-entity (the thing, the flood etc) is usually justifed as solving all the 'chaotic' elements of organic existence. United in a reaper, there is no war, no disease, no pain, no suffering, no discord, no death and all reside equally in a complete nation. Secondly, they do not do this solution to 'save' organic life. Mainly because the process kills the organics, suggesting the reapers do not understand that it is our consciousness not our flesh that we wish to preserve. Only a logical machine would assume that preserving our DNA and organic material in reaper form might achieve this. Given that so much more organic 'chaos' is subdued by the reaper solution his proposed melding of DNA doesn't make sense. Harbinger is ommitting the reapers hatred of organics which has been well-established in the lore and is indicated by their insistence on killing people to unite their flesh in a reaper shell. Also, the reapers offered the Geth to be put into a body according to Legion, who had no reason to believe any deception given by them. This would suggest that the 'we are here to save organics' is either a clear deception or misguided machine logic. So Harbinger dilutes and distorts the reapers real views into a form more palatable to Shephard in order to manipulate him. The reapers do not care for organic life, and the chaos is not just synthetics annialating organics but is also the organics own propensity for self-destruction. Both threaten the reapers ability to reproduce and need to be controlled by them.

Dwelling on the order/chaos theme the reapers keep repeating. Order, implies certainty in the universe. Chaos implies uncertainty. From a machines logic, it is best to provide order (certainty) that is in their interest. The reapers have no real purpose, as suggested above they have already solved all the issues that define so much of organic life. Without it, they have no true purpose. Indeed their deliberate vagueness probably suggests their own insecurity about this, which they hide behind deluded meglomania at how powerful they are; rather than a mysterious motive. The only thing the reapers can achieve then, is to merely replicate their own perfect forms ad infinitum. To facilitate this, much like a real-life farmer, they have to regulate consumption of organics to make more reapers. Consume them all, and the reapers will extinguish all life thus invalidating any possible purpose they might have. Let them grow too much and they risk the organics/other synthetics becoming strong enough to challenge them. The reapers plan with the citadel implies that they had this process down to an art form and could reliably harvest new hosts for eternity.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

Perkustin wrote:I wasn't a huge fan of the ending, i chose to destroy the reapers, btw the mass relays exploding doesn't kill everyone, that is just wrong OP. It may have been a little piece of fluff, but consider it retconned, or consider it a minor plot hole. Destroying the mass relays obviously has other implications but hey...

The thing that annoyed me was that like Deus Ex 3 there was only one truly 'Right' choice. The one i chose. The Reapers are meddling, they are choosing For people rather than letting them decide, even if it is the decision of synthetics to wipe out Organics, who cares? C'est La Vie...

The other annoyance is that the Reaper's Sole reason for existance is based on a pretty big assumption; that synthetics will inevitably 'go skynet' everytime. This is simply not true, a completely logical construct would not do this, one with a bias or flaw might but it is FAR from guaranteed that Synthetics will turn on their masters, or indeed that the masters would be Xenophobic A-holes á la the Quarians. The 'Tron' sub-quest showed how ridiculously idiotic the Quarinas were, part of the reason i gladly wiped them out

Yes, the reapers are not thinking objectively about this and I think that harbinger told you a half-truth. He ommited all of the reasons for containing the self-destructive urges of organics (of which the machines rising is a consequence) which are by his own perverse logic 'chaos'. Put it bluntly, any machine that really thinks turning everyone to goop and putting them into a machine is a good thing is quite clearly insane. Its a bit like the I Robot storyline where the central AI believes what it is doing is perfectly logical and in the organics interests and since it lacks empathy/understanding of life it cannot comprehend the sinsiter nature of what it is doing.

When Legion said that the Geth needed to find their own way to evolve and not rely on the Reapers he clearly did so because they needed a different path. One which ansawred the question 'does this unit have a soul'. In many ways the reapers could be argued to not have souls given their treatment of life and near demonic actions. The fact the geth succeeded in doing what the reapers did not, or more probably could not do suggests the reapers own glaring weakness. Its likely that the reapers overthrew their creators and probably REALLY do believe that machines will destroy their creators. Because thats what they did and they are perfection and the apex of evolution. Hence they cannot be wrong in their own minds.Their own souless social darwinianism has trapped them in a mentality where they have ultimately regressed to become nothing better than a parasite that breeds and reproduces. They have evolved only to become the simplest kind of organism. In fact, come to think of it, aren't reapers meant to resemble creatures held under the microscope? Bioware is probably implying their parasetic nature and ultimate futility in searching for evolutionary perfection. Since bioware games stress choice, relations between people etc. Its clear why an enemy like the reapers would be set as antagonists in this game. They are a perverse abomination of a manner of thinking about perfection.

You know Total War one answer could potentially explain all those questions: The ending sucks.

Not say thats it, but just saying. It wouldn't be the first time Bioware produced an utterly horrid ending *glares at DA2*

I was actually quite confused once I thought I died to that bigass laser beam.

Once I got onto the "Citadel", I noticed that I could reload my gun, but I would never run out of bullets if I just kept firing over and over. That clued me in immediately that I was indoctrinated and dreaming.

Further proof was the black tendrils coming out of everywhere when I was talking to Illusive Man.

Then, when I noticed I had a gunshot wound in the same place as Anderson for some reason.

I actually really liked the ending because I noticed it for what it was - a fake.

Prestly said on the Bioware Social forums that they will "reveal more" about the game once enough time has passed for everyone who bought the game on release to experience the ending for themselves.

An incredibly clever move by Bioware, and I applaud them for it. I cannot wait for what actually happens.

I just wonder what will happen to those who picked the two wrong options (Synthesis and Control). I picked Destroy because it was clear that "destroy all the geth, EDI, and you because you are half synthetic" was a ploy, and when Shephard said "so the Illusive Man got it right after all" was clearly a trick.

Until then, I will likely either import my ME3 character and play the game again to get to level 60 and just enjoy the best game I've ever played some more, or start again as a Sentinel or Engineer. I've been an Infiltrator since ME1.

Oh, also, I thought it was even more clear when you didn't actually get a save after the ending. Time actually reverts back to before you attack the Illusive Mans base, even on your save profile. Its like it never even happened and you failed on your mission. The game reverts back to your earlier save just like it would if you died on the last mission in ME2.

Karon wrote:I was actually quite confused once I thought I died to that bigass laser beam.

Once I got onto the "Citadel", I noticed that I could reload my gun, but I would never run out of bullets if I just kept firing over and over. That clued me in immediately that I was indoctrinated and dreaming.

Further proof was the black tendrils coming out of everywhere when I was talking to Illusive Man.

Then, when I noticed I had a gunshot wound in the same place as Anderson for some reason.

I actually really liked the ending because I noticed it for what it was - a fake.

Prestly said on the Bioware Social forums that they will "reveal more" about the game once enough time has passed for everyone who bought the game on release to experience the ending for themselves.

An incredibly clever move by Bioware, and I applaud them for it. I cannot wait for what actually happens.

I just wonder what will happen to those who picked the two wrong options (Synthesis and Control). I picked Destroy because it was clear that "destroy all the geth, EDI, and you because you are half synthetic" was a ploy, and when Shephard said "so the Illusive Man got it right after all" was clearly a trick.

Until then, I will likely either import my ME3 character and play the game again to get to level 60 and just enjoy the best game I've ever played some more, or start again as a Sentinel or Engineer. I've been an Infiltrator since ME1.

Oh, also, I thought it was even more clear when you didn't actually get a save after the ending. Time actually reverts back to before you attack the Illusive Mans base, even on your save profile. Its like it never even happened and you failed on your mission. The game reverts back to your earlier save just like it would if you died on the last mission in ME2.

There really is no reason for spoiler tags - the thread says spoilers on it.

You were indoctrinated right from the point where you got hit by Harbingers laser.

Proof....

1. You never run out of bullets in your Carnifex pistol after that point. You can reload, but you can fire thousands of rounds without ever reloading.

2. The black tendrils are cluing you in that you are under the very heavy effects of indoctrination, just like they were effecting you in your dreams. The child has always been the Reapers just fething with your head - it was never real.

3. When you shoot Anderson in the gut, you also get shot in the gut for no reason whatsoever.

4. When you are talking to the God Child, he tries to make the "Destroy the Reapers" option the least attractive, and even makes Shephard say "So the Illusive Man was right after all..." to take you away from even thinking of it.

5. The Synthesis Option is to bring the weak-minded and people who can't decide to come to a compromise. This option is the same as trying to control the Reapers - they still win.

Once you realize that the entire level after you get hit by Harbinger is a dream and you are indoctrinated, it all makes sense. Bioware wouldn't do this to their game, they are too intelligent.

They have effectively indoctrinated and fooled 2/3 of the people that played their game. That is why after the game "ends", you revert back to before you attack the Illusive Mans base. They are likely working on the canon, DLC ending.

Bioware already said earlier that they want everyone to experience the "fake" ending before they say anything.

Karon wrote:
Once you realize that the entire level after you get hit by Harbinger is a dream and you are indoctrinated, it all makes sense. Bioware wouldn't do this to their game, they are too intelligent.

I haven't played the game and I don't care about the quality of it's ending but this really just sounds like you're in denial.

corpsesarefun wrote:

Karon wrote:
Once you realize that the entire level after you get hit by Harbinger is a dream and you are indoctrinated, it all makes sense. Bioware wouldn't do this to their game, they are too intelligent.

I haven't played the game and I don't care about the quality of it's ending but this really just sounds like you're in denial.

Ok

I haven't played the game so I have no stake in it, the way you're speaking comes across as you're desperately finding reasons that bioware can't have made a mistake.

corpsesarefun wrote:I haven't played the game so I have no stake in it, the way you're speaking comes across as you're desperately finding reasons that bioware can't have made a mistake.

That is a logical fallacy. You cannot presume to pass judgement on arguments concerning a subject on which you have no first hand knowledge. If you haven't played the game, all of your information is hearsay, and therefore holds little to no weight in an argument. The ending makes almost no sense at all if it's literal, and the clues that point to the Indoctrination theory are scattered through the game from beginning to end. Play through the game yourself and you just might revise that sentiment.

That said, my sources are telling me that the reason the ending is not on the disk is because people were data-mining an early beta release to spoil the ending, so BioWare pulled it and planned to release the ending as DLC. This DLC is currently being referred to as "The Truth" (though what it will actually be called I have no idea) and will be released next month for free, along with a multiplayer DLC that will include new classes (Geth Infiltrator/Engineer, Krogan Battlemaster, Asari Justicar, and Batarian Soldier/Sentinel I believe). In place of an actual on-disk ending, they created the surreal scene we actually get, which lends credence to the whole indoctrination theory being planned from an early stage. It also allowed them to ship the game earlier and put extra time and effort into an ending DLC while the game was in post production. Had they included the ending on the disk, the game wouldn't be out for another couple of months due to the extra time it would have taken to finish the endgame.

Of course none of this excuses the fact that BioWare effectively released an unfinished game, which is a slippery slope that smacks of EA interference. I'd have waited an extra 3-6 months for a complete game, and to avoid this kind of backlash on a company that I think usually produces well-written games with solid story through-and-through. I think this course of action was BioWare's mistake, not the inclusion of the ending we got. If they had put the actual ending on the disk immediately following the scene that's on there now, people would be praising them for their brilliance, not condemning them for a "half assed ending". It's the waiting and uncertainty that has people upset, not that the sequence in question was included. Think of how shocking that reveal would be if an actual ending followed it. The entire game was spent throwing off indoctrination attempts by Harbinger, culminating in what appears to be an ending sequence, only to either fail the mission for choosing two of the three choices, or to have Shepard wake up on Earth for choosing the third (and having a strong enough military to hold off the Reapers from destroying Earth), throwing off Indoctrination and leading the final push that eradicates the Reapers from the galaxy.

If this theory is wrong, I'll admit my mistake at the end and call it a day. BioWare are capable of errors like any company, and if this is one of them then it's certainly going to make me question my faith in them as a developer. But if it's not, then I'll give them a pass assuming the ending DLC is worth the wait. I imagine they will have learned their lesson after this fiasco, and I doubt they will ever pull a stunt like this again.

Totalwar1402 wrote:

Necros wrote:I actually like the ending just the way it is. The "it was all just a dream" just seems kinda silly to me, it could work here I guess but I just mean in general.

I wouldn't be surprised if they just left it, and the DLCs were leading in to some kinda prequel series that doesn't have anything to do with shepard at all.

Then how do you explain the scene with Shepard waking up in rubble? When he was in space. On the citadel. Where everything is made of metal. You don't think that hints he was in London.

Then how do you explain your party members getting to the Normandy and then randomly fleeing the battle when they had no knowledge about what you were doing and that the blast would happen.

How do you explain the reapers turning around and acting all nice and benign when the reapers have repeatedly proven that they are arrogant meglomaniacal machines and have made no secret of the fact?

How do you explain Anderson somehow sneaking past you after he 'followed you up' and 'appeared in a different place'

etc etc etc

I think you're just being one of those stubborn people on forums who thinks they're being aloof when something is disliked and trying to defend it. Don't. The ending. Makes. No. Sense. It just doesn't. Indeed I'am baffled that you were not taken aback by the surreal nature of the scene. Bioware are not stupid, they are doing that deliberately because they want your money for DLC and want to make it clear to you whats going on isn't what it seems.

Just to back track on what I said before... no I didn't really "like" the ending I got, but I was satisfied enough. When I watched the ending movie, what I took from it was... Reapers are gone forever, Shepard's closest friends are alive somewhere, and Shepard is still alive. The Geth are gone? I don't care, since the only one I liked is dead anyway. EDI is gone? Just another sacrifice shepard had to make in his long career. Isn't there something in ME1 where you have a choice to save Ashely or some other guy? never played it.

Anyway, after all that stuff happened it seemed like the next place to go was Shepard is alive and his next mission will be to help rebuild and do his best to reconnect with his friends. Life will go on.

Overall, the real reason I don't want the "it's a dream so go download the real ending" ending, is because I want to buy a COMPLETE GAME. If they make me pay extra for an ending, or even wait a few months and give it away free, then IMO that's just... crappy to say the least. And it's gonna make me paranoid for other big games in the future so I'll be reading all kinds of spoilers ahead of time just to see if I can play the whole game without having to pay an extra fee later. The whole idea just really bugs me for some reason, so I'm in denial and I'll happily just stick with the ending I got for now

So basically you dislike the prospect of BioWare making a medium-changing decision by releasing the ending of their game as DLC content, even for free, so you choose to deny the whole thing and pretend to like the ending you got despite a complete lack of closure.

Seems rather odd that your real-world view mirrors synthesis (compromise with yourself to make the problem go away rather than taking a stand on the real issue) when you chose destruction and effectively threw off Indoctrination (assuming that theory is correct.)

Aldarionn wrote:

corpsesarefun wrote:I haven't played the game so I have no stake in it, the way you're speaking comes across as you're desperately finding reasons that bioware can't have made a mistake.

That said, my sources are telling me that the reason the ending is not on the disk is because people were data-mining an early beta release to spoil the ending, so BioWare pulled it and planned to release the ending as DLC. This DLC is currently being referred to as "The Truth" (though what it will actually be called I have no idea) and will be released next month for free, along with a multiplayer DLC that will include new classes (Geth Infiltrator/Engineer, Krogan Battlemaster, Asari Justicar, and Batarian Soldier/Sentinel I believe). In place of an actual on-disk ending, they created the surreal scene we actually get, which lends credence to the whole indoctrination theory being planned from an early stage. It also allowed them to ship the game earlier and put extra time and effort into an ending DLC while the game was in post production. Had they included the ending on the disk, the game wouldn't be out for another couple of months due to the extra time it would have taken to finish the endgame.

If thats the case then they don't earn any negative points in my book. Getting to build hype and suspense for a free DLC ending would be epic and amazing. Indeed it would be on par with the KoToR shock of you being Revan. If not greater than that. Since its free that would only enhance the games (and therefore biowares) reputation and earn them great credit since IMO mass effect 3 is probably the greatest game I've ever played bar the ending and solving that would be a bold and intriging move. Paying 800 or 1200 MSP would be disquieting but it wouldn't be enough to make me dislike Bioware. If its high enough quality then I have no problems with it. Given how the rest of the game went and the desire for a true epilogue/ending then I fail to see how it could be bad. It would also turn a negative (current ending) into a positive (unique attempt to indictrinate you where shephard overcomes their manipulation). That would be epic.

It also gives them a second chance to show Tali's face. Its not as if they can't animate alien faces.

I'm not passing judgement on the game, I'm simply saying that the way Karon is speaking isn't dissimilar to someone very much in denial.

corpsesarefun wrote:I'm not passing judgement on the game, I'm simply saying that the way Karon is speaking isn't dissimilar to someone very much in denial.

With all due respect, its a dream because it doesn't make any sense to anyone who has actually seen the game. That and other people have said that Bioware has all but said they are doing DLC. In fact he's not the only one to have said this. There are lots of other people who have said so and made videos about it. This a general trend not one persons opinion or denial. Again, you really shouldn't judge something without having seen it. Thats like judging the effectiveness of a new 40k codex without having read it or even played it on the tabletop. You simply can't do it. Also denying something thats false can't really carry the negative conotations you're putting to it. So if you can't disprove his facts or theories then it doesn't matter if he, like I, wants this to be the case. I was swayed on the evidence and the fact that it just made common-sense unlike the actual ending.

I don't post often anymore, but this is one topic that I needed to post in.

I really disliked how the ending was literally choose your color, red/green/blue. If what you guys are saying is true, there will be much rejoicing in the form of pizza for the little ones. I finished ME3 and literally stared at the screen, squinted, and said the following:

"...that's it? That's it?!! THAT'S IT!?!?one?! YOU'VE GOT TO BE FREAKIN' KIDDING ME! I SPENT A MONTH REPLAYING ME1 AND 2 ONLY FOR IT TO END LIKE THIS!? I finished every subplot/side mission, I saved the whole damned universe twice, I romanced Tali, AND THIS IS THE ENDING YOU GIVE ME!? **** YOU BIOWARE!"

I proceeded to shut my Xbox off, and when my roomy came in and asked what was wrong, I said Mass Effect, he immediately knew what I was talking about and just pointed to the computer screen. There were a bunch of conspiracy theory videos on Mass Effect resembling something out of Lost's pshycopathes.

I am now just hoping that Bioware fixes their game with some DLC, I don't care if I have to pay for it, I just want to get one of the endings where Shepard doesn't end up not dying in an epic confrontation (this sentance will only make sense if you read it slowly).

Footsloggin wrote:I don't post often anymore, but this is one topic that I needed to post in.

I really disliked how the ending was literally choose your color, red/green/blue. If what you guys are saying is true, there will be much rejoicing in the form of pizza for the little ones. I finished ME3 and literally stared at the screen, squinted, and said the following:

"...that's it? That's it?!! THAT'S IT!?!?one?! YOU'VE GOT TO BE FREAKIN' KIDDING ME! I SPENT A MONTH REPLAYING ME1 AND 2 ONLY FOR IT TO END LIKE THIS!? I finished every subplot/side mission, I saved the whole damned universe twice, I romanced Tali, AND THIS IS THE ENDING YOU GIVE ME!? **** YOU BIOWARE!"

I proceeded to shut my Xbox off, and when my roomy came in and asked what was wrong, I said Mass Effect, he immediately knew what I was talking about and just pointed to the computer screen. There were a bunch of conspiracy theory videos on Mass Effect resembling something out of Lost's pshycopathes.

I am now just hoping that Bioware fixes their game with some DLC, I don't care if I have to pay for it, I just want to get one of the endings where Shepard doesn't end up not dying in an epic confrontation (this sentance will only make sense if you read it slowly).

Thats the thing. Bioware did this deliberately and it seems to be more apparent that thats the case. The ending where you see Shephard wake up in London is such a massive hint that it makes denying it pretty difficult. If they do it, then I have no qualms about saying that overall this game was better and far more enjoyable than KoToR 1. That good IMO.

Totalwar1402 wrote:That and other people have said that Bioware has all but said they are doing DLC. In fact he's not the only one to have said this.

For those not watching the Bioware forums (what can I say its wonderful for laughs) its already been pointed out that that Bioware/EA can just say this was their plan all along when in fact it might not have been. They've already lied about the day 1 DLC character, who is actually on the disk from the get go (meaning he couldn't have been produced after the game went to production and was in fact held back solely to be DLC), so Bioware saying "Indoctrination? Right... Um. We planned that." Doesn't hold any sway for me.

Besides, Bioware hasn't been infallible in some time. Anyone who has seen the ending of Dragon Age 2 can easily see how they could produce the ME3 ending and think it was fine.

Again, not saying its not possible for them to have planned it in which case, kudos for doing something marginally inventive, but I look at all the theorycrafting going on and instantly think "grasping at straws."

That aside, anyone else hear about the guy who reported Bioware/EA to the Federal Trade Commission for false advertising all because he didn't like the ending (and he sounded so hopeful) Its almost as if he's never heard of hype before

Just finished the game. I'm a little late to the party. But, yeah... those endings did suck. I've seen all 3, including the "perfect" ones on youtube that were anything but perfect.

LordofHats wrote:

Bojo wrote:*snip*

This

P.S. I support the Garrus and Shepard beach ending. Lets make that happen. And have a mud wrestling match between Miranda and Liara while were at it

Funnily enough before ME3 was released I did imagine some kind of ending where the whole crew is chillin' on a beach... Garrus flippin some burgers on a barbeque... Ashley and Liara playing volleyball in their bikinis... Cheesy, yes, but I want that ending!

As to the indoctrination theories... My initial feeling is to take the endings at face value as I've never known a video game to present that kind of illusion, but indoctrination does make some sense with that analysis. If it turns out not to be that way (And I really hope it is true!) then it's spoiled the whole series for me. I know that's a pretty extreme thing to say, but those endings really were terrible. I couldn't play from the beginning of ME1 again knowing that's what awaited me at the end of the series.

Skarwael wrote:

Funnily enough before ME3 was released I did imagine some kind of ending where the whole crew is chillin' on a beach... Garrus flippin some burgers on a barbeque... Ashley and Liara playing volleyball in their bikinis... Cheesy, yes, but I want that ending!

You do realize that Garrus and Tali will die if they eat Human/Asari food...though I would like to see Tali out of her suit (though she'd end up in an ICU afterwards).

Tadashi wrote:

Skarwael wrote:

Funnily enough before ME3 was released I did imagine some kind of ending where the whole crew is chillin' on a beach... Garrus flippin some burgers on a barbeque... Ashley and Liara playing volleyball in their bikinis... Cheesy, yes, but I want that ending!

You do realize that Garrus and Tali will die if they eat Human/Asari food...

Absolutely! They can have their own special dextro-protein food. And that could come in burger form.

Skarwael wrote:

Tadashi wrote:

Skarwael wrote:

Funnily enough before ME3 was released I did imagine some kind of ending where the whole crew is chillin' on a beach... Garrus flippin some burgers on a barbeque... Ashley and Liara playing volleyball in their bikinis... Cheesy, yes, but I want that ending!

You do realize that Garrus and Tali will die if they eat Human/Asari food...

Absolutely! They can have their own special dextro-protein food. And that could come in burger form.

I suppose two sets then...one set for Ievo-Proteins like Shepard, Kaidan (saved him, not Ashley), and Liara, and another for Dextro-Proteins like Garrus and Tali. Are Krogans ievo- or dextro- (let's not forget the Wrex and Grunt)?

Ugh.

You know, I'd be totally fine with an unhappy ending. But one that actually, I don't know, makes sense?

I just finished it last night, so now I feel safe patrolling the internet once more.

Thankfully, after reading all the thoughts on the matter, it has helped clear things up a little bit. The Synthesis route perplexes me the most. It just makes zero sense, and they don't explain anything about it. It's just, "Yay! We're all part TI-83 now and that makes it all better."

Wat.

As much as I don't want to agree with the whole Indoctrination thing, it really does make sense. Particularly the pistol thing. If Bioware didn't want you firing the pistol and running out of ammo, they just wouldn't have let you shoot it. They do it all the time during cutscenes where they don't want you to shoot stuff, so changing that seems pretty obvious to me now. I didn't test it myself at first, because I was too terrified about saving ammo.

I guess now all I can do is sit and wait.

Is it wrong of me to want a happy ending? I think out of anyone who deserves to settle down on Rannoch with his junk-in-the-trunk Quarian girlfriend, it's Commander Shepard. I'm not bitching about not getting what I want though, I'm just a bit flustered that the options I got didn't make any sense.

Not that any of it does really. That last hour or so I was scratching my head a lot.

And I just felt really guilty about telling everyone ever that we were gonna make it and everything will be okay, and to stop saying goodbye because I'll be back.

Internet! Sum up how I feel!

Tadashi wrote:In the Control ending though the Mass Relays are only damaged, not destroyed, and the Citadel only closed up, it didn't collapse.

The Mass Relays DO explode, why are there so many people who think otherwise? LISTEN to what the Catalyst says and WATCH what happens to the Charon Relay. It's exactly the same, but the explosion is blue.

iproxtaco wrote:

Tadashi wrote:In the Control ending though the Mass Relays are only damaged, not destroyed, and the Citadel only closed up, it didn't collapse.

The Mass Relays DO explode, why are there so many people who think otherwise? LISTEN to what the Catalyst says and WATCH what happens to the Charon Relay. It's exactly the same, but the explosion is blue.

Yeah the Relays do explode, even on the "perfect" endings:




So, basically nearly everyone is screwed no matter what you do.

Tadashi wrote:My analysis:

- don't like this since it basically sends galactic civilization back to the stone age and perpetuates the conflict; instead of organic and synthetic living together, they will continue to resent each other (the future synthetics, at any rate).

Synthetic and organics don't resent each other anyway.

Synthesis
- Shepard sacrifices himself to give the Crucible a techno-organic energy signature. It's the same as the other endings, with the Citadel blowing apart and the Relays collapsing. The Reapers don't die - they leave to find a new purpose by exploring the universe, the Cycle o longer necessary. The synthesis signal transforms all organic life to have synthetic components, and all synthetic life to have organic components. Organic and synthetic life are now one, so the conflict between the two is ended. EDI and all synthetics are also transformed.

What conflict? There isn't one. The Catalyst has a hypothesis without any proof, a hypothesis disproved by Shepard.

- don't like this since it makes everything perfect. I abhor perfection. No more creation and innovation. Evolution is frozen, and in the end the Reapers win, since their vision of the future becomes reality.

Basically, yes. You homogenize everyone into one form, stifling evolution and changing everyone's DNA without consideration or approval.
Other than devaluing any evolutionary progression, not other perceived problems are solved.

Control
- Shepard sacrifices his physical form so his consciousness replaces Catalyst as the Reaper architect and overseer. The retreat signal is sent out; only this time the Citadel doesn't blow apart, and while the Relays are damaged, their only disabled, they can be repaired. The Normandy crashes not because the Relays are gone, rather inoperational. EDI and Joker can still have their happy ending
- my chosen ending. Civilization can rebuild, and evolution can continue down different paths instead of the perfect one decided by the Reapers. Shepard will decide whether or not to continue the Cycle, and when.

The Relays ARE destroyed. The Reapers can return.

And no, I don't think that if a Relay collapses they go supernova. Why? Because i. The Destroy/ Synthesis ending they expend themselves re-sending the signal, while in Arrival, the Project Base simply destabilized the Alpha Relay. Proof? The Citadel is the largest of the Mass Relays; it didn't go spernova, it simply blew apart.

That's not proof. A precedent has been established by Arrival, the outcome can swing either way considering we aren't actually shown anything after the Relays explode.

Could they just break down rather than catastrophically explode?

Like the difference between using explosives to systematically level a building, as opposed to just nuking it.

I'm not sure how it matters, everything is ****'d anyway.

Chemical Cutthroat wrote:Could they just break down rather than catastrophically explode?

Like the difference between using explosives to systematically level a building, as opposed to just nuking it.

I'm not sure how it matters, everything is ****'d anyway.

See, that analogy doesn't work because you are using various levels of explosives to destroy an object that itself has no explosive qualities. Dynamite and a nuclear weapon are NOT the same thing, and the building has no explosive properties at all. The Mass Relay on the other hand is a giant energy source capable of generating enormous Mass Effect fields, then hurling ships across the galaxy in the blink of an eye. That power source is self replicating (because they have been used for millions of years by hundreds of civilizations without losing effectiveness), and it's enormously powerful. In other words, the Mass Relay IS the bomb, so you cannot just blow one up and not expect that power source to lose containment and annihilate everything within range. Think of it like a balloon, and the air inside is the power source, while the rubber exterior is the Mass Relay. It doesn't matter if you use a lighter, a pin or a gun to destabilize the exterior, once it loses containment it explosively decompresses.

So, no, you cannot just disable a Mass Relay. You could potentially deactivate it, or if you had the right know-how you might be able to disassemble it safely and release the energy slowly (like pinching off a part of the balloon and poking a hole in that part, then slowly letting the air out), but that's not what happened. A massive energy wave ripped through the structure and caused it to blow up, which would have explosively released the power source and annihilated everything in range. The only way around that is via ret-con from BioWare, or some unforeseen element to the energy which destroyed the structure but absorbed the released energy so it wouldn't destroy everything within several billion miles. Then again....that amounts to the same thing.

Perhaps the effort to send out the blast that triggers whatever event (Synthesis or whatever), drains a majority of the Mass Relay's energy, making for a much smaller explosion when the relay collapses.

Think about this further, there are two things that could have easily improved the ending without necessarily completely overhauling them.

First, don't force Shepard to be hit by a Reaper blast. Given how powerful their weapons are supposed to be it should have killed him outright anyway, and it really only serves to introduce unnecessary ambiguity to the situation. Instead, replace that sequence where you have to avoid Reaper fire via dodging, make it possible to die, but just with the standard "critical mission failure" bit; and maybe a cut scene showing the result.

Second, get rid of that scene with Joker, EDI, and whatever other party members happen to walk off the Normandy. Well, not get rid of, but instead leave it as Joker and EDI, and perhaps anyone you told to remain aboard the ship. In order to keep EDI on the ship, have either Joker or herself claim that she is necessary to keep the Normandy at maximum combat efficiency; clearly valuable considering where its going to be flying around.

Let Shepard make it to the beam, and transfer, or apparently transfer, to the Citadel. Have a normal party battle against the Illusive Man and his henchmen, it doesn't really even have to be a terribly difficult battle. After its over, Shepard, or Shepard and company, talk to the Catalyst. Keeping the same endings, or changing them, doesn't matter much. Maybe have the ending cut scene show that Shepard and Co. never actually went to the Citadel, but were simply standing in the blue beam communicating with the Catalyst.

The goal of this is to remove the ambiguity of the circumstances of the endings, while maintaining the sort of "What next?" feel they all have.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

iproxtaco wrote:
What conflict? There isn't one. The Catalyst has a hypothesis without any proof, a hypothesis disproved by Shepard.

Getting synthetics and organics to coexist for a time doesn't disprove the idea that, eventually, the synthetics turn against their creators.

Even the Geth got along with the Quarians for a time.