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 Catyrpelius wrote:

 BrookM wrote:
Just a neutral remark here, not taking sides, but that's the beauty with Kickstarter, you can pledge now but don't pay until it is over.

^ This, I've never really seen the point of waiting with kickstarter...

Many of us were waiting to see if they addressed any of the criticisms and concerned. Plopping down my money before doing do only tells them that what they've done is the "right" thing.

When they didn't budge and basically gave a big middle finger to all of those with concerns, I was glad I didn't back.

I don't get the "just throw down the money and decide later" attitude. But to each his own.

December 6th - over 551% of funding goal

Hi everyone!

Day Nine is coming to a close, so it’s time for the Daily Update!

Thank you for your tremendous support thus far! If you’ve already pledged, share the news with your gaming buddies and tell them to hop on this wild ride too. The Early Supporter and Week 2 Thank You are just the beginning of the bonus goodie gifts and early access to exciting content. . .

One more note, and then we’re going to let Mack take it away with a Sneak Peek on Pursuits!! We had a few backers express interest in seeing the Breach Side Chat from http://www.ustream.tv/channel/through-the-breach go up on YouTube, so we published it today on our channel here:

http://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9cCYgR4kxqUmvFZa16qh2g?feature=gb_ch_rec You can also search “Breach Side Chat #1” on YouTube to have a listen to those tantalizing tidbits!

Alright, Mack – take it away! Until Tomorrow! Jacqulyn

Pursuits in “Through the Breach” fill a similar (but somewhat different) role to “Classes” or “Archetypes” in other Tabletop RPGs. Fated (the name for player characters in our game) are far more than just their current pursuit. This is accomplished by a character choosing which road to travel, and being fairly free to switch them at any time.

Take the tail of Mr. Sterling, for example. Many would view him as a Criminal. He smuggles food and medicine into the quarantine zone… and more dangerous products out. Others would consider him a Wastrel, as he spends much of his free time in his favorite saloon. Still others might consider him an Overseer, as he manages the daily operations of his “legitimate” business (he’s an apple vendor).

None would be incorrect. Mr. Sterling is more than just his current Pursuit. He jumps between them as the story progresses, moving further down each path. Each Pursuit has a different advancement path, which provides Talents as they advance down the Pursuit. In addition, each Pursuit has an ability that can only be accessed by a character while they are “on the Pursuit”.

If a character leaves a Pursuit for another (done in between game sessions) he will begin gaining the talents associated with that pursuit. If he later returns to his original Pursuit, he will pick up where he left off, moving further down the track.

However, Pursuits differ very strongly from classes, in that they do not define a character’s role; that is up to the player. A Tinker can augment himself with powerful pneumatic armor, making him a robust physical combatant… or he could focus on more esoteric tools. It’s about the character, not the Pursuit. Two Performers may have learned the same talents moving down the same track, but they will both differ greatly in how they use those tools. In addition, they are likely to have very different “Advanced Pursuits”… which is something we’ll get into later!

For now, this graphic contains a list of the Novice Pursuits (that name might change) that are currently planned to be available to new character’s in Through The Breach!

Justin, one of Wyrd's employees said that they had a mistake with the graphic they put up, I'm going to try and get this updated with the right image, apparently I was quick on the trigger.

For the most point, those Novie Pursuits are pretty standard... I would have been more interested to see how Pursuits evolve over the course of the campaign.

On another note I'm watching the Breach Side Chat right now.

I'm listening to another podcast, and BreachSideChat will be the next on my list

So I just finished watching the first Through the Breach on Youtube. If you have any interest in this RPG it's definatly worth a watch as it answers alot of questions about the game system and where Mack would like to see it go. I've played Malifaux for awhile down and for the past year or so my intrest in it has been on the wane, this project is starting to get me excitied about it again. I complied some notes on some things that interested me during the webcast, but its certaintly not all that was discused in the during it.

- Dispostion, this is going to provide a crossover between the RPG and the Minatures Game. Basically its going to be a way to take your RPG character and play it with the minatures game and vice versa. This has some interesting potential when it comes to campaign type settings for both of the games..

- It doesn't sound like there will be an online or app based character generator, but there might be something to help track your character.

- Goblins don't poop.

- Not every character and use soul stones.

- Players share a fate deck, but each player gets to design their own 13 card twist deck. Twist decks will be a drawn from a fate deck but will improve over time.

- The first book will only give player optinos for Human characters, but it was strongly hinted that we will see an announcement in the next several weeks that would change this.

- Crafting seems to be important. The example of replaceing a lost limb with a pnuematic one was given.

- The RPG doesn't use minis as the default combat option, but there will be an option to do this. Possibly going back to the Dispostion.

- There is no solid answer on a fate screen yet, again it was strongly hinted that this will change. Maybe a possible stretch goal?

- A skill check is going to consist of the relavant stats plus a card flip - Stat 1 + Stat 2 + Flip vs. Difficulty. Most of the difficulties will be set in stone i.e. jumping a certain distance, picking a lock, etc.

- When your health reaches zero you don't die, but bad things start happening to you. The example of loseing an eye, finger or arm was given.

- Weapon damage and health will work alof like the minatures game but will most likely be scaled down.

- There are 8 stats, 4 mental and 4 physical. When you generate your character you will flip a card once for mental and once for physical. Each of these flips will give you an array of 4 numbers that will add up to +1. You will then distrubute the numbers to your stats with 0 being considered an average skill. The higher your initial flip the more well rounded and less focused your character will be. After you asign the array you will be given a small number of bonus points to spend to increase your stats. During character creation your really looking for a well rounded character.

- There will be prusuits and advanced prusuits. Prusuits are easy to change between while advanced prusuits are more story driven.

- There are 4 ways to improve your character over the course of the game:
1 - Skills improve over time as they are used.
2 - The longer your on a prusuit the more skills and triggers you get.
3 - Twist deck.
4 - Every time you complete a step on your destiny you'll increase and atribute(skill I think).

- There will be pets/familiars but they aren't tied to a class.

- A fatemaster deck is just a regular fate deck but it will have some additional player aids on it.

If anyone has any questions, I might be able to answer them but I do highly recommend watching the Breach Side Chat. It's definatly worth the hour of your time.

Hey, just a head's up. I'm not going to be on dakka from about 5 EST till 11:30 EST. Can someone put up the daily update tonight?

 Alfndrate wrote:
Hey, just a head's up. I'm not going to be on dakka from about 5 EST till 11:30 EST. Can someone put up the daily update tonight?

If I beat you to it I'll do it but it won't be until late tonight.

This looks great !! I'm just getting into the miniatures game and an RPG is fantastic !!

But am I the only one who is getting annoyed at Kickstarters WITH Kickstarters?

I mean, I'm pledging to help make a project happen and am expected to wait months for it to be released. But I get penalized and miss out on some cool exclusive because I wasn't aware of it sooner and miss the early pledge deadline? That bugs me and I'm not a fan of that tactic.

 Myrthe wrote:
But I get penalized and miss out on some cool exclusive because I wasn't aware of it sooner and miss the early pledge deadline? That bugs me and I'm not a fan of that tactic.

Yea, I'm also not a fan. Even Kingdom Death's "Black Friday" price break is a little irritating for those of us who locked in a higher pledge because we missed Black Friday or because we missread the pledge description.

December 7th - over 561% of funding goal

Hi everyone!

Day Ten is coming to a close, so it’s time for the Daily Update! Today we’ll send you off to your weekend with some exciting stuff to look forward to for next week!

Get ready to hear the answers to those burning questions you posted in the comments section @BreachSideChat! Mack will be live on Ustream Wednesday, December 12th at 11 a.m. PST. Check it out here: http://www.ustream.tv/channel/through-the-breach

Previously only announced in updates, we are extending the deadline to get our latest early backer reward. As it was only announced through updates, we want to make sure everyone who would like to has the opportunity to get it. If you pledge $60 or more by Friday, Dec. 14th at 5pm PST, you will receive a digital copy of the first official Through the Breach adventure, titled “In Defense of Innocence”.

If you have already pledged, no worries! You will automatically receive this "Thank You" reward and all previous rewards you are eligible for. Likewise, if you pledge to receive this reward, you will also receive all subsequent "Thank You" rewards we may run!

Until Monday!

Jacqulyn

As in, if you want the bonuses, pledge now, quit dawdling.

That is a very good assessment Brook

But you know what you won't get? The first thank you item. And guess what? If you don't pledge until the 15th, you won't get either!!!! Aren't we generous!!

Yeah- that's not going to work out in the end, imo. Talk about intentionally gimping your last minute push...

 RiTides wrote:
Yeah- that's not going to work out in the end, imo. Talk about intentionally gimping your last minute push...

Yes, it is gimping their final push, because many people usually wait till the last minute and say, "Oh well NOW I can get this, that, and another thing, whereas 2 weeks ago I couldn't." They're making this about the project, not what the final push backers can line their pockets with, which is what kickstarter is about. It has been said that the diehard Mali-fools have already backed this project, and would have anyways. The thank yous are to bring in new people that might be interested, and help us get the stretch goals. How many times have we seen in a KS, "As a thank you! We're unlocking this for all levels!" This is no different, they're just not treating it as a stretch goal, and are forcing backers to play their hand to get what they really want, and trust that Wyrd is going to deliver more and more things they'll enjoy.

The kickstarter is slowing down on it's pledges per day, but we're already well beyond the initial funding goal, and so we're pulling in people that weren't in the initial push. While Saturdays are generally slow, we're sitting at 1,465 in pledges yesterday with 1,501 today already (11:45am EST).

Like it has been stated before, there is nothing stopping someone from pledging at the beginning of the drive and waiting it out until the final hours to decide if they want to go through with it or not. In fact, waiting till the end is the dumbest idea ever with something like this imo. You make a conservative pledge (60 bucks), and wait to see if that investment grows to include better things, or if the higher levels suddenly become the sweet spot.

 Alfndrate wrote:

 RiTides wrote:
Yeah- that's not going to work out in the end, imo. Talk about intentionally gimping your last minute push...

Yes, it is gimping their final push, because many people usually wait till the last minute and say, "Oh well NOW I can get this, that, and another thing, whereas 2 weeks ago I couldn't." They're making this about the project, not what the final push backers can line their pockets with, which is what kickstarter is about. It has been said that the diehard Mali-fools have already backed this project, and would have anyways. The thank yous are to bring in new people that might be interested, and help us get the stretch goals. How many times have we seen in a KS, "As a thank you! We're unlocking this for all levels!" This is no different, they're just not treating it as a stretch goal, and are forcing backers to play their hand to get what they really want, and trust that Wyrd is going to deliver more and more things they'll enjoy.

Yes, but by doing so they are gimping the dynamic that gets people out and promote the project.

Normally a stretch goals have a tendency to create a dynamic all of their own.

A.) For example, Kickstarter X starts. For $10 you will get 2 cookies. 15 people might be interested, because for them $10,- for 2 cookies is a good enough deal. Not all of them may know of the KS though.

B.) First stretch goal: If we get a total of $100,- we will give 3 cookies to every $ 10,- pledge.

C.) So people go out and promote the project. Once there are 10 pledgers are in the stretch goal is reached and you get 3 cookies. Now 15 more people may potentially jump on. They wouldn't spend $10,- for 2 cookies, but they're in it for 3. The Kickstarter passed the point where they are "in"

D.) Second stretch goal: If we get a total of $200,- we will give 4 cookies to ever $ 10,- pledge.

etc.., ad infinitum


The idea is that it creates a virtuous circle. Current backers know, that the deal will be better for them, the more people join. The better the deal gets, the more people join as they campaign passes the point where they jump in. Now even more people have an interest to get yet more people in to make it an even better deal, etc., etc. .

The Malifaux Kickstarter doesn't give incentives to go out and multiply. Even if you are a Through the Breach Backer, it doesn't make any difference to you if this Kickstarter does 30.000 or 30 Million. The deal's the same for you. You don't have any incentives to go root for the campaign, go tell your friends, etc., etc.. .

Likewise, there is no "sliding scale" where the deal slowly becomes better and better to get more people on board (elasticity of demand? - not an economist). It's just "this is what you get for price X" (which is JUST like an online store, btw). So there is no dynamic. There is no escalation. There is simply a static level of "purchases", exactly like you would get it with .. well .. an online store.


That is the difference. Giving away something cool to all pledgers "before day X" creates no dynamic. You either already qualify or you don't care.

Giving away something cool for all pledgers "if we reach amount X" creates a group dynamic among existing pledges to get there.

Yeah, but by the same note, you can tell someone this.

Hey man, I know you've been thinking about pledging for Through the Breach, if you pledge, even just 60 bucks now, you can get a free pdf version of their first adventure, why wait till the end, when you are going to miss out on all this stuff...

If the Malifaux kickstarter JUST ran on these thank you rewards, I would agree with you, but you're taking it as one system over another. This kickstarter is combining both of them. Yes, they have stretch goals, but at the same token, Wyrd is also thanking those that are helping them hit those stretch goals.

It goes back again to the idea of making this about the project, and not the backers. You want donate money? Awesome, here is what we'll give you for helping us out, and not waiting to clean up some sweet deals at the end. Remember the project is going to be funded at this point, and complaining about how they choose to thank their backers is pointless at this point. Let them run their kickstarter the way they want to.

 Alfndrate wrote:
Yeah, but by the same note, you can tell someone this.

Hey man, I know you've been thinking about pledging for Through the Breach, if you pledge, even just 60 bucks now, you can get a free pdf version of their first adventure, why wait till the end, when you are going to miss out on all this stuff...

If the Malifaux kickstarter JUST ran on these thank you rewards, I would agree with you, but you're taking it as one system over another. This kickstarter is combining both of them. Yes, they have stretch goals, but at the same token, Wyrd is also thanking those that are helping them hit those stretch goals.

It goes back again to the idea of making this about the project, and not the backers. You want donate money? Awesome, here is what we'll give you for helping us out, and not waiting to clean up some sweet deals at the end. Remember the project is going to be funded at this point, and complaining about how they choose to thank their backers is pointless at this point. Let them run their kickstarter the way they want to.

And when they ask, "Why am i not getting all the stuff you are? Why would I back now?" You of course respond with: but look at all these awesome stretch goals! A PDF at 250k!!! Now you can have 3 copies of the rules!!! And look!!! A pad of paper!!! And look!! A GenCon model they're tossing in because not many people bought them!! Isn't that exciting! What's that? The GW tree set is only $35 and comes with 3 trees that look the exact same? What?

This "about the project and not the backers" excuse is absurd. It should be about them both equally, if not more beneficially for the backers, because they are effectively the investors and the consumer.

And I disagree. It isn't pointless at all. Criticism is the only way they'll change any future ventures they may KS. This KS, if the stretch goals and attitude of the company didn't suck major balls, would be significantly higher than it is now.

Listen. Alf, it's clear no one is going to change your mind, but you're exactly the kind of consumer that NEEDS to be critical of this type of project and how they've approached it and not making justifications at every turn. I own a ton of Malifaux and have for a while. And that's why this frustrates me: it's the antithesis of a customer-centric venture and more or less smacks all of is that have been backing the miniatures game for the past 4 years squarely in the face.

Note: You can ask Cyporiean, but I had every chance to buy those trees at GenCon, and I didn't because I didn't think they were worth the price tag.

The idea is that it's pointless is because it's the same people arguing that this is the biggest feth up of the year, and that Wyrd is stupid for running it this way, and there is no one sitting here saying that this is the greatest thing ever. I have stated several times in this thread that I found issues with this kickstarter, and while they've alleviated my doubts, they might not have alleviated yours, that's fine, I'm sorry that they're not touching you in the way you wish to be touched.

And you're right, they are responding to criticism, you wanted stretch goals, they're putting up stretch goals. You can't blame them if you think the stretch goals are dumb, they obviously think it's something that people want. The pdf is something people are clamoring for, you want to know how quickly the pdf rules will probably be on one of the many sites? I give it a month from book release at the longest, even earlier if we get our books before September 2013. Plenty of people on Wyrd's [ur=http://www.wyrd-games.net/showthread.php?35246-The-Coming-Malifaux-RPG-Kickstarter]forums[/url] put their input in and what we're seeing as rewards and stretch goals are a lot of what people are voicing INCLUDING the pad of character sheets.

And just like people aren't going to change my mind on a project that I like (the RPG is something I've been waiting for since I started Malifaux, and in my mind they could be running it better, but it is still not a bad kickstarter). I'm not critical because there isn't anything majorly wrong with the kickstarter except maybe giving away Nightmare Trees...

 Alfndrate wrote:
It goes back again to the idea of making this about the project, and not the backers. You want donate money? Awesome, here is what we'll give you for helping us out, and not waiting to clean up some sweet deals at the end. Remember the project is going to be funded at this point, and complaining about how they choose to thank their backers is pointless at this point. Let them run their kickstarter the way they want to.

The portion in italics represents one of the things that has been so galling about this campaign (no offense to Alf, it's coming straight from the top here): the sanctimonious attitude that the way that Wyrd is running things is the proper way, while other campaigns have been variations on impropriety. What makes it so very galling is that the reality is very close to the complete opposite of what they claim.

As I pointed out before, the stretch goals are currently connected not to items that are being funded by the stretch goal funds, but to things that are either free or extremely low-cost and not needing development. The pad, the extra copies of miniatures that had the tooling already paid for, the PDFs, all of these require no additional or absolutely minimal investment.

Let's compare that to.. ah, thinking I would compare to Kingdom Death, eh? Nah, that's just too unfair. It's also vulnerable to the complaint that the market for boardgames is much bigger then that for RPGs. So instead let's look at Monte Cook's recent RPG campaign for his new system, Numenera.

One thing that immediatly stands out is how definite the stretch goals are:


First, let's take a moment to condemn Emmanuel Goldstein here for "running his campaign like a store". How dare that fascist bastard donate to "educators and libraries"! Unclean!

Moving along, notice how clear exactly where the money from the stretch goals is headed is made: "If we reach $100,000, I will set aside 300 copies of the Numenera corebook to give out to educators and libraries for free."

Let's look at another;


and


At $160,000 we not only know that there will be a bestiary, (another stretch goal converts it form black and white to full color) and we also know how many pages it will be!

Compare that to the totally opaque way that Wyrd has been handling things;

EricJ wrote:Like we've said over and over, the point of this kickstarter is to make the BEST RPG we can, not to run an online discount shop for a month to pull in quick funds. We have no interest in undercutting/competing with your local gaming stores, so we're staying focused on that goal of making a better RPG, not just making more sales that simply all go back into paying for those stretch goal items.

Got that? They're "staying focused on that goal of making a better RPG"... they're not going to say exactly how, that would be improper, no doubt somehow "undercutting/competing with your local gaming store". But why not make things more specific? Link stretch goals to specific improvements to the base game and the product that will eventually hit the shelves?

Dunno. But certainly one good reason immediately comes to mind: oversight. If Monte Cook doesn't donate those books, he's failing to come through. If the bestiary comes out at only 70 pages, he's in trouble. if it's in black and white to save money, etc, etc.

By contrast look at what Wyrd has actually promised to make: players and master's books, a deck of cards, one (1) adventure and three miniatures. Oh, and some dolls. Can't forget the dolls. So at the end of the campaign Wyrd will have something like $150,000-200,000 to do whatever they want with. how will the backers know if they waste money, or, more likely, money from the campaign ends up being co-mingled with general operating costs? Will there be some sort of accounting made?

Look, none of the problems this campaign has are unfixable. There just doesn't seem to be any recognition on the part of Wyrd that these problems exist, much less interest in fixing them.

My take is simple...

Currently, I'm in theThrough the Breach kickstarter so I get the 'thank you bonuses'. However, I'm also in for the Kingdom Death kickstarter (and they are offering lots of cool stuff that I could get if I stopped pledging for Through the Breach). Time will tell whether this kickstarter keeps my cash.

What irritates me most is not what's on offer with the kickstarter, but the poor quality of updates and information (where are the miniatures or at least the 3D images?). It just isn't very interesting.

Laney

 Buzzsaw wrote:

First, let's take a moment to condemn Emmanuel Goldstein here for "running his campaign like a store". How dare that fascist bastard donate to "educators and libraries"! Unclean!

Moving along, notice how clear exactly where the money from the stretch goals is headed is made: "If we reach $100,000, I will set aside 300 copies of the Numenera corebook to give out to educators and libraries for free."

To be fair, while 300 copies is a lot, it's basically advertising. I work on a graphic novel, which is much closer to standard library material than an RPG, and I still have no illusion that, if I'm "donating" my comic to a library, it's a calculated risk to get noticed. It's better than "donating" them to publishers, but, still.

Transparency is great, and it sounds like that RPG was good at that (and Wyrd could do better in this campaign, regarding transparency), but let's be honest here. If it were "$100k = $5k to libraries," that would be a very different story.

 spiralingcadaver wrote:

 Buzzsaw wrote:

First, let's take a moment to condemn Emmanuel Goldstein here for "running his campaign like a store". How dare that fascist bastard donate to "educators and libraries"! Unclean!

Moving along, notice how clear exactly where the money from the stretch goals is headed is made: "If we reach $100,000, I will set aside 300 copies of the Numenera corebook to give out to educators and libraries for free."

To be fair, while 300 copies is a lot, it's basically advertising. I work on a graphic novel, which is much closer to standard library material than an RPG, and I still have no illusion that, if I'm "donating" my comic to a library, it's a calculated risk to get noticed. It's better than "donating" them to publishers, but, still.

Transparency is great, and it sounds like that RPG was good at that (and Wyrd could do better in this campaign, regarding transparency), but let's be honest here. If it were "$100k = $5k to libraries," that would be a very different story.

A fair point for what it's worth, but you might be missing the forest for the trees. Also, while the risk may be calculated, it's still a) an expenditure, and b) not something anyone else is doing. If we presume (as people have done fairly often in this thread) that a fair price for Core Rulebooks is $60, then this represents the charitable contribution of $18,000 worth (retail value) of materials.

More to the point, it's after all the specificity that is the important point there, beyond the fairly sizable gift. Stretch goal X means A happens, Stretch goal Y pays for development of B and Stretch goal Z adds C to the retail core rulebook.

That's how venture capitol works, that's how kickstarter is supposed to work, and it's very, very much not how Wyrd is choosing to do business.

Edit: Nevermind, it's not worth it.

I was seriously considering Malifaux, and so was of course interested in this kickstarter. But for some reason, Alfndrate you're using their own negative language about fence-sitters like myself, about "waiting to clean up on freebies". How about, I wasn't sure about pledging, and wanted to see the stretch goals, and didn't get it in week 1? So, they use the same tactic in week 2?

The kind of negative language they, and you, are using about potential backers such as myself is foolish to say the least. As a result, I definitely won't be backing this project, and at this point I don't think I'll be posting in this thread again, either. The inability to take feedback and the lashing out at potential customers is rather shocking, and has put me off of this project completely.

That's something you can certainly base your decision on, RiTides. Personally, I'm not one to care about personalities. Romeo from BattleFoam could do a kickstarter and my decision to back it would have the same criteria as Malifaux or any other. Are they producing something I want? And am I getting my money's worth?

But critics do have a point, Wyrd is shooting themselves in the foot on this and I really don't understand why.

Just an update for everyone:
This is thread has lost a lot of it's purpose, and I'm not placing the blame on anyone. This is to update people on the news relating to Through the Breach. That is my job as the original poster. While I am a henchman for Wyrd, I'm not an official employee, so my answers and responses in this thread are opinions and not fact (unless I'm quoting something from the Kickstarter).

If you have grievances about the kickstarter, you can ask questions and post complaints on the kickstarter comment section here . You can pledge a dollar, gain access to the comment section, and retract your pledge if you feel that this isn't the kickstarter for you. Or you can sign up on Wyrd's forums and ask any questions in the Through the Breach thread here.

 Alfndrate wrote:
Just an update for everyone:
This is thread has lost a lot of it's purpose, and I'm not placing the blame on anyone. This is to update people on the news relating to Through the Breach. That is my job as the original poster. While I am a henchman for Wyrd, I'm not an official employee, so my answers and responses in this thread are opinions and not fact (unless I'm quoting something from the Kickstarter).

If you have grievances about the kickstarter, you can ask questions and post complaints on the kickstarter comment section here . You can pledge a dollar, gain access to the comment section, and retract your pledge if you feel that this isn't the kickstarter for you. Or you can sign up on Wyrd's forums and ask any questions in the Through the Breach thread here.

I have been. They respond to very, very little. I do plan on retracting my $1 pledge unless something changes. This thread is intended to discuss said Kickstarter, which is what we've been doing politely but critically. This thread has NOT lost its purpose.

Alf sent me a PM which I appreciate... I just didn't appreciate it being insinuated that I / folks like me were just waiting to clean up on freebies!

I'm glad you're keeping Dakka updated on this, and while I am not at all happy with Wyrd, particularly their language towards fence-sitters, I am still an interested observer of their products.

This KS won't be for me, but one day a Mr. Chompy Bits model may be

 RiTides wrote:
... I just didn't appreciate it being insinuated that I / folks like me were just waiting to clean up on freebies! ... I am not at all happy with Wyrd, particularly their language towards fence-sitters...

I agree. And, as I mentioned initially, I simply wasn't aware of this early on because I happened to be pre-occupied with RL. It happens. I'm not "dawdling" and I do not like the Kickstarter with Kickstarter tactic. More importantly, I don't appreciate the tone and insunutations, especially when they are asking for my pledge to support their endeavor. At this point, I'm not too impressed and do not plan on pledging.

But SO WHAT if people DO want to see what freebies a KS campaign comes up with? Who is Wyrd to be the barometer of the "right" way to run a KS campaign and belittle those that have been "spoiled" by all the cool Kickstarters that HAVE offered freebies. They may not agree with offering extras, or be prepared to do so, but they don't need to belittle the people that DO appreciate the extras and pledge based on them. There are different types of consumers out there. Alienating any of them is just short-sighted and foolish.

Oh, and if they don't intend to undercut shops, why should I pledge now? Are they offering much more of interest? Signifigant discounts that would undercut shops? They've reached their funding goal and I'll just get it when it hits the streets if I'm still interested.