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KnowItAll wrote:
I refer you to Brothers of the Snake, one of the worst SM fanwank pieces of fiction ever written, and how his Space Marines keep growing larger and larger in every book.

Oh god THIS. Brothers of the Snake is the only book I have ever actually stopped reading (at least, as an adult). I like lots of Abnett's other work, but his Space Marines are awful, and Brothers of the Snake was unbearable, and I only barely made it through Prospero Burns just to see the other perspective of the Thousand sons.

Junk like an isolated tac squad gunning down thousands of dark eldar at close quarters...ugh, SW's suddenly being grand spymasters and strategic geniuses but horrifically superstitious super soldiers in the employ of a secular Emperor. Awful.

*coff coff* 1d4chan, Warhammer High, have fun *coff coff*


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 Vaktathi wrote:
SW's suddenly being grand spymasters and strategic geniuses but horrifically superstitious super soldiers in the employ of a secular Emperor. Awful.

Maybe they ARE? Ehm, they have supersenses thanks to the Canis Helix? What, the fact that they drink the hell up and like to brawl make them bad spies? WUT?
And wolves are cunning, as feth. Jesus even the Codex says so, someone ever read it?
Yes, they're very (VERY) superstitious, you know Allfather and all.
Again, codex.

If the codex says something, Dan Abnett can't ignore it. He can't make ALL the wolves dumb and drunktards (I know some of you wish he did/does),.

 Vaktathi wrote:

KnowItAll wrote:
I refer you to Brothers of the Snake, one of the worst SM fanwank pieces of fiction ever written, and how his Space Marines keep growing larger and larger in every book.

Oh god THIS. Brothers of the Snake is the only book I have ever actually stopped reading (at least, as an adult). I like lots of Abnett's other work, but his Space Marines are awful, and Brothers of the Snake was unbearable, and I only barely made it through Prospero Burns just to see the other perspective of the Thousand sons.

Junk like an isolated tac squad gunning down thousands of dark eldar at close quarters...ugh, SW's suddenly being grand spymasters and strategic geniuses but horrifically superstitious super soldiers in the employ of a secular Emperor. Awful.

Like your comments....
If you don't like it leave it, stop crapping....Damn
And ty, my next book - "Brothers of the Snake"...

 DarthMarko wrote:

Like your comments....
If you don't like it leave it, stop crapping....Damn

Oh sweet Jesus, this! ^

 Vaktathi wrote:

KnowItAll wrote:
I refer you to Brothers of the Snake, one of the worst SM fanwank pieces of fiction ever written, and how his Space Marines keep growing larger and larger in every book.

Oh god THIS. Brothers of the Snake is the only book I have ever actually stopped reading (at least, as an adult). I like lots of Abnett's other work, but his Space Marines are awful, and Brothers of the Snake was unbearable, and I only barely made it through Prospero Burns just to see the other perspective of the Thousand sons.

Junk like an isolated tac squad gunning down thousands of dark eldar at close quarters...ugh, SW's suddenly being grand spymasters and strategic geniuses but horrifically superstitious super soldiers in the employ of a secular Emperor. Awful.

Strangely, I had only ever heard good things about Brothers of the Snake (until now).

PunkNeverDie wrote:

Maybe they ARE? Ehm, they have supersenses thanks to the Canis Helix? What, the fact that they drink the hell up and like to brawl make them bad spies? WUT?

8ft tall genetically engineered super soldiers in thick gigantic power armor don't usually tend to make great spies. Supersenses only goes so far, and yeah, spies usually don't drink and brawl.

And wolves are cunning, as feth. Jesus even the Codex says so, someone ever read it?

Yes, there's a difference between cunning and strategic genius.

Yes, they're very (VERY) superstitious, you know Allfather and all.

Right, which in the context of the Great Crusade looks ridiculous when the Emperor is espousing secular creed and those who turn against him are largely the religious/superstitious ones...

If the codex says something, Dan Abnett can't ignore it. He can't make ALL the wolves dumb and drunktards (I know some of you wish he did/does),.

And here's the problem. As I pointed out earlier in this thread, SW's try to be too many contradictory things and come off looking like some tween's bad internet fanfic as a result, trying too hard to be the anything and everything and the best at all of it. They try to come off as dark and scary but humerous and kind, they try to come off as violent berzerkers but subtle and brilliant, they try to come off as pranksters and deadly serious executioners, and it just doesn't mesh at all.

DarthMarko wrote:

Like your comments....
If you don't like it leave it, stop crapping....Damn

Sorry, I thought this was a discussion topic about why people didn't like Space Wolves on an internet discussion board. I guess this wasn't the place to discuss why we don't like Space Wolves and associated fluff.

Obviously my bad...

Just Dave wrote:

Strangely, I had only ever heard good things about Brothers of the Snake (until now).

It's one of those books where if you *love* Space Marines, you'll love the book. If you're more of a fan of the 40k universe in general, the book comes off really bad. Sending a single Space Marine to a planet to clear Dark Eldar from a crash site, SM officers giving showing up and taking direct control of the Imperial Guard (something they're usually *very* not allowed to do following the Heresy), a single Tac squad (isolated and alone) killing thousands of Dark Eldar in at close quarters with barely any harm to show for it in a very short engagement, etc.

 Just Dave wrote:
Strangely, I had only ever heard good things about Brothers of the Snake (until now).

It must be because Dan Abnett is a skilled enough writer to manage to tool up the CMOA into something good unlike Phil Kelly and Matt Ward who jsut writes uninspiring CMOA that smacks of hyperbole.

@V_i was refering to Abnett bashing.....Now if this was a thread named "Why do people love SW" - you would still posted your bias I guess....Well nevermind, and cheers...

Are the white knights for the glorious cause of the Space Wolves just ignoring the evidence for why the so many people dislike them? Like Vaktathi said the wolves come off to many as schizophrenic marines trying to be everything at once; this lack of focus/unity in the development of their chapter themes just leave them as a very Mary-Sueish attempt to be appeal to all types of audiences.

It's fine if you like them and all but that doesn't disregard the viability and evidence brought to you by naysayers who demonstrate it from the codex no less, which you guys try to uphold as the holy standard of Space Wolf fluff...

Abnett's writing is still relevant to why people hate SW's, if his portrayal of them and Space Marines in general does something to impact their view of the faction. Much as Chamber's or Kelly's or anyone else who happen to write about a faction. I'm not trying to bash Abnett, but rather his portrayal of SM's in general the Space Wolves are part of that.

 DarthMarko wrote:
@V_i was refering to Abnett bashing.....Now if this was a thread named "Why do people love SW" - you would still posted your bias I guess....Well nevermind, and cheers...

Good idea Marko I'm opening one right now.

 Vaktathi wrote:
8ft tall genetically engineered super soldiers in thick gigantic power armor don't usually tend to make great spies. Supersenses only goes so far, and yeah, spies usually don't drink and brawl.

Right, which in the context of the Great Crusade looks ridiculous when the Emperor is espousing secular creed and those who turn against him are largely the religious/superstitious ones...

And here's the problem. As I pointed out earlier in this thread, SW's try to be too many contradictory things and come off looking like some tween's bad internet fanfic as a result, trying too hard to be the anything and everything and the best at all of it. They try to come off as dark and scary but humerous and kind, they try to come off as violent berzerkers but subtle and brilliant, they try to come off as pranksters and deadly serious executioners, and it just doesn't mesh at all.

Well, other Chapter can (ehm... Raptors? Raven Guard?), so why they can't with the Canis Helix bonus? Yep, they don't brawl or drink in mission though.
The World Bearers too. The only thing I can handle to you is: why World Bearers have been kicked by the Emprah, who plus ordered the Ultras to destroy the city the WB made for him, and the Wolves didn't? This it's a contradiction even for me.
I don't think so. They are dark, 'cause the Mark of the Wulfen surely isn't a good and sweetie thing, but they're kind toward the imperium citizens cause they KNOW that the Emperor made 'em to conquest new worlds AND PROTECT the citizens. Plus, a Space Wolf train everyday to control his "wulfen nature", so they can be both.
They're violent, yes, but that is a façade they use to take the enemy by surprise. Be honest, if a dude who seems doesn't use his brain but only his brawns put you into a trap so smoothly created, you'd be take by surprise. Am I wrong? So they can be both.
The Skyclaws and the Bloodclaws are brawlers and pranksters thanks to the Canis Helix mutation, but as I said they can be brilliant when they have to and they train everyday to do this. They can be both.

Seriously, I'm the only one who don't see the problem? Plus, they don't say "we're the BEST" they said "we're the weapon of the Emperor". It's different, I think.



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Grimskul wrote:
It's fine if you like them and all but that doesn't disregard the viability and evidence brought to you by naysayers who demonstrate it from the codex no less, which you guys try to uphold as the holy standard of Space Wolf fluff...

The Codex talks about army X background. Yes, it has bias (only their victories? Really?!), but if a codex says: "a Fenrisian is more tough that your average Imperium citizens" taking what is fenris (you know, that planet where wolves are the size of an APC...) I believe it. Like I believe that Ultras are the average marine, like I believe that Blood Angels are among the most loyal chapter. Evah. Like I believe that Eldar are dic... ehm very widsom people.
Really... if you don't take the Codices word for truth, than there is nothing in the 40k fluff that is correct. Sorry pal, nope.

Vaktathi wrote:Abnett's writing is still relevant to why people hate SW's, if his portrayal of them and Space Marines in general does something to impact their view of the faction. Much as Chamber's or Kelly's or anyone else who happen to write about a faction. I'm not trying to bash Abnett, but rather his portrayal of SM's in general the Space Wolves are part of that.

So let me get this straight: you're comparing ANDY CHAMBERS to PHIL KELLY. Ok, say that Ward is a great fluff-writer and I can easily ignore your future posts.
Kelly is GW codices maker equivalent of Dan Abnett for the BL. It's the only Codex writer loved by anyone. Even /tg/.

 Grimskul wrote:
Are the white knights for the glorious cause of the Space Wolves just ignoring the evidence for why the so many people dislike them? Like Vaktathi said the wolves come off to many as schizophrenic marines trying to be everything at once; this lack of focus/unity in the development of their chapter themes just leave them as a very Mary-Sueish attempt to be appeal to all types of audiences.

It's fine if you like them and all but that doesn't disregard the viability and evidence brought to you by naysayers who demonstrate it from the codex no less, which you guys try to uphold as the holy standard of Space Wolf fluff...

I wonder if maybe something that often gets over looked is that the Space Wolves of the HH are probably nothing like the current day SW under Grimnar. Its entirely possible that Russ' group were nothing but cut throat, savage barbarians, who were in fact the Emperor's executioners and were just that savage, straight forward and unrelenting.

Now we skip ahead 10,000 years and SW have regained some of their humanity slowly, but with leaders like Grimnar and Ulrik, men who haven't forgotten that they are men first, the SW are not what they once were. The stories of Russ and the first wolves now just being legend, impressive legends, but still legends with Bjorn the only one who knows the truth. Grimnar is responsible for 40Ks wolves being what they are today. So yeah, maybe they are now cunning, only pretending to be as savage as as Russ and his group once were (hey if it worked back then, why not now), but you only need to look at Ragnar (who probably isn't pretending) to see that SW could possibly retain some of their legendary fight. But then again, Ragnar is just one guy, not a whole legion of guys. There is a reason he is the youngest Wolf Lord to come around in a long time.

So yeah, I can see the wolves as all of the things that they have been portrayed/accused to be, its just they may not have been all of this stuff at the same time.

Abnett a SW fanboy? Seems odd. I recall having read somewhere that, when he and McNeill were splitting jobs for the Thousand Sons/Prospero Burns duology, he chose the Wolves as a personal challenge. Apparently he wasn't quite fond of them.

 Jayden63 wrote:

I wonder if maybe something that often gets over looked is that the Space Wolves of the HH are probably nothing like the current day SW under Grimnar. Its entirely possible that Russ' group were nothing but cut throat, savage barbarians, who were in fact the Emperor's executioners and were just that savage, straight forward and unrelenting.

Now we skip ahead 10,000 years and SW have regained some of their humanity slowly, but with leaders like Grimnar and Ulrik, men who haven't forgotten that they are men first, the SW are not what they once were. The stories of Russ and the first wolves now just being legend, impressive legends, but still legends with Bjorn the only one who knows the truth. Grimnar is responsible for 40Ks wolves being what they are today. So yeah, maybe they are now cunning, only pretending to be as savage as as Russ and his group once were (hey if it worked back then, why not now), but you only need to look at Ragnar (who probably isn't pretending) to see that SW could possibly retain some of their legendary fight. But then again, Ragnar is just one guy, not a whole legion of guys. There is a reason he is the youngest Wolf Lord to come around in a long time.

So yeah, I can see the wolves as all of the things that they have been portrayed/accused to be, its just they may not have been all of this stuff at the same time.

I agree, no one seems to notice the difference. Oh well.

I have to say. I much more prefer Grimnars Wolves to Russ's Wolves. Russ and his guys (even though the books are written from a present day perspective) seem like folk heros like Davy Crocket or Miamoto Musashi or Won Fe Hong. Guys who did exist, who did important things, but may or may not have actually done everything we now attribute to them.

PunkNeverDie110 wrote:

Well, other Chapter can (ehm... Raptors? Raven Guard?), so why they can't with the Canis Helix bonus?

What, be spies? The neither the raptors nor raven guard are know for being spies as far as I know (I won't claim to have read everything about them however). Recon/Guerilla specialists? Sure, but that's different.

Yep, they don't brawl or drink in mission though.

Except they do, or at least do ridiculous prank things.

The World Bearers too. The only thing I can handle to you is: why World Bearers have been kicked by the Emprah, who plus ordered the Ultras to destroy the city the WB made for him, and the Wolves didn't? This it's a contradiction even for me.

Right, that's the weird part.

I don't think so. They are dark, 'cause the Mark of the Wulfen surely isn't a good and sweetie thing, but they're kind toward the imperium citizens cause they KNOW that the Emperor made 'em to conquest new worlds AND PROTECT the citizens. Plus, a Space Wolf train everyday to control his "wulfen nature", so they can be both.
They're violent, yes, but that is a façade they use to take the enemy by surprise. Be honest, if a dude who seems doesn't use his brain but only his brawns put you into a trap so smoothly created, you'd be take by surprise. Am I wrong? So they can be both.
The Skyclaws and the Bloodclaws are brawlers and pranksters thanks to the Canis Helix mutation, but as I said they can be brilliant when they have to and they train everyday to do this. They can be both.

Seriously, I'm the only one who don't see the problem?

See, to me this comes off off very poorly. If a genetically engineered super soldier is mere steps away from beast, and was made for conquest, looking out for the little guy is usually something such a creation is not going to be good at or intended for. That would get in the way of the mission. They also don't seem to have any problem switching that off on a whim depending on what they want their enemy to be. It's one thing to be cunning, but if half your fluff is based on basically being berzerkers, then you say it's all a ruse, that comes off...poorly, and it's not like every other SM chapter isn't violent as well. Just handwaving everything away as training is silly.

It's all "but...but...but", and that's a problem. When you have to counterbalance every point of their fluff and personality with a "but", that reads badly.

Plus, they don't say "we're the BEST" they said "we're the weapon of the Emperor". It's different, I think.

Their fluff doesn't outright state that, but it comes off that way.

PunkNeverDie wrote:
So let me get this straight: you're comparing ANDY CHAMBERS to PHIL KELLY. Ok, say that Ward is a great fluff-writer and I can easily ignore your future posts.
Kelly is GW codices maker equivalent of Dan Abnett for the BL. It's the only Codex writer loved by anyone. Even /tg/.

I wasn't making any comparisons there, I was pointing out how the writing style/capability of an author is relevant to how people perceive the faction and used them as examples, as they both wrote Space Wolves fluff.

This also isn't 4chan, and Kelly has taken a whole lot of flak for the SW and CSM books.

The Space Marines can be compared to rock-bands actually, the Ultamarines are like U2, they will try to save the world but only in the limelight

The Space Wolves doesn't care but they will brag about the times they have saved the world on or off the camera.

So let me get this straight: you're comparing ANDY CHAMBERS to PHIL KELLY. Ok, say that Ward is a great fluff-writer and I can easily ignore your future posts.
Kelly is GW codices maker equivalent of Dan Abnett for the BL. It's the only Codex writer loved by anyone. Even /tg/.

I don't, the CSM codex is still a trainwreck and the fact that Nurgle still reign's supreme annoys me to no end. Not to mention his horrible use of "MUST TAKE AT ALL COSTS UNIT" aka, the Heldrake.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

So let me get this straight: you're comparing ANDY CHAMBERS to PHIL KELLY. Ok, say that Ward is a great fluff-writer and I can easily ignore your future posts.
Kelly is GW codices maker equivalent of Dan Abnett for the BL. It's the only Codex writer loved by anyone. Even /tg/.

I don't, the CSM codex is still a trainwreck and the fact that Nurgle still reign's supreme annoys me to no end. Not to mention his horrible use of "MUST TAKE AT ALL COSTS UNIT" aka, the Heldrake.

The codexes are how they see themselves not how anyone else see them. I mean can you read the Space Marine-codex and think the Imperial Fists regard the Ultras in that way? Or anyone else.

^ They banned your thread - I' gues you have to have a "hate" in the topic title.....

Hate = Frustration which breeds more hate (no spam)
Like = You really show their positive traits (spam)

@B_Z go then on the fb page....https://www.facebook.com/SpaceWolves?fref=ts

 DarthMarko wrote:
^ They banned your thread - I' gues you have to have a "hate" in the topic title.....

Hate = Frustration which breeds more hate (no spam)
Like = You really show their positive traits (spam)

@B_Z go then on the fb page....https://www.facebook.com/SpaceWolves?fref=ts

Well it makes sense that it was banned because there is really nothing there to discuss. It would only really be a one-sided discussion of praising the Space Wolves which while in itself not a bad thing but is still redundant and pointless especially since it just draws trolls to agitate the fans. With hate at least you can have multiple sides of discussion like this one. It's like if I opened a thread on Orks being green, is it necessary? No. On the wider whole of the forum it doesn't provide a good enough topic to justify another thread.

The Ultramarines rather than the SW were probably chosen to destroy the city of Monarchia because the Word Bearers at that time were being punished but not "broken". Only a handful of marines were on the surface at each city and the cities were to be evacuated before destroyed. So pretty much any chapter but the World Eaters probably could have accomplished the task.

Gulliman had the discipline not fight Lorgar after Lorgar struck him. The emperor may have forseen this and chose Gulliman because of his self discipline. I dont think that either Russ or Angron would have allowed Lorgar to get a free strike in and Angron would probably have killed Lorgar while Russ would have just beat the snot out of him.

Given the volatility of the situation and the goal to chastize the WB rather than destroy them it made sense to send someone with the temperment of Gulliman. Lorgar was not respected by his brothers, even Magnus who liked him thought he was a slacker.

 Beaviz81 wrote:
Have you tried to read any other codex? They are all equally bad. I generally take the codexes as how they see themselves (the guys written about in the codex in question). I mean the Space Wolves codex ain't a good read by any means, but that's where the fluff comes from.

No, they are not equally bad, and not all bad in the same ways.

The 4e Dark Angels book was bad from a fluff standpoint because it was so boring it made me want to stab myself in the eye with the leg of my dining room chair, which is not why I find the Space Wolves codex bad.


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 Vaktathi wrote:
SW's suddenly being grand spymasters

I don't actually recall this.

and strategic geniuses

Leman Russ had the third highest amount of victories among the Astartes for a reason.

but horrifically superstitious super soldiers in the employ of a secular Emperor. Awful.

There are actually very simple reasons why the Emperor might tolerate the Space Wolves antics, compared to the Word Bearers.

The Space Wolves had a great many victories, the Word Bearers did not.
The Space Wolves made a point of not forcing their superstitious dogmas upon others, the Word Bearers did not.
But most importantly, the Space Wolves did not worship the Emperor as an actual deity (Use of Allfather notwithstanding). The Word Bearers did.

Actually no, more than that, the Space Wolves, more than any other chapter, act as dogs to the Emperor, doing whatever he says without a moment's hesitation, no matter the deed.


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 Tyr Grimtooth wrote:
Take a gander at Codex Eye of Terror for what GW think Wulfen are to show you how they are not quadrupeds. Of course we also have the beasts encountered deep in the Aett when the dreadnoughts are awoken in Battle of the Fang, which is much more telling as to what happens to failed aspirants that are not disposed of by the Rout. They are surely not Thunderwolves by any stretch, but bipedal wulfen monsters.

I never denied the possibility of their being multiple strains of Wulfen/Fenrisian Wolf, the fluff sure didn't.


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 PunkNeverDie110 wrote:
I bet you say this only 'cause the novels are 'bout SW. Like many people do, so no problem.
Anyone have opinions, yours are simply moved by blind hatred since you're saying that Dan Abnett (who, by the 90% of the 40k community is described like the God of the BL novels) is a bad writer. But surely enough you're right and we're wrong, so please go on and make me laugh some more at your assumptions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum


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 Just Dave wrote:
I feel like, in stereotypical high school terms, that Russ is the jock and a bully. Whilst Horus is the jock that everyone gets along with, and Sanguinius is the nicer-hearted, less-in-your-face kid that everyone gets along with. Whereas Corax seems like the guy you/no-one speaks to, but is in reality a really nice, great guy.
I was thinking about it the other day, and that's how I pictured the Primarch's in the comparisons people often make.

 Beaviz81 wrote:
Agreed Just Dave. You tend to make good points.

Magnus is the guy the schoolyard-bully is picking on, the Khan is the not verbal sidekick of the the bully. Dorn is the teacher's pet, while Perturbo is the wanna-be teacher's pet. Mortarion is the kid with disabilities, the Salamander Primarch is the token black kid, Robute Guilliman is another version of the teacher's pet, Alpharius and Kurze are the emo-guys wearing black, Angron is also a schoolyard bully, Fulgrim is the casanova every girl likes and the list goes on.

And Empy is the sort of gullible teacher that plays favorites.

You guys are crazy.

Leman Russ is obviously the teacher's pet. "Emperor's lapdog" indeed.


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 Just Dave wrote:
Strangely, I had only ever heard good things about Brothers of the Snake (until now).

I've heard dissenting opinions quite often myself.


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 Vaktathi wrote:
8ft tall genetically engineered super soldiers in thick gigantic power armor don't usually tend to make great spies. Supersenses only goes so far, and yeah, spies usually don't drink and brawl.

Space Marines are only seven feet tall.


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 PunkNeverDie110 wrote:
So let me get this straight: you're comparing ANDY CHAMBERS to PHIL KELLY. Ok, say that Ward is a great fluff-writer and I can easily ignore your future posts.
Kelly is GW codices maker equivalent of Dan Abnett for the BL. It's the only Codex writer loved by anyone. Even /tg/.

Andy Chambers was hardly a perfect writer, but he contributed far more to 40k than Kelly has in his dreams.

Void__Dragon wrote:
I don't actually recall this.

Being able to sniff out and keep tabs on agents sent by the Thousand Sons who even themselves did not know their true nature, always managing to somehow have near exact intelligence on their foes, stuff like that.

Leman Russ had the third highest amount of victories among the Astartes for a reason.

How often were the Astartes outright defeated during the Great Crusade? Almost never, thus number of victories is largely synonymous with simply the number of battles they'd engaged in which varied wildly by age of Legion, number of resistant worlds in their path, etc.

There are actually very simple reasons why the Emperor might tolerate the Space Wolves antics, compared to the Word Bearers.

The Space Wolves had a great many victories, the Word Bearers did not.

See above.

The Space Wolves made a point of not forcing their superstitious dogmas upon others, the Word Bearers did not.

A valid point I'll grant I guess, though they really didn't interact with much else either except to fight.

But most importantly, the Space Wolves did not worship the Emperor as an actual deity (Use of Allfather notwithstanding). The Word Bearers did.

There's more to their superstitiousness than just their worship of the Emperor, stuff hacking of runes onto walls as wards against evil and things like that.

Space Marines are only seven feet tall.

In full armor however? Either way, 7ft tall dudes are still rather unsubtle.

 Vaktathi wrote:
Being able to sniff out and keep tabs on agents sent by the Thousand Sons who even themselves did not know their true nature, always managing to somehow have near exact intelligence on their foes, stuff like that.

See, I'm not sure why being big would preclude them from being capable of that.

But regardless, they clearly did not have exact intelligence. The Thousand Sons had nothing to do with Hawser, Leman and friends were sent chasing a pipe dream.

Also, they first suspected that Hawser was a sleeper agent via scrying his mind with Rune Priests.

How often were the Astartes outright defeated during the Great Crusade? Almost never, thus number of victories is largely synonymous with simply the number of battles they'd engaged in which varied wildly by age of Legion, number of resistant worlds in their path, etc.

Indeed it does, but Leman Russ always sought the glory of difficult battles. Granted, I do think that Abnett's seeming implication that the Wolves are particularly competent (By Astartes standards) in war is stupid, but what was actually written didn't portray that, IMO. I don't see them portrayed as any more capable than the Thousand Sons were in their book, who brilliantly used combined arms, only with psychic powers, enabling them to respond to threats before any other fighting force would be aware they were there.

See above.

Your reasoning is not really relevant to the Emperor's, IMHO. The Emperor is like a douche shift manager at Walmart. Only wants results, he doesn't give a damn why you could not deliver. Also, Lorgar's slow progress was his own fault, as has been clear in the fluff since the Index Astartes

A valid point I'll grant I guess, though they really didn't interact with much else either except to fight.

Indeed, which is all the Emperor ever wanted.

There's more to their superstitiousness than just their worship of the Emperor, stuff hacking of runes onto walls as wards against evil and things like that.

True, but I don't think that alone would make the Emperor censure a Legion.

At the end of the day, the Space Wolves, like the other Legions, were an effective fighting force. The Word Bearers, well, were not.

The real weird thing that I have no explanation for is the banning of the Librarians, but allowing the Rune Priests to continue practicing their powers. Not banning the Thousand Sons of their powers, they were sorcerers, but what a Librarian of the Ultramarines practiced was no different from a Rune Priest.

Hey, look everyone, I am actually defending the Space Wolves.

Don't get me wrong, I agree that there are a lot of problems with their fluff, and agree with a lot that you think, but these specific points aren't really issues, IMHO.

 Void__Dragon wrote:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum.

While true it is still a valid argument. The popularity of "Entertainment" is what that entertainment is judged by. So as long as you are not judging how he writes, grammer ect. Then Dan's popularity would be the primary means by which his writing is judged.

So what you are saying is that Stephenie Meyer is a better writer than Abnett?

Re: The Emperor allowing their use of Runes and continued use of psychic powers, I believe this may be due to their obvious, unflinching loyalty and that these activities appear to actually lead to a "safer" usage of the warp/psychic powers.
Another possible explanation is that the Space Wolves appear to be like a "no-holds-barred", will-do-anything force (even acting as executioners, even if that's not their true role), and their use of Runes and Rune Priests may have only helped with that?

Just how I would imagine the Emperor justifying it.

 Just Dave wrote:
Re: The Emperor allowing their use of Runes and continued use of psychic powers, I believe this may be due to their obvious, unflinching loyalty and that these activities appear to actually lead to a "safer" usage of the warp/psychic powers.
Another possible explanation is that the Space Wolves appear to be like a "no-holds-barred", will-do-anything force (even acting as executioners, even if that's not their true role), and their use of Runes and Rune Priests may have only helped with that?

Just how I would imagine the Emperor justifying it.

He would know otherwise though right and be a big liar liar pants on fire.