The Games Workshop Hobby, I gotta admit it, I'm out. The prices got to me.

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**ThouShallNotHeal**

Our wallets feed them

**MadMarkMagee**

To be fair, they do have a lot more overheads then a lot of other miniature companies.

Their models are manufactured in the UK, which would put there prices up a little bit. (Just bought a 50 au dollar Tamiya tank, see it's made in the Philippines , flames of war is made in Malaysia).

Plus they have to operate a bunch of stores, while most other companies don't. (imagine the insurance overheads of all those 7 yr olds hanging about).

However, I think that the recent price rises and corporate practices are pretty annoying, unjustified and will only hurt the company in the long term.

I didn't mind paying the prices 2 years ago, but now it's getting silly.

**-Loki-**

MadMarkMagee wrote:
Plus they have to operate a bunch of stores, while most other companies don't. (imagine the insurance overheads of all those 7 yr olds hanging about).

Which is a good reason to drop them and re-evaluate their pricing structure to be competitive in independant stores with competing games. Using their stores as an excuse only means they're what needs to go.

MadMarkMagee wrote:
However, I think that the recent price rises and corporate practices are pretty annoying, unjustified and will only hurt the company in the long term.

I didn't mind paying the prices 2 years ago, but now it's getting silly.

The price increases are not new. They've been happening at least since they went public, and I couldn't say if it went on before then because I simply don't remember that far back.

**MadMarkMagee**

MadMarkMagee wrote:
However, I think that the recent price rises and corporate practices are pretty annoying, unjustified and will only hurt the company in the long term.

I didn't mind paying the prices 2 years ago, but now it's getting silly.

The price increases are not new. They've been happening at least since they went public, and I couldn't say if it went on before then because I simply don't remember that far back.

I know, but its gotten to a point where I won't spend any substantially large amount of money on things.

I wonder how much the company is worth... ? The hobbyists could buy it ! Everyone on Dakka Dakka could go out and buy a 100 dollars worth of shares. It would benefit us all in the long term, it could be run only to break even, as to guarantee cheap space marines. Though I'm being silly now

.

**ThouShallNotHeal**

nah, the company would fail almost instantly if we bought it. Too many conflicting opinions.

**MadMarkMagee**

ThouShallNotHeal wrote:
nah, the company would fail almost instantly if we bought it. Too many conflicting opinions.

I'm not saying we should actually medal much with the artistic direction and designers.

Anyway, unless there are a lot of rich crazy people on Dakka, I don't think my suggestion is ever going to happen. Ignore The share price is 788 pounds atm

Edit: shares worth 7.88 pounds, misunderstanding uk currency.

There are 7.2 billion shares atm.

They also only have about a 10 percent profit margin atm.

Anyway this is quite interesting...

http://au.finance.yahoo.com/q?s=GAW.L

http://au.finance.yahoo.com/q/ks?s=GAW.L

Any accountants out there correct me if this post is rubbish or I've misunderstood some economics jargon.

**ExNoctemNacimur**

I think it's pence.

**Howard A Treesong**

The share prices are in pence not pounds, they are £7.88 each

**MadMarkMagee**

Howard A Treesong wrote:
The share prices are in pence not pounds, they are £7.88 each

Then why does it say 788.38?

Weird, So I wouldn't do this I checked out qantas and that's listed as "1.80" or something, so I assumed...

Automatically Appended Next Post:

MadMarkMagee wrote:
Howard A Treesong wrote:
The share prices are in pence not pounds, they are £7.88 each

Then why does it say 788.38?

Weird, So I wouldn't do this I checked out qantas and that's listed as "1.80" or something, so I assumed...

Edit: Says down the bottom, "Currency in GBp". Would assume that means that "788" are pounds. Smaller companies are usually divided up into bigger lumps?

Edit Again. Your probably right.

**ExNoctemNacimur**

Nah, the hint's probably the lower case p - for pence.

**ThouShallNotHeal**

lmfao I dunno, 788 pounds sounds right for anything GW

**MadMarkMagee**

ThouShallNotHeal wrote:
lmfao I dunno, 788 pounds sounds right for anything GW

haha, No the price is 7.88 pounds. Don't know why they list it like that.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
My Mistake

**insaniak**

MadMarkMagee wrote:
To be fair, they do have a lot more overheads then a lot of other miniature companies.

Those overheads though are supposed to be good for the bottom line overall. Manufacturing in the UK is a choice they make. It's supposed to make them look good to customers and investors, and helps them keep control of their production. Better quality on the production line, and more good will are supposed to translate into more sales.

Likewise, they don't 'have' to run their own stores. They choose to do so because they think it brings in more sales overall.

When those stores stop being useful, you reduce them or remove them... Which is pretty much what they have been doing over the last few years.

**Howard A Treesong**

All their shops and mass production to drive sales should give them economy of scale. That they have to supposedly charge more than other manufacturers to compensate doesn't look great to me. They should be pushing mass market while their competitors are niche costly things. As it is, GW are the costly ones.

**MadMarkMagee**

insaniak wrote:
MadMarkMagee wrote:
To be fair, they do have a lot more overheads then a lot of other miniature companies.

Manufacturing in the UK is a choice they make.

Not saying that is a bad thing.

**dracpanzer**

Price Hikes will continue until all models are painted. Get to work!

**Howard A Treesong**

Though they tried to take it abroad and it didn't work out, they had those awful terrain pieces produced and Forgeworld stuff suddenly started appearing a lot more from recasters.

**MadMarkMagee**

Howard A Treesong wrote:
All their shops and mass production to drive sales should give them economy of scale. That they have to supposedly charge more than other manufacturers to compensate doesn't look great to me. They should be pushing mass market while their competitors are niche costly things. As it is, GW are the costly ones.

I agree. I very much doubt that making the spures cost very much at all once they have made a return on the design/molds. I mean how many new people are they going to get in to the hobby if the models are so expensive? When I was a kid in the very early 2000's my parents wouldn't buy me GW cause they said it was rip off/waste of money. That was at early 2000's prices.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Howard A Treesong wrote:
Though they tried to take it abroad and it didn't work out, they had those awful terrain pieces produced and Forgeworld stuff suddenly started appearing a lot more from recasters.

Anyway the cost of industrial production isn't very much at all in western countries, if the objects being produced are well designed and thus not labor intensive.

**loki old fart**

weeble1000 wrote:
cincydooley wrote:

I mean, I think voting with your wallet is the best way to show your dissatisfaction, but its got a bit more oomph if you actually quit buying their product completely and not just first hand

And twice the oomph if you spend that money on competitors' products. Three times the oomph if you use those products at your FLGS. Four times the oomph if you actively promote said products and work to build a thriving community around them. Hell, send GW videos of your Warmahordes tournament, pictures of your Infinity league, or battle reports from your Kings of War games.

Five times the oomph If you go to a gamesday event, wearing a tee shirt saying "I play ****insert competitor ***** twice the fun, at half the cost

**ThouShallNotHeal**

I wonder if they'd make you leave

**SilverMK2**

ThouShallNotHeal wrote:
I wonder if they'd make you leave

When I moved to a new area (earlier this year) I went into the local GW to see what it was like. There was an older guy who came in (probably 50's or 60's) to buy a pin vice and the GW chap (I think he was the manager - there seem to be 2-3 people who work at my local store) and the guy did the usual "so what are you working on" talk and the man replied that he was working on some super detailed Tamiya kit and you could see the fear in the staffers eyes and it was actually kind of embarrassing watching how he tried to almost drag this guy out of the store while he talked about how great this kit was and how it fitted together etc (all without realising, as far as I am aware, that he isn't allowed to talk about anything that isn't HHHHobby related on pain of death).

**cincydooley**

weeble1000 wrote:
cincydooley wrote:
For all of you that are making these ethical stands against buying from GW, I think that's great. Honestly. But remember that all that 2nd hand stuff you're buying was purchased from GW at some point. Also remember that GW sells product to distributors at a significant markdown anyway, so the % off retail that you're paying second hand is really far less than GWs bottom selling line.

I mean, I think voting with your wallet is the best way to show your dissatisfaction, but its got a bit more oomph if you actually quit buying their product completely and not just first hand

And twice the oomph if you spend that money on competitors' products. Three times the oomph if you use those products at your FLGS. Four times the oomph if you actively promote said products and work to build a thriving community around them. Hell, send GW videos of your Warmahordes tournament, pictures of your Infinity league, or battle reports from your Kings of War games.

!"

Exactly what I was driving to. If you're dissatisfied, spend the money elsewhere, not simply second hand. Absolutely the best way to vote with your wallet.

**ThouShallNotHeal**

It's a shame, for the most part they are excellent models.

**cincydooley**

ThouShallNotHeal wrote:
It's a shame, for the most part they are excellent models.

Which is a major reason why many people are still willing to pay the increased prices. Like I said, I've been buying less frivolously, but if there's something cool that I like, I'll still buy it. All the new Lizardmen stuff has me itching to start a new fantasy army. I most likely wont because two fantasy armies is plenty, but it's definitely piqued my interest.

**Herzlos**

weeble1000 wrote:

The swiftest, best response I ever got from GW customer service was when I first started boycotting GW for ethical reasons. I sent GW a list of my planned GW purchases with MSRP, explained why I was planning those purchases, and attached a list of the same value of Privateer Press starter boxes that I had purchased instead. I explained that I had never purchased a single PP product in my life and had never expected to, but that I had now done so because of behavior GW was engaged in. This is your company. This is your company losing market share.

I got a personal phone call from GW customer service inside of a week. I politely explained that Games Workshop's litigation and treatment of the hobby community in general were the principle reasons I had made my decision, and stated that I would, as long as such activity continued, continue spending my table-top wargaming dollars elsewhere.

It may not look like it, but Games Workshop really does care about losing market share. Games Workshop knows it is happening, and instead of actually taking steps to deal with it intelligently, GW has instead chosen to say, "This is great news!"

Good on you! If I ever feel the need to write to them again (I wrote about Finecast and heard nothing) I'll attach some receipts for spending at competitors, because they have managed to literally drive away hundreds of dollars of sales from me.

kb305 wrote:
frozenwastes wrote:
kb305 wrote:

hunching over a desk for hours on end glueing and painting is no better than playing video games. dont pretend like it is.

I guess that's the case if you don't value being creative.

Different people value different things and that act of valuing is what makes a hobby worthwhile.

at a kid's level it's little more than paint by numbers and there's pressure to paint them in established color schemes.

if you value having your kids sit around all day inside hunched over a desk breathing plastic glue, primer fumes and god knows what else then i dont know what you tell you.

Assuming you don't value things like motor skills, attention to detail, patience resulting in rewarding results and socialising, then there's probably no interest in it.

Whilst my painting and converting skills sucked as a kid (and still do), it got me socialising with similar folk, gave me something to be passionate about, and has resulted in me being fairly competent working with small detailed stuff.

**ThouShallNotHeal**

As has it with mine, But sadly I don't like the new Saur beasts :c well, Carnosaur variants anyway.

**heartserenade**

kb305 wrote:
BryllCream wrote:
frozenwastes wrote:
Also, the demo sales process works. When GW stores do it, they sell starters. Same when Independent retailers can make it work.

It's the reason Privateer has focused their volunteer pressgangers so much on demo games.

Demoing games sells games. Old fashion, put the product in the customer's hands kind of sales. Their retail arm is a form of marketing that uses time tested sales methods of getting people to try it, giving them a positive experience with it, putting it in their hand and closing the sale.

You make it sound a lot creepier than it is. Or do you have a moral objection to kids having hobbies and being introduced to tabletop gaming and painting/modelling? You'd rather they just stared blankly at a tv playing COD all day?

hunching over a desk for hours on end glueing and painting is no better than playing video games. dont pretend like it is.

When did you become the authority of what's fun for everyone?

News Flash: not everyone likes video games. Another news: not everyone hates painting and modelling like you do, some actually *gasp* enjoy it.

It's you basically saying that what you think is fun is fun for everyone and what you hate doing isn't fun for them and they're just filthy little liars.

**Jack_Death**

MadMarkMagee wrote:
ThouShallNotHeal wrote:
nah, the company would fail almost instantly if we bought it. Too many conflicting opinions.

I'm not saying we should actually medal much with the artistic direction and designers.

Anyway, unless there are a lot of rich crazy people on Dakka, I don't think my suggestion is ever going to happen. Ignore The share price is 788 pounds atm

Edit: shares worth 7.88 pounds, misunderstanding uk currency.

There are 7.2 billion shares atm.

They also only have about a 10 percent profit margin atm.

Anyway this is quite interesting...

http://au.finance.yahoo.com/q?s=GAW.L

http://au.finance.yahoo.com/q/ks?s=GAW.L

Any accountants out there correct me if this post is rubbish or I've misunderstood some economics jargon.

Never mind ...

**MWHistorian**

I gripe and complain (especially about how GW is letting the SOB disappear and how the chaos codex is a boring and stale) but I do love the hobby. I love the stories behind the factions and characters. I love spending long hours assembling and painting. I love converting and coming up with interesting army lists. I also love playing and finding new strategies.

I love the hobby and don't plan to leave anytime soon. (unless they come out with more Lords of Skulls type crap.) But I fully understand and respect those that feel that the prices are too high. which is true, or that the GW corporates are ruining the hobby. Also true.

Maybe I'm a part of the problem. I'll admit that. But as it is, I love W40k too much to leave. I've been playing since Rogue Trader and is a part of me in a way.

**Talizvar**

loki old fart wrote:
Five times the oomph If you go to a gamesday event, wearing a tee shirt saying "I play ****insert competitor ***** twice the fun, at half the cost

I wonder if they would have some little known clause for the event for just such a thing to cover up or get kicked out? Seeing how they like to control the gaming environment I wonder...drink the cool-aid wear the t-shirt.