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I'm on Season 3 of Shameless on BBC. Well first off I really REALLY want Frank to...well...to move on. Someone from the UK please tell me that the GIRO(?) whatever it is that's like our (USA) Unemployment checks? Is it that really relied upon? I know its television and all that but Holy Hell its putting out a serious vibe that those individuals are like a major drag on society. Much like ours though Frank is warping my perception of it. Really warping my perception.

Seriously, you live in one of the richest countries on earth, and are engaging in a debate about whether working people should be paid enough to be able to afford a tv. Incredible.

Who give a gak where he lives. Owning a TV is hardly an unalienable human right.

Unions had a place when the worker population was made of largely uneducated people. That's not the case anymore.

Wonder if anyone told these brilliant McDs strikers that if they unionize they're going to have to pay monthly dues that negate some of that pay increase they're seeking.

 cincydooley wrote:

Seriously, you live in one of the richest countries on earth, and are engaging in a debate about whether working people should be paid enough to be able to afford a tv. Incredible.

Who give a gak where he lives. Owning a TV is hardly an unalienable human right.

Unions had a place when the worker population was made of largely uneducated people. That's not the case anymore.

Wonder if anyone told these brilliant McDs strikers that if they unionize they're going to have to pay monthly dues that negate some of that pay increase they're seeking.

Why do you think the unions are backing them? They're hoping to get their foot in the door of that cash cow.

At times...when I do think of unions. I am not sure if I am for them or against them. Some of the actions they do are quite "dumb" to say the least

And yes. I know the people relying on fast food as a full time job ARE comparatively uneducated. But we're not talking Upton Sinclaire levels of uneducated.

 djones520 wrote:
Unions had their hay day, and their on their way out. From what I just read, it seems like that in Europe as well. Even some of the more unionized countries are seeing drastic drops.

Union memberships look like they're in terminal decline all over the developed world, yeah.

Seaward wrote:

 azazel the cat wrote:
You're either trolling or have become a complete idiot; either way I'll pander here:

-You fly planes and talk down about post-secondary education.

Can you point me to the post where I did that? I believe you're confusing me with someone else in this thread.

You said you like your money too much to be subsidizing others, in relation to post-secondary tuition subsidies.

Seaward wrote:

-The planes you fly were designed as a byproduct of a massive push for post-secondary education.

And that's just absurd. We were in the business of fighting wars via air power long before anybody started making the push for every American to go to college.

And as a result, there was a massive push for every American to go to college, because the average grunts weren't likely to design jet planes.

Seaward wrote:

-The people who gained a post-secondary education were the ones who designed the planes that you fly.

A useful post-secondary education. They weren't designed by history and English majors.

Ah, so again, you believe the purpose of education is vocational training. What a dull existence you must dream of plunging the world into, where everyone is their job. The corn farmers only talk about corn, and the electicians only read magazines about circuits, or would, if only there was a tradesperson who could break out of their shell and publish one. Education makes you a complete person, and the abstract skills that go along with it are useful in almost any field.

Seaward wrote:

In other words, it is very ironic that you hold such a negative position towards university, considering without such emphasis on universities in the past, your profession basically wouldn't exist and you'd be asking for a raise up to $15 per hour right now.

Well, you've got a point there. It's incredibly competitive to wind up getting aviation out of either the Academy or OCS. From there, it's incredibly competitive to get jets. From jets, it was (at the time) incredibly competitive to get Super Hornets over EA-6Bs or S-3s. But you've got a point. Without "such emphasis on universities in the past," people who fething land jets on aircraft carriers would be minimum wage earners. Because, really, all that separates them from you is a lucky break, right? You totally could've done something like that, if only it hadn't been for all those basketweaving classes or whatever.

Honestly? Yeah, probably. But the lifestyle didn't suit me. On a related note, didn't I just read about a drone landing on an aircraft carrier?

Seaward wrote:

 SilverMK2 wrote:
Whilst the knowledge taught in such courses may not be directly useful to a lot of jobs, it is the skills learned which count for the value of the education received rather than, particularly, the subject studied. There are plenty of degrees which do not tie in directly with jobs but the people who undertake them are more employable, generally, in higher level roles than those who did not attend university.

I understand that's what we liberal arts majors tell ourselves, but it quite simply isn't true. When I got out and wasn't getting that delicious Navy money anymore, I tried to make my history degree as appealing as possible when I was sending resumes around. Just like the thousands of other people out there with worthless BAs. I certainly wasn't hired for it.

That's unfortunate. My education in criminology and history definitely contributed to my being hired.

Everyone would probably agree that a majority of a college degree unless its specific. I'm starting to get the feel that one is better off getting a "Tech" education is more desirable. Though adding a degree though enhances that Tech education.

Az you have a Law Degree? Just asking because for the life of me I can't remember what you do in the RL if you had posted it in some other thread

He knows how to hide bodies... (from an old threads).

 Jihadin wrote:
I'm on Season 3 of Shameless on BBC. Well first off I really REALLY want Frank to...well...to move on. Someone from the UK please tell me that the GIRO(?) whatever it is that's like our (USA) Unemployment checks? Is it that really relied upon? I know its television and all that but Holy Hell its putting out a serious vibe that those individuals are like a major drag on society. Much like ours though Frank is warping my perception of it. Really warping my perception.

Yeah its a welfare check. I cant comment on much else because I am aussie and dont know much about chav culture other then they are scum.

 cincydooley wrote:
Who give a gak where he lives. Owning a TV is hardly an unalienable human right.

Who said it was an inalienable human right? Why in the feth should something have to be an inalienable human right in order for an incredibly wealthy society to think its lowest paid workers should have enough money to afford it.

Unions had a place when the worker population was made of largely uneducated people. That's not the case anymore.

The decline of unions has nothing to do with education, but with the evolution of better industrial relations systems and health and safety standards... which of course unions played an important part in putting in to place. The unions effected their own demise by delivering to the workers what they had demanded.

 azazel the cat wrote:
You said you like your money too much to be subsidizing others, in relation to post-secondary tuition subsidies.

And an increased minimum wage. And social security. And Medicaid. And everything else.

And as a result, there was a massive push for every American to go to college, because the average grunts weren't likely to design jet planes.

And here we see why a history degree is completely worthless. Azazel's got one, and believes that the push for university in America was designed by the government for the purpose of producing planes.

Ah, so again, you believe the purpose of education is vocational training.

No, but I don't believe guys who are going to end up working some hourly job need to go to college to get there.

Honestly? Yeah, probably. But the lifestyle didn't suit me.

Oh, I'm sure. On an unrelated note, here's a story about Arthur Miller: Death of a Salesman had just opened on Broadway the night before, and he was walking around his old neighborhood in Brooklyn, and he sees a hot dog vendor that he went to high school with, and he says, "Hey Jimmy, it's me, Arthur Miller!" And the hot dog vendor says, "Artie, how you doing? What you been up to?" And Miller says, "Oh, I'm a playwright now. I've got a play on Broadway." And the hot dog vendor says, "Hmm, play writing... I should've gone into that."

On a related note, didn't I just read about a drone landing on an aircraft carrier?

You did indeed. How's that related, though?

That's unfortunate. My education in criminology and history definitely contributed to my being hired.

It's not unfortunate at all. Business development is far more lucrative than anything I'd be using my history degree for.

 Seaward wrote:

And here we see why a history degree is completely worthless.

A history degree is defintiely worthless to someone whose aspiration is to design and build jets. However, someone who dreams of working in a library, or museum or historical society... yeah, a history degree is kinda necessary. I wouldn't know of too many history/art museums to hire a BSEE holder to give guided tours, as they wouldn't know very much history.

You're going to spend $50 large to give guided tours in a museum? Did you just say that?

 Frazzled wrote:
You're going to spend $50 large to give guided tours in a museum? Did you just say that?

nope I said history degrees are useful for working in museums, unlike something like an Electronics Engineering degree... probably not the best example, however I do know that the "big" areas where history degrees are useful/hired at are museums, schools, historical societies, and libraries....

 pities2004 wrote:

Major corporations, banks etc start at about 14-15 dollars an hour, which is much more demanding and requiring more life skills.


Fast food is not a career and should not be paid like one

False... I work in the banking industry, and our starting wages are around $8.50-$9.00/hr.

What I think most people aren't getting about this strike is that it has nothing to do with "living wage" or "overwhelming profits". The fact is that IF McD's caves (they won't), then the prices of their food will scale accordingly to keep the profit margins similar. Alternately, there are ALWAYS young kids who will work for dirt cheap. This strike is a joke... and I'm personally going to laugh when McD's just fires and replaces all the "striking" workers.

Welcome to America, where you gotta know how to play the game.

 Irkhalu wrote:
and I'm personally going to laugh when McD's just fires and replaces all the "striking" workers.

Are you living in an alternate universe where fast food jobs are highly sought after? What are they going to replace a full crew with? A bunch of part time only high school students? A bunch of unemployed college grads that will leave at the merest hint of a better job? Skilled trade people won't be there for obvious reasons. It won't be non-college grad adults as they just fired them. To replace a full crew with any kind of speed they would have to create incentives such as increasing pay, which is counter intuitive to the whole point.

Or, they fire as they hire. Not hard to do at all. Typical turn over in fast food is very high. If management wants to increase that for a cycle they will be able to without much problem.

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
You're going to spend $50 large to give guided tours in a museum? Did you just say that?

nope I said history degrees are useful for working in museums, unlike something like an Electronics Engineering degree... probably not the best example, however I do know that the "big" areas where history degrees are useful/hired at are museums, schools, historical societies, and libraries....

OK. No disagreement there.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Are you living in an alternate universe where fast food jobs are highly sought after? What are they going to replace a full crew with?

More illegal aliens. Its not a big deal.

 Ahtman wrote:

 Irkhalu wrote:
and I'm personally going to laugh when McD's just fires and replaces all the "striking" workers.

Are you living in an alternate universe where fast food jobs are highly sought after? What are they going to replace a full crew with? A bunch of part time only high school students? A bunch of unemployed college grads that will leave at the merest hint of a better job? Skilled trade people won't be there for obvious reasons. It won't be non-college grad adults as they just fired them. To replace a full crew with any kind of speed they would have to create incentives such as increasing pay, which is counter intuitive to the whole point.

As was stated above, you just fire them a couple at a time, filling their spots as you go. McD's always has a hiring pool of applicants because people know that is where you go when all else fails... you get a fast food job. They have a high enough turn-over rate as it is to consider it a non-issue.

 Ahtman wrote:

Are you living in an alternate universe where fast food jobs are highly sought after? What are they going to replace a full crew with? A bunch of part time only high school students? A bunch of unemployed college grads that will leave at the merest hint of a better job? Skilled trade people won't be there for obvious reasons. It won't be non-college grad adults as they just fired them. To replace a full crew with any kind of speed they would have to create incentives such as increasing pay, which is counter intuitive to the whole point.

Who cares who it is. It's a low skill, high turnover position. They'd gradly take unemployed college grads that are are easier to train, even if their stay is longer. Always going to be another 16-year old that wants to soup up his Ford Focus or Honda Civic.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Irkhalu wrote:

 Ahtman wrote:

 Irkhalu wrote:
and I'm personally going to laugh when McD's just fires and replaces all the "striking" workers.

Are you living in an alternate universe where fast food jobs are highly sought after? What are they going to replace a full crew with? A bunch of part time only high school students? A bunch of unemployed college grads that will leave at the merest hint of a better job? Skilled trade people won't be there for obvious reasons. It won't be non-college grad adults as they just fired them. To replace a full crew with any kind of speed they would have to create incentives such as increasing pay, which is counter intuitive to the whole point.

As was stated above, you just fire them a couple at a time, filling their spots as you go. McD's always has a hiring pool of applicants because people know that is where you go when all else fails... you get a fast food job. They have a high enough turn-over rate as it is to consider it a non-issue.

Exactly. And the ONLY reason these places aren't filled with unemployed college grads and hipsters now is because most of them think they're "too good" for those jobs. THATS the real problem.

I'd almost guarantee with my resume I could go find a menial part time job to supplement my primary income within 14 days if wanted to/needed to.

I know if they do strike, first thing im doing is going over the Mcdonalds, Buldozing my way past the picket line and getting an application.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
I know if they do strike, first thing im doing is going over the Mcdonalds, Buldozing my way past the picket line and getting an application.

Hey HS--- HOw old are you and where do you live, and what's your level of ed? If it fits, I can see if there's anything entry levelish with the company I work for.

 Frazzled wrote:

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
You're going to spend $50 large to give guided tours in a museum? Did you just say that?

nope I said history degrees are useful for working in museums, unlike something like an Electronics Engineering degree... probably not the best example, however I do know that the "big" areas where history degrees are useful/hired at are museums, schools, historical societies, and libraries....

OK. No disagreement there.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Are you living in an alternate universe where fast food jobs are highly sought after? What are they going to replace a full crew with?

More illegal aliens. Its not a big deal.

That is the biggest joke here TBH, The illegal aliens get all the jobs here. You have to know someone to get a job as a teenager. An because mcdonalds requires, atleast here, "Must be available all hours" they are not hiring teens that dont want to work friday night. And AMEN about "Too good for fastfood" my sister worke two weeks at mcdonalds before she left because she didnt get enough free time.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 cincydooley wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
I know if they do strike, first thing im doing is going over the Mcdonalds, Buldozing my way past the picket line and getting an application.

Hey HS--- HOw old are you and where do you live, and what's your level of ed? If it fits, I can see if there's anything entry levelish with the company I work for.

Nah, I have a job, Im just making a joke about how the will hire people when other picket. Thanks though.

 cincydooley wrote:
And the ONLY reason these places aren't filled with unemployed college grads and hipsters now is because most of them think they're "too good" for those jobs. THATS the real problem.

Actually most fast food places don't like to hire college grads because it has been proven over and over that it is a waste of training since they leave as soon as another job comes there way. If you walk into McD's and say "I have a Bachelor's in X!" they aren't going to say "Welcome aboard!", they are going to say "WTF are you doing here? Next". Unless you are a Philosophy Major in which case they will ask "what took so long?". Fast Food already has enough issues with turnover they don't need to compound it by hiring people they know will walk out the door in five minutes. Part time on-campus fast food is a bit different, as they tend to use college students where High School students usually go.

 cincydooley wrote:
I'd almost guarantee with my resume I could go find a menial part time job to supplement my primary income within 14 days if wanted to/needed to.

Finding a part time job to supplement a normal full time job is a whole different animal then trying to find a full time position that is your main source of income.

 Ahtman wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:
And the ONLY reason these places aren't filled with unemployed college grads and hipsters now is because most of them think they're "too good" for those jobs. THATS the real problem.

Actually most fast food places don't like to hire college grads because it has been proven over and over that it is a waste of training since they leave as soon as another job comes there way. If you walk into McD's and say "I have a Bachelor's in X!" they aren't going to say "Welcome aboard!", they are going to say "WTF are you doing here? Next". Unless you are a Philosophy Major in which case they will ask "what took so long?". Fast Food already has enough issues with turnover they don't need to compound it by hiring people they know will walk out the door in five minutes. Part time on-campus fast food is a bit different, as they tend to use college students where High School students usually go.

I could see that.

I recall articles just prior to the Recession that Plumbers and Electricians were where the jobs were at. Then the recession hit and guess who lost all their jobs. Construction workers included plumbers and electricians.

Think about Medical doctors. Scientists are dilligently working on computers that can diagnose issues using programs, does anyone doubt that these will become better than actual people? Then, why do we need doctors? Nurse Practiioners can write down the data and feed it to the computer.

Poof, Doctors are no longer highly skilled professionals. They are in the trash heap of history. What is hot at the moment you graduate is not what will be hot in the future. Despite what many people will tell you, there is no way to know for sure. So you might as well do something you want to do and make the best of it.

Edit: Oh yeah, if you want to do the Styem v Liberal Arts Wars, this place has a lot of data.

http://www.census.gov/newsroom/releases/archives/education/cb12-196.html

STEM is winning at the moment.

 Ahtman wrote:

Actually most fast food places don't like to hire college grads because it has been proven over and over that it is a waste of training since they leave as soon as another job comes there way. If you walk into McD's and say "I have a Bachelor's in X!" they aren't going to say "Welcome aboard!", they are going to say "WTF are you doing here? Next". Unless you are a Philosophy Major in which case they will ask "what took so long?". Fast Food already has enough issues with turnover they don't need to compound it by hiring people they know will walk out the door in five minutes. Part time on-campus fast food is a bit different, as they tend to use college students where High School students usually go.

I guess that simply wasn't my experience when I was laid off. Granted, I only applied at two fast food joints and mostly manual labor places like FedEx and UPS and a few other trucking companies, but I didn't have a problem. I did get the "WTF are you doing here" comment from the 24 year old (complete estimate) that interviewed me though. I was truthful and they offered me a job on the spot.

Finding a part time job to supplement a normal full time job is a whole different animal then trying to find a full time position that is your main source of income.

Well thats sort of the point then, isn't it. These shouldn't be full time jobs. They're not intended to be. At all.

Honestly, I don't know why any fast food restaurant would even hire for full time if you weren't in management. There's literally no reason for them to. With AHA, there's no way I'd even offer more than 20 hours a week unless you were management.

 Easy E wrote:
I recall articles just prior to the Recession that Plumbers and Electricians were where the jobs were at. Then the recession hit and guess who lost all their jobs. Construction workers included plumbers and electricians.

Think about Medical doctors. Scientists are dilligently working on computers that can diagnose issues using programs, does anyone doubt that these will become better than actual people? Then, why do we need doctors? Nurse Practiioners can write down the data and feed it to the computer.

Poof, Doctors are no longer highly skilled professionals. They are in the trash heap of history. What is hot at the moment you graduate is not what will be hot in the future. Despite what many people will tell you, there is no way to know for sure. So you might as well do something you want to do and make the best of it.

Edit: Oh yeah, if you want to do the Styem v Liberal Arts Wars, this place has a lot of data.

http://www.census.gov/newsroom/releases/archives/education/cb12-196.html

STEM is winning at the moment.

I will never get the htred there is in this world for liberal arts. I thoroughly enjoy sociology, a very real science, Why should I not persue it as a major? alot better then what some of my friends do. It is about how hard you work, not your degree i believe.

I will never get the htred there is in this world for liberal arts. I thoroughly enjoy sociology, a very real science, Why should I not persue it as a major? alot better then what some of my friends do. It is about how hard you work, not your degree i believe.

No hatred for it, but don't come whining to me when you can't get a job in the real world. I'd challenge you on sociology being a hard science though.*


*Not like basket weaving. Now thats sciency!