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So I embark the Purifiers into the Pod in DS Reserves. -> Allowed.

I roll (per the RoT rule) for the purifiers to arrive turn 1. -> Allowed.

What happens when I pass the roll?

nosferatu1001 wrote:

confoo22 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
It is not a legal roll if all of the units within the combined unit are eligible to make the roll.

Explain how it's not a legal roll and back up with cited rules, please. Others have demonstrated how it is legal, but nobody has found a hard rule that says it's not.

Except that it is stll being discussed. Rolling for the purifiers alone causes at least 2 issues, either of which breaks a rule and thus is not a legal roll unless your rule explciitly allows you to break said rule.

Both of those issues have been addressed and explained within the context of the rules by those arguing for them. Those arguing against keep bringing up the same points and ignoring the explanation or are reaching for semantics to explain why this one word invalidates everything, and even that has been explained.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
So I embark the Purifiers into the Pod in DS Reserves. -> Allowed.

I roll (per the RoT rule) for the purifiers to arrive turn 1. -> Allowed.

What happens when I pass the roll?

According to the naysayers the drop pod refuses to move and sits there, lecturing the purifiers on the use of the words "arrive" and "deploy"

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
Should state turn 2+. only drop pod assualt allows turn 1 arrival and at this point in the reserves phase those have already been taken into account. In any case - has no effect on the argument - the point is the drop pod is not eligible to arrive turn 1...

Your statement is correct if you ignore the Combined Reserve Units rule.

It's like you haven't read that rule at all or something.

The combined units reserve roll rule assumes that the roll you are making is a legal roll. It is not a legal roll if all of the units within the combined unit are eligible to make the roll. That is my interpretation.

Out flanking units can never bring ICs then.

doesn't scout confer to the unit?

nosferatu1001 wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
No, its why it isnt a quote. It is, however, a clear paraphrase of the pertinent bit to this disucssion

To be more precise: the pod only has permission to roll frmo turn 2 onwards

This is incorrect. Please, be exactly precise.

Pods that aren't part of DPA have permission to roll "as normal". Turn 2 is never mentioned. At all. You're making this up and confusing the issue by doing so.
What's "as normal" when a unit is allowed to roll on turn one?

The DP unit isnt allowed to roll turn one, unless it is part of the half, rounded up. It never can roll under the RoT rule, you have to select the purifiers to do that. I've then explained the problems that causes, however you fail to address that part. Maybe address everything this time?

I have. Maybe read the entire thread this time?

Is this pod part of the half, rounded up? No
What turn is "normal" for it? 2

Again, be precise yourself.

What is normal for the Combined Reserve Unit? One of the units requires you to roll turn one. You've failed to cite denial of this permission, instead you made up a rule saying that Pods not part of DPA must roll on turn 2 (onwards).
Since there's no restriction of "turn 2" (despite your multiple assurances there is) rolling on turn one - as normal for a Combined Unit containing an RoT unit - breaks no rules.

confoo22 - no, they have not been addressed. Not succintly enough to be convincing, for a start.

The rules do not give permission for you to ignore the turn requirement on individual component units of the combined units. They are, in fact, utterly silent in this regard. Meaning there is no permission to break these rules.

The rules for combined units require you to deploy the unit you rolled for, as per the DS rules. Given you cannot perform this action AND cmply with the DPA rules, you have broken a rule - and have no permission to do so.

So instead of saying these have been proven, prove how exactly how you roll for purifiers, but change "them" to be the drop pod. The rules do not allow it, but please - page and graph.

confoo22 wrote:

 BlackTalos wrote:
[Yes they are, but the Rules for Deep Strike ask that you deploy the Unit you rolled for:

"Roll for the arrival of all Deep Striking units as specified in the rules for Reserves and then deploy them as follows:"

And in this case the rules for Reserves will refer you to combined units which will tell you that any combined unit must arrive all at once and then will be deployed via deep strike using the modified drop pod rules.

Correct, and these rules require you "First, place one model from the unit anywhere on the table, in the position where you would like it to arrive," of the Unit you just rolled for (The Purifiers)

Feel like going in circles yet?

confoo22 wrote:
You don't actually quote the rule I reference here. If you can spell it out and show where my statement is incorrect please do.

"all models in the unit must have the Deep Strike special rule and the unit must start the game in Reserve. When placing the unit in Reserve, you must tell your opponent that it will be arriving by Deep Strike (sometimes called Deep Strike Reserve)".

This rule says that all models must have DS (Purifiers do not), and that upon placing the Unit (Drop Pod) in reserves, it goes into Deep Strike Reserve.
This does not mean that ALL unit in "Deep Strike Reserve" are arriving by Deep Strike.

Only that units arriving by Deep Strike must be in Deep Strike Reserve.

A Includes B.
It does not mean B must include A.
Simple logic.

So according to my example, what happens when you pass the Turn 1 RoT reserve roll for the Purifiers?

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
So I embark the Purifiers into the Pod in DS Reserves. -> Allowed.

I roll (per the RoT rule) for the purifiers to arrive turn 1. -> Allowed.

What happens when I pass the roll?

You follow the rules for Deep Strike:
You deploy (on the table) the Unit you rolled for.

At that point, you realise this is not possible, because they're in the Pod, so they can't be put on the table until the Pod is deployed (but you didn't roll for it, so how would you do that?)

 BlackTalos wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
So I embark the Purifiers into the Pod in DS Reserves. -> Allowed.

I roll (per the RoT rule) for the purifiers to arrive turn 1. -> Allowed.

What happens when I pass the roll?

You follow the rules for Deep Strike:
You deploy (on the table) the Unit you rolled for.

At that point, you realise this is not possible, because they're in the Pod, so they can't be put on the table until the Pod is deployed (but you didn't roll for it, so how would you do that?)

So how do the Purifiers come on from reserve then?

You break a rule, is the answer.

Meaning you cannot roll in the first place. You cant try to break a rule, and just go "well I already rolled"

Break. No. Rule. Youre breaking a rule by attempting to invoke an optional rule. Guess what you dont get to do?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

 BlackTalos wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
So I embark the Purifiers into the Pod in DS Reserves. -> Allowed.

I roll (per the RoT rule) for the purifiers to arrive turn 1. -> Allowed.

What happens when I pass the roll?

You follow the rules for Deep Strike:
You deploy (on the table) the Unit you rolled for.

At that point, you realise this is not possible, because they're in the Pod, so they can't be put on the table until the Pod is deployed (but you didn't roll for it, so how would you do that?)

So how do the Purifiers come on from reserve then?

You roll for their transport vehicle, obviously.. As you are allowed to do within the Combined Unit rule

Only then have you complied with ALL rules. Not just those you want to comply with.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
You break a rule, is the answer.

Meaning you cannot roll in the first place. You cant try to break a rule, and just go "well I already rolled"

Break. No. Rule. Youre breaking a rule by attempting to invoke an optional rule. Guess what you dont get to do?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

 BlackTalos wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
So I embark the Purifiers into the Pod in DS Reserves. -> Allowed.

I roll (per the RoT rule) for the purifiers to arrive turn 1. -> Allowed.

What happens when I pass the roll?

You follow the rules for Deep Strike:
You deploy (on the table) the Unit you rolled for.

At that point, you realise this is not possible, because they're in the Pod, so they can't be put on the table until the Pod is deployed (but you didn't roll for it, so how would you do that?)

So how do the Purifiers come on from reserve then?

You roll for their transport vehicle, obviously.. As you are allowed to do within the Combined Unit rule

Only then have you complied with ALL rules. Not just those you want to comply with.

Isn't the RoT rule more specific than the regular rules for reserves, and so would override the more general rule in the case that there is a direct rules conflict (as in this case)?

By the way, to make it clear what "my side" is:
- Combined Reserve means you have to roll once for all of the Units.
- And/Or refers to having an IC and Transport / an IC or Transport. Not who you can roll for: you only roll for the "Combined Unit.
- This Combined Unit follows the rules for DS: The Unit (T+Passengers) is Deep Striking, but only the Transport is arriving "by Deep Strike", while the Passengers are arriving "by disembarking", but the entire (combined) Unit is Deep Striking.

Lastly and more importantly:
- I am unsure as to whether RoT would allow the Combined Unit to roll on Turn 1, or not. Rigeld made a good point that the answer is "Yes", but don't want to get involved in "Detachment rules" until they fix that.

Unit - it is not more specific, as it fails to specify that it can allow non-NSF detachment units to arrive alongside, or that the roll for the NSF unit can be made and non-NSF units are assumed to have the same value for the turn they can roll from.

If you CAN roll JUST for the purifiers, you cannot do so and comply with the DS AND DPA rules at the same time. Meaning you cannot roll JUST for the purifiers.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
So according to my example, what happens when you pass the Turn 1 RoT reserve roll for the Purifiers?

You wouldn't be able to make that roll if they weren't in a drop pod. Put them in a pod and RAW allows you to make a roll for ROT -however deep strike rules state you must place a modle from the unit you rolled for and deep strike rules do not allow you to place a unit without deep strike on the table from deep strike reserves...you have to roll for the pod in this case- which is ineligible turn 1 because it can not claim ROT. IMO - this debate is settled.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Isn't the RoT rule more specific than the regular rules for reserves, and so would override the more general rule in the case that there is a direct rules conflict (as in this case)?

Very possible, but not part of my participation.

I am only correcting some interpretations that are proven incorrect:
- You can roll for Passengers to arrive by Deep Strike
- Passengers are arriving "by Deep Strike"

Well the purifiers still get to come on from reserve or the game breaks. Either their specific rule overrides the reserve rules, or RoT works for no unit.

It is possible they could come out of Deep Strike Reserve by walking on, but that has even less support than arriving via Pod.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
You break a rule, is the answer.

Meaning you cannot roll in the first place. You cant try to break a rule, and just go "well I already rolled"

Break. No. Rule. Youre breaking a rule by attempting to invoke an optional rule. Guess what you dont get to do?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

 BlackTalos wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
So I embark the Purifiers into the Pod in DS Reserves. -> Allowed.

I roll (per the RoT rule) for the purifiers to arrive turn 1. -> Allowed.

What happens when I pass the roll?

You follow the rules for Deep Strike:
You deploy (on the table) the Unit you rolled for.

At that point, you realise this is not possible, because they're in the Pod, so they can't be put on the table until the Pod is deployed (but you didn't roll for it, so how would you do that?)

So how do the Purifiers come on from reserve then?

You roll for their transport vehicle, obviously.. As you are allowed to do within the Combined Unit rule

Only then have you complied with ALL rules. Not just those you want to comply with.

I just want to say...Duh...but the wording is such that I can see one would want to try to argue this case so it's not quite - duh.

Reposting relevant rules.

Roll for the arrival of all Deep Striking units as specified in the rules for Reserves and then deploy them as follows:

Ok. So we have a Drop Pod with Purifiers. The Drop Pod is most certainly a Deep Striking unit so we need to refer to the Reserves rule to determine when it can arrive.

Combined Reserve Units

... Similarly, you must specify if any units in Reserve are embarked upon any Transport vehicles in Reserve, in which case they will arrive together. In either case, when making a Reserve Roll (see below) for a combined unit, roll a single dice for the unit and/or its Independent Character/Transport vehicle.

So here it defines a unit inside a transport in reserves as a combined unit. A Drop Pod with Purifiers is a combined unit and must arrive together. You roll for the combined unit (see bolded) by rolling for the unit AND/OR it's transport. Due to poor wording, this gives me many options for rolling for the combined unit.

I can do any of the following to determine of a combined unit arrives from Reserves:
Roll for the transport (Drop Pod).
Roll for the unit (Purifiers).
Roll for both.

I choose to roll for the Purifiers.

Drop Pod Assault: Drop Pods and units embarked upon them must be held in Deep Strike Reserves. At the beginning of your first turn, half your Drop Pods (rounding up) automatically arrive from Reserve. The arrival of remaining Drop Pods is rolled for normally.

Rites of Teleportation: Instead of making Reserve Rolls from the start of your turn two, you can make Reserve Rolls for any unit in this Formation that is placed in Deep Strike Reserve from the start of your turn one. These units will arrive from Deep Strike Reserve on turn one on the roll of 3+. In addition, all units from this Formation can both Run and Shoot, in any order, in the same turn that they arrive from Deep Strike Reserve.

Here we see that Purifiers are placed in Deep Strike Reserves via the Drop Pod Assault rule. Then via the RoT rule, they have permission to make a Reserve Roll from turn 1 because they are in Deep Strike Reserve. So, via the Combined Reserve Units rule, I can roll for the unit (Purifiers) to see see if the combined unit (Purifiers and Drop Pod) may arrive from Reserves. So there I have permission to roll on turn 1.

Now that we've determined the combined unit (Drop Pod and Purifiers) are ready to arrive from Reserves, we can go back to the Deep Strike rule and continue from where we left off. That's when the Drop Pod's rules kick in again in order to show how you Deep Strike a Drop Pod with models inside. (I don't have those rules available but I'm sure they're common enough since Drop Pods are used all the time.)

I've followed all the rules linearly and can't find a conflict.

All these nay sayers either need to shut up and move on, or point out a rule, "page and graph ", where it actually denies the pro's their rules.


Black/nos/xeno, you three are the only ones still arguing against, and it is just out of the inabioity to accept that you are wrong. The three rules that allow this to work have been quoted on at least 8 out of 11 pages, and all of your responses have lacked any actual rules support, all that you've managed to do is clutter up the raw answers, and make it harder for anyone to find the right answers with a simple search.

No reply to this post is needed, unless you have a raw quote from the rulebook telling me why I can't roll for a component of a combined reserve unit, and when it arrives, deploy it in the order of pod/purifiers. Nothing you posted so far has said that I can not do that. Any further posts of the same will just serve to keep this thread foingf in circles.

Shucks, thought I was on ignore.

RAW has been provided.

You MUST deploy "them" - the purifiers - by placing one model. Failing to do breaks the DS rules, following breaks the DPA rules.

You roll for the combined unit - what allows you to use part of the combined unit to set when you can turn up? Nothing in the combined unit rules allows you to inspect each unit component, reveal when it is able to roll, and set the "best" one as the roll and turn for the combined unit.

You havent given any RAW that allows you to break the DS rules by deploying the pod first, of course. You handwave that nugget away.

greytalon666 wrote:
All these nay sayers either need to shut up and move on, or point out a rule, "page and graph ", where it actually denies the pro's their rules.


Black/nos/xeno, you three are the only ones still arguing against, and it is just out of the inabioity to accept that you are wrong. The three rules that allow this to work have been quoted on at least 8 out of 11 pages, and all of your responses have lacked any actual rules support, all that you've managed to do is clutter up the raw answers, and make it harder for anyone to find the right answers with a simple search.

No reply to this post is needed, unless you have a raw quote from the rulebook telling me why I can't roll for a component of a combined reserve unit, and when it arrives, deploy it in the order of pod/purifiers. Nothing you posted so far has said that I can not do that. Any further posts of the same will just serve to keep this thread foingf in circles.

Because rolling for "a component" is forcing it to deploy on the table. RaW:

Roll for the arrival of all Deep Striking units as specified in the rules for Reserves and then deploy them as follows:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Shucks, thought I was on ignore.

RAW has been provided.

You MUST deploy "them" - the purifiers - by placing one model. Failing to do breaks the DS rules, following breaks the DPA rules.

You roll for the combined unit - what allows you to use part of the combined unit to set when you can turn up? Nothing in the combined unit rules allows you to inspect each unit component, reveal when it is able to roll, and set the "best" one as the roll and turn for the combined unit.

You havent given any RAW that allows you to break the DS rules by deploying the pod first, of course. You handwave that nugget away.

Right, but you haven't given a rule that prevents the Purifiers from arriving from Deep Strike Reserves, either, except that they have no mechanism to do so.

Except that they do, which is how they got into DS reserves in the first place.

But they can't bring it in because of a General Rule saying when Reserves arrive, so they don't come in.

So their specific rule just got overridden by a General Rule.

That changes my understanding of how 40k works pretty dramatically.

Zimko wrote:
Reposting relevant rules.

Roll for the arrival of all Deep Striking units as specified in the rules for Reserves and then deploy them as follows:

Ok. So we have a Drop Pod with Purifiers. The Drop Pod is most certainly a Deep Striking unit so we need to refer to the Reserves rule to determine when it can arrive. Whichever Unit rolls for the arrival will be deployed as follows.

Combined Reserve Units

... Similarly, you must specify if any units in Reserve are embarked upon any Transport vehicles in Reserve, in which case they will arrive together. In either case, when making a Reserve Roll (see below) for a combined unit, roll a single dice for the unit and/or its Independent Character/Transport vehicle.

So here it defines a unit inside a transport in reserves as a combined unit. A Drop Pod with Purifiers is a combined unit and must arrive together. You roll for the combined unit (see bolded) by rolling for the unit AND/OR it's transport. Due to poor wording, this gives me many options for rolling for the combined unit.

I can do any of the following to determine of a combined unit arrives from Reserves:
Roll for the transport (Drop Pod).
Roll for the unit (Purifiers).
Roll for both.

I choose to roll for the Purifiers.

Drop Pod Assault: Drop Pods and units embarked upon them must be held in Deep Strike Reserves. At the beginning of your first turn, half your Drop Pods (rounding up) automatically arrive from Reserve. The arrival of remaining Drop Pods is rolled for normally.

Rites of Teleportation: Instead of making Reserve Rolls from the start of your turn two, you can make Reserve Rolls for any unit in this Formation that is placed in Deep Strike Reserve from the start of your turn one. These units will arrive from Deep Strike Reserve on turn one on the roll of 3+. In addition, all units from this Formation can both Run and Shoot, in any order, in the same turn that they arrive from Deep Strike Reserve.

Here we see that Purifiers are placed in Deep Strike Reserves via the Drop Pod Assault rule. Then via the RoT rule, they have permission to make a Reserve Roll from turn 1 because they are in Deep Strike Reserve. So, via the Combined Reserve Units rule, I can roll for the unit (Purifiers) to see see if the combined unit (Purifiers and Drop Pod) may arrive from Reserves. So there I have permission to roll on turn 1.

Now that we've determined the combined unit (Drop Pod and Purifiers) are ready to arrive from Reserves, we can go back to the Deep Strike rule and continue from where we left off. (We now place the Purifiers that rolled to arrive on the table, per "deploy them as follows")

Oh snap, i can't continue with the following, the passengers are already on the table:
That's when the Drop Pod's rules kick in again in order to show how you Deep Strike a Drop Pod with models inside. (I don't have those rules available but I'm sure they're common enough since Drop Pods are used all the time.)

I've followed all the rules linearly and can't find a conflict.

I've corrected your post in red above.

 BlackTalos wrote:

Zimko wrote:
Reposting relevant rules.

Roll for the arrival of all Deep Striking units as specified in the rules for Reserves and then deploy them as follows:

Ok. So we have a Drop Pod with Purifiers. The Drop Pod is most certainly a Deep Striking unit so we need to refer to the Reserves rule to determine when it can arrive. Whichever Unit rolls for the arrival will be deployed as follows.

Combined Reserve Units

... Similarly, you must specify if any units in Reserve are embarked upon any Transport vehicles in Reserve, in which case they will arrive together. In either case, when making a Reserve Roll (see below) for a combined unit, roll a single dice for the unit and/or its Independent Character/Transport vehicle.

So here it defines a unit inside a transport in reserves as a combined unit. A Drop Pod with Purifiers is a combined unit and must arrive together. You roll for the combined unit (see bolded) by rolling for the unit AND/OR it's transport. Due to poor wording, this gives me many options for rolling for the combined unit.

I can do any of the following to determine of a combined unit arrives from Reserves:
Roll for the transport (Drop Pod).
Roll for the unit (Purifiers).
Roll for both.

I choose to roll for the Purifiers.

Drop Pod Assault: Drop Pods and units embarked upon them must be held in Deep Strike Reserves. At the beginning of your first turn, half your Drop Pods (rounding up) automatically arrive from Reserve. The arrival of remaining Drop Pods is rolled for normally.

Rites of Teleportation: Instead of making Reserve Rolls from the start of your turn two, you can make Reserve Rolls for any unit in this Formation that is placed in Deep Strike Reserve from the start of your turn one. These units will arrive from Deep Strike Reserve on turn one on the roll of 3+. In addition, all units from this Formation can both Run and Shoot, in any order, in the same turn that they arrive from Deep Strike Reserve.

Here we see that Purifiers are placed in Deep Strike Reserves via the Drop Pod Assault rule. Then via the RoT rule, they have permission to make a Reserve Roll from turn 1 because they are in Deep Strike Reserve. So, via the Combined Reserve Units rule, I can roll for the unit (Purifiers) to see see if the combined unit (Purifiers and Drop Pod) may arrive from Reserves. So there I have permission to roll on turn 1.

Now that we've determined the combined unit (Drop Pod and Purifiers) are ready to arrive from Reserves, we can go back to the Deep Strike rule and continue from where we left off. (We now place the Purifiers that rolled to arrive on the table, per "deploy them as follows")

Oh snap, i can't continue with the following, the passengers are already on the table:
That's when the Drop Pod's rules kick in again in order to show how you Deep Strike a Drop Pod with models inside. (I don't have those rules available but I'm sure they're common enough since Drop Pods are used all the time.)

I've followed all the rules linearly and can't find a conflict.

I've corrected your post in red above.

So are you saying the Purifiers Deep Strike independently of the pod?

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Shucks, thought I was on ignore.

RAW has been provided.

You MUST deploy "them" - the purifiers - by placing one model. Failing to do breaks the DS rules, following breaks the DPA rules.

You roll for the combined unit - what allows you to use part of the combined unit to set when you can turn up? Nothing in the combined unit rules allows you to inspect each unit component, reveal when it is able to roll, and set the "best" one as the roll and turn for the combined unit.

You havent given any RAW that allows you to break the DS rules by deploying the pod first, of course. You handwave that nugget away.

Right, but you haven't given a rule that prevents the Purifiers from arriving from Deep Strike Reserves, either, except that they have no mechanism to do so.

Except that they do, which is how they got into DS reserves in the first place.

Slightly incorrect. They do arrive from Deep Strike Reserves: they disembarked from the Drop Pod.
They got into "Deep Strike Reserves" because the Drop Pod rules say so.

 BlackTalos wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Shucks, thought I was on ignore.

RAW has been provided.

You MUST deploy "them" - the purifiers - by placing one model. Failing to do breaks the DS rules, following breaks the DPA rules.

You roll for the combined unit - what allows you to use part of the combined unit to set when you can turn up? Nothing in the combined unit rules allows you to inspect each unit component, reveal when it is able to roll, and set the "best" one as the roll and turn for the combined unit.

You havent given any RAW that allows you to break the DS rules by deploying the pod first, of course. You handwave that nugget away.

Right, but you haven't given a rule that prevents the Purifiers from arriving from Deep Strike Reserves, either, except that they have no mechanism to do so.

Except that they do, which is how they got into DS reserves in the first place.

Slightly incorrect. They do arrive from Deep Strike Reserves: they disembarked from the Drop Pod.
They got into "Deep Strike Reserves" because the Drop Pod rules say so.

Wait, so they can bring the pod on Turn 1? I thought you were against that position.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

 BlackTalos wrote:

Zimko wrote:
Reposting relevant rules.

Roll for the arrival of all Deep Striking units as specified in the rules for Reserves and then deploy them as follows:

Ok. So we have a Drop Pod with Purifiers. The Drop Pod is most certainly a Deep Striking unit so we need to refer to the Reserves rule to determine when it can arrive. Whichever Unit rolls for the arrival will be deployed as follows.

Combined Reserve Units

... Similarly, you must specify if any units in Reserve are embarked upon any Transport vehicles in Reserve, in which case they will arrive together. In either case, when making a Reserve Roll (see below) for a combined unit, roll a single dice for the unit and/or its Independent Character/Transport vehicle.

So here it defines a unit inside a transport in reserves as a combined unit. A Drop Pod with Purifiers is a combined unit and must arrive together. You roll for the combined unit (see bolded) by rolling for the unit AND/OR it's transport. Due to poor wording, this gives me many options for rolling for the combined unit.

I can do any of the following to determine of a combined unit arrives from Reserves:
Roll for the transport (Drop Pod).
Roll for the unit (Purifiers).
Roll for both.

I choose to roll for the Purifiers.

Drop Pod Assault: Drop Pods and units embarked upon them must be held in Deep Strike Reserves. At the beginning of your first turn, half your Drop Pods (rounding up) automatically arrive from Reserve. The arrival of remaining Drop Pods is rolled for normally.

Rites of Teleportation: Instead of making Reserve Rolls from the start of your turn two, you can make Reserve Rolls for any unit in this Formation that is placed in Deep Strike Reserve from the start of your turn one. These units will arrive from Deep Strike Reserve on turn one on the roll of 3+. In addition, all units from this Formation can both Run and Shoot, in any order, in the same turn that they arrive from Deep Strike Reserve.

Here we see that Purifiers are placed in Deep Strike Reserves via the Drop Pod Assault rule. Then via the RoT rule, they have permission to make a Reserve Roll from turn 1 because they are in Deep Strike Reserve. So, via the Combined Reserve Units rule, I can roll for the unit (Purifiers) to see see if the combined unit (Purifiers and Drop Pod) may arrive from Reserves. So there I have permission to roll on turn 1.

Now that we've determined the combined unit (Drop Pod and Purifiers) are ready to arrive from Reserves, we can go back to the Deep Strike rule and continue from where we left off. (We now place the Purifiers that rolled to arrive on the table, per "deploy them as follows")

Oh snap, i can't continue with the following, the passengers are already on the table:
That's when the Drop Pod's rules kick in again in order to show how you Deep Strike a Drop Pod with models inside. (I don't have those rules available but I'm sure they're common enough since Drop Pods are used all the time.)

I've followed all the rules linearly and can't find a conflict.

I've corrected your post in red above.

So are you saying the Purifiers Deep Strike independently of the pod?

No, they are in Deep Strike Reserves together. They are Deep Striking together. But when you deploy the Pod by Deep Strike, then Purifiers then disembark from the arrived Pod.
I am just showing that it is impossible to roll Reserves for the Purifiers.
The Combined Unit can Roll, and the Pod can roll (although i'd disagree that it could). They may or may not benefit from RoT upon doing so...

BlackTalos wrote:

confoo22 wrote:

 BlackTalos wrote:
[Yes they are, but the Rules for Deep Strike ask that you deploy the Unit you rolled for:

"Roll for the arrival of all Deep Striking units as specified in the rules for Reserves and then deploy them as follows:"

And in this case the rules for Reserves will refer you to combined units which will tell you that any combined unit must arrive all at once and then will be deployed via deep strike using the modified drop pod rules.

Correct, and these rules require you "First, place one model from the unit anywhere on the table, in the position where you would like it to arrive," of the Unit you just rolled for (The Purifiers)

Feel like going in circles yet?

We're not going in circles, you keep going back to your starting point without a connection. Those rules are superseded by the drop pod because the purifiers arrive in their transport a la the combined units reserve rule. The rule you're quoting does not take effect in this case because they are in a drop pod and are governed by the rules of arriving by that drop pod. So instead of the infantry being the first model in the unit placed, it's the transport, just like it is in a thousand other games, except that it comes in on turn one instead.

BlackTalos wrote:"all models in the unit must have the Deep Strike special rule and the unit must start the game in Reserve. When placing the unit in Reserve, you must tell your opponent that it will be arriving by Deep Strike (sometimes called Deep Strike Reserve)".

This rule says that all models must have DS (Purifiers do not), and that upon placing the Unit (Drop Pod) in reserves, it goes into Deep Strike Reserve.
This does not mean that ALL unit in "Deep Strike Reserve" are arriving by Deep Strike.

Only that units arriving by Deep Strike must be in Deep Strike Reserve.

A Includes B.
It does not mean B must include A.
Simple logic.

How can you say that with the rule right there? It's a combined unit, so the whole unit arrives from DS Reserves, so the whole unit is arriving from Deep Strike Here's the part of the rule that states that: "it [the unit] will be arriving by Deep Strike (sometimes called Deep Strike Reserve". There it is, Deep Strike is the same as Deep Strike Reserve. The terms are interchangeable, this part of the sentence spells that out for you. As per the rule, they want you to know that arriving from DS Reserve is the same as arriving by Deep Strike. There is no difference.

nosferatu1001 wrote:The rules do not give permission for you to ignore the turn requirement on individual component units of the combined units. They are, in fact, utterly silent in this regard. Meaning there is no permission to break these rules.

The permission is given in the NSF detachment rules for the purifiers to roll on turn one. Since it's a combined unit everything arrives at the same time. This is not a contested point.

nosferatu1001 wrote:The rules for combined units require you to deploy the unit you rolled for, as per the DS rules. Given you cannot perform this action AND cmply with the DPA rules, you have broken a rule - and have no permission to do so.

You absolutely can comply with both, as I've explained numerous times throughout this thread.

nosferatu1001 wrote:So instead of saying these have been proven, prove how exactly how you roll for purifiers, but change "them" to be the drop pod. The rules do not allow it, but please - page and graph.

Please read back through previous posts because I've cited rules, explained process and shown several times how this is possible.

Nos, you are on ignore, but people quoting you are not. Also, ignore just collapses your posts, not removes them entirely, so I cash always see when you are failing to add anything new to the discussion.

When a combined unit arrives, the controlling player deploys that combined unit in the order he chooses, because when multiple things happen at the exact same time, controlling player is always given permission to choose the order.

As has been said many times, you can't place the purifiers first, so obviously you place their transport first, then the purifiers.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

 BlackTalos wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Shucks, thought I was on ignore.

RAW has been provided.

You MUST deploy "them" - the purifiers - by placing one model. Failing to do breaks the DS rules, following breaks the DPA rules.

You roll for the combined unit - what allows you to use part of the combined unit to set when you can turn up? Nothing in the combined unit rules allows you to inspect each unit component, reveal when it is able to roll, and set the "best" one as the roll and turn for the combined unit.

You havent given any RAW that allows you to break the DS rules by deploying the pod first, of course. You handwave that nugget away.

Right, but you haven't given a rule that prevents the Purifiers from arriving from Deep Strike Reserves, either, except that they have no mechanism to do so.

Except that they do, which is how they got into DS reserves in the first place.

Slightly incorrect. They do arrive from Deep Strike Reserves: they disembarked from the Drop Pod.
They got into "Deep Strike Reserves" because the Drop Pod rules say so.

Wait, so they can bring the pod on Turn 1? I thought you were against that position.

Possibly. I do not want to get involved in the mess that is whether RoT applies or not.....

But i would insist that rolling only for the Purifiers is incorrect. Just as saying that they arrive "by Deep Strike" is incorrect.