Tyranids 8th ed Tactica - The Great Devourer is Nigh

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**nickthewise**

Has anyone thought of good synergistic combos with Genestealer Cult?

**GodDamUser**

nickthewise wrote:
Has anyone thought of good synergistic combos with Genestealer Cult?

There really isn't much, the only direct cross over between the two is the Tyranid Psy powers can effect both

But the Mass Hypnosis can be very useful for a Tyranid charge (same as GSC units)

**rvd1ofakind**

So what are the best units. Asking for a friend.

So far I faced nids 2 times and the only ones that left any kind of impression were Genestealers and Broodlords (Which are INSANE)

**Siphen**

luke1705 wrote:
Siphen wrote:
I'm going to ask a somewhat controversial question...Is the Swarmlord actually worth taking?

Yes.

Spoiler:

To expand on that, force multiplication is the most OP thing there is (other than perhaps genestealers). The reason why the malanthrope was so great was because it gave an effective 2+/3++ to any bug we put in cover. This was because almost anything that had ignores cover likely was not also AP 3.

With the Swarmlord, the importance of doubling the move characteristic (and doubling the advance move of genestealers or the target of a successful catalyst) would be difficult to overstate. You're getting to the enemy a turn sooner, literally. How do you protect our bugs from guns? Get them to combat. Sure, units can fall back, but if we get enough units there, it will nullify the shooting of much of the opponent's army. I fully expect to be using the swarmlord's ability on the dimachaeron turn 1 (assuming he isn't trash), himself turn 2, and whoever needs it turn 3.

The fact that he can be singled out is a real threat, which is why tyrant guard are so important. I would never leave home without 3, but I've never felt that they weren't worth their points. Getting the Swarmlord into CC unscathed is literally amazing. This will almost always happen, whether it's by the guard taking one for the team or them just deciding they have more pressing things to worry about and not shooting swarmy at all because of his retinue.

And just a quick aside on turn 1 charges - people are naysaying them because "people can castle/bubble wrap". Those people are not wrong. But you give up other things in order to do that (board control, the units you send to die). And regardless of how effective the initial charge is, the fact that we can have one makes literally all the difference in the world. The reason why we never took assault Carnifexes before was because they would always die before they got to combat. Pod in Old One Eye. Nearly 50% success rate with the CP re-roll for a T1 charge. Give OOE Swarmy's double move and catalyst. Hugely likely he makes combat T2, and an outside possibility he could make it turn 1 if your opponent doesn't respect his threat range.

^^which is the biggest reason why swarmy is such a big deal. Doubling the threat range of whatever unit you deem most important literally opens up doors, and it's very difficult for even a good opponent to see these things coming. I rolled a 5 with my genestealers on their advance, a 4 on their Swarmlord advance...that's a 25" move before the assault even happens. Totally caught my opponent off guard because they started the turn over 2 feet away and then moved an additional 8" on their charge plus 3" pile in. That's slightly above average roll, and they moved 36" in one turn! Insane! When any of your units can do that, the things it does to your threat range are incredible. In a heartbeat, I would take 2 swarmlords if I could. 3 might be a bit much but it wouldn't be awful

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh and you know, he just happens to be synapse, Shadow in the warp, a ML3 psyker, and a giant CC beat stick. I mean, what else could we even ask for?

**Zande4**

How are you all playing Tyrant and Hive Guard at the moment? 3-6 or 1-3

List I'm thinking of changes a little bit depending on the official FAQ

HQ:

Swarmlord
Broodlord
Patriarch

Troops:

24 Hormagaunts
24 Hormagaunts
24 Hormagaunts
20 Genestealers with Toxin Sacs

Elites:

Tyrant Guard with Toxin Sacs and Adrenal Glands
Tyrant Guard with Toxin Sacs and Adrenal Glands

Heavy Support:

Trygon Prime with Toxin Spike
Trygon Prime with Toxin Spike
Trygon Prime with Toxin Spike

Hormies in with the Trygons and GS using Swarmies ability to get up with them asap.

Now if Tyrant Guard have to be in squads of 3+ I'm in trouble, one because I'm out of points and 2 because I need at least 6 units on the board.

Would probably swap them out for 2 10 man squads of Termagants and drop a single Hormagaunt from a squad. I'd use the Termagants to protect the Broodlord and Patriarch once the GS take off

**GodDamUser**

Do note with that list.. if you are double moving the Genestealers, the Patriarch and Broodlord wont be double moving with them

**Zande4**

GodDamUser wrote:
Do note with that list.. if you are double moving the Genestealers, the Patriarch and Broodlord wont be double moving with them

Yeah they will be with swarmy catching up on turn 2. They should stay relatively free of incoming fire considering what will be knocking the enemy door

**pinecone77**

nickthewise wrote:
Speaking of turn 1 assaults and threat overload... I am thinking of running the following combination:

Trygon Prime + 30 Termagaunts with Devourers
Trygon + 15 Genestealers (can 20 fit without blocking the Trygon?)
Tyrannocyte + Swarmlord

For this set-up Genestealers are almost assured a charge using the Swarmlords ability. The Trygon also have a good chance with adrenal glands. I could spend a command point to re-roll for the Swarmlord to get him in as well. The Gaunts shoot and act as a screen for the Prime, who will try to assault the next turn.

My question is, how would you fill out the rest of the army? I don't have the exact points, but I think the above 6 units come out to around 1350 points. Not a whole lot of leeway in building a 6 unit force to start on the table.

Thoughts / feedback are welcome.

One thing you need to consider, you can only use the swarmlords Power if it's on the table, so podding it might cause you "issues"

**Razerous**

Siphen wrote:
I'm going to ask a somewhat controversial question...Is the Swarmlord actually worth taking?

In my list, I had the Swarmlord come down in a bare bones Tyrannocyte. That's 437 points. For the same cost, you could have THREE Hive Tyrants. And the only thing he really brings to the table is that Hive Commander rule.

Obviously, moving twice is insanely powerful, but is it actually worth the extra ~150 points over a regular Hive Tyrant? (I'm not saying he's bad - just want to spark some discussion)

I would, if only for the str8. He is one of the few (only?) decent high str melee units.

Anything that can take Str x 2 weapons are generally bad, I feel.

**Lance845**

Shrieks are 6 more points than warriors for 6 more inches of movement. Is there any reason to take standard warriors unless they are baby sitting biovores/exocrines in the back field?

**Spoletta**

Lance845 wrote:
Shrieks are 6 more points than warriors for 6 more inches of movement. Is there any reason to take standard warriors unless they are baby sitting biovores/exocrines in the back field?

6 points on a 20-25 point model are a lot, and they are not troops.

**KurtAngle2**

Spoletta wrote:
Lance845 wrote:
Shrieks are 6 more points than warriors for 6 more inches of movement. Is there any reason to take standard warriors unless they are baby sitting biovores/exocrines in the back field?

6 points on a 20-25 point model are a lot, and they are not troops.

Who cares if they are Troops in this edition, +6" and Fly is IMMENSE for only 6 points

**Spoletta**

Troops in this edition are more important than ever, do not underestimate how powerful CPs are.
Fly is good, but shrikes and warriors are melee oriented units. Fly does not allow you to fall back and charge a different target.

**wizerdree**

Any troops also can come with the Trygon so if you wanted some synapse with the deep strikers without paying for a trygon prime.

**luke1705**

pinecone77 wrote:
nickthewise wrote:
Speaking of turn 1 assaults and threat overload... I am thinking of running the following combination:

Trygon Prime + 30 Termagaunts with Devourers
Trygon + 15 Genestealers (can 20 fit without blocking the Trygon?)
Tyrannocyte + Swarmlord

For this set-up Genestealers are almost assured a charge using the Swarmlords ability. The Trygon also have a good chance with adrenal glands. I could spend a command point to re-roll for the Swarmlord to get him in as well. The Gaunts shoot and act as a screen for the Prime, who will try to assault the next turn.

My question is, how would you fill out the rest of the army? I don't have the exact points, but I think the above 6 units come out to around 1350 points. Not a whole lot of leeway in building a 6 unit force to start on the table.

Thoughts / feedback are welcome.

One thing you need to consider, you can only use the swarmlords Power if it's on the table, so podding it might cause you "issues"

Only if you don't bring Swarmy in on turn 1. His ability goes off in the shooting phase

**StarHunter25**

Lance845 wrote:
Shrieks are 6 more points than warriors for 6 more inches of movement. Is there any reason to take standard warriors unless they are baby sitting biovores/exocrines in the back field?

I agree on shrikes being fantastic. I'm going to try a brick if 9 with bonesword and deathspitters to run with along two big broods of gargoyles. A flaking force to harass heavy weapon teams and light vehicles.

**KurtAngle2**

Spoletta wrote:
Troops in this edition are more important than ever, do not underestimate how powerful CPs are.
Fly is good, but shrikes and warriors are melee oriented units. Fly does not allow you to fall back and charge a different target.

You know the Fly keyword lets you charge and move across models as if they were not there?

**babelfish**

Lance845 wrote:
Shrieks are 6 more points than warriors for 6 more inches of movement. Is there any reason to take standard warriors unless they are baby sitting biovores/exocrines in the back field?

Not really, but they are very efficient at babysitting and the changes to venom cannons mean they have a reasonable chance of doing some damage while the stand around.

Scything talons and devourers + a venom cannon = 70 points for 3. Rending = 85 for 3.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

StarHunter25 wrote:
Lance845 wrote:
Shrieks are 6 more points than warriors for 6 more inches of movement. Is there any reason to take standard warriors unless they are baby sitting biovores/exocrines in the back field?

I agree on shrikes being fantastic. I'm going to try a brick if 9 with bonesword and deathspitters to run with along two big broods of gargoyles. A flaking force to harass heavy weapon teams and light vehicles.

I have been thinking about a similar unit of warriors in a pod/Trygon to back up a few units of stealers.

**KurtAngle2**

Shrikes with boneswords and deathspitters are really great guys, give them a try alongside fast units

**killerpenguin**

Has anyone tried putting a Haruspex in a tyrannocyte for a early charge? T:8 W:13 seems like a tough nut to crack.

**wizerdree**

I haven't bought warriors recently but I thought I read somewhere they got moved to a 50mm base? With Trygon rules saying all models within the unit must be wholly placed within 3" can you fit more than a single ring of warriors around him after placement?

**pinecone77**

luke1705 wrote:
pinecone77 wrote:
nickthewise wrote:
Speaking of turn 1 assaults and threat overload... I am thinking of running the following combination:

Trygon Prime + 30 Termagaunts with Devourers
Trygon + 15 Genestealers (can 20 fit without blocking the Trygon?)
Tyrannocyte + Swarmlord

For this set-up Genestealers are almost assured a charge using the Swarmlords ability. The Trygon also have a good chance with adrenal glands. I could spend a command point to re-roll for the Swarmlord to get him in as well. The Gaunts shoot and act as a screen for the Prime, who will try to assault the next turn.

My question is, how would you fill out the rest of the army? I don't have the exact points, but I think the above 6 units come out to around 1350 points. Not a whole lot of leeway in building a 6 unit force to start on the table.

Thoughts / feedback are welcome.

One thing you need to consider, you can only use the swarmlords Power if it's on the table, so podding it might cause you "issues"

Only if you don't bring Swarmy in on turn 1. His ability goes off in the shooting phase

Yep, easy to forget and wrong foot yourself so it bears mention.

**Zande4**

babelfish wrote:

Scything talons and devourers + a venom cannon = 70 points for 3. Rending = 85 for 3.

.

I think you've got your points mixed up.

3 Warriors, 2 devourers, 1 venom cannon and 3 scything talons is 77 points

3 Warriors, 3 scything talons and 3 rending claws is 66 points

3 Warriors, 3 rending claws, 2 devourers and 1 venom cannon is 83 points.

Devourers are 4p, Venom Cannon is 9p, scything talons are free an rending claws are 2p

**Nasty**

Hi all, can someone explane me how the new dakkaflyrant work? The double devourer/deathspitter is assoult 3, but i can run 4 of it for 12 shot that's what i understand.
But the new twin-linked rules now say that all tipe of twin weapon now double the number of shot insted of repeat the hit, like the twin assoult cannon, 6 shot, but with twin 12, or some gun of orks that have the rule more dakka ( twin ).
That kind of rules can be applied on double gun of a hive tyrant ? ( sry for bad english )

**astro_nomicon**

Nasty wrote:
Hi all, can someone explane me how the new dakkaflyrant work? The double devourer/deathspitter is assoult 3, but i can run 4 of it for 12 shot that's what i understand.
But the new twin-linked rules now say that all tipe of twin weapon now double the number of shot insted of repeat the hit, like the twin assoult cannon, 6 shot, but with twin 12, or some gun of orks that have the rule more dakka ( twin ).
That kind of rules can be applied on double gun of a hive tyrant ? ( sry for bad english )

If you max out on devourers or Deathspitters the most shots you can get is 12 (same as before) but now there are no rerolls. So it was a flat out nerf to dakka Flyrants. Fortunately they are better at beating face now.

**pinecone77**

And they can Smite evry chance they get for some extra Mortal wounds

Automatically Appended Next Post:
I've been thinking some.

And I think one of the "hidden" ballences in 8th is that Horde armies are very strong

But will almost always have to weather an alpha strike. Really any "elite" army that goes second has messed up, and will pay a price.

**luke1705**

pinecone77 wrote:
And they can Smite evry chance they get for some extra Mortal wounds

Automatically Appended Next Post:
I've been thinking some. And I think one of the "hidden" ballences in 8th is that Horde armies are very strong But will almost always have to weather an alpha strike. Really any "elite" army that goes second has messed up, and will pay a price.

That's why the 20 man genestealer unit (with or without toxin sacs) is such an amazing troops unit. One of the best in the game for sure. Goes first, avoids and alpha strike if you Trygon them in....all around awesomeness.

**pinecone77**

Yep

I'm still figuring on using a Brigade, with Two trygons, and Two Mawlocs currently. I won't have a solid idea till I can read the rules without flipping back and forth.

But I Plan on a max of 6 units to drop, and 6 units to DS.

I want the on table to take the Alpha, and hold objectives, and the DS force to destroy the enemy.

I ams seriously thinking of using GSC+ corrupted Astra Militaria for the on table force, maybe even a Fort of some kind.

**luke1705**

Would be cool. I'm looking at 8 total drops at 2k, with 5 units deployed and 5 units in reserves.

When we deploy our units in a Trygon tunnel, that still counts as 2 units for the purposes of "half the army in reserves", right?

**pinecone77**

I believe so, same as a Transport. So placing a Trygon+ Unit is two drops used. So for set up..."I reserve a Mawloc, I set a Mawloc, I set a Trygon with a Unit, I set a Trygon with a unit, Then "I place unit A Here. so you Should get to counter deploy fairly often, even vs a Elite. GK or the like might well have 3 in reserve, 3 on the Table.