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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Connecticut

Trust me, makes me sad as well. I just built and painted my 30th Screamer. Unless things change, I likely won't use them again. WS4 and only 3 attacks on them, at S4 (5 w/ a Herald) makes them about as pillow fisted as a ham sandwhich.

Exalted Flamers and Heralds will be my special boys for now.

Blood Angels, Custodes, Tzeentch, Alpha Legion, Astra Militarum, Deathwatch, Thousand Sons, Imperial Knights, Tau, Genestealer Cult.

I have a problem.

Being contrary for the sake of being contrary doesn't make you unique, it makes you annoying.

 Purifier wrote:
Using your rules isn't being a dick.
 
   
Made in us
Dangerous Skeleton Captain




Baltimore

while pillow-fisted, they're fast enough to tag enemy non-flying shooty units, dampening incoming fire against the rest of your army as the tagged unit is forced to withdraw. Bubble wrapping of course limits this, but still.

.............

Also, Marked Dreadclaws and Kharybdis Assault Claws can transport like-aligned daemon infantry. I'm not sure how much this helps given that the claws are pretty expensive, but the option to take a transport might help bloodletters, smite-spamming heralds, or the like.

The pursuit of knowledge requires a mind unfettered by the petty constraints of ethics, faith, or mortality.

~ Roderick Pale 
   
Made in us
Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets






Connecticut

 Cephalobeard wrote:

The power of the Changeling is NOT to be understated, giving things -1 to hit is incredibly powerful.

Army wide 4++ is also crazy. AP, Cover, none if it matters. I go where I want and do what I want.
These two things are huge, and something that a lot of people don't fully understand.

The -1 to hit gets better with armies that hit less often. For example, it halves the amount of damage you take when someone hits you normally on a 5+.
It's 50% less damage when a unit hits a on 4+, like a marine heavy weapon that has moved.
It's 33% less damage from units that hit on a 3+. This is still rock solid.

The 4++ is just slightly less effective than the nurgle 5+ with DR. DR has some perks (like being able to be rolled vs mortal wounds) but when combined with changing, the resilience on Tzeentch is better.

 Malisteen wrote:
while pillow-fisted, they're fast enough to tag enemy non-flying shooty units, dampening incoming fire against the rest of your army as the tagged unit is forced to withdraw. Bubble wrapping of course limits this, but still.
Nurglings can do a similar job for a lower cost.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/06/26 14:33:24


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Connecticut

 Malisteen wrote:
while pillow-fisted, they're fast enough to tag enemy non-flying shooty units, dampening incoming fire against the rest of your army as the tagged unit is forced to withdraw. Bubble wrapping of course limits this, but still.



I would rather just use more horrors. They're more bodies, the same saves, and 1/4th or 1/3rd the price.

My list is, almost exclusively, also Characters now at this point. It's very effective.

Blood Angels, Custodes, Tzeentch, Alpha Legion, Astra Militarum, Deathwatch, Thousand Sons, Imperial Knights, Tau, Genestealer Cult.

I have a problem.

Being contrary for the sake of being contrary doesn't make you unique, it makes you annoying.

 Purifier wrote:
Using your rules isn't being a dick.
 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Thoughts on using Maelific Lords (30pt R&H charaxter) to summon waves of brimstones into position to cover fast moving characters as you go?

DFTT 
   
Made in us
Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets






Connecticut

 Cephalobeard wrote:
My list is, almost exclusively, also Characters now at this point. It's very effective.
What is the list you are currently running?
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Connecticut

 labmouse42 wrote:
 Cephalobeard wrote:
My list is, almost exclusively, also Characters now at this point. It's very effective.
What is the list you are currently running?


8x Disc Heralds, Staves
11x Exalted Flamers
6x 1 Blue 9 Brimstones
Changeling

140 points left over for summoning.

Blood Angels, Custodes, Tzeentch, Alpha Legion, Astra Militarum, Deathwatch, Thousand Sons, Imperial Knights, Tau, Genestealer Cult.

I have a problem.

Being contrary for the sake of being contrary doesn't make you unique, it makes you annoying.

 Purifier wrote:
Using your rules isn't being a dick.
 
   
Made in us
Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets






Connecticut

Yea, I only have 4 disc heralds and 4 exalted flamers. I'm pretty far from that setup.
   
Made in us
Powerful Phoenix Lord





Dallas area, TX

Why Discs instead Chariots? It seems a very small increase in points for double the durability and extra attacks (screamers). Dropping 2 Disc herald gets you the points to upgrade the other 6 to Chariots and adds a bit more melee bite.

Side question: If you were to run Chariots, would you take Heralds or E-flamer chariots?
Heralds have Smite, but E-Flamers have shooting (and thus overwatch). Both have about the same melee.
The biggest difference I see is that the Herald retains <Character> on the chariot, whereas the E-flamer does not, but is cheaper

-

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/26 18:09:02


   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Connecticut

Discs are cheaper. That's the only reason why.

Realistically they're probably going to die quickly even if they get caught up, so I opted for more characters and more smites, as none of them will ever be able to be targetted by shooting as long as a horror or flamer is in front of them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
When you can already move 12 +Advance and still smite, as well as having staves, they have a 36+d6 Threat range for their smite, adding a little extra movement isn't a huge deal.

I'd rather have more bodies and more spells.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/26 18:39:08


Blood Angels, Custodes, Tzeentch, Alpha Legion, Astra Militarum, Deathwatch, Thousand Sons, Imperial Knights, Tau, Genestealer Cult.

I have a problem.

Being contrary for the sake of being contrary doesn't make you unique, it makes you annoying.

 Purifier wrote:
Using your rules isn't being a dick.
 
   
Made in us
Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets






Connecticut

They also have a much smaller footprint. that can be an advantage, as you can pack more into a smaller area.

If you are trying to get that aura buff, the larger footprint is userful, but that does not appear to be the goal here.
   
Made in us
Bounding Assault Marine




 labmouse42 wrote:
 Vexler wrote:
Played today with 10 Nurgle DPs with Epidemius army againts ravenwing DA twice - and won twice by wiping out my opponent; on 3rd round in 1st game without a single DP killed and on 4th in 2nd game, with only 1 DP killed.
What can I say? I ain't even mad.
My thoughts, thou:
1) Smite isn't as scary as they say - yeah, it's *quite* powerful, but not *that* powerful
2) Warp bolters have disappointed me, really - 2 DMG is good, But only STR 4 and 2 shots - that's too little for too much. Dropping 10 bolters would give me spare 90 points
3) Epidemius was good, but, well, probably good - I didn't even looked at the tally as DP raped everything in sight without it.
I'm thinking of going with some nurgling support and going with 9 princes.

There are some rough matches. Triple knights will suck -- esp with a chainsword. The biggest thing that has hurt my princes have been multi-wound weapons. A weapon that does a flat 6 wounds is scary. 2 hits and a prince goes down.
TONS of bodies would also be rough. 70 attacks a turn don't really help if you are only killing 20 brimstones a turn. Guard can also spam conscripts to do the same thing.

That's why I don't think it's a GT winning army. You might just have a bad matchup and lose.
But for RTT or local games it's hell on heels.


I did this past weekend something similar. 9 dps of nurgle + belakor + 7 nurglings. got Third because of time on first match was tie and the guy I played against didn't understand the whole consolidate rule and I didn't feel like like going through the whole explaination when time was already called and just settled for the tie score. From there, the last two folk I just boarded. 3rd out of 18 with a list that hasn't suffered a loss yet? Yea I think I feel alright with it.

I've tried considering epid for th elist but the princes don't benefit till further down the list and if you reached the poitn where you are benefitting, then more often then not you are close to boarding or wrecking who you are goign up against at least that's how I've seen in the games that I have had so far.

Honestly considering though dropping belakor, nurglings, and 2 princes for Aetos >: D
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Connecticut

 labmouse42 wrote:
They also have a much smaller footprint. that can be an advantage, as you can pack more into a smaller area.

If you are trying to get that aura buff, the larger footprint is userful, but that does not appear to be the goal here.


More bodies under the changeling, more smites, more things to tie up other units to prevent shooting, etc.

Not counting melee, if would take 4 knights 3 Turns of killing JUST EXALTED FLAMERS before they could ever target a Herald, minimum.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/26 18:57:10


Blood Angels, Custodes, Tzeentch, Alpha Legion, Astra Militarum, Deathwatch, Thousand Sons, Imperial Knights, Tau, Genestealer Cult.

I have a problem.

Being contrary for the sake of being contrary doesn't make you unique, it makes you annoying.

 Purifier wrote:
Using your rules isn't being a dick.
 
   
Made in us
Powerful Phoenix Lord





Dallas area, TX

 Cephalobeard wrote:
 labmouse42 wrote:
They also have a much smaller footprint. that can be an advantage, as you can pack more into a smaller area.

If you are trying to get that aura buff, the larger footprint is userful, but that does not appear to be the goal here.


More bodies under the changeling, more smites, more things to tie up other units to prevent shooting, etc.

Not counting melee, if would take 4 knights 3 Turns of killing JUST EXALTED FLAMERS before they could ever target a Herald, minimum.

So just to clarify, Heralds on Chariots also cannot be targeted. They are still <Characters> with less than 10 wounds.

But otherwise I see what you are saying. If you are spamming Heralds, the Disc is ideal. Even though it isn't that much more for the Chariot, it adds up with 5+ Heralds
I was just thinking about taking 2, so the Chariots seemed a more obvious choice.

-

   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





So far in 8th I have only played Nurgle Epidemius lists and it has been a lot of fun. For my 2k list at some upcoming tournaments, I am turn between spending my final ~300 points on a) a GUO + 3x Nurglings (I already have several squads) or b) a second block of 30x Plague Bearers with icon and instrument (I already have a block of 30).

   
Made in us
Contagious Dreadnought of Nurgle





GUO, Are they worth it over taking a Daemon Prince of Nurgle? I really wanna field a Cultist/Zombie force led by a GUO, but it seems like anything He can do a DP does cheaper and faster, and doesn't degrade when taking wounds... Help the Fat Man find his place in my lists. They're themed fluff lists anyway but the GUO always seemed like more of a handicap. Especially since I can't drop him, and his summoning level is pretty high.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I was really helping they would gibe him a regen ability (other than his psychic powers),!like his AOS profile, or even if his power allowed him to gain additional wounds instead of just regenerating them he would be worth taking. But with the same exact stats as a Keeper of Secrets, but at half the speed I cannot justify it just yet. What am I missing.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/26 19:43:16


 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





Yeah, the GUO is overpriced, not fast enough, not survivable enough, and doesn't hit hard enough. But I have an awesome model for it, he seems fun to play, and some people here like him, so I am tempted. Might be fun to surprise people with the to-wound psychic power and suddenly he gets really lucky and puts 12 wounds on something with a single hit!

   
Made in us
Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets






Connecticut

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
GUO, Are they worth it over taking a Daemon Prince of Nurgle? I really wanna field a Cultist/Zombie force led by a GUO, but it seems like anything He can do a DP does cheaper and faster, and doesn't degrade when taking wounds... Help the Fat Man find his place in my lists. They're themed fluff lists anyway but the GUO always seemed like more of a handicap. Especially since I can't drop him, and his summoning level is pretty high.
Honestly man, I've found my GUO to be good. The fact that he hits for d6 wounds is pretty sweet. I've used him in 2 games and he's cleaned the house when he gets into assault both times.
   
Made in at
Regular Dakkanaut





Played my second game of 8th edition against Nids today.


1500 points

My list was as follow: 4 DPs (Chaosdaemon) Tzeentch, Wings, 3x Swords, 1x Double Talon
2x6 Flamer
3x3 Nurglings
2x Spawn
1x Changling

My opponent had: 2 Flyrant with double Scythes, Mawloc, Tyrannofex with Fleshborerhive, 2 Harpies with Stranglethorne, Hivecrone, 39 Gargs in two units.

We played Eternal war, Seek and Destroy

First i thought i will never win this; lots of Bodies and 7 Monsters.
But Turn 5 i tabled him completely .

The Daemonprinces were awesome, but honestly i never used the tzeentch spelllore, only smite (it did about 10~15 mortal wounds over the game).

The changeling made my flamers and princes really hard to hit (most of the nids only could hit me on 5s and maybe 6s if they were damaged).

Flamers did their job and really sucked a lot of shooting and did a ton of dmg.

Nurglings were a bit underwhelming, as they did absolutely nothing.


I liked my list a lot, but maybe i will replace the nurglings. What do you think of it?

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Connecticut

I wouldn't mix gods this edition. You don't gain anything for it.

I'd also run CSM Daemon Princes instead of Daemon ones, because iirc they can't be targeted as they're under 10 wounds. However, I may have that flip flopped. Either way, use the one that can't be targeted.

Blood Angels, Custodes, Tzeentch, Alpha Legion, Astra Militarum, Deathwatch, Thousand Sons, Imperial Knights, Tau, Genestealer Cult.

I have a problem.

Being contrary for the sake of being contrary doesn't make you unique, it makes you annoying.

 Purifier wrote:
Using your rules isn't being a dick.
 
   
Made in us
Powerful Phoenix Lord





Dallas area, TX

 Cephalobeard wrote:
I wouldn't mix gods this edition. You don't gain anything for it.

As a true Undivided Daemon player who has strove to include units from all 4 powers in EVERY list, this "truth" pisses me off.
Not only do you not gain anything by mixing, you actually suffer a bit as GDs, DPs and Heralds affects do not get as much milage.
I own over 4K of Daemons, yet I don't really have enough of any 1 god to field an 2K army

 Cephalobeard wrote:
I'd also run CSM Daemon Princes instead of Daemon ones, because iirc they can't be targeted as they're under 10 wounds. However, I may have that flip flopped. Either way, use the one that can't be targeted.

Nurgle Daemon DPs are worth it because of DR, but otherwise I agree.

   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




Can disgustingly resilient be used vs mortal wounds?
   
Made in de
Fresh-Faced New User





lbennett1991 wrote:
Can disgustingly resilient be used vs mortal wounds?

Yes.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Connecticut

 Galef wrote:
 Cephalobeard wrote:
I wouldn't mix gods this edition. You don't gain anything for it.

As a true Undivided Daemon player who has strove to include units from all 4 powers in EVERY list, this "truth" pisses me off.
Not only do you not gain anything by mixing, you actually suffer a bit as GDs, DPs and Heralds affects do not get as much milage.
I own over 4K of Daemons, yet I don't really have enough of any 1 god to field an 2K army

 Cephalobeard wrote:
I'd also run CSM Daemon Princes instead of Daemon ones, because iirc they can't be targeted as they're under 10 wounds. However, I may have that flip flopped. Either way, use the one that can't be targeted.

Nurgle Daemon DPs are worth it because of DR, but otherwise I agree.


Agreed. Nurgle DP are solid, I did forget that.

I also feel your pain, but in an opposite sense. I have around 7-8k of JUST Tzeentch, and had started investing in some nurgle for summoning options in 7th. Now it's useless to me and, luckily, I had a buddy who wanted to start Nurgle so they found a new home, but I was also hoping for a "mixed" option, but now you're somewhat forced to simply stick to one side.

Not that I mind too much, as Tzeentch has a plan for everything.

Blood Angels, Custodes, Tzeentch, Alpha Legion, Astra Militarum, Deathwatch, Thousand Sons, Imperial Knights, Tau, Genestealer Cult.

I have a problem.

Being contrary for the sake of being contrary doesn't make you unique, it makes you annoying.

 Purifier wrote:
Using your rules isn't being a dick.
 
   
Made in gb
Water-Caste Negotiator




 Cephalobeard wrote:

8x Disc Heralds, Staves
11x Exalted Flamers
6x 1 Blue 9 Brimstones
Changeling

140 points left over for summoning.


What models are you using for all those Exalted Flamers? Did you buy loads of the chariot kit, or are you using some alternative?
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Connecticut

Found an eBay listing for Chariot kits for $24 each. Bought six of them. Then found another eBay listing selling Exalted Flamer bits for $7, bought all five they had.

I've had the disc Herald's since 7th to use with a Screamer Star, cleared out the Flamers on eBay when I discovered how good they are. You'll be hard pressed to find them under $15 now.

Still, not bad price wise.

Blood Angels, Custodes, Tzeentch, Alpha Legion, Astra Militarum, Deathwatch, Thousand Sons, Imperial Knights, Tau, Genestealer Cult.

I have a problem.

Being contrary for the sake of being contrary doesn't make you unique, it makes you annoying.

 Purifier wrote:
Using your rules isn't being a dick.
 
   
Made in ca
Bush? No, Eldar Ranger



Vancouver, BC

I had a game yesterday, 1500 vs Tyranids. I don't know what it was, maybe my opponent didn't bring enough shooting [he had no Exocrine or Shooty Tyrant], or he was just unlucky with his dice, but my Daemons with Marine support darn near wiped his forces out.

A Daemon DP of Khorne used his Axe to slay a Tervigon and a Carnifex before a second Carnifex took him down. I'm not sure if I'll use the DDPK every time, but I'll sure be tempted to, as he can dish out a lot of cc hurt.

Daemonettes and a Slaanesh Herald on Steed took down a Hive Crone [I think that's the name], though Deathleaper finished them off afterwards. I think I just got lucky here.

It was my first game using Flamers, and they were key to whittling down and holding up his swarms of gaunts and gants in the center.

Plague Marines and a Helbrute in the backfield helped a LOT to contribute firepower - mostly to shoot down a dropped-in Tyrannocyte, since most of the enemy was stuck in the middle column of the board [narrow end deployment].

Karanak was underwhelming. I'll probably just switch him out for five Flesh Hounds next game. In 7th, there were more 'Characters' for him to benefit against - but now since Champions and Sergeants aren't 'characters', and actual Characters left are either backfield support or CC beasts, he has less of a purpose.

I think that multi-god lists can indeed work well, though of course not as completely efficiently or powerfully as mono-god lists.
   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




Nurgle23 wrote:
lbennett1991 wrote:
Can disgustingly resilient be used vs mortal wounds?

Yes.


I'm still unsure whether this is allowed. Most other special rules such as tyranid catalyst and elder spirit stones specifically say they protect against wounds and mortal wounds. I play chaos through and through so would love this to work, but not if classed as cheating.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




It definitely works. Don't even worry about it.

DFTT 
   
Made in us
Snord





Florida

 Cephalobeard wrote:
I wouldn't mix gods this edition. You don't gain anything for it.

I'd also run CSM Daemon Princes instead of Daemon ones, because iirc they can't be targeted as they're under 10 wounds. However, I may have that flip flopped. Either way, use the one that can't be targeted.


Their sole purpose is to cast smite and charge into combat. So, you are trying to get within 18-12" anyways. Once in melee, they are the closest model so that benefit goes out the window usually by turn 2 and definitely after you made your first assault and either wiped out their small unit/vehicle or have a larger unit or tougher vehicle fall back on you.

I prefer taking the winged, double maelific talons, Daemon version prince of Tzeentch for the extra 2 wounds and the +1 to inv. saves, all with Treason of Tzeentch. I know you can't cast Treason 3x, but with three of them I am more likely to be in the right place at the right time for a good Treason cast (they mostly cast Smite anyways).

This works for me as I usually also take Magnus and/or Be'lakor and the opponent focuses their attention on them first.

I play:
40K: Daemons, Genestealer Cults
AoS: Blades of Khorne, Disciples of Tzeentch
Warmachine: Convergence of Cyriss
Infinity: Haqqislam, Tohaa
Malifaux: Gremlins,Neverborn
Star Wars Legion: Republic & Separatists
Guild Ball: Morticians, Brewers 
   
 
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