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 Niiai wrote:
Can somebody explain the new brood brother to me?

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/06/29/faction-focus-genestealer-cults/

Brood Brothers don't have to be in separate detachment and don't break Cult rules even though they still do not benefit from Cult traits. So, you could throw in an Astra Militarum Primaris Psyker right next to your Broodlord in the same detachment to meet your two HQ.


They also specified that Cult Ambush will not cost CP.

I haven't seen it, but apparently there is a "leave combat" Strategem. If this is true then it indirectly gives a buff to Aberrants.

The current theory is that Acolytes are better than Aberrants. But in the new edition, it'll be a bit different.

Acolytes will charge, and kill stuff. Then next turn, the enemy remnants will just walk out of combat, and the Acolytes will simply get shot to pieces by the rest of the enemy army.

Same scenario with Aberrants? They will survive the enemy firestorm a hell of a lot better, especially if they are Bladed Cog or something.

thats still a massive nerf to aberrants

 Nitro Zeus wrote:
thats still a massive nerf to aberrants

It's a nerf to all melee combatants, but Aberrants will weather that situation better than anything we have.

GSC cannot really survive on shooting alone. At some point we have to mix things up, melee style

 Nitro Zeus wrote:
thats still a massive nerf to aberrants

You haven't guessed what happens to units like Sanctus that needs to be BABYSIT by something not to get targeted and how no LoS weapons are the best sniping weapons in the entire game

KurtAngle2 wrote:

 Nitro Zeus wrote:
thats still a massive nerf to aberrants

You haven't guessed what happens to units like Sanctus that needs to be BABYSIT by something not to get targeted and how no LoS weapons are the best sniping weapons in the entire game

What does that have to do with my post

Goodness me, things don't look too good for GSC, from what I can see.

What's the hive's opinion on vehicle heavy lists? Lots of ridgerunners and goliaths filled with lasers and webbers?

Or is carpet a sounder approach?

I don't think I ever managed to get GSC to work properly in 8th, let alone 9th. The only way I'd have something left on the board at the end of any game was by souping in nid artillery batteries or lots of warriors, but now that's going to cost CP rather than generate it, and GSC are already very CP-hungry...

Mad-Max vehicle spam lists might be the way to go if hordes are on their way out - changes to coherency rules and coherency checks, character targeting, and multi-charges mean that the standard GSC ambush list will need some serious rethinking, but tbh I'm not sure it was ever viable before.

(FYI I did also try the bladed cog neophyte spam list on multiple occasions - same result, everyone dead at the end of the game - may have hindered me that my group never played with the later CA missions where acceptable casualties became a rule)

 grouchoben wrote:
Goodness me, things don't look too good for GSC, from what I can see.

What's the hive's opinion on vehicle heavy lists? Lots of ridgerunners and goliaths filled with lasers and webbers?

Or is carpet a sounder approach?

TYR have it worse since GSC units can be effectively played as 10 at most (a kind of GSC MSU), also Ridgerunners seem even better (unless they increase their points by a lot) and Aberrants could make a comeback if their points do not get adjusted (since they were overpriced from the the very beginning).
The only viable Creed is gonna 100% be Bladed Cog, Hive Cult lost its niche with a maximum of +1 to hit modifers and Twisted Helix is even worse now with new strength modifier rule.

What ia the new strengt modefier rule?

 D6Damager wrote:

 Niiai wrote:
Can somebody explain the new brood brother to me?

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/06/29/faction-focus-genestealer-cults/

Brood Brothers don't have to be in separate detachment and don't break Cult rules even though they still do not benefit from Cult traits. So, you could throw in an Astra Militarum Primaris Psyker right next to your Broodlord in the same detachment to meet your two HQ.


They also specified that Cult Ambush will not cost CP.

That's not what it says though. It is identical to the existing rule for Brood Brothers, but isn't showing later paragraphs of that rule (because the full rule takes up nearly a full page of the GSC book). Like the other Faction Focuses, this is just showcasing rules that GSC have access to.

grouchoben wrote:
What's the hive's opinion on vehicle heavy lists? Lots of ridgerunners and goliaths filled with lasers and webbers?

I did my first game of "9th" with my old pre-codex mechanized build and it did well enough. The removal of the heavy penalty makes it much more nimble than it used to be and more dangerous on the move. The new terrain rules are also rather helpful for most of our vehicles, in that I was able to hide most of my vehicles behind a pair of ruins that would not have offered any protection in 8th. I'd suggest a 2x Neophyte 1x Acolyte/Metamorph approach rather than just Neophytes. In my test game my melee assets still did fine work and I was able to keep them relatively safe by blocking sight with my trucks and Lurk in The Shadows.

Also Jackals are a major asset for screening vehicles. If you are bringing Ridgerunners anyway they also get some benefit from Flare Launchers as well.

KurtAngle2 wrote:
The only viable Creed is gonna 100% be Bladed Cog, Hive Cult lost its niche with a maximum of +1 to hit modifers and Twisted Helix is even worse now with new strength modifier rule.

Citation for the strength modifier being capped? I know to-wound and to-hit modifiers are capped, but there are a lot of weapons that add more than +1 strength so I can't see that being limited. Still, +1 strength is still good for most of the melee units in the book (wound T4 on a 3+) and +2'' to advance rolls is also a good benefit to have on smaller boards.

I think Hivecult should be fine. Being able to fall out of combat and shoot is still strong, especially for Jackals that no longer require Rusted Claw for wolfquads to fire at full effect. Chilling Efficiency will still have its uses. In particular, it is still really good to have for taking down a lord of war sort of target. Ridgerunners with buffs can cripple most big things, but they will probably need a bit of help to finish the target off and the Alphus can't cover all of the shooting assets (especially with the likelihood we will only be able to run 1 given how much we want to have command points). Also provides an alternative in the event that the Alphus gets sniped out early on.

Also in regards to the Sanctus, at least in my local meta we have a plethora of snipers running about (Vindicare, Rangers and Eldar character snipers, Rattings, my own Sanctus, Eliminators and Scouts) so I've already been playing mine with a small escort of troops for unquestioning loyalty.

 Strat_N8 wrote:

KurtAngle2 wrote:
The only viable Creed is gonna 100% be Bladed Cog, Hive Cult lost its niche with a maximum of +1 to hit modifers and Twisted Helix is even worse now with new strength modifier rule.

Citation for the strength modifier being capped? I know to-wound and to-hit modifiers are capped, but there are a lot of weapons that add more than +1 strength so I can't see that being limited. Still, +1 strength is still good for most of the melee units in the book (wound T4 on a 3+) and +2'' to advance rolls is also a good benefit to have on smaller boards.

They clarified the calculation - multiplication first, then addition. This is a big deal for the S3 Sisters of Battle with our x2 weapons ((3x2)+1=7 versus (3+1)x2=8 means a 16% drop in efficiency against T4, T7, and T8), but your Abominants, Hybrids, and Aberrants are all S4 or above, so you're still at a minimum of S9 for the x2 melee weapons.

I'm just a bystander wandering through, not sure if I'm reading the situation right, but it doesn't seem like a huge nerf for Twisted Helix.

Off the top of my head I would wager the best list I can make now will be Goliath spam.

I have 3 rock grinders and 6 trucks so probably fill the trucks with bladed cog neophyes and the rock grinders with MSU abberants and characters. Of course ridge runner to taste as well.

Basically just run and gun (er driveby?) and charge in with the grinders. Now that they can burn in combat they are much scarier, not only that but you outflank them with the generic strat, allowing them deep into enemy lines where they can burn from reserve, might also be able to perfect ambush them now using that

When they die auto detonate them to ensure room for the 5 abbs to drop into.

Of course this list lives and dies by the new points costs because currently everything I mentioned is way over priced. But it is a funny and fun style. Sucks that big acolyte units got nerfed so bad this edition, but oh well. I think you can also use trucks for them, but honestly I have no idea why you would bother when you can have cheaper neos shooting 2 ML and 2 GL every turn. Heck the neo GL got even better in the mirror VS acolyte blobs since you will max shots every turn. Meanwhile hand flamers are 5ppm for some reason, ugh, RIP hand flamer bomb.

I think for me the go to character will obviosuly be the alphus. Now she makes all the trucks nearby shoot like marines, very big. I think the HQ slot will be much more competitive, but easier to filter through do to uselessness which is good in a bad way lol. RIP primus, abomanant and magus. There is no point in expensive characters you will get very limited use from. The patriarch is still not easy to use, but he is at least as good a psycher as the magus and better in melee then the abomanant, so he's like a twofer that can actually keep up with the vehicle pool and keep guys honest about wrapping the trucks up early. Not sold on the nexos, I feel like your going to blow points and CP on a detachment to take this guy now just so you MIGHT get those CP invested back. His best use is raising flags but I'd honestly take a locus for 10 ppm less and the ability to protect himself and others.

Cowboy and assassin are okish, it's really the points that will decide these guys because the new LOS rules will mean they either require even more points on body guards or they are one and done. Maybe the combat sanctus with bio knife will be the way to go, he was good before but harder to use, hilariously that may have flipped.

Brood brothers are another wrinkle. Not sure I like them beyond sentinels and mortars, although I will say both are way better. Mortars get even more shots against things they targeted already and sentinels with las can move and fire as if they had the bladed cog trait (I'll pretend like our PDF and vehicles have a trait even though they technically don't) and flamer sentinels are actually hilarious combat threats beyond tar-pitting. Just hanging out burning the enemy is pretty funny and very cool imagery.

Pure strains might be good in trucks if they actually cost equivalent to the hive fleet version finally. Could see one parked mid table just to create an "Oh sh!tz" zone, if they are too much maybe metamorphs.

All and all kind of a mixed bag really. We seem to have come out ahead if you were like me and preferred not to play with heaping, steaming, frothing piles of jank. Combining every cult creed imaginable with 3 types of specialist detachment and WLT/relics/strats. But not really because they got better but because the core rules helped out the formerly useless items. But a rising tide raises all ships, so I doubt how competitive we are since everyone in the game got these benefits too, but I'll state it again because it can't be understated enough:

Everything is reliant on the POINTS update. 6ppm cultists scare the crap out of my confidence though. That would put a neo at 7 and an acolyte at what 10? Yikes. Hopefully just chaos chaf got nuked (sorry dirty mike and the boyz).

So lets hope for the POINTS we both need and deserve fellas!

All in all, pretty bleak for those who (like me) didn't invest in cult vehicles. I have one rockgrinder, and three armoured sentinels (converted from space crusade dreadnoughts). The rest is cultists.

I do hope there is still some way of running ambush-heavy melee lists. I didn't pick up GSC in 7th to play guard, but throughout 8th and looks like going into 9th I'm feeling less and less hopeful for the cult.

What makes it or breaks it is all of ouer models really increase in price or not. We do not know.

But the flamer bomb is stil solid as long as people have infantery. Getting big tools into a big unit can be good.

 Niiai wrote:
What makes it or breaks it is all of ouer models really increase in price or not. We do not know.

But the flamer bomb is stil solid as long as people have infantery. Getting big tools into a big unit can be good.

Flamer Bomb is bad against any MEQ like statline, which means it's even worse in the next playfield full of MSU armies

KurtAngle2 wrote:
TYR have it worse since GSC units can be effectively played as 10 at most (a kind of GSC MSU), also Ridgerunners seem even better (unless they increase their points by a lot) and Aberrants could make a comeback if their points do not get adjusted (since they were overpriced from the the very beginning).
The only viable Creed is gonna 100% be Bladed Cog, Hive Cult lost its niche with a maximum of +1 to hit modifers and Twisted Helix is even worse now with new strength modifier rule.

I'm gonna try and nostradamus here: if the minimum board sizes are tournament enforced and become common practice in casual play - Twisted Helix will be a popular choice not for the +1S, but the +2" advance. We'll be working with way tighter opportunities for underground cult ambushes, so a lot of units that would previously have been almost exclusively deployed that way will likely be hoofing it. Added to the new terrain rules, a CC unit moving 9"-15" inches while staying hidden or protected by cover bonuses and then having Psychic Stimulus cast on it will have a respectable threat range.

KurtAngle2 wrote:

 Niiai wrote:
What makes it or breaks it is all of ouer models really increase in price or not. We do not know.

But the flamer bomb is stil solid as long as people have infantery. Getting big tools into a big unit can be good.

Flamer Bomb is bad against any MEQ like statline, which means it's even worse in the next playfield full of MSU armies

It is? I have not run the numbers. Bike grenade bomb then?

Madjob wrote:

KurtAngle2 wrote:
TYR have it worse since GSC units can be effectively played as 10 at most (a kind of GSC MSU), also Ridgerunners seem even better (unless they increase their points by a lot) and Aberrants could make a comeback if their points do not get adjusted (since they were overpriced from the the very beginning).
The only viable Creed is gonna 100% be Bladed Cog, Hive Cult lost its niche with a maximum of +1 to hit modifers and Twisted Helix is even worse now with new strength modifier rule.

I'm gonna try and nostradamus here: if the minimum board sizes are tournament enforced and become common practice in casual play - Twisted Helix will be a popular choice not for the +1S, but the +2" advance. We'll be working with way tighter opportunities for underground cult ambushes, so a lot of units that would previously have been almost exclusively deployed that way will likely be hoofing it. Added to the new terrain rules, a CC unit moving 9"-15" inches while staying hidden or protected by cover bonuses and then having Psychic Stimulus cast on it will have a respectable threat range.

Definitely not gonna happen since the terrain system is worse than previous ITC with enforced True LoS when you dare enter any terrain

 Red Corsair wrote:
Off the top of my head I would wager the best list I can make now will be Goliath spam.

I have 3 rock grinders and 6 trucks so probably fill the trucks with bladed cog neophyes and the rock grinders with MSU abberants and characters. Of course ridge runner to taste as well.

Basically just run and gun (er driveby?) and charge in with the grinders. Now that they can burn in combat they are much scarier, not only that but you outflank them with the generic strat, allowing them deep into enemy lines where they can burn from reserve, might also be able to perfect ambush them now using that

When they die auto detonate them to ensure room for the 5 abbs to drop into.

Of course this list lives and dies by the new points costs because currently everything I mentioned is way over priced. But it is a funny and fun style. Sucks that big acolyte units got nerfed so bad this edition, but oh well. I think you can also use trucks for them, but honestly I have no idea why you would bother when you can have cheaper neos shooting 2 ML and 2 GL every turn. Heck the neo GL got even better in the mirror VS acolyte blobs since you will max shots every turn. Meanwhile hand flamers are 5ppm for some reason, ugh, RIP hand flamer bomb.

I think for me the go to character will obviosuly be the alphus. Now she makes all the trucks nearby shoot like marines, very big. I think the HQ slot will be much more competitive, but easier to filter through do to uselessness which is good in a bad way lol. RIP primus, abomanant and magus. There is no point in expensive characters you will get very limited use from. The patriarch is still not easy to use, but he is at least as good a psycher as the magus and better in melee then the abomanant, so he's like a twofer that can actually keep up with the vehicle pool and keep guys honest about wrapping the trucks up early. Not sold on the nexos, I feel like your going to blow points and CP on a detachment to take this guy now just so you MIGHT get those CP invested back. His best use is raising flags but I'd honestly take a locus for 10 ppm less and the ability to protect himself and others.

Cowboy and assassin are okish, it's really the points that will decide these guys because the new LOS rules will mean they either require even more points on body guards or they are one and done. Maybe the combat sanctus with bio knife will be the way to go, he was good before but harder to use, hilariously that may have flipped.

Brood brothers are another wrinkle. Not sure I like them beyond sentinels and mortars, although I will say both are way better. Mortars get even more shots against things they targeted already and sentinels with las can move and fire as if they had the bladed cog trait (I'll pretend like our PDF and vehicles have a trait even though they technically don't) and flamer sentinels are actually hilarious combat threats beyond tar-pitting. Just hanging out burning the enemy is pretty funny and very cool imagery.

Pure strains might be good in trucks if they actually cost equivalent to the hive fleet version finally. Could see one parked mid table just to create an "Oh sh!tz" zone, if they are too much maybe metamorphs.

All and all kind of a mixed bag really. We seem to have come out ahead if you were like me and preferred not to play with heaping, steaming, frothing piles of jank. Combining every cult creed imaginable with 3 types of specialist detachment and WLT/relics/strats. But not really because they got better but because the core rules helped out the formerly useless items. But a rising tide raises all ships, so I doubt how competitive we are since everyone in the game got these benefits too, but I'll state it again because it can't be understated enough:

Everything is reliant on the POINTS update. 6ppm cultists scare the crap out of my confidence though. That would put a neo at 7 and an acolyte at what 10? Yikes. Hopefully just chaos chaf got nuked (sorry dirty mike and the boyz).

So lets hope for the POINTS we both need and deserve fellas!

thanks for the run down Corsair.

One thing I will say, is that I disagree about Magus being dead - honestly even at 90 pts just for just a single turn of Mind Control he's still attractive, never mind the other spell, although obviously Hypnosis has much less application now unfortunately.

Cowboy seems much the same, if not better since people will have less screens and his gunslinging will go further. Agreed on the Assassin flipping, which really disappoints me because I love my custom Sanctus (https://www.instagram.com/p/B1XcBjcne4F/) but he wasn't exactly mandatory before and he's only going to get worse now. He was great support for a line of psykers and helped them hold dominance in the psychic phase, but that's nerfed too by way of detachment changes, so it seems like his time may be up.

Will all depend on points, but I'm fairly confident GW hasn't considered any of that.

Your welcome, I was kind of just opening my brain up and free writing my initial takes so I am by no means married to any positions. I do love me all the GSC characters especially my magus, but as a chaos player it is tough to look at this guy when you take off your love goggles when you compare him to a sorcerer who is roughly the same cost. I think they simply over valued his aura ability a tad. I like it when it works but I can go long lengths without ever using it at all.

BTW as a Catachan and GSC player that conversion really has me with mixed feelings It's just so cool, but you did Marbo dirty

It's an awesome model mate, best part is he could be played as either version honestly.

I think the sniper assassin is going to by trickier to play with now, but sometimes that's fun (just not when it's the entire army GW lol). The knife fighter is going to make a great bully near objectives backed by your infantry, same with the locus. I like them currently because they are cheap, but who knows maybe all the characters drop significantly.

GSC

UNITS

Abominant 110

Acolyte Iconward 60

Jackal Alphus 75

Magus 85

Familiars 15

Patriarch 135

Primus 80

Acolyte Hybrids 8

Brood Brothers Infantry Squad 5

Neophyte Hybrids 6

Aberrants 22

Biophagus 40

Clavamus 60

Hybrid Metamorphs 11

Kelermorph 80

Locus 45

Nexos 55

Purestrain Genestealers 17

Sancus 60

Achilles Ridgerunners 40

Atalan Jackals 14 (Quad 20)

Armoured Sentinels 40

Scout Sentinels 40

Heavy Weapon Squad 6

Leman Russ 140

Goliath Rockgrinder 90

Chimera 65

Goliath Truck 50

Tectonic Fragdrill 80

​

RANGED WEAPONS

Atalan Incinerator 15

Autocannon 10/15

Battle Cannon 20

Bolt Pistol 2

Demolition Charges 10

Clearance Incinerator 30

Eradicator Nova Cannon 15

Exterminator Autocannon 30

Flamer 5

Grenade Launcher 5

Hand Flamer 2

Heavy Bolter 10/15

Heavy Flamer 15

Heavy Mining Laser 15

Heavy Seismic Cannon 15

Heavy Stubber 5

Hunter Killer MIssile 5

Lascannons 15/20

Mining Laser 10

Missiler Launcher 15/20

Mortar 10

Multi-Laser 5

Multi-Melta 25

Plasma Cannon 20

Seismic Cannon 10

Storm Bolter 3

Silencer Sniper Rifle 5

Twin Autocannon 30

Vanquisher Battle Cannon 15

Web Pistol 2

Webber 5

​

MELEE WEAPONS

Bonesword 5

Heavy Improvised Weapon 30

Heavy Power Hammer 15

Heavy Rock Cutter 10

Heavy Rock Drill 15

Heavy Rock Saw 10

Lash whip and bonesword 5

Metamorph Claw 3

Metamorph Talon 2

Power Axe 5

Power Hammer 5

Power Maul 5

Power Pick 10

Sentinel Chainsaw 2

​

WARGEAR

Augur Array 5

Cult Icon 10

Cult Vox Caster 5

Dozer Blade 5

Flare Launcher 5

Spotter Survey Augur 5

Track Guards 5

Shoutout to Kitane over at thetyranidhive for this compilation of points.

Genestealer cults
Abominant 110 | +5
Acolyte Iconward 60 |+7
Jackal Alphus 75 | +5
Magus 85 (Familiars 15) |+5/+3
Patriarch 135 (Familiars 15) |+10/+3
Primus 80 |+8
Acolyte Hybrids 8 |+1
Brood Brothers Infantry Squad 5 |+1
Neophyte Hybrids 6 |+1

Aberrants 22 |+3
Biophagus 40 - familiar 15 |+5/+3
Clamavus 60 |+5
Hybrid Metamorphs 11 |+4
Kellermorph 80 |+5
Locus 45 |+5
Nexus 55 |+5
Purestrain genestealers 17 |+2
Sanctus 60 |+5

Achilles Ridgerunner 40 |+5
Atalan Jackals 14 |+4
- Atalan Wolfquad 20 |+5
Cult Armored Sentinels 30
Cult Scout Sentinels 30

Brood Brothers HWT 6
Cult Leman Russ 130 |+23
Goliath Rockgrinder 90 |+12

Cult Chimera 65 |+5
Goliath Truck 50 |+0

Tectonic Fragdrill 80 |+5

Ranged Weapons
Atalan incinerator 15 |+1
Autocannon (infantry) 10
Autocannon (other models) 15 |+5
Battle cannon 20 |-2
Bolt pistol 2 |+1
Cache of demolition charges 10
Clearance Incinerator 30 |+10
Demolition Charge 10
Eradicator Nova Cannon 15
Exterminator autocannon 30 |+13
Flamer 5 |+1
Grenade launcher 5 |+2
Hand flamer 2 |+1
Heavy bolter (infantry) 10 |+2
Heavy bolter (other models) 15 |+7
Heavy flamer 15 |+1
Heavy mining laser 15
Heavy mortar 15 |+7
Heavy seismic cannon 15
Heavy stubber 5 |+3
Hunter-killer missile 5 |-1
Lascannon (infantry) 15 |-5
Lascannon (other models) 20
Mining laser 10 |-2
Missile launcher (infantry) 15 |+5
Missile launcher (other models) 20 |+10
Mortar 10 |+1
Multi laser 5
Multi melta 25 |+10
Plasma cannon 20 |-10
Seismic cannon 10 |+2
Silenced sniper rifle 5
Stormbolter 3 |+1
Twin autocannon 30 |+10
Vanquisher cannon 15
Web pistol 2 |+1
Webber 5 |+4

Melee weapons
Bonesword 5 |+2
Heavy improvised weapon 30 |+5
Heavy power hammer 15 |-1
Heavy rock cutter 10 |-2
Heavy rock drill 15
Heavy rock saw 10
Lashwhip and bonesword 5
Metamorph claw 3 |+1
Metamorph talon 2 |+1
Power axe 5
Power hammer 5 |+1
Power maul 5 |+1
Power pick 10 |+1
Sentinel chainsword 2

Augur array 5
Cult icon 10
Cult voxcaster 5
Dozer blade 5
Flare launcher 5
Spotter 5
Survey augur 5 |-5
Track guard 5 |-5

Abberants getting even more expensive is a kick in the dick.
Bikes went up a lot aswell. But overall I don't think its that bad?

Look have rending claws become free? If so Metamorphs can be quite good. (I currently runn my group with 2 metamorphs that where very cheap during 8th edition. Hitting on 2's, re-rolling 1's. Good for murdering infantery.)

 Niiai wrote:
Look have rending claws become free? If so Metamorphs can be quite good. (I currently runn my group with 2 metamorphs that where very cheap during 8th edition. Hitting on 2's, re-rolling 1's. Good for murdering infantery.)

rending claws have always been free?
Metamorph talons are on the list. they went up 1 point. but the metamorphs themselves also went up in points.

Maiby I am mixing up GSC and Nid rending claws.

It's really awesome that they felt the improvised weapon and abberants were still too cheap LMAO.

This is looking pretty bad if I am honest. Everything that was already too expensive actually went up again.

Whats worse, the cost effective units did as well.

Edit

lol at the drill still being 15 and the saw is only 10.

So basically that theoretical armored list I mentioned in an earlier post is probably still the better option, but total crap.

What kills me is how lazy these points adjustments are. I own 10 armies so it really stands out when only astartes got thoughtful granular increases. Several of their units went up by odd points like 2 or 3 points while all my other factions basically rounded to the nearest 5 point interval. But we already new there was bias, just hilarious how blatant it is. magus 85, primaris librarian 90.... Get wrecked GW!

Yea glancing through my 3 xenos armies, the only units that went down did so incidentally through wargear discounts. Otherwise the best we got was an even break. Obviously the trend was towards point increases or that's what I expected until I saw the SM point leaks, which gave the impression they might be keeping unit balance in mind as well with several actually going down from 8th > 9th but yea just looks like another case of GW only giving poster boys the time of day while everyone else gets lip service.

The FAQ to Rusted Claw is a interesting boon to jackals.

Changing pistols to assault when advancing doubles their shooting output. 1cp to reroll wounds makes them a little more damaging, at a 30 inch threat range.

But we don't really need more str3 shooting.

However, cult ambush still prevents us arriving post turn 3 which was something I was hoping would go away. so a first turn screen clearing unit has value, and with their threat range they can provide it.