Switch Theme:

Some rules sneak peaks from the Iron Hands supplament.  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in gb
Perfect Shot Ultramarine Predator Pilot





Holy Terra

 Xenomancers wrote:
Power discrepancies of this level between factions in the same codex are UNACCEPTABLE.


We haven't seen the full supplements yet so we can't make any such statements.

At a glance people thought Ultras were better than White Scars but this is not the case once you build a list playing to the strengths of WS.

-~Ishagu~- 
   
Made in us
Lord Commander in a Plush Chair






 Ishagu wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
Power discrepancies of this level between factions in the same codex are UNACCEPTABLE.


We haven't seen the full supplements yet so we can't make any such statements.

At a glance people thought Ultras were better than White Scars but this is not the case once you build a list playing to the strengths of WS.


QFT.

Main Codex just had units and some playability.

Supplements add a dimension of Narrative effectiveness to what we know of chapters.

UM: Jack-of-all trades, decent at everything and experts at nothing.

WS: Fast attack specialists. Their guys need/want to get in close as fast as possible.

IH: Heavy support specialists. Heavy weapons and lots of armor that is tough as adamantium. Yes, this means they are in their element from turn 1; but they also want to stay in devastator doctrine making most of the army a little less effective vs other marines in subsequent turns.

RG: stealth assassins. Snipers extraordinaire, scouts and phobos primaris are what this army is built around; add in some anti-armor for mop-up after you have deleted all the force multipliers. They are a little more of a long-game playing army.

So far, the supplements have oscillated between more and less primaris vs oldmarines. With both still being viable choices in army composition. The next 2 will be more of the same.

IF: Bolter Bunnies/siege specialists. I expect/suspect that thier super-doctrine will be Tactical-based and either super-power Bolter discipline, or grant Bolters/antitank weapons better AP and damage vs buildings/cover.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





 Insectum7 wrote:


S8? Not many. Lower Strength? Possibly tons upon tons. The Knights could still walk away from CC and shoot. The Dreds can't unless UM. I just feel like I see easy ways around this one.


I think dreads confound it a little. They overwatch well (as IH) and punch well. People claiming all vehicle armies are going to smash it up will get caught up by melee units for sure.

Honestly I'd probably treat the dreadnought ball like a Castellan - kill the rest of the army and focus on objectives.

[im]https://imgur.com/kEUzFF0.png[im]

http://insighthammer.com/ 
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Kommissar Kel wrote:
.

WS: Fast attack specialists. Their guys need/want to get in close as fast as possible.

.

And their doctrin activates on turn 3
   
Made in bg
Regular Dakkanaut




Ice_can wrote:
Marin wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
Power discrepancies of this level between factions in the same codex are UNACCEPTABLE.


I disagree, its logical some units to perform better in some factions. What will be bad if one faction is clearly superior to the rest.
For now every SM chapter look really good and better than all other factions and that will be real problem.
I think GW really put them self in the corner with this books and if the pshychic awakening and CA don`t fix things this will kill the edition.

I think you've rather missed the point, if the whole codex is over or under performing then points changes can be used to balance them out.
If 1 subfaction traits make a unit worth 200 points while all the others only make the unit worth 150 points, that is a problem as all those subfactions pay the same points.

Also marine's had a long way to climb before the were on the same level of broken a alitoc flyer spam, GSC and choas soup, GW may have managed to get them past that point for 1 or 2 combinations


There is nothing to climb because this is totally new codex with very little in common with the old one.
First GW did things they tried not to do all editions, give extra easy to get bonuses to hit, give full rerolls and give extra rerolls on wound !!! Now even Tao or Guard cant outshoot marines, the paper planes will be countered and you have snippets that can kill reliable characters. Forget Allaitoc flyers, IH flyers will probably be better.
GSC have little chances vs SM, Infiltrators, lots of tough bodies that are hard to remove even in close combat, serious firepower that destroy everything in range, strat that intercept units coming from reserve.,
SM are busted the only problem is they cant spam everything in their list because of the points.
If CA ignore them, Ynnari will look like paper tiger in comparison.

NErrrrrrrrrrf NERFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF NEEEEEEEEEEEEEERFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Marin wrote:
First GW did things they tried not to do all editions, give extra easy to get bonuses to hit, give full rerolls and give extra rerolls on wound !!!


Well that just isn't true. Bobby was giving full rerolls to hits and wounds in the index.


Now even Tao or Guard cant outshoot marines


Uuhhhh....no. Tau just won NOVA. IH doesn't dramatically increase the shooting of the army. The buffs that got handed out were to the middling Primaris Infantry.

Forget Allaitoc flyers, IH flyers will probably be better.


K, well, let's find out.

Lascannon:

1 * .333 * .666 * .833 * 3.5 = 0.65 // Alaitoc Hemlock
1 * .5 * .666 * .833 * 3.5 * .833 = 0.81 // IH Stormraven

Asscan

6 * .333 * .5 * .5 = 0.50 // Alaitoc Hemlock
6 * .5 * .333 * .5 * .833 = 0.42 // IH Stormraven

Disintegrator

3 * .333 * .333 * .833 * 2 = 0.55 // Alaitoc Hemlock
3 * .5 * .333 * .833 * 2 * .833 = 0.69 // IH Stormraven

Looks like that isn't true unless the gun is S6.

GSC have little chances vs SM, Infiltrators, lots of tough bodies that are hard to remove even in close combat, serious firepower that destroy everything in range, strat that intercept units coming from reserve.


You mean the exact same ability that GSC got before marines? Which means marines are forcibly spending 220 to 330 points on infiltrators. They're still Primaris, so, do what the other GSC guy did and take some dirt cheap mining lasers with no money penalty and work them off the board before deepstrikes need to pop up.

I'm genuinely unsure on how Lying in Wait interacts with scramblers though.

And the marine intercept is far more limiting than the Eldar one.

SM are busted the only problem is they cant spam everything in their list because of the points.


Sure...

[im]https://imgur.com/kEUzFF0.png[im]

http://insighthammer.com/ 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




Illinois

The preview for the new IH special character is up.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/09/12/preview-iron-father-feirrosgw-homepage-post-2/
   
Made in us
Perfect Shot Ultramarine Predator Pilot





Holy Terra

More useful than Guilliman. Wow, amazing stuff.

This guy's rules and auras are incredible.

-~Ishagu~- 
   
Made in gb
Norn Queen






5++ bubble and gives BS2+ to a unit within 3" for the shooting phase, Flat 3 repair
Once again:
Spoiler:

Add me on Discord: BaconCatBug#0294
+++++There are currently ONE HUNDRED AND FIFTEEN (115) documents required to play Warhammer 40,000 8th edition+++++
+++++List of "broken" RaW in Warhammer 40,000 8th edition+++++
Disclaimer: My YMDC answers are from a "What the rules, as written (or modified by Special Snowflake FAQ) in the rulebooks, actually say" perspective, not a "What I wish the rules said" perspective. Even GW agrees with me, send an email to 40kfaq@gwplc.com for a confirmation reply "4. Apply The Rules As Written. If you still don’t have a satisfactory answer, use the rule just as it is written if you possibly can, even if you are not completely happy with the effect the rule has."
Mathhammer tables for 2D6 and 3D6 Charging with various re-roll abilities
Stylus CSS theme for DakkaDakka forums to hide black avatar background and fully hide ignored users.
Userscript to add a button to open all "[First Unread]" links on the page, hides the "[Blog View]" links, and adds a "Subscribed Threads" link to forum pages.  
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Well, he better be 200+ points.

But now you guys are at a crossroads - a 5++ or -1 damage? You can't have both unless you're spending hard. I can't recall the last time someone claimed a 5++ was great - look at how people view daemon engines.

(Deathwatch get 2 point SS?! OVERPOWERED!)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/12 17:29:16


[im]https://imgur.com/kEUzFF0.png[im]

http://insighthammer.com/ 
   
Made in be
Aspirant Tech-Adept





Belgium

40k is just getting ridiculous, I have no more will to play until this new wave of codices is done, if non-SM codices are even remade. Getting tired of Bubblehammer and the exaggerated lethality new releases are getting lately. I'll continue watching the news with interest and play with a few people but it's too much for now. That's the final drop for me after my 60€/72 pts AdMech transports getting outclassed by the new Impulsor transport a few months later.

40K: Mechanicus and Drukhari.
AoS: Nighthaunts

My Stygies VIII army in pictures !
My Eversor and Culexus assassins !

 Rolsheen wrote:
Ah yes the mythical world of Cyraxus
Where GW hold an annual bonfire festival to burn the hopes and dreams of all Ad Mech players
 
   
Made in us
Perfect Shot Ultramarine Predator Pilot





Holy Terra

 Daedalus81 wrote:
Well, he better be 200+ points.

But now you guys are at a crossroads - a 5++ or -1 damage? You can't have both unless you're spending hard. I can't recall the last time someone claimed a 5++ was great - look at how people view daemon engines.

(Deathwatch get 2 point SS?! OVERPOWERED!)


You will ALWAYS have both. You need two characters for a Battalion.

-~Ishagu~- 
   
Made in ch
Anointed Dark Priest of Chaos





 Daedalus81 wrote:
Well, he better be 200+ points.

But now you guys are at a crossroads - a 5++ or -1 damage? You can't have both unless you're spending hard. I can't recall the last time someone claimed a 5++ was great - look at how people view daemon engines.

(Deathwatch get 2 point SS?! OVERPOWERED!)



yeah, because the 5++ is stuck on a profile that pays too much for it.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page

A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
_______________________________

Who would win:
10'000 + years of veterancy, or some raidy Boys?
(Not Online in regards to the new Red Corsair battalion CP boost.) 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





 Ishagu wrote:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
Well, he better be 200+ points.

But now you guys are at a crossroads - a 5++ or -1 damage? You can't have both unless you're spending hard. I can't recall the last time someone claimed a 5++ was great - look at how people view daemon engines.

(Deathwatch get 2 point SS?! OVERPOWERED!)


You will ALWAYS have both. You need two characters for a Battalion.


Right, so ~300 points of character spend to support a bubble that isn't going to be a single dreadnought, so, 700 to 800 points.

[im]https://imgur.com/kEUzFF0.png[im]

http://insighthammer.com/ 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut







 BaconCatBug wrote:
5++ bubble and gives BS2+ to a unit within 3" for the shooting phase, Flat 3 repair

The wording on the repair ability felt a bit wonky - is it worded as "up to 3, rather than up to D3" just to stop you repairing past maximum W on a vehicle?

2019 Plog - Dysartes Twitches - 2019 Output

My Twitch stream - going live at 7pm GMT Tuesday & Thursday, 12pm Sunday (work permitting).

Gamgee on Tau Players wrote:we all kill cats and sell our own families to the devil and eat live puppies.
 
   
Made in us
Perfect Shot Ultramarine Predator Pilot





Holy Terra

Two Repulsors, now with a good Invul, reducing damage, not dropping a profile and being repaired for 9 wounds a turn potentially.

You don't think that's worth it? Just a basic example.

The rest of the infantry is no slouch either.

-~Ishagu~- 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Not Online!!! wrote:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
Well, he better be 200+ points.

But now you guys are at a crossroads - a 5++ or -1 damage? You can't have both unless you're spending hard. I can't recall the last time someone claimed a 5++ was great - look at how people view daemon engines.

(Deathwatch get 2 point SS?! OVERPOWERED!)



yeah, because the 5++ is stuck on a profile that pays too much for it.


Redemptor is T7 W13 - 105 points
Forgefiend is T7 W12, 5++, heal 1 - 100 points

Redepmtor spends likely 200 for a 5++. FF spends 160 for BS3. Pretty even-stevens I'd say.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Ishagu wrote:
Two Repulsors, now with a good Invul, reducing damage, not dropping a profile and being repaired for 9 wounds a turn potentially.

You don't think that's worth it? Just a basic example.

The rest of the infantry is no slouch either.


Totally worth it. It just isn't the game breaker people are making it out to be. (wonders why the cost of repulsors and executioners went up)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/12 17:51:52


[im]https://imgur.com/kEUzFF0.png[im]

http://insighthammer.com/ 
   
Made in gb
Norn Queen






 Dysartes wrote:
 BaconCatBug wrote:
5++ bubble and gives BS2+ to a unit within 3" for the shooting phase, Flat 3 repair

The wording on the repair ability felt a bit wonky - is it worded as "up to 3, rather than up to D3" just to stop you repairing past maximum W on a vehicle?
It says "up to 3" because if a model has only lost 2 wounds, you can't "regain 3" wounds. By saying "up to" it allows you to repair 1, 2 or 3 wounds as required. There might also be some niche reason why you only want to restore 1 wound to something.

Add me on Discord: BaconCatBug#0294
+++++There are currently ONE HUNDRED AND FIFTEEN (115) documents required to play Warhammer 40,000 8th edition+++++
+++++List of "broken" RaW in Warhammer 40,000 8th edition+++++
Disclaimer: My YMDC answers are from a "What the rules, as written (or modified by Special Snowflake FAQ) in the rulebooks, actually say" perspective, not a "What I wish the rules said" perspective. Even GW agrees with me, send an email to 40kfaq@gwplc.com for a confirmation reply "4. Apply The Rules As Written. If you still don’t have a satisfactory answer, use the rule just as it is written if you possibly can, even if you are not completely happy with the effect the rule has."
Mathhammer tables for 2D6 and 3D6 Charging with various re-roll abilities
Stylus CSS theme for DakkaDakka forums to hide black avatar background and fully hide ignored users.
Userscript to add a button to open all "[First Unread]" links on the page, hides the "[Blog View]" links, and adds a "Subscribed Threads" link to forum pages.  
   
Made in fr
Trazyn's Museum Curator





on the forum. Obviously

 Ishagu wrote:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
Well, he better be 200+ points.

But now you guys are at a crossroads - a 5++ or -1 damage? You can't have both unless you're spending hard. I can't recall the last time someone claimed a 5++ was great - look at how people view daemon engines.

(Deathwatch get 2 point SS?! OVERPOWERED!)


You will ALWAYS have both. You need two characters for a Battalion.


I don't think you can have 2 of the same named characters.
Those are the abilities Iron Father Feirros has. We don't know what the bog standard Iron Father gets.

What I have
~4100
~1660
: LM

Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!

A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble

 
   
Made in ch
Anointed Dark Priest of Chaos





Daedalus, how long do you think your discolord survive.

So no, not even, not even close.
Also the Discordant is a pure melee thingy, also dakka daemonengine build does not work.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page

A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
_______________________________

Who would win:
10'000 + years of veterancy, or some raidy Boys?
(Not Online in regards to the new Red Corsair battalion CP boost.) 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
 Ishagu wrote:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
Well, he better be 200+ points.

But now you guys are at a crossroads - a 5++ or -1 damage? You can't have both unless you're spending hard. I can't recall the last time someone claimed a 5++ was great - look at how people view daemon engines.

(Deathwatch get 2 point SS?! OVERPOWERED!)


You will ALWAYS have both. You need two characters for a Battalion.


I don't think you can have 2 of the same named characters.
Those are the abilities Iron Father Feirros has. We don't know what the bog standard Iron Father gets.


Unnamed Forgefather would get the relic.

[im]https://imgur.com/kEUzFF0.png[im]

http://insighthammer.com/ 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




Illinois

 Daedalus81 wrote:
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
 Ishagu wrote:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
Well, he better be 200+ points.

But now you guys are at a crossroads - a 5++ or -1 damage? You can't have both unless you're spending hard. I can't recall the last time someone claimed a 5++ was great - look at how people view daemon engines.

(Deathwatch get 2 point SS?! OVERPOWERED!)


You will ALWAYS have both. You need two characters for a Battalion.


I don't think you can have 2 of the same named characters.
Those are the abilities Iron Father Feirros has. We don't know what the bog standard Iron Father gets.


Unnamed Forgefather would get the relic.

Are IH getting unnamed Forgefathers? I haven't seen anything saying they are.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/12 17:59:53


 
   
Made in us
Perfect Shot Ultramarine Predator Pilot





Holy Terra

Just any techmarine or any generic character. Probably a Lieutenant is most useful.

-~Ishagu~- 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Not Online!!! wrote:
Daedalus, how long do you think your discolord survive.

So no, not even, not even close.
Also the Discordant is a pure melee thingy, also dakka daemonengine build does not work.


We're trading even costs for buffs - I don't need disco to be visible even if that's not his primary. I couldn't tell you if dakkadaemons are viable, because I don't have enough to run that, but the HAC sure seem handy is primaris start breeding.

MF has their fists built in and VS their guns so it gets tricky.

[im]https://imgur.com/kEUzFF0.png[im]

http://insighthammer.com/ 
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare






 Daedalus81 wrote:
Well, he better be 200+ points.

But now you guys are at a crossroads - a 5++ or -1 damage? You can't have both unless you're spending hard. I can't recall the last time someone claimed a 5++ was great - look at how people view daemon engines.

(Deathwatch get 2 point SS?! OVERPOWERED!)

-1 damage is free - as a relic for any of the other 3 HQ's youll be taking.

If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





 Blood Hawk wrote:

Are IH getting unnamed Forgefathers? I haven't seen anything saying they are.


Sorry - meant techmarine. Librarian could be a wiser choice.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Xenomancers wrote:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
Well, he better be 200+ points.

But now you guys are at a crossroads - a 5++ or -1 damage? You can't have both unless you're spending hard. I can't recall the last time someone claimed a 5++ was great - look at how people view daemon engines.

(Deathwatch get 2 point SS?! OVERPOWERED!)

-1 damage is free - as a relic for any of the other 3 HQ's youll be taking.


Note:

You can't have both unless you're spending hard.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/12 18:08:04


[im]https://imgur.com/kEUzFF0.png[im]

http://insighthammer.com/ 
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare






 Daedalus81 wrote:
Not Online!!! wrote:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
Well, he better be 200+ points.

But now you guys are at a crossroads - a 5++ or -1 damage? You can't have both unless you're spending hard. I can't recall the last time someone claimed a 5++ was great - look at how people view daemon engines.

(Deathwatch get 2 point SS?! OVERPOWERED!)



yeah, because the 5++ is stuck on a profile that pays too much for it.


Redemptor is T7 W13 - 105 points
Forgefiend is T7 W12, 5++, heal 1 - 100 points

Redepmtor spends likely 200 for a 5++. FF spends 160 for BS3. Pretty even-stevens I'd say.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Ishagu wrote:
Two Repulsors, now with a good Invul, reducing damage, not dropping a profile and being repaired for 9 wounds a turn potentially.

You don't think that's worth it? Just a basic example.

The rest of the infantry is no slouch either.


Totally worth it. It just isn't the game breaker people are making it out to be. (wonders why the cost of repulsors and executioners went up)

You are just wrong dude. If this isn't game breaking the non iron hands repulsor needs to drop 50 points.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
 Blood Hawk wrote:

Are IH getting unnamed Forgefathers? I haven't seen anything saying they are.


Sorry - meant techmarine. Librarian could be a wiser choice.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Xenomancers wrote:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
Well, he better be 200+ points.

But now you guys are at a crossroads - a 5++ or -1 damage? You can't have both unless you're spending hard. I can't recall the last time someone claimed a 5++ was great - look at how people view daemon engines.

(Deathwatch get 2 point SS?! OVERPOWERED!)

-1 damage is free - as a relic for any of the other 3 HQ's youll be taking.


Note:

You can't have both unless you're spending hard.
mandtory hq's aren't spending hard. It's unavoidable point expenature. It's not like another marine faction needing to spend 250 for a durado dread for a 5++ aura that can just be focused first and will die easily and you still had to buy 2 HQ's anyways and don't get a -1 damage aura ether. Just go ahead and give me my reroll wounds aura back please. It would still be inferior to this.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/09/12 18:14:04


If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in us
Ancient Space Wolves Venerable Dreadnought




The thing that baffles me is that Iron Hands are getting significant buffs to both damage *and* durability. A really tanky theme would be great, or a killy one, but both seems like it'll be way too potent.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





 Xenomancers wrote:
mandtory hq's aren't spending hard. It's unavoidable point expenature.


Spending hard on a death ball. Calgar is 200 so this guy will easily be that. Add a librarian, which will be about 100. Then add a minimum of 3 vehicles.

And throw caution to the wind for when this guy gets taken for a ride on his points if he ends up too strong.


This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/12 18:20:05


[im]https://imgur.com/kEUzFF0.png[im]

http://insighthammer.com/ 
   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut




Even if Iron Hands (floating) gun castle isn't gonna be the list that's gonna take home the biggest tournaments in the finals, everyone better be ready to play that list at least 2-3 games in a 5-round tournament, lol.
   
 
Forum Index » 40K General Discussion
Go to: