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tneva82 wrote:

 The Phazer wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Other than that, Space Wolves go back to the very tail end of Rogue Trader, in so far as they got Roger, Nigel and Eric as named characters. Ultramarines got the first Marine Codex in 2nd Ed, then Space Wolves (introducing Blood Claws, Grey Hunters etc. I think. Those may have been in Epic as well?), finally Angels of Death, a combo-codex for Blood and Dark Angels.

Space Wolves were first (IIRC SW were the first Codex for 2nd Ed) but yes.

Correct. Wolves were the first one to get codex.

I remember playing Space Wolves back in the Rogue Trader days - the rules were originally published in White Dwarf 157 in January 1993!

The marine faction as a single entity wouldn't be manageable commercially.

They are breaking it down into multiple sub factions so that they can better manage them.

Each subfaction of marines has probably as many players as other main factions.

 Lord Damocles wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
So books should be released on what makes most profits. More books for non selling factions isn't efficient.

And that's why Sisters of Battle got re-done.

Wait, wait?

Don't forget Genestealer Cults i'm sure they sold really well before they existed.

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:

 Lord Damocles wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
So books should be released on what makes most profits. More books for non selling factions isn't efficient.

And that's why Sisters of Battle got re-done.

Wait, wait?

Don't forget Genestealer Cults i'm sure they sold really well before they existed.

What is this supposed to even mean? Custodes, Deathwatch, GSC, new SOB, all didn't have ranges or models (except sisters, I suppose) until recently. I don't know what point you're trying to make, other than "these new models were popular AND didn't exist prior, so you're wrong." That doesn't seem to be a good argument. I mean, Primaris didn't exist until recently too.

What's stopping someone from saying "Remember that Blood of the Phoenix boxset? It had new Eldar and Dark Eldar models, and it never sold out. Guess Xenos players don't care about their models, since they didn't buy the boxset en mass, which showsGW they're not a big seller."

Umbros wrote:
How do you even know it is op??? The book hasn't even released. They were annihalated in the tabletop titans battle report.

There's definitely power in there but I wouldn't jump to conclusions.

Wouldn't use ttt reports as power measurements seeing they don't go full out nastyness and try to balance out forces to provide closer games. You don't use games where one side　handicaps itself as balance measurement.

They aren't aiming for balance checks but interesting games.

tneva82 wrote:

Umbros wrote:
How do you even know it is op??? The book hasn't even released. They were annihalated in the tabletop titans battle report.

There's definitely power in there but I wouldn't jump to conclusions.

Wouldn't use ttt reports as power measurements seeing they don't go full out nastyness and try to balance out forces to provide closer games. You don't use games where one side　handicaps itself as balance measurement.

They aren't aiming for balance checks but interesting games.

I agree. But better evidence than anyone else has, right now.

...i really don't think comparing Harlies with their astounding 6 kits or Knights with...4 or 5 iirc, or TS which are mostly the same units as CSM with 4 unique kits to 100+ marine boxes and blisters is quite the same effort?

 Lord Damocles wrote:

 Flipsiders wrote:
The only difference is that Space Marines and Chaos Space Marines are currently the two factions in the game which actually have room for a bunch of extra codices, since each legion has such a distinctive identity. As much as I love Evil Sunz, for instance, I know they really don't have enough room for an entire book of their own.

That's not true.

Blood Angels didn't get a bunch of variant units, expanded background, and a marginally different playstyle compared to Doom Eagles because those changes inherently existed - they were created in order to MAKE Blood Angels more different, thus justifying the different rules.

If the same process was applied to Evil Sunz, they could easily 'deserve' a separate Codex/Supplement to the same extent that Blood Angels do.

(Not that Blood Angels OR Evil Sunz should actually have separate books from their parent factions of course!)

I agree with what you're saying here in theory, but I think you're undervaluing the importance of prior changes. Blood Angels are popular enough that they have been given a metric truckload of fluff over the past 25 years or so, from successor chapters to super special units like the Sanguinary Guard to a major role in a 50-novel megaseries, and all of that can be turned into unique rules and models for the chapter. The BA codex doesn't exist to add more differentiating factors as much as it does to account for all the differentiating factors that already exist. Meanwhile, if we want to go back to Evil Sunz, what do they have that separates them from other clans? Well, they like going fast, have a lot of Speed Freeks, and one of their warlords is a cool guy who did a rad jump once. As you say, you could add more rules and lore to make them different from other clans, but the difference is that with Blood Angels, those rules and lore ALREADY EXISTED.

Now, I'm not very interested in arguing over whether supplements are a good idea, because that's an entirely different discussion, but the fact remains, if we go by the assumption that supplements are a good idea, then factions should receive supplements based on the amount of rules, models, and lore they already have, NOT their popularity. I hope we can both agree on that.

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:


Don't forget Genestealer Cults i'm sure they sold really well before they existed.

Well, GSC is basically squatted at this point. Last couple of point hikes seems almost purpose-made to get people off the army.

That's not what "squatted" means.

Well for me GSC started kinda dead. Thought it was a cool idea, liked the mesh with a pair of factions but the price to make them pushed me right out. Which is pretty much what GW prices do to me currently. Luckily I have nice forces and variety already but wouldn't it be nice to be tempted ?

Agreed, they are pricing me out of the hobby. If I had to start today, I would never be in the hobby

I hear that, I can't even really try and talk others into taking the plunge as the start up cost is just intense.

 AngryAngel80 wrote:
Well for me GSC started kinda dead. Thought it was a cool idea, liked the mesh with a pair of factions but the price to make them pushed me right out. Which is pretty much what GW prices do to me currently. Luckily I have nice forces and variety already but wouldn't it be nice to be tempted ?

The models are so nice though. You should just buy a couple of SC boxes and some jackals, and have a little army for combat patrols or 900pt games etc

Or Kill Team!
I have 10/20 cultists, then a box of 5 of those Acolyte/Metamorph ones.
Throw in all those special aberrant, character type models from that box set (what was that in? Had two tiny genestealer pets in it..? Either way I paid £1 for each model in that set ), and some random spare old genestealer and Guard models with GSC heads on.
Everything I could ever need for it.

Crusade is also a good way to get new players in, despite the bookkeeping. Start combat patrol sized, get attached to the units as they level up, supply increases allow for adding units over time to try new things or fill gaps in the list.

So what’s the situation at your local stores? My closest moderately sized independent game store basically carries a full line of GW and Star Wars, and little else. GW is the meat of their non comics business.

We were informed, though, that for the Dark Angels/Marines release, they would accept no preorders for anything other than the codex book. This is now the second recent 40K release, along with Death Guard, this has happened. Their product allocation is so much smaller than expected again, they’re just throwing it on the floor release Saturday and ‘good luck’.

This is a place that has easily in the past had dozens of preorders for major releases, and never had a problem filling them. I realize things are different in the COVID-19 era, but still, the amount of product reaching stores near me is miniscule. GW was having issues keeping stock available pre COVID; apparently, it’s far, far worse now. How’s your local holding up?

Not well for new releases at least. Last i heard dg is still stuck in customs. It's going to be slow getting new models from now on

 totalfailure wrote:

This is a place that has easily in the past had dozens of preorders for major releases, and never had a problem filling them. I realize things are different in the COVID-19 era, but still, the amount of product reaching stores near me is miniscule. GW was having issues keeping stock available pre COVID; apparently, it’s far, far worse now. How’s your local holding up?

Not exactly local, but the one that considers itself a game & comic shop rather than a comic shop that has a small games section? Overstocked.

They still have 10 Indomitus boxes (out of the 60 they got), 2 Lumenith boxes, a couple Christmas boxes and a couple other limited boxes (Aetherwar and Blood of the Phoenix, though still having the latter isn't a shock). I didn't see the new DG terrain piece, but I wasn't looking for it; they still had six of the new Codex on the shelf. Same for BA and DW. More necrons than I've ever seen on shelf in my life (which actually suggests that they aren't selling well).

They didn't have a full selection of everything (they were waiting on an order of orks from what they said, there were none on the shelves), but they had 5 big shelving units (6+ feet tall, 15' long) of nothing but GW products. I haven't seen that much stock in quite a while, the more local stores are very minimal and functionally random, though the one in town still had an Indomitus box or two a couple months back (November, iirc)

For the Covid era, it felt really weird. Like I'd wandered into a game store from the late 90s.

 totalfailure wrote:
So what’s the situation at your local stores? My closest moderately sized independent game store basically carries a full line of GW and Star Wars, and little else. GW is the meat of their non comics business.

We were informed, though, that for the Dark Angels/Marines release, they would accept no preorders for anything other than the codex book. This is now the second recent 40K release, along with Death Guard, this has happened. Their product allocation is so much smaller than expected again, they’re just throwing it on the floor release Saturday and ‘good luck’.

This is a place that has easily in the past had dozens of preorders for major releases, and never had a problem filling them. I realize things are different in the COVID-19 era, but still, the amount of product reaching stores near me is miniscule. GW was having issues keeping stock available pre COVID; apparently, it’s far, far worse now. How’s your local holding up?

The Primary store I play at (Not a GW) that does only miniature gaming has been having serious trouble keeping the stock they need. For a lot of stuff if you didn't have it preordered and pick it up on release day, you were SOL for weeks. It does look like they have started to get in more stock over the past couple of weeks though.

Within two hours of preorders going up on Saturday, Element Games pushed the shipping date for Bladeguard back by 2 weeks. However today it's been changed back to this weekend, so it sounds like GW have indicated they will get enough stock.

Any UK retailers here with insight?

The two German stores I usually order stuff from are still waiting for the DG models to arrive, they are expected to arrive on the fourth, codices arrived on Saturday.

In that context, telling people that the next wave of models will be available two weeks late makes perfect sense.

In similar circumstances, the whole UK seems to be out of the citadel main primers, black, grey seer, white etc etc.

I'm not sure that would be completely customs related but it could be, no idea where they are manufactured. Additionally, I think people need to consider certain items that are manufactured all over probably had a lengthy shutdown at some point last year like most, so what we've been getting our hands recently were probably the stockpiled and reserves. In addition, many manufacturing locations are still adhering to strict social distancing rules which will also limit production.

Then the new customs arrangement with the EU seems to be the cherry on the cake (however, whilst not a complete free trade, I thought this wasn't going to happen?!?! shouldn't under the trade agreement most items be fairly frictionless.. I thought the main issue were very niche like specific food items and such)

I don't think anyone is actually complaining, just sharing experiences.

As for the trade agreement, I'm no expert (at all) but it seems that the main holdup is that there now actually is paperwork to be done and checked, where there was none before.

 Jidmah wrote:
The two German stores I usually order stuff from are still waiting for the DG models to arrive, they are expected to arrive on the fourth, codices arrived on Saturday.

In that context, telling people that the next wave of models will be available two weeks late makes perfect sense.

Ha, I'm still waiting for the Blood Angels Death Company Intercessor box I ordered on 7. December!

endlesswaltz123 wrote:

Then the new customs arrangement with the EU seems to be the cherry on the cake (however, whilst not a complete free trade, I thought this wasn't going to happen?!?! shouldn't under the trade agreement most items be fairly frictionless.. I thought the main issue were very niche like specific food items and such)

The deal was super thin. Only barely better than no deal. It specifically only removed tariff's and quota's. That's all UK ever WANTED from the deal. All else was not something UK wanted from the get-go. This means VAT needs to be paid. This means checks for standards etc. Every single non-tariff barrier was left because UK didn't want to agree to follow regulations and rules needed for removal of those. They never even tried to negotiate for those.. And non-tariff barriers are the worst barriers to trade.

Also the "no tariff" is also inaccurate as it only applies when enough % of item is made in UK. If they import stuff(say raw material) and do something to it before exporting(and of course same applies reverse) and the amount done in UK isn't high enough tariff is applied. So let's say example(not neccessarily real. I don't know GW's production system) that say spray cans were made in country A, paint itself in country B and GW only combines them and sells and this would not be counted as sufficient then tariff would be paid for those spray cans.

Devil is in the details. The deal is only marginally above no deal. All it did was ensured no quotas and no tariff provided rules of origin is fulfilled.

At least GW's products are not ones that are flat out banned like shellfish whose export(major export source for UK fishermen) is now flat out banned to EU as those belong to class of food that cannot be exported to EU from 3rd countries which UK now falls under so they cannot trade at all. Good thing miniatures don't have such a ban

Well, we ordered a murderfang for a friend's birthday in August, and it's still a no-show.

Kill team, (so heavy intercessors, flayed ones and characters) next month

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/02/02/even-the-new-terrain-wants-you-dead-in-kill-team-pariah-nexus/

The new expansion will be landing next month

Its gonna be like a year until we can buy those Flayed Ones standalone, isn't it?

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Its gonna be like a year until we can buy those Flayed Ones standalone, isn't it?

LOL, no....because every Marine player that is salivating about Heavy Intercessors will be dumping Flayed Ones on every market known to man to try an offset some of the overcosted amount of the KT set.