Grotrebel wrote:

Because the double Deffkopta Evil Sunz list has been running out of CP in a lot of my test games and 1 Outrider with 6 FA slots were a bit too few for my taste i will go for the Blood Axes version.

 Grotrebel wrote:
In my math I was also counting the 3 CP I save for putting the 2 Wazboms in strategic reserve for free with "I've got a plan lads" as I will do that in 9 / 10 cases in a competitive setting.
Also ES cost me 1 more CP / turn for drive by dakka.

So ES start with 9 after reserves, while BA start with 8 (both lists run a Speed King Wartrike) because of the second detachment and the extra WL trait.
Thus BA end up with 8-13 CP averaging 10 which is 1 more plus the ones a safe for not using Drive by dakka on top of attack outta sun.

ES can do mono detachment Speed Mob a little better than BA, but if you really want 7+ FA slots ES will end up with 6. (Again, counting the 3 CP for reserve)
Mono detachment ES without reserves will still be my favourite speaking about whats more effective, but that's not a thing I see happening often. (For me at least.)

One could squeeze all BA stuff in one detachment for maximum CP, but in my games the lack of flexibility and not having the 2 Kopta squads made this version just not good enough.

Good thing is, all the versions above as well as the Freebooters one seem good and valid to me, so I guess that's a win.
Pre-CA my favourite was 1 ES + 1 BA outrider to get the best out of two worlds, but that's out of the picture now.

 Grotrebel wrote:

….For me Blood Axes are the best Clan atm….

 Jidmah wrote:
I find his insight on secondaries very interesting - there is way too little talk about these thoughts.

DoktaRoksta wrote:
Thanks, I only have 3 koptas right now. Should I get more do you think or get a Wazbom?

DoktaRoksta wrote:
]Don't change the list based on 1 opponent. At least try to win with what you're running ATM. It might not be the best thing out there but it only makes you a better general. In my experience, the weaker your list - the better your skill gets (if you try, ofc). You can not afford to make as many mistakes as you could have otherwise. And you start to notice more tactical possibilities when you're forced to use your brain and not just get the best possible net list and steamroll the enemy.

I was having similar thoughts today.
I mean I play for fun so losing isn’t a biggie, the last game we played was very even.
I would like to improve my list a bit so maybe I’ll play my list but am tempted to try it with a Wazbom.
Also I’ll need to adjust it a bit as the last time I played was before the points increase

 Grotrebel wrote:
@Tomsung: Yeah Custodes is a tough matchup for Speed Mob.
Did he play the -1 to hit banner and Bikes as well?

They have a lot of stuff that hurts us.

The Banner negates a lot of shooting, especially combined with dense terrain that means everything besides Wazbom and Dragstas can still hit on 6.
Their FNP against Mortals makes Ramming Speed and Chrashing through much worse.
Storm shields give them still a 2+ against Speedwaaagh Shootas.
In cover they still have a 2+ (3+ with Speed Waaagh) against almost all of our weapons.
5 wound Bikes have a solid chance to survive 1 hit from a Wazbom and will always take 2 Rokkits or 3 of our numerous D2 guns. T6 means a lot of our guns will only wound on 5+ which makes it really hard to chip off final wounds.
Strats like transhuman combined with the good invul and the CP reroll have a high possibility of tanking most of our low number of quality shots.
Koptas, one of our best units becomes mostly useless when they have their banner.
Their bikes are brutal against our stuff. That 3 + D3 damage means 2 hits can kill most of our Buggies, even a plane if he rolls hot and they evaporate Koptas and Bikes as well.

There are still a few options for Custodes to bring melee S8. Mostly D2 but still quite able to hurt our stuff..


On top of that they have a lot of good utility strategems and they are good in playing the Objective game against us since they have a similar model count but better obsec.

Finally they have the right army & tools to make the few Secondaries that Speedmob has really hard (Stranglehold, Get da good Bitz, Grind them down).
All the kill objectives don't give up many or any points at all (No Prisoners, Abhor the witch, bring it down) and the others aren't that great as well (engage which basically means loosing those engaging units against bikes really fast)
Assassination gives up 10 points but is hard to achieve as well.

Tough matchup for sure!

CaptainO wrote:
So there's literally no reason you can't use disappearing out of the sun the same turn you turn up. If GW don't faq it when they get the chance we're just self needing.

 Tomsug wrote:
Semper, I really want to see the results!

Do you know, what does this do to costodes list? Are you able to krump them? KMK are the only ones with the really right profile, but they will be dead turn 2 via custodes bikers.

Sec… what? No idea what are you speaking about


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Stormboyz dies on stiff breeze. That is their main problem.

Warbikers are on the other side very good in wound per point ratio. And with the -1 to hit even harder to kill. I don' t say it' s hard to kill them, but man have to use a real power. 5 Stormboyz will be shot down by 10 guardsman with lasguns.

gungo wrote:
I still find a squad of boomboy deffkoptas the best bang for buck.. going from ap-2 to ap-3 is huge with that many rokkits but you lose access to drive by Dakka. Same with flyboys on 5x deffkoptas…

Pyromaniacs on a unit of 2-3 KBB is marginally useful as well. But you are right if you don’t want to touch your deffkoptas klan and don’t use KBB it’s probably best to just throw flyboys/boomboys on a wazbom just to get that little extra push.