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@Tomsung: Yeah Custodes is a tough matchup for Speed Mob.
Did he play the -1 to hit banner and Bikes as well?

They have a lot of stuff that hurts us.

The Banner negates a lot of shooting, especially combined with dense terrain that means everything besides Wazbom and Dragstas can still hit on 6.
Their FNP against Mortals makes Ramming Speed and Chrashing through much worse.
Storm shields give them still a 2+ against Speedwaaagh Shootas.
In cover they still have a 2+ (3+ with Speed Waaagh) against almost all of our weapons.
5 wound Bikes have a solid chance to survive 1 hit from a Wazbom and will always take 2 Rokkits or 3 of our numerous D2 guns. T6 means a lot of our guns will only wound on 5+ which makes it really hard to chip off final wounds.
Strats like transhuman combined with the good invul and the CP reroll have a high possibility of tanking most of our low number of quality shots.
Koptas, one of our best units becomes mostly useless when they have their banner.
Their bikes are brutal against our stuff. That 3 + D3 damage means 2 hits can kill most of our Buggies, even a plane if he rolls hot and they evaporate Koptas and Bikes as well.

There are still a few options for Custodes to bring melee S8. Mostly D2 but still quite able to hurt our stuff..


On top of that they have a lot of good utility strategems and they are good in playing the Objective game against us since they have a similar model count but better obsec.

Finally they have the right army & tools to make the few Secondaries that Speedmob has really hard (Stranglehold, Get da good Bitz, Grind them down).
All the kill objectives don't give up many or any points at all (No Prisoners, Abhor the witch, bring it down) and the others aren't that great as well (engage which basically means loosing those engaging units against bikes really fast)
Assassination gives up 10 points but is hard to achieve as well.

Tough matchup for sure!

 Jidmah wrote:

Beardedragon wrote:
So.. When you guys do field groups of 10 Kommandos, do you go for the squig bomb upgrade or not?

I've started to skip it, as I find them dying with squig still unused or using it inefficiently just to not waste it too often. If I need to waste points and have nothing but kommandoz to spend it on, I rather get a breacher ram.

ive started thinking the same really. The only reason i would ever be able to get a good squig off is if i start 9 inches from the deployment zone, in which im already playing super risky. If i dont get turn 1 they are dead.

So thats not really a viable strategy. In my goff charge list i cant really see when i should be able to fire it. If i want to go for a turn 1 charge, then the kommandos will be advancing, and if i go for a turn 2 charge, i still wouldnt go within 12 inches of my enemy just to fire a squig bomb, because my enemy will move up 6 inches in most cases in his turn, and get like a 5-6 inch charge, which gets my kommandos killed. So without being able to advance and firing them, there doesnt seem to be a time where the squig bombs makes any sense on kommandos. Not unless you wanna go risky play as, i mentioned, and start 9 inches away to begin with and hope for a turn 1, or you expect your kommandos to be alive AFTER you have charged and he has had his turn after which you can then shoot off your squigs.

I should remove mine as well from my upcomming tournement list. Which annoys me as i JUST got them painted.

Ive been toying a bit with 3x2 mek gunz with Makari giving them a leadership of 6 within 12 inches. I dont know if ill go for it, but for some backline shooting to hold the back with maybe 2x10 grots it seems okay. While still running a 20 trukk boyz, 30 kommandos, 30 stormboyz and 9 squighogs.

Also maybe 5 or 6 Killa Kanz being deepstriked (deepstruck?) in.

Beardedragon wrote:
So.. When you guys do field groups of 10 Kommandos, do you go for the squig bomb upgrade or not?

I was using it, but I've moved to mobs of 5 for kommandos after the points bump

 Grotrebel wrote:
@Tomsung: Yeah Custodes is a tough matchup for Speed Mob.
Did he play the -1 to hit banner and Bikes as well?

They have a lot of stuff that hurts us.

The Banner negates a lot of shooting, especially combined with dense terrain that means everything besides Wazbom and Dragstas can still hit on 6.
Their FNP against Mortals makes Ramming Speed and Chrashing through much worse.
Storm shields give them still a 2+ against Speedwaaagh Shootas.
In cover they still have a 2+ (3+ with Speed Waaagh) against almost all of our weapons.
5 wound Bikes have a solid chance to survive 1 hit from a Wazbom and will always take 2 Rokkits or 3 of our numerous D2 guns. T6 means a lot of our guns will only wound on 5+ which makes it really hard to chip off final wounds.
Strats like transhuman combined with the good invul and the CP reroll have a high possibility of tanking most of our low number of quality shots.
Koptas, one of our best units becomes mostly useless when they have their banner.
Their bikes are brutal against our stuff. That 3 + D3 damage means 2 hits can kill most of our Buggies, even a plane if he rolls hot and they evaporate Koptas and Bikes as well.

There are still a few options for Custodes to bring melee S8. Mostly D2 but still quite able to hurt our stuff..


On top of that they have a lot of good utility strategems and they are good in playing the Objective game against us since they have a similar model count but better obsec.

Finally they have the right army & tools to make the few Secondaries that Speedmob has really hard (Stranglehold, Get da good Bitz, Grind them down).
All the kill objectives don't give up many or any points at all (No Prisoners, Abhor the witch, bring it down) and the others aren't that great as well (engage which basically means loosing those engaging units against bikes really fast)
Assassination gives up 10 points but is hard to achieve as well.

Tough matchup for sure!

Meh, no -1 to hit aura but a lot of woods on the table, so the result was the same. Or little bit better, because he had to sit in the woods and it criples his mobility even more. Hitting on 6 sucks. However, the game was pretty balanced, because we have a big advetage in speed. So we can do some tricks. He said, I was the hardest match for him. The result was something like 62:76 or something. Orks can score TTL pretty well with Speed Mob. Than I had about 8VP on No Prisoners and in mission 11 I scored 9 VP on Good Bitz.

I take some dragstas next time.

What is very important is do NOT charge him (mostly) because our melee is weak and mortals will be ignored AND his bloody captain will teleport to you (trick triggered by our charging). I had one game on the same mission againts similar list the day before on TTS and I did exactly this - charged his bikers to deal MW - and it ruined my game totaly.

After getting some more board time:
Is there any reason to take guns on a Transport battlewagon, and/or *not* to take a Deff Rolla?

The buff to melee damage from a Deff Rolla is enormous, while decking out the wagon with as many guns as it'll fit - Four Big Shootas, a Kannon, and a Lobba - did feth all for me. Goff Wagons get S10 on the charge or S9 otherwise, with enough attacks, AP, and Damage to lay down serious hurt. Meanwhile, the 30ish S5 AP- shots I threw out from my guns felt wildly impotent, barely managing to plink off one wound at a time from Space Marines. The guns collectively cost twice as much and did almost nothing, while the Rolla posed a serious threat.

Waaaghpower wrote:
After getting some more board time:
Is there any reason to take guns on a Transport battlewagon, and/or *not* to take a Deff Rolla?

The buff to melee damage from a Deff Rolla is enormous, while decking out the wagon with as many guns as it'll fit - Four Big Shootas, a Kannon, and a Lobba - did feth all for me. Goff Wagons get S10 on the charge or S9 otherwise, with enough attacks, AP, and Damage to lay down serious hurt. Meanwhile, the 30ish S5 AP- shots I threw out from my guns felt wildly impotent, barely managing to plink off one wound at a time from Space Marines. The guns collectively cost twice as much and did almost nothing, while the Rolla posed a serious threat.

As you have found buddy I usually don't bother with the guns on a wagon but always try and find the points for a 'rolla, it means you can threaten marines and equivalents in combat and as a transport the main thing is that it gets there and delivers its passengers plus being able to do some decent damage in combat really can come in handy. It is also a big footprint and I have used it to good effect to move block\jam up an avenue of movement for the enemy, soak up overwatch and just generally get in the way so the cheaper the better !

If the rolla meets anything in melee it paid for itself (not the wagon as a whole, the rolla specifically). If a wagon manages to survive long enough to deploy whatever was in it, w/o a rolla its just a big mobile wall but with a rolla it can still mulch things enough to draw significant attention.
If the guns fire instead of advancing, you might do 1-2 wounds to something. Might.

I never put guns on them anymore. Bigshoota is "better" than it used to be but still pretty pathetic, and the big guns mess with capacity and/or are quite pricy for a BS5 shot.

Battlewagon gun options definitely disappointed, they really weren't touched at all despite the overhaul basically the entirety of our shooting armory got. Every kind of Rokkit weapon increased in shot count, while kannons, lobbas, and killkannons stay the same? The Zzap Gun continues to be one of our coolest guns flavorwise and the most disappointing gun crunchwise- meanwhile the wurrboy tower basically got the profile Zzap Guns should have.

Zzag zap used to be cool but not anymore. Only wagon + gun combination that works is Kannonwagon with grot Gunner on SuppaKannon and Big shootas that cost you 0 points. That is the only good price.

 addnid wrote:
Double disapearing koptas out da sun is gone now from what i heard, for all 40k units, not just for us!

Where did you see this? Speed mobz got no love when they released the faqs recently. I can see no mention in the big rule book faqs.

Technically they can nerf it in the campaign book faq, but currently it’s still the same…
We are orks though…. It will get nerfed… we can’t have nice things…
Like they could have fixed biker nobs but don’t care enough…

So there's literally no reason you can't use disappearing out of the sun the same turn you turn up. If GW don't faq it when they get the chance we're just self needing.

CaptainO wrote:
So there's literally no reason you can't use disappearing out of the sun the same turn you turn up. If GW don't faq it when they get the chance we're just self needing.

Yeah. I house rule it so, that one squad can drop or faid in a turn. Not drop and faid.

Waaaghpower wrote:
After getting some more board time:
Is there any reason to take guns on a Transport battlewagon, and/or *not* to take a Deff Rolla?

The buff to melee damage from a Deff Rolla is enormous, while decking out the wagon with as many guns as it'll fit - Four Big Shootas, a Kannon, and a Lobba - did feth all for me. Goff Wagons get S10 on the charge or S9 otherwise, with enough attacks, AP, and Damage to lay down serious hurt. Meanwhile, the 30ish S5 AP- shots I threw out from my guns felt wildly impotent, barely managing to plink off one wound at a time from Space Marines. The guns collectively cost twice as much and did almost nothing, while the Rolla posed a serious threat.

I find 4 Big Shootas alongside a Speedboss as 24 Ap1 shots followed by 20 more does enough a dent to merit attention from opponents and then it´s a win. The BW is mostly a distraction after all.

On the Big Shootas + Speedboss note, I also like a Bossbunka full of of them. No one likes spending muntions on a 95 point hollow rock, but when it spits 15 Ap1 shots per turn on top of the Gaze they reconsider.

Yeah, that looks like a well balanced game…

Just a quick question. I got the Kommandos box for my birthday recently and wondered whether they are better as a squad of 10 or two 5s. Just asking before I build them up

Short answer: Both is viable, depends on what list you run and what will be their job.
If you just want some forward screening and cheap Objective grabbing go for 2 x 5.

If you want something like a Goff pressure list that hurts the opponent turn 1 go for 10.
10 have also a better chance of surviving Overwatch and tie up something shooty for a turn.

No wolves on Fenris wrote:
Just a quick question. I got the Kommandos box for my birthday recently and wondered whether they are better as a squad of 10 or two 5s. Just asking before I build them up

I'd suggest building all the special weapons and add a box of (old) boyz and kommando them up with the extra bits you have. Then you can switch in and out weapons as you like, or run two mobs of 10.

Alternatively, get yourself some greenstuff and magnetize everything. I've read that it's not too hard.

Always keep in mind that rules will eventually change to invalidate whatever you are building today. This is not a question of IF, but merely a question of WHEN. Make sure to prepare accordingly.

 Jidmah wrote:

No wolves on Fenris wrote:
Just a quick question. I got the Kommandos box for my birthday recently and wondered whether they are better as a squad of 10 or two 5s. Just asking before I build them up

I'd suggest building all the special weapons and add a box of (old) boyz and kommando them up with the extra bits you have. Then you can switch in any out weapons as you like, or run two mobs of 10.

Alternatively, get yourself some greenstuff and magnetize everything. I've read that it's not too hard.

Always keep in mind that rules will eventually change to invalidate whatever you are building today. This is not a question of IF, but merely a question of WHEN. Make sure to prepare accordingly.

*Cries in two glued deff dreads with melee arms*

Thank you for all the responses. This really is the most helpful and prolific tactics thread on dakka. (I also have BT and barely anything is posted on their thread).

My list mainly goes for Boys over toys just because that’s what I like and how I think of Orks.

So it has 2x choppa boyz (20) 2x shoota boyz (10) 10x stormboyz 5xwarbikes 3x defkoptas 8x meganobz a pain boy a MA war boss a weirdboy a big Mek with KFF a battle wagon and then the 10x Kommandos

I think the objective grabbing idea would work for the 2x5 squad but I do like the idea of buying another box of (definitely old) boyz and Kommando them up

Beardedragon wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

No wolves on Fenris wrote:
Just a quick question. I got the Kommandos box for my birthday recently and wondered whether they are better as a squad of 10 or two 5s. Just asking before I build them up

I'd suggest building all the special weapons and add a box of (old) boyz and kommando them up with the extra bits you have. Then you can switch in any out weapons as you like, or run two mobs of 10.

Alternatively, get yourself some greenstuff and magnetize everything. I've read that it's not too hard.

Always keep in mind that rules will eventually change to invalidate whatever you are building today. This is not a question of IF, but merely a question of WHEN. Make sure to prepare accordingly.

*Cries in two glued deff dreads with melee arms*

I think full melee 85ppm dreads are currently the best dreads, and the squad of two is exactly my favorite size. For any klan since you can make them big krumpaz if you don't run goffs.

 Scactha wrote:

Waaaghpower wrote:
After getting some more board time:
Is there any reason to take guns on a Transport battlewagon, and/or *not* to take a Deff Rolla?

The buff to melee damage from a Deff Rolla is enormous, while decking out the wagon with as many guns as it'll fit - Four Big Shootas, a Kannon, and a Lobba - did feth all for me. Goff Wagons get S10 on the charge or S9 otherwise, with enough attacks, AP, and Damage to lay down serious hurt. Meanwhile, the 30ish S5 AP- shots I threw out from my guns felt wildly impotent, barely managing to plink off one wound at a time from Space Marines. The guns collectively cost twice as much and did almost nothing, while the Rolla posed a serious threat.

I find 4 Big Shootas alongside a Speedboss as 24 Ap1 shots followed by 20 more does enough a dent to merit attention from opponents and then it´s a win. The BW is mostly a distraction after all.

On the Big Shootas + Speedboss note, I also like a Bossbunka full of of them. No one likes spending muntions on a 95 point hollow rock, but when it spits 15 Ap1 shots per turn on top of the Gaze they reconsider.

speedboss only buffs speed freak models so no planes or BWs

 Blackie wrote:

Beardedragon wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

No wolves on Fenris wrote:
Just a quick question. I got the Kommandos box for my birthday recently and wondered whether they are better as a squad of 10 or two 5s. Just asking before I build them up

I'd suggest building all the special weapons and add a box of (old) boyz and kommando them up with the extra bits you have. Then you can switch in any out weapons as you like, or run two mobs of 10.

Alternatively, get yourself some greenstuff and magnetize everything. I've read that it's not too hard.

Always keep in mind that rules will eventually change to invalidate whatever you are building today. This is not a question of IF, but merely a question of WHEN. Make sure to prepare accordingly.

*Cries in two glued deff dreads with melee arms*

I think full melee 85ppm dreads are currently the best dreads, and the squad of two is exactly my favorite size. For any klan since you can make them big krumpaz if you don't run goffs.

sure but i cant run them as anything but melee variants. no scorchas added, no KMBs no nothing sadly.

And next edition it doesnt matter whats best, cant undo the mess i created long ago.

Sigh

yeah i have 3 deffdreads that are glued for the main 2 klaw arms, one thats also glued for a third and a flamer.
Considering i have been using 3D print proxies because i like the models way better in most cases im tempted to just sell those deffdreads since they just collect dust and has been collecting dust for like 5 years.

 Jidmah wrote:

Beardedragon wrote:
So.. When you guys do field groups of 10 Kommandos, do you go for the squig bomb upgrade or not?

I've started to skip it, as I find them dying with squig still unused or using it inefficiently just to not waste it too often. If I need to waste points and have nothing but kommandoz to spend it on, I rather get a breacher ram.

Believe it or not, I'm with Jidmah on this one. i've started noticing my opponents have adjusted to killing the Kommandos as fast as possible, and with the recent 20% price hike if I forego the Bomb squig and grot its only 5pts more expensive than before. The more important thing for me is getting as many bodies into my opponents deployment zone Turn 1. So losing out on 1-3MW isn't as big as losing out on 1 whole unit not getting into CC.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Going to be heading to my first GT of the season next month and updated my Alphork strike list to compensate for the nerfs we got slapped with. Let me know what you guys think and any tweaks I should make. Reminder, the list is less concerned with objectives turn 1-2 then it is with slaughtering my opponent so I can cap all the objectives in turns 3-5 with ease.

Also please recommend secondaries with my list

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/803640.page

I have about 30 Stormboyz, and mmm possibly upwards of 15 ish bikes (maybe more after converting)?

Are Stormboyz good in Deathskullz but Warbikers better in any list?

Is that a fair assumption?

Looking to where I can apply my painting effort more.

thanks kindly.

popisdead wrote:
I have about 30 Stormboyz, and mmm possibly upwards of 15 ish bikes (maybe more after converting)?

Are Stormboyz good in Deathskullz but Warbikers better in any list?

Is that a fair assumption?

Looking to where I can apply my painting effort more.

thanks kindly.

Stormboys are good as Deathskulls and Goffs.

Warbikers are good as Freebootas, Evil Sunz, Goffs and have niche uses as Bad Moonz.

Using something like Semper's Goff pressure list would be a very good basis for a Stormboy/warbikers focused army.

Semper, I really want to see the results!

Do you know, what does this do to costodes list? Are you able to krump them? KMK are the only ones with the really right profile, but they will be dead turn 2 via custodes bikers.

Sec… what? No idea what are you speaking about


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Stormboyz dies on stiff breeze. That is their main problem.

Warbikers are on the other side very good in wound per point ratio. And with the -1 to hit even harder to kill. I don' t say it' s hard to kill them, but man have to use a real power. 5 Stormboyz will be shot down by 10 guardsman with lasguns.

1-2 x 6 Stormboys are viable in every Clan as deepstriking backup for Retrieve.
I switched from 5 to a unit of 6 though, as you really don't want to fail the action because you rolled a 6.

I used to run large mobs with Goffs, but I switched to more Warbikers instead.

They might see more play if Warbikers get a price hike in the future, as they are not very killy but offer some flexibility for different secondaries and are our only fast infantry besides infiltrating Kommandos.
If you plan to win by swarming your opponent turn 1-2 there are better options, if you want some additional scoring options go for some.

They are basically your go-to option if you want a bit more security for scoring in the Alphork lists, but that's all.

 Tomsug wrote:
Semper, I really want to see the results!

Do you know, what does this do to costodes list? Are you able to krump them? KMK are the only ones with the really right profile, but they will be dead turn 2 via custodes bikers.

Sec… what? No idea what are you speaking about


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Stormboyz dies on stiff breeze. That is their main problem.

Warbikers are on the other side very good in wound per point ratio. And with the -1 to hit even harder to kill. I don' t say it' s hard to kill them, but man have to use a real power. 5 Stormboyz will be shot down by 10 guardsman with lasguns.

However, I' m surprised, you skipped the third Trukkboyz. Kommandos price rise and new CA with the mission nerfing the pre-game move, I expected you will skip some Kommandos and make even bigger accent on the Trukks