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**H.B.M.C.**

Crimson wrote:
Are the Cadians seven feet tall?

Yes. Because Cadians are the ones that are out of scale, not the Marines. The Cadian models are too tall.

Crimson wrote:
Also, AFAIK, there is no citation for either Custodes or Primaris being eight feet tall.

They're taller than Marines. Marines are 7 feet tall. Ergo...

**ClockworkZion**

IIRC my Rogue Trader properly, 1" = approx 2m so 1" tall Marines were only ~6'5" when they first came out. Later we got the famour Jes Goodwin in front of a full scale Tactical Marine and the scale has been off between the armies ever since considering for Marines 1" = 7' while Catachan turn 1" = 6'. Guess the Marines borrowed half a foot from the Guard?

**Gallahad**

How much do I need to save up buy that Necromunda box?

Never played a game of Necromunda before, but that looks cool.

**Thargrim**

Gallahad wrote:
How much do I need to save up buy that Necromunda box?

Never played a game of Necromunda before, but that looks cool.

300 usd at least, hive war is 170 and comes with a lot less stuff. Tbh I think hive war is way overpriced for what it is. I'm kinda terrified of the potential price for this new box.

**Voss**

ClockworkZion wrote:
IIRC my Rogue Trader properly, 1" = approx 2m so 1" tall Marines were only ~6'5" when they first came out. Later we got the famour Jes Goodwin in front of a full scale Tactical Marine and the scale has been off between the armies ever since considering for Marines 1" = 7' while Catachan turn 1" = 6'. Guess the Marines borrowed half a foot from the Guard?

Well, kinda. Rogue Trader mentions 1" to 2 meters specifically for the 'ground scale,' and that its malleable if you feel like it. It then goes on to mention (after digressing into 1 model = 1 man) that ranges for weapons are unusually low for wargames, but that with individual weapons firing single shots, it makes for a better game. It doesn't really account for model scale, just that a bolter or autogun having a short range of 12" (24 meters) is there for game design reasons, not realism.

**AllSeeingSkink**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
Crimson wrote:
Are the Cadians seven feet tall?
Yes. Because Cadians are the ones that are out of scale, not the Marines. The Cadian models are too tall.

That would assume we know what scale 40k is "supposed" to be.

It's also not just Cadians, I believe DKoK from FW are the same height as Cadians, they're just less chonky.

**Albertorius**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
Crimson wrote:
Are the Cadians seven feet tall?
Yes. Because Cadians are the ones that are out of scale, not the Marines. The Cadian models are too tall.

So are basically all other models, then. More egregious would be the new SoB.

That would mean that everything and anything except marines (with the possible exception of GSC) is out of scale, instead of the other, more plausible explanation, re: OG SMs are stupendously small in comparison with the rest of the ranges.

H.B.M.C. wrote:
Crimson wrote:
Also, AFAIK, there is no citation for either Custodes or Primaris being eight feet tall.
They're taller than Marines. Marines are 7 feet tall. Ergo...

Apply that to the SoB photo above and funnily enough you get the same conclusion.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

ClockworkZion wrote:
IIRC my Rogue Trader properly, 1" = approx 2m so 1" tall Marines were only ~6'5" when they first came out. Later we got the famour Jes Goodwin in front of a full scale Tactical Marine and the scale has been off between the armies ever since considering for Marines 1" = 7' while Catachan turn 1" = 6'. Guess the Marines borrowed half a foot from the Guard?

In the RT era marines were regular humans. As to the comparison with Cadians/Catachans/etc, I always felt the biggest problem was that there was no way in hell for one of them to fit inside a SM armor.

**tauist**

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
tauist wrote:
Soundtheory wrote:
tauist wrote:
AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Late to the party, but is that HH beakie marine true scaled? Looks like longer legs than your average tactical marine.

Rescaled yes. This from Reddit:

I think that old Mk IV Marine might be made too large in the picture; the plastic Mk IV's didn't even come up to a Primaris's shoulders.

http://www.betweenthebolterandme.com/2017/06/primaris-space-marines-first-impressions.html

The new CSM have the head coming just over a Primaris's shoulder?

https://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer40k/comments/9tpfzp/chaos_space_marine_size_comparison/

I'm happy for the new size, sad we probably will not see the Mk IV and III re-scaled, accept maybe as assault or heavy weapon kits.

Yes, it's possible this photoshopped comparison pict isnt 100% accurate, but it's roughly in the ballpark.

And regarding rescaling Mk III & Mk IV kits, I think they will happen, but they will be the last kits to get the rescaling treatment, because the vast majority of legion specific resin parts rely on those two kits. So as long as they are selling resin legion specific bits, the plastics need to remain in their existing scale or they will no longer match the resins. This might not even be 100% related to scale differences, since its possible that the upcoming rescaled marine kits have a different torso design from the old kits (ie they will not be ballsocket upper/lower torso builds).

Remember that heads and shoulder pads fit just fine on rescaled Marines and even Primaris. Going from my Plague Marines I'd say the only problem are two-handed weapons because the torsi of New Marines are wider.

Heads and shoulder pads are not the issue here. Legs and chestpieces are. Many FW legion specific kits come with either one or both.

**ZergSmasher**

I've never been seriously interested in Necromunda.

Until now. Those Ash Waste guys are awesome, and the bug riders are even more so! And Orlock was probably the gang I would have gone in for if I had gotten into the game before, so the new box is full of win for me, if I were to decide to take the plunge.

**tauist**

That new Ash Wastes box terrain will also make a great Kill Team board for DKoK vs Kommandos! (just model every Kommando with a gasmasked head)

**Danny76**

Right.
If, IF I get this Necromunda box...
I’ve gotta think about terrain going forward. Base everything around this style.
GW Containers, In. Throw a sandy blown look to them.
Even old 40k ruins/buildings and such could work with all that sand blasted ancient look to it.
Maybe where it was an old city or outpost before these Nomad type buildings sprung up around it since etc..

**SamusDrake**

The next few days are the gaming side of things, I take it?

**chaos0xomega**

Thargrim wrote:
Gallahad wrote:
How much do I need to save up buy that Necromunda box?

Never played a game of Necromunda before, but that looks cool.

300 usd at least, hive war is 170 and comes with a lot less stuff. Tbh I think hive war is way overpriced for what it is. I'm kinda terrified of the potential price for this new box.

Nah, thats probably still a roughly $200 box.

**NAVARRO**

Danny76 wrote:
Right.
If, IF I get this Necromunda box...
I’ve gotta think about terrain going forward. Base everything around this style.
GW Containers, In. Throw a sandy blown look to them.
Even old 40k ruins/buildings and such could work with all that sand blasted ancient look to it.
Maybe where it was an old city or outpost before these Nomad type buildings sprung up around it since etc..

I think most Necromunda terrain will work, even the current 3d tiles as long as you give them the same finish, Pigments and dust powders will make all look cohesive.

I mean theres always going to be parts that intersect both hive cities and sand wastes.

I can see the other way around too, the new terrain painted to fit a typical Necromunda table.

**Crimson**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
Crimson wrote:
Are the Cadians seven feet tall?
Yes. Because Cadians are the ones that are out of scale, not the Marines. The Cadian models are too tall.

And all the other normal humans too? That ship has sailed a long time ago, mate.

Crimson wrote:
Also, AFAIK, there is no citation for either Custodes or Primaris being eight feet tall.
They're taller than Marines. Marines are 7 feet tall. Ergo...

You do understand that Planck length is quite a bit less than a foot? I don't know if this some hang-up for people who are used to using imperial units or what, but for some reason it seems a lot of people seem to be unable to conceive a person being taller than another and the height difference being less than a foot. Like perhaps the Primaris are about ten centimetres taller than non-primaris? That's about what it looks like in the art when they're depicted together, and that would make sense regarding the updated models too.

**tauist**

You could even add sand & texture paste to a Sector imperialis board to make it look like an abandoned settlement half buried in sand. Add a few pieces of ruins, scatter terrain..

And for sure the opposite will work just as well. These hab buildings will look the business in a 40K death world board, for example.. or any other board which features less urban areas.

**Dread Master**

Anyone here who doesn’t get that nothing would make GW happier than driving the price of these boxes over 300 usd and beyond if they are able, doesn’t really understand their sales strategy AT ALL.

**insaniak**

Albertorius wrote:

That would mean that everything and anything except marines (with the possible exception of GSC) is out of scale, instead of the other, more plausible explanation, re: OG SMs are stupendously small in comparison with the rest of the ranges.

Well, yes, it can certainly be argued that Space Marines being too small when compared to pretty much every plastic kit released after them is a problem with the design of those other kits rather than the Marine kit. If GW had designed the later kits to be in scale with the Marines, then Marines wouldn't now be too small.

**AllSeeingSkink**

insaniak wrote:
Albertorius wrote:

That would mean that everything and anything except marines (with the possible exception of GSC) is out of scale, instead of the other, more plausible explanation, re: OG SMs are stupendously small in comparison with the rest of the ranges.

Well, yes, it can certainly be argued that Space Marines being too small when compared to pretty much every plastic kit released after them is a problem with the design of those other kits rather than the Marine kit. If GW had designed the later kits to be in scale with the Marines, then Marines wouldn't now be too small.

Didn’t the catachans and cadians predate any marine kit currently on the market?

**insaniak**

To be fair, I don't remember for sure if the Catachans came out in early third ed or very late 2nd. If the latter, then yes, they would pre-date the Marines, who were released with the 3rd ed starter set.

Although even if they dropped earlier, the plastic Catachans were noticably larger than the metals they replaced, so it doesn't really invalidate the point that the problem is everything else getting larger rather than Marines being too small.

The Cadians were definitely later, though.

**RazorEdge**

Catachans came in August 1998, a month before 3rd Edition (as I know).

**Platuan4th**

Plastic Catachans came out during 3rd, not before. They were part of the 3rd ed Codex release.

**Albertorius**

Not sure how relevant that is anyway, given there's no space marine minis left from that time and all the current ones were done much later.

When the problem is one thing is different from everything else, common logic dictates you change that one thing, not the other way around. I still think that was the original idea with primaris.

**insaniak**

The current plastic first born Marine are the same as the plastics that came in the third ed starter set. They've had some minor revisions when the sprue was revised last time, and had some parts added, but the bulk of the kit is exactly the same parts.

**MonkeyBallistic**

insaniak wrote:
Albertorius wrote:

That would mean that everything and anything except marines (with the possible exception of GSC) is out of scale, instead of the other, more plausible explanation, re: OG SMs are stupendously small in comparison with the rest of the ranges.

Well, yes, it can certainly be argued that Space Marines being too small when compared to pretty much every plastic kit released after them is a problem with the design of those other kits rather than the Marine kit. If GW had designed the later kits to be in scale with the Marines, then Marines wouldn't now be too small.

No they wouldn’t be too small, but they’d still look like garbage with their horrible proportions. The new Mk VI marines are a huge improvement.

**Hairesy**

Love how old Marine sculpts are suddenly garbage now. I wonder how long it will be before Primaris are goofy gangly monkey models? Probably right around the same time GW releases yet another SM line or... ??

**Voss**

Hairesy wrote:
Love how old Marine sculpts are suddenly garbage now. I wonder how long it will be before Primaris are goofy gangly monkey models? Probably right around the same time GW releases yet another SM line or... ??

Suddenly?
'Squat marines' complaints have been around for decades, as have 'truescale' projects.

**insaniak**

I mean, yeah, some people have been complaining about GW's model proportions for a very long time. The release of Primaris did make it more obvious.

I never had a problem with GW's marines in the past (other than the occasional Terminator character with no obvious way of connecting his arms to his torso...) but even with no interest in buying Primaris models, I can acknowledge that the old guys look poor by comparison. Enough to make me wish that they had just tweaked the proportions of the regular marines rather than releasing embiggened Marines 2.0.

**Hairesy**

Let's put it this way. Were the old Marines so bad that you felt the need to chop them up and give them shin implants? If you never made a truescale army, then it didn't bother you that much.

Besides, I thought this was "heroic" scale! I'm pretty generally not worried about realistic proportions when it comes to transhuman super soldiers, hot space elfs, evil hot space elfs, killer robots, killer bugs, or green people who come from mushrooms. Just don't keep making the damn models bigger! Lol!

**JWBS**

I like marines a lot and stopped buying them altogether when they released Cadians, that's when I noticed they were bizarrely proportioned. I continued painting minis on and off, just not marines. I got back into the hobby more seriously when they made Primaris.