Tau 8th Edition Tactics

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**Traceoftoxin**

Missile crisis suits are 48 points per damage vs T7/3+ equivalent. That's not bad, but 40PPD is the benchmark to aim for with dedicated AT.

They are assault weapons so they can move and shoot. They have solid range.

But they're still just a wee bit overpriced.

Missilesides are around 36PPD, and far more durable. Even with TL instead of ATS, they're at 49.5 PPD, while being nearly as mobile (No fly) as Crisis, far more durable and having missiles that can also fire out of LOS.

Unless they made crisis possible troops again, there really isn't a good reason to take them.

Though, there may be an argument to taking fusion/cib bombs. They are both mid/high 20s PPD without any strats/markerlights. With fly they can jump from BLOS to BLOS and try to pick off targets of opportunity. Still talking close to 250 pts for 9 T5 wounds, which isn't great in a world where everyone has to be equipped to deal with knights.

I'd say they went from unplayable trash to completely playable in casual, and possibly niche uses in competitive.

**Pottsey**

Tyel wrote:
Pottsey wrote:
Why is it absurd? The broadside only puts out 8 missile pod shots and 8 weaker smart missile shots which is only 16shots. The crisis 3 man team put out 18 missile pod shots. Plus you can get a larger squad of Crisis and give the entire squad reroll miss and reroll wounds. It looks to me like it is very much competing against missile broadsides as those missile pod Crisis teams can wipe out very large targets in turn 1 in 1 volley. Points per heavy missile looks to work out better on Crisis over Broadsides.

You also missed Cyclic Ion Blasters possible the best weapon to use on Crisis far better then plasma, burst or flamers.

Its because unless I am doing something wrong a Broadside with missiles and ATS now costs 121 points.
Whereas three triple missile crisis suits costs 216.
If you were to say ditch the ATS (don't) you could almost get 2 broadsides for the cost of 3 missile crisis suits.18 missiles, vs 16 missiles plus 16 smart missile shots. Also a better save and more combined wounds. The broadsides have the downside of being heavy but that's about it.

By my mathhammer at least the pod (either 3 straight up, or 2 with ATS) suffers from a real absence of optimal targets. The triple pod gets good scores against Ravagers - which is nice I guess - and as you say, Ions are better.

The problem with crisis suits is finding the sweet spot between doing damage yourself and not offering your opponent a points pinata. Crisis suits with pods or ion blasters offer an efficient return for almost every unit in the game. You can cover them with hordes of drones - but that is expensive. Would manta striking in with 9 Ion shots for a bit under 250 points be "worth it"? I'm not convinced in a world where apparently Ravagers are "fine".

I think the changes have made Crisis suits less of a handicap if you want to bring them along to casual games - tbf the plasma variant is quite good against MEQ armies (if you have a friend who plays Primaris etc) - but I am not convinced they are any closer to being a competitive tournament choice.

My "try to make it work" unit is the Piranha. With a fusion blaster you pay 7 points more than the equivalent crisis suit. You lose a point of armour but gain 3 wounds. At the same time you have double the speed and when it dies you get 1-2 drones who can keep grabbing objectives. Its not a beat stick, but in terms of winning games it could have a place.

What I was thinking was you can have up to 9 Crisis with triple missile pods all benefiting from CNC and Kauyon which is a far more a deadly volley then what you can get out of Broadsides.
Not sure I would take as many as 9 but when you start looking at synergy wouldn’t a larger Crisis suit team with CNC and Kayoun outperform a broadside squad with CNC and Kayoun at least the first turn or two?

**Xenomancers**

Enforcers commanders with CIB are the best thing Tau have. Affordable crisis gives you a unit you can move up with your enforcers - give them SG and 2 missle pod and they are tough to bring down and can reach out and touch backfield units (These are things broadsides can't do) they can also advance and shoot on marker lighted targets without penalty making them pretty quick.

You can also use them to push markerlight drones up the feild with a drone controler and probably just cheap guns like plasma or burst cannons. Stealth suits might do this better though.

They seem about the right price for what you get - but they aren't worth taking FB or CIB on. That tips them over the edge point wise.

**Xirax**

Hey,
Quick question from an opponent. I pöayed against Tau today.. Man you get some serious fire power.

My opponent had a commander and he maneuvered 40" move ignoring all terrain/units and move and advanced inside a building, shot and flew 6" outside building through a solid wall outside of line of sight. My question is this: Is all movement done by jetpacks counted as flying, in this case, advancing and that 6" 1cp strat. On the Meq & jumppack side we can only use our jumppacks for only once/turn.

That's one mean maneuver for sure.

**Pottsey**

Xirax wrote:
Hey,
Quick question from an opponent. I pöayed against Tau today.. Man you get some serious fire power.

My opponent had a commander and he maneuvered 40" move ignoring all terrain/units and move and advanced inside a building, shot and flew 6" outside building through a solid wall outside of line of sight. My question is this: Is all movement done by jetpacks counted as flying, in this case, advancing and that 6" 1cp strat. On the Meq & jumppack side we can only use our jumppacks for only once/turn.

That's one mean maneuver for sure.

That's the ColdStar commander who can move 20" and advance 20" with fly. Unless they lose a weapon and take Target Lock they do get -1 to hit for advancing.
With the wall they can move over the wall for free but they cannot move though a wall in an enclosed building.

With the Relic Vectored Manoeuvring thruster they get an extra 6" move after shooting.

EDIT: Before the FAQ that was legal, after the newest FAQ fly is in the movement phase only and that 6" move cannot use the fly rule. Its a very easy change to miss. The Tau player could have easily have made a mistake as it used to be allowed.

**Trunkello**

Question regarding the new point costs. Is it worth getting a taunar now? I love the model its gorgeous. But i dobt know if i will be able to use it. Against 5 knight lists it must be awesome but its hard to put into a 2000 point list. Isnt it better to just bring 3 yvahras? Or its a model for 3000 and up games?
Also i fear that they can just nerf it back to 2000 points any time...

**Ice_can**

Pottsey wrote:
Xirax wrote:
Hey,
Quick question from an opponent. I pöayed against Tau today.. Man you get some serious fire power.

My opponent had a commander and he maneuvered 40" move ignoring all terrain/units and move and advanced inside a building, shot and flew 6" outside building through a solid wall outside of line of sight. My question is this: Is all movement done by jetpacks counted as flying, in this case, advancing and that 6" 1cp strat. On the Meq & jumppack side we can only use our jumppacks for only once/turn.

That's one mean maneuver for sure.

That's the ColdStar commander who can move 20" and advance 20" with fly. Unless they lose a weapon and take Target Lock they do get -1 to hit for advancing.
With the wall they can move over the wall for free but they cannot move though a wall in an enclosed building.

With the Relic Vectored Manoeuvring thruster they get an extra 6" move after shooting.

EDIT: Before the FAQ that was legal, after the newest FAQ fly is in the movement phase only and that 6" move cannot use the fly rule. Its a very easy change to miss. The Tau player could have easily have made a mistake as it used to be allowed.

It's a bit of a TFG move but as it's just move 6" in the shooting phase, and not asif the movement phase, technically your not bound by the movement phase rules.
I wouldn't play it like that but it's a wierd little oversight. Presumably to stop coldstars doing 80" across the board

**pumaman1**

At work, so I don't have my book on me, do drones have a rule like 6/7th where they cannot take objectives? B/C if not, the now 58 pt piranhas are annoying objective holders to deal with. Hardly resilient, but with the emergency disembark rules, enemy shoots at the piranhas, they die, now we have a new (no credit for kill points) drone unit per piranha. So 3 piranha go, 6 t5W 4+ to chew through, then 2 more (5/6 of the time) t4 4+ 1 unit at a time to chew through after that

**Tyel**

Pottsey wrote:
What I was thinking was you can have up to 9 Crisis with triple missile pods all benefiting from CNC and Kauyon which is a far more a deadly volley then what you can get out of Broadsides.
Not sure I would take as many as 9 but when you start looking at synergy wouldn’t a larger Crisis suit team with CNC and Kayoun outperform a broadside squad with CNC and Kayoun at least the first turn or two?

Its an option. For that one volley you are going to do a lot of damage and sure - ignoring points you get more out of CNC when buffing 54 pod shots rather than 24 pod shots and 24 smart missile shots.

But - those broadsides can have ATS which will tend to help. They are around 360 points versus almost 650.

With around 40-50 points spare, you could CNC a 3 broadside unit & have 2 Kauyoned broadsides in another squad - which would mean 40 pod shots and 40 smart missiles with -1 AP - versus your 54 missiles.
Technically versus say a Knight with a 3++ save your version is better - but on the other hand its very inflexible, and if you don't have first turn its asking to be shot to bits (and losing 71 point models to moral hurts.) You can drone, but you can't hide without undermining Kauyon.
Versus just about anything else I think the broadsides would be better.

**Xenomancers**

Another cool thing is bodygaurds went down. So we can protect MVP longstrike from alpha strike.

Long strike is priority 1 - but if they have to eat through 4ish hidden sheild drones - plus 3 crisis suits with an irridium suit and SG. They might just say forget it - I'm shooting something else! Which is marvelous for Longstrike. Cause he is godmode.

Just take the cheapest suits possible?
3 Sheild gens/ an irridum suit and like 4 burst cannons? or go ahead and give them missle pods?

**Ice_can**

Xenomancers wrote:
Another cool thing is bodygaurds went down. So we can protect MVP longstrike from alpha strike.

Long strike is priority 1 - but if they have to eat through 4ish hidden sheild drones - plus 3 crisis suits with an irridium suit and SG. They might just say forget it - I'm shooting something else! Which is marvelous for Longstrike. Cause he is godmode.

Just take the cheapest suits possible?
3 Sheild gens/ an irridum suit and like 4 burst cannons? or go ahead and give them missle pods?

Why are you taking the shield drones?
The suits can be out of LoS and naked for this job for the cheapest available wounds possible.
It's still a lotnof points though and hammerheads IMHO just lack survivability for it to be worthwhile. Someone who can 1 turn a castellen will have no issues 1 turning 3 hammerheads at which point longstike has nothing to buff.

**BoomWolf**

True, but you might as well stick missiles on them, and then have drones behind LoS and do a wound shuffle (longstrike to suit, then longstrike to drone)

**Xenomancers**

BoomWolf wrote:
True, but you might as well stick missiles on them, and then have drones behind LoS and do a wound shuffle (longstrike to suit, then longstrike to drone)

That is what I was thinking. Realistially - you want them to shoot at this trap and I feel like getting some firepower out of it will intice it and also you might need the firepower at some point. Also - a decent place to put a drone controller.

**Ice_can**

Xenomancers wrote:
BoomWolf wrote:
True, but you might as well stick missiles on them, and then have drones behind LoS and do a wound shuffle (longstrike to suit, then longstrike to drone)

That is what I was thinking. Realistially - you want them to shoot at this trap and I feel like getting some firepower out of it will intice it and also you might need the firepower at some point.

Drones can't intercept wounds for longstrike only thr bodyguards can and the drones can't intercept mortal wounds which is what the bodyguards take to save longstrike, it will keep longstrike alive longer but as I said 1 longstike meh I can still mince your 3 hammerheads T1 and retaliation without your hammerheads for longstike to buff is meh.

**ZergSmasher**

Believe it or not, I'm not sure but what it could be worth it to take Dahyek Grehk (the Kroot from Blackstone Fortress) in a Tau list. He takes up an Elite slot, but he's only 20 points, and even if his ability only kills 3 Ork Boyz or something, he's made his points back. If he can use his MW ability to kill 3 Devastators/Long Fangs, or a Terminator, or some other elite model(s), he's definitely worth it. Battalions have 6 Elite slots, so there's probably room for him, and you could use him in a cheap Vanguard, too.

**BoomWolf**

Sure, it technically CAN kill 3 devs.

Mathematically though? it wont. it can be expected to deal 1MW on average, and that's just not something that is often even relevant.

Its a nice trick to have up your sleeve in case you got spare points as it might just work, but nothing to actually consider.

**Ice_can**

Can't say Tau is a codex that suffers from lack of options in the elite slot, maybe in cheap elites but usually your struggling to add that last unit you want once you have the competitive units backbone of double battalion or brigade of Firewarriors, drones, riptides, commander, fireblade and marksmen.

**Mr. Funktastic**

Looking at all the reductions across the board for less used battlesuits like the Crisis suits and Ghostkeel and their weapons, is it likely we'll see battlesuit armies be a thing for Tau again? Always loved the Tau battlesuits aesthetic and it would be great to see them be at least somewhat good.

**Ice_can**

Mr. Funktastic wrote:
Looking at all the reductions across the board for less used battlesuits like the Crisis suits and Ghostkeel and their weapons, is it likely we'll see battlesuit armies be a thing for Tau again? Always loved the Tau battlesuits aesthetic and it would be great to see them be at least somewhat good.

If you mean infantry free lists, definitely not competitively, to many unit's rely on strategums which need CP .CP=infantry, additionally markerlights, which a assumed to always be available come in their most reliable forms o infantry charictors, which may actually become a problem if snipers keep getting cheaper as loosing marksmen etc is rather crippling for tau firepower.

**Mr. Funktastic**

Ice_can wrote:
Mr. Funktastic wrote:
Looking at all the reductions across the board for less used battlesuits like the Crisis suits and Ghostkeel and their weapons, is it likely we'll see battlesuit armies be a thing for Tau again? Always loved the Tau battlesuits aesthetic and it would be great to see them be at least somewhat good.
If you mean infantry free lists, definitely not competitively, to many unit's rely on strategums which need CP .CP=infantry, additionally markerlights, which a assumed to always be available come in their most reliable forms o infantry charictors, which may actually become a problem if snipers keep getting cheaper as loosing marksmen etc is rather crippling for tau firepower.

I was thinking Battlesuit centric armies with minimal infantry investment (A fireblade or 2, 3 strike squads for a battalion, a firesight marksman and a squad of Pathfinders for marker lights) and the rest battlesuits to do all the heavy lifting.

**Maxwell00**

Ice_can wrote:
...which may actually become a problem if snipers keep getting cheaper as loosing marksmen etc is rather crippling for tau firepower.

You mean like the new primaris formation?

**Ice_can**

Maxwell00 wrote:
Ice_can wrote:
...which may actually become a problem if snipers keep getting cheaper as loosing marksmen etc is rather crippling for tau firepower.

You mean like the new primaris formation?

to be fair that does take something mental like 3CP for 1 turn with 1 unit of stalker boltrifles, I'm not worried about them, I'd be more worried about scouts now sporting 2ppm sniper rifles as thats 13ppm.or the same as a tac marine.

**Rogerio134134**

Does anyone field devilfish?? Really fancy having a couple in my list.

**John Prins**

Rogerio134134 wrote:
Does anyone field devilfish?? Really fancy having a couple in my list.

As long as you have something to move with them, by all means. They're a good transport but a mediocre tank (12 18" S5 shots in most cases - they're not bringing the pain to anything). You can do clever stuff with them if you use a lot of terrain, as they can take Smart Missile Systems, but they're no Assault Cannon Razorback or Wave Serpent.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Mr. Funktastic wrote:
Looking at all the reductions across the board for less used battlesuits like the Crisis suits and Ghostkeel and their weapons, is it likely we'll see battlesuit armies be a thing for Tau again? Always loved the Tau battlesuits aesthetic and it would be great to see them be at least somewhat good.

I think Crisis Suits can replace Fire Warriors for weight of fire (triple Burst Cannon Crisis), but you'll still need infantry for CP. But Battalions aren't hard to fill for Tau (Obligatory Commander, Fireblade, 3x5 Fire Warriors).

**Rogerio134134**

My thinking was to have a squad is breachers inside a fish, at least they would stay alive long enough to unleash a salvo and then could use the fish for blocking enemy units and contesting objectives

**Traceoftoxin**

Tournament saturday, bringing my usual tournament list. Will try to get 3 batreps in for it. CA is not being used yet, but after the tourney I'm expecting to make some minor changes.

Tau Brigade
Darkstrider
Fireblade - Warlord, TUD, Puretide
Commander - 4 CIB, JSJ relic

5x10 Strikes
1x10 breachers

2x4 Shield Drones
1x5 Pathfinders - 3 Ion rifles

3x3 Stealth suits - 9 Velocity trackers

2x1 Broadside - HRR, SMS, Target lock
1x3 Sniper drones

Sa'cea battalion
Ethereal
Fireblade

3x5 Strike teams - Markerlight on sgt

3x1 Firesight marksmen

Farsight patrol
Coldstar commander - 2 fusion blasters, fusion blades

1x10 kroot

After CA, expecting to swap the sniper drones to a broadside then... who knows what else.

**John Prins**

Rogerio134134 wrote:
My thinking was to have a squad is breachers inside a fish, at least they would stay alive long enough to unleash a salvo and then could use the fish for blocking enemy units and contesting objectives

It's valid, though I'd include Darkstrider or a Fireblade to buff them.

**ZergSmasher**

John Prins wrote:
Rogerio134134 wrote:
My thinking was to have a squad is breachers inside a fish, at least they would stay alive long enough to unleash a salvo and then could use the fish for blocking enemy units and contesting objectives

It's valid, though I'd include Darkstrider or a Fireblade to buff them.

Darkstrider is good with them, but I don't think a Fireblade does anything for them. His ability specifically calls out Pulse Rifles and Pulse Carbines, not Pulse Blasters. It's a stupid thing, really, as it would actually make Breachers more viable.

The biggest problem with a blob of Breachers is that they will get one decent salvo at most before they are wiped off the map, and they'll only get that if the Devilfish survives long enough to get them there. I've tried them out before (10 Breachers + Darkstrider in a fish), and they didn't perform well enough to be worth it to me. I'd rather just take more Strike Teams and call it a day. Now, if Pulse Blasters went up to 2 damage, or D3, when on the short range profile, they'd be very good then. Also, perhaps in Vior'la Sept where they can potentially shoot twice they might be good, but in a highly competitive environment you want to be T'au or possibly Bor'kan sept if possible.

**John Prins**

ZergSmasher wrote:

Darkstrider is good with them, but I don't think a Fireblade does anything for them. His ability specifically calls out Pulse Rifles and Pulse Carbines, not Pulse Blasters. It's a stupid thing, really, as it would actually make Breachers more viable.

Ah, my bad. Maybe if they took Pulse Pistols too for some CC counterpunch (+Tau Sept Overwatch).

I think the thing with Breachers is to be very selective - you can't drive up in front of 40 guardsmen, but you can get out and shoot something far more valuable than yourself with S6 AP-2.

**Blood Hawk**

What are peoples first impressions on the eight from chapter approved? I would like them a lot more if they didn't cost command pts. If anything they look like they may be fun to run in some casual games at the local store.