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Looking at running a vanilla marine army. Right now on my ten man tac squads im running a meltagun and a ML, was wondering if sneaking in a power fist is really worth the 25 points?
Any help would be appreciated.

Well, they're great for popping armour of the light and medium variety, and act as a great deterrent and eliminator of the big bads that would otherwise devestate your unit in close combat. If you can afford them, take them. They're not integral to marines, being a shooty army, but you'll be thanking yourself when the enemy gets into assault.

They're pretty good for their price, and instant death on most independent characters.

It is a S-8 Attack vs a T-4 vs MEQs Characters and kills on a 2+ vs most MCs

It largely depends on your list. I have used power fists and power weapons on squad sargents in the past, but have since gotten away from using them. I don't want my tacticals in combat much anyways. The points went to waste more often than not. I'd rather skip the gear on a couple squads and get an extra landspeeder

A power fist is Dreadnought insurance.
My Tactical squads are usually not equipped with power fist/weapon,
since there are power fists elsewhere (Dreads, Termies).

I never fear a power fist, I fear the assault.

I take mine as insurance, though melta bombs are probably a better buy...

Look too cool to go without though.

All of my sergeants take power fists. Power weapons are too unreliable to get wounds in, and given how melee-happy 5th ed is, power fists are a must. The insurance these give you from vehicles, walkers, Nobz, Warriors, and just about anything else.

it really depends on the purpose of the squad, in my book.

I give squads that are hunting heavy infantry (plasma squads) power fists, so when the infantry they are rapid firing on charges back, they can put them down.

if I have a squad thats going for vehicles, I see little point to give them a fist, because melta guns + melta bomb will likely work as well, and be cheaper. sure, melta bombs only give 1 attack, while a fist gives 3, but depending on the armor of the target, the odds of getting a penetration aren't all that different sometimes.

if a dreadnought attacks, just use combat tactics to get out of there. not like you have to stay in combat as a marine player unless your winning or tying.

Probably wouldn't if I were you.
It's quite a few points on the off-chance they need to attack a vehicle with better rear armor than 11 or a walker.
Prefer meltabombs meself.

power fists all the way. nothing like crunching ic's and having a back up plan against mcs and vehicles. Also lets you stand a chance at beating walkers, you get 1 attack per round with melta bombs, you get 2 attacks with your weapon skill with a pfist.

Never leave the base without them. My troops do not always have the luxury of choosing when and with whom they get into melee with so a PF gives some insurance. Vehicles, Monsters or heavy infantry, a PF gives a chance to take some of them with me to Valhalla .

In a 1500 - 2000 point vanilla army I wouls typically take 3 tac squads I would only ever give a PF to one possibly 2 Sgts as if all three of my rac squads are in cc I have done something wrong.

I would say you should drop the Missile Launcher and take the Power Fist. Even though the ML is free, the fact that you can't move and shoot it would probably lead to two uses for your squad.

1: Your squad hangs back, providing fire support with the Missile Launcher. Melta and Power Fist become unecessasy.

2: You charge forward into the enemy troops, getting the most out of your Melta at short range and Power Fist in CC. Because of this the ML becomes unecessary due to constant movement.

IMO, take the fist and drop the ML.

Valk

Valkyrie wrote:I would say you should drop the Missile Launcher and take the Power Fist. Even though the ML is free, the fact that you can't move and shoot it would probably lead to two uses for your squad.

1: Your squad hangs back, providing fire support with the Missile Launcher. Melta and Power Fist become unecessasy.

2: You charge forward into the enemy troops, getting the most out of your Melta at short range and Power Fist in CC. Because of this the ML becomes unecessary due to constant movement.

IMO, take the fist and drop the ML.

Valk

Huzzah ignorance!

Combat squads do wonders...?

Melta bombs just don't cut it against walkers, and fists don't cut it against land raiders...

Inquisitor_Syphonious wrote:

Valkyrie wrote:I would say you should drop the Missile Launcher and take the Power Fist. Even though the ML is free, the fact that you can't move and shoot it would probably lead to two uses for your squad.

1: Your squad hangs back, providing fire support with the Missile Launcher. Melta and Power Fist become unecessasy.

2: You charge forward into the enemy troops, getting the most out of your Melta at short range and Power Fist in CC. Because of this the ML becomes unecessary due to constant movement.

IMO, take the fist and drop the ML.

Valk

Huzzah ignorance!

Combat squads do wonders...?

Melta bombs just don't cut it against walkers, and fists don't cut it against land raiders...

Who said anything about Walkers and Raiders? I'm talking about CC in general.

I give my powerfists to all my Vanguards. I have entire squad of powerfists. Boy they are great agianst vechiles.
Anyway I also give them to Tacitcal squads if they are needed. Powerweapons for plasma squads. Powerfists for up close and personal stuff.

Valkyrie wrote:

Inquisitor_Syphonious wrote:

Valkyrie wrote:I would say you should drop the Missile Launcher and take the Power Fist. Even though the ML is free, the fact that you can't move and shoot it would probably lead to two uses for your squad.

1: Your squad hangs back, providing fire support with the Missile Launcher. Melta and Power Fist become unecessasy.

2: You charge forward into the enemy troops, getting the most out of your Melta at short range and Power Fist in CC. Because of this the ML becomes unecessary due to constant movement.

IMO, take the fist and drop the ML.

Valk

Huzzah ignorance!

Combat squads do wonders...?

Melta bombs just don't cut it against walkers, and fists don't cut it against land raiders...

Who said anything about Walkers and Raiders? I'm talking about CC in general.

Ok, your "dropping the ML" advice is still rubbish.

You never did, do I need to put in a line to break thoughts; like this?:

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I like imperial fists!

it seems like sound advice, why have a missile launcher in a squad if its charging up with a meltagun and pfist? As for combat squading a 5 man marine squad will get thrashed if its charging up and doing etc w/ its pfist.

As for the op: i field my tactical squad as 10 man w/ plasma gun, missile launcher and power fist. I put them in a rhino and tell the truth rarely end up using the pfist. Everytime i had to use it it it has saved my squad or at least put the hurt on the enemy

The bolter is better if you're going to be doing a lot of moving and shooting. The ML is better if you're going to stand in one place and shoot. Neither one matters if you're going to assault-- you don't lose your BP when you purchase an ML.

Melissia wrote:The bolter is better if you're going to be doing a lot of moving and shooting. The ML is better if you're going to stand in one place and shoot. Neither one matters if you're going to assault-- you don't lose your BP when you purchase an ML.

Dropping the free ML is always a bad choice. On the move you gain only 1 shot since you have the BP anyways. The option for shooting the ML is worth the couple shots you might miss per game from the rapid firing.

Joetaco wrote:it seems like sound advice, why have a missile launcher in a squad if its charging up with a meltagun and pfist? As for combat squading a 5 man marine squad will get thrashed if its charging up and doing etc w/ its pfist.

As for the op: i field my tactical squad as 10 man w/ plasma gun, missile launcher and power fist. I put them in a rhino and tell the truth rarely end up using the pfist. Everytime i had to use it it it has saved my squad or at least put the hurt on the enemy

You make it sound so simple...

I run the same list with few modifications, the only modifications being on tanks...

I have missle launchers, just in case I need to use them.

5 marines will be killed by what now? Sure if they are foot-slogging, though they were already a goner.

What would you rather deal with? Five squads in tanks, and five squads out of tanks, with alot more dakka, or five squads in tanks with less shooting, and more durability.

Multiple small units provide target saturation, as well as less chance to die at once.

One deathstar can reasonably smash through three of those units, though they're not going to care if you have five or ten marines.

if your giving your squad a Melta gun then the PF is worth having. you can assault the tank you were shooting if the melta flubbed. melta bombs are better if the tank was sationary, but if the tank moved the 3 attacks of the sergeant will give you a better chance to kill the tank. MBs are cheap, so slap one on if you have 5 pts leftover.


Squads that have longer ranged weapons don't need the fist. squads with flamers should take a PW if they take anything at all.

also you want a Combi-weapon of the same type your combat squad is carrying on all your sergeants. that way you have an extra shot for when its needed. and its pretty cheap to do.

Dracos wrote:

Melissia wrote:The bolter is better if you're going to be doing a lot of moving and shooting. The ML is better if you're going to stand in one place and shoot. Neither one matters if you're going to assault-- you don't lose your BP when you purchase an ML.

Dropping the free ML is always a bad choice. On the move you gain only 1 shot since you have the BP anyways. The option for shooting the ML is worth the couple shots you might miss per game from the rapid firing.

Mn, I stand corrected. I forgot the ML basically has the same stats as a bolter anyway on the frag round, so it can cause just as many wounds anyway, but at a longer range and with the ability to knock out light vehicles and wound monstrous creatures easily, too.

I always take a power fist in my tactical & assault squads. They can turn the tide of battle. They aren't cheap but they are very effective.

G

Grey Templar wrote:if your giving your squad a Melta gun then the PF is worth having. you can assault the tank you were shooting if the melta flubbed. melta bombs are better if the tank was sationary, but if the tank moved the 3 attacks of the sergeant will give you a better chance to kill the tank. MBs are cheap, so slap one on if you have 5 pts leftover.


Squads that have longer ranged weapons don't need the fist. squads with flamers should take a PW if they take anything at all.

also you want a Combi-weapon of the same type your combat squad is carrying on all your sergeants. that way you have an extra shot for when its needed. and its pretty cheap to do.

Combi-weapons...

Flamers? Yes.

Plasmas? Maybe...

Melta? Hell no!

Too many points for the melta, O.K. for the plasma gun, flamer squads go nice with the combi, since flamers usually only get one shot anyway.

Hell,who has shooty marines?I made mine close combat marines FTW!

Heh. That's certainly a viable way to do it. But just remember you do need a squad or two to hang back on a home objective on objectives games. If you're doing all KP games, assault based marine armies are indeed pretty good though.

it really depends on the purpose of the squad, in my book.

I give squads that are hunting heavy infantry (plasma squads) power fists, so when the infantry they are rapid firing on charges back, they can put them down.

if I have a squad thats going for vehicles, I see little point to give them a fist, because melta guns + melta bomb will likely work as well, and be cheaper. sure, melta bombs only give 1 attack, while a fist gives 3, but depending on the armor of the target, the odds of getting a penetration aren't all that different sometimes.

if a dreadnought attacks, just use combat tactics to get out of there. not like you have to stay in combat as a marine player unless your winning or tying.

He, odds of penetration. Er, I mean, yes I agree with your tactics.

Curse you immature humor.