Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Grambo wrote:Hell,who has shooty marines?I made mine close combat marines FTW!

C:SM are better as a short-range shooty army rather than in melee (except for TH&SS terminators).

Eh, they aren't quite as good at short-ranged shooty as Sisters are. But they're MUCH better at assaulting.

The powerfist may or may not be worth it, depending on how you play your list and how it matches up with other armies in your area. If you find you can keep your tactical troops away from melee, and just plonk them onto objectives while shooting then it's 25 poitns you can spend elsewhere. On the other hand, not everyone finds their lists working that neatly, in which case giving your tactical squads one more option sleeve can be a match winner. The powerfist lets it survive assault from walkers, MCs and middle-tier infantry assault units, and that can be potentially game winning.

It's something that each player needs to work out for themselves, in actual play.

I've always taken the fists on all sergeants (except termi's) since my army was decimated back in 4th and all that remained was the sgt's from 3 tac squads and 1 dev squad, who contiued on regardless a carnifex each and holding a single objective (I love combat shields and 4 attacks on the charge, was a bit miffed when 5th changed that though)

I don't like Powerfists on anything that isn't planning on getting the charge. Tactical Squads are NOT good at close combat, so if you're charging an enemy squad you already expect to win; the Powerfist is rarely the deciding factor. On the other side, Tactical Squads are not push overs, so whatever is engaging them is very good at their job (Nobs, Berserkers, Terminators, Banshees); in that situation maybe getting 1 kill back won't make the difference.

"Powerfists scare away Walkers and Big Bads!" Hah. Hah hah. Hahaha. So mean Mister Dreadnought comes crashing into your squad. He eats 3 guys, and you swing back. Your chance of causing atleast an immobilized is .25. He'll usually have nom nom'ed the whole squad before you hurt him. Same thing with MCs, except you don't have that .10 chance of killing them. You pull wounds off one at a time (and it will only be one at a time, even less if they have an invulnerable save) while he kills Marines by the fist full.

As for instant deathing ICs: you usually won't. Any respectable IC will be running around with a 4+ invulnerable, or be too killy for it to matter (Kharn). Even my Chaos Sorcerer doesn't mind your Powerfist. You have a .4 chance of killing him. Those aren't terrible odds, but you probably won't get it on the first turn and there isn't going to be a second turn. As you're swinging last, and the squad that's engaging you is good at their job, you might not even get to swing anyway.

No, I find that Powerfists are not worth their points for Tacticals, Plague Marines, Guardsmen, Jews, or Gentiles. On Khorne Berserkers, sure; the 4 attacks on the Skull Champion makes it reliable. Nobs, sure! Warbosses, Grey Hunters, Blood Claws, Terminators, all because they have the stats and rules to bring out the best in the weapon: more attacks to make it reliable, or more durability to make sure it gets to swing. Only then is it worth the 25 points.

Above good point well made. My mileage differs but I agree with the point. PF on my GH squad is much, much more effective than on a vanilla tac Sgt.

I'm in full agreement with DarkHound on powerfists and general close combat capability of Tactical Squads. Hell, I'm even not a huge fan of power fists in Grey Hunter squads. I'm rarely planning on charging with them unless the target squad is a pushover. Rhinos rarely allow charges anyway, they are as lethal receiving assaults as they are delivering them, and I like to even the odds first with some rapid fire love. The totem and Wulfen tend to be enough for that occasional combat phase.

Plus there's the issue of the Grey Hunter with PF only having 1 attack, forcing you to buy a Wolf Guard, which while great for special weapon and leadership, deprives you of the 10th Hunter and his free special weapon.

give them a power weapon!

The power fist is almost always invariably a better choice than a power weapon when arming a sergeant. A case can be made for BT & BA due to the S5 but the power fist is still the best bet versus MCs & walkers.

G

Power fists are good choices, but as a player gains expierence he will begin to realise that he can spend those pts elsewhere.

and so he begins to use PWs instead of PFs.

Sometimes he may leave the Sergeant naked.

and then he begins using the PF in conjunction with Melta guns as dedicated Tankhunters. then he gives the sergeant a combi-melta soon afterwards.

PWs eventually get put with Flamers as they are both likely ending up in CC.


and so the maturing of a player is witnessed.

GT is 100% spot-on.

Powerfists are a good versatile choice - this makes them the defacto choice if you're not entirely sure what the squad will be doing.

As your list get's tighter, they are no longer always the best choice.