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Ok, so I'm getting really bored of my current ork army, and there isn't a tournament next weekend, so in my next game, I'm going to use a warphead. I'm expecting a lot of randomness and carnage (on both sides) from this guy, and hopefully he will make the standard "Roll up, jump out, punch punch punch" that most of my games turn into a little more interesting, however, I still want him to help out my army, even if I don't win, I don't want to say "You did nothin' warp'ead, git out!"

I have three questions

1. What kind of unit should I put him with? (I am thinking shoota boyz but I could be wrong...also how does 'ere we go work? Do you teleport right before the shooting phase, or does teleporting count as that unit's 'shot' that turn?)

2. Should he walk or ride?

3. What powers should I be looking to use depending on where I am? (lets say I'm close to an enemy, most likely in assault range, the best powers would seem to be WAAAGH and Warpath, Frazzle may be useful, ZZap would be kind of a waste, and 'ere we go would be downright useless unless it was a unit I was trying to get away from.)

I've heard Shoota Boyz and Tankbustaz are the best travelling companions. Flash Gitz could also provide some use.

Put him with a unit of Flash Gits. Seriously! Giving them a painboy helps with the 'Eadbang wounds, and they can use 'Ere We Go to good effect since their shooting is decent (give them some shooting upgrades). They're a small, elite unit (easier to deepstrike than a unit of 30 shootas) with decent armour and Feel No Pain, so they can keep the warphead alive long enough to get some decent results.

Whether they ride is up to you. I wouldn't put them in anything more than a trukk, though, since 'Ere We Go was FAQ'd to leave the transport behind. I suppose you could start them off in a battlewagon and if they port out, use it to transport something else.

May I point out there's no choosing powers? You roll a die, and stuff happens. There's no real "looking what to use when."

I suggest using shoota boys only, preferably in a BW.

As Pvt. Jet noted, Warpheads don't have many tactics, they just have their dice. You can try to plan for the worst, but just having the Warphead for absolute randomness is probably their best use. Also, take Old Zoggie, he is more better.

I'll vouch for Old Zogwort being an absolute pain. The reroll on the weird boy table makes him pretty reliable (regarding not killing himself and a half dozen boys, not for getting a specific power). Almost everything he does is actually pretty good though.

My buddy runs him in a unit of 30 'ard boyz. It does horrible, horrible things to whatever it connects with.

Not to mention the fun things that can happen to ICs when running him. Poor Yarrick didnt see it coming.

I play tested wierd boyz a lot. Safe to say their really biggest draw back is the fact they HAVE to use a power. Which means if you don't get the right power you can sometimes screw yourself.

Anyway here is my dissection on my blog about them.

http://bloodofkittens.com/2010/01/05/40k-testdrive-wierdboyz/

kadeton wrote:Put him with a unit of Flash Gits.

So I'm going to put my worst HQ with my most over costed ineffective unit?
In fact I'm going to put them with a guy that will either give my 'shooting unit' +1 Attacks or put them into assault or put a STR 6 AP 3 PINNING blast marker on my unit? Or or!! (I'm becoming really excited now) I can get a free Waaagh and run alot with my shooting unit.....

In the word of Guinness...
Brilliant!

ChrisCP wrote:
So I'm going to put my worst HQ with my most over costed ineffective unit?
In fact I'm going to put them with a guy that will either give my 'shooting unit' +1 Attacks or put them into assault or put a STR 6 AP 3 PINNING blast marker on my unit? Or or!! (I'm becoming really excited now) I can get a free Waaagh and run alot with my shooting unit.....

Or you could put him with a unit of 'ard boys! That way, when he rolls the longest range melta weapon in the game, your big hitting unit can stand still instead of running towards the enemy! Or, they can teleport, then all get lost in the warp because there's nowhere you can place a unit of 30 boys without hitting terrain. Or even better, they could survive and then the whole unit can get wiped out by a single large blast template, since they are just standing around, bunched up in the open and can't assault!

Or wait, maybe I'll put him with some flash gits instead, so that his shooting powers are useful, his teleport power is useful, his head explosions won't cause a single casualty, and the whole army can still benefit from his free Waaagh! Yeah, actually, that sounds like a better idea. Maybe you should try it sometime, instead of being a douche on the internet. If you're taking a weirdboy, you've already committed to playing the randomness game with a sub-optimal list, so you might as well design it so that the unit supports the weirdboy and vice versa.

Hey mate getting snarky doen't change the fact that your suggestion is terrible - if I HAD to use weirdboyz I wouldn't put them with the most cost ineffective unit in the whole codex.
If I had to run them it would be like this.

2500 of Warphead
[HQ]
Warphead - 85
Warphead - 85

[Elite]
10x Kommandos/Snikt/2 Burna - 220

5x Nobz/CB/Pain, PK, BC, BP, Waagh – 185
Battlewagon/Deffrolla/AP/Gr/3BS - 140

5x Nobz /CB/Pain, PK, BC, BP, Waagh - 185
Battlewagon/Deffrolla/AP/Gr/3BS - 140

[Troop]
18x Gretchin/Runth - 64

11x Boys/Nob/PK - 141
Trukk
11x Boys/Nob/PK - 141
Trukk
12x Boys/Nob/PK - 147
Trukk
12x Boys/Nob/PK - 147
Trukk
12x Boys/Nob/PK - 147
Trukk

[Fast attack]
3x TLRL War Buggies - 105
3x TLRL War Buggies - 105
3x TLRL War Buggies - 105

[Heavy Support]
Battlewagon/Deffrolla/GR/2BS – 120
Battlewagon/Deffrolla/GR/2BS – 120
Battlewagon/Deffrolla/GR/2BS – 120


It’s about as point and shoot as they come too ^_^

The warphead with the flash gitz isn't actually that bad.

Try 4 or 5 gitz with Badrukk and 3 ammo runts to compensate for the crap BS and you have a great unit for dealing with 2+ armor. 4 of the 6 Weirboyz powers work well with the Gitz (exploding heads is bad full stop and Waagh doesn't really benefit the Gitz though it doesn't hurt either) which is better than any other unit you can stick with him.

Tankbustaz may also be good depending on what the glory hog rule forces you to do

sn0zcumb3r wrote:The warphead with the flash gitz isn't actually that bad.

Try 4 or 5 gitz with Badrukk and 3 ammo runts to compensate for the crap BS and you have a great unit for dealing with 2+ armor. 4 of the 6 Weirboyz powers work well with the Gitz (exploding heads is bad full stop and Waagh doesn't really benefit the Gitz though it doesn't hurt either) which is better than any other unit you can stick with him.

Tankbustaz may also be good depending on what the glory hog rule forces you to do

So 325 points on a unit with a 24 inch gun, that's Assault 1, with BS2 (hitting on 5's in case people have forgotten what that means), and 15 points for three re-rolls for the game (Badruk is only assault 3 with 3 rerolls for the game too)??? That will take away either Battle Wagons or Kans?

That's going to deepstrike around, cause a waaaagh, give +1a to a shooting unit or hurt itself?

I just pickled up my wierdboy yesterday, and this thread will come in very useful!

Actually, what people seem to forget is that Flash Gitz still have nob stats and 'eavy armour (and possibly FNP). Which means that on the charge you are dishing out 4 S5 per model at I4 (I believe) and have a better than 50/50 chance of surviving most wounds (75% chance of saving any non-rending, non- instant kill, non-power weapon attacks). Which isn't too shabby for a "shooting unit". They also have assault guns, which anyone who bothers to take would upgrade atleast with S6 and 2 shots. They can put out alot of hurt in combat, and on the way in if you are lucky.

I run mine with my tankbustas quite a bit to good effect. A number of his powers are complimentary to the tankbusta's mission, and a lucky 'ere we go result can allow you to move the tankbustas to a part of the table where there "glory hounds" rule ceases to be a problem. Also the tankbustas are not a huge mob (15 at full strength) so the chances for a mishap are smaller.

ChrisCP you have missed the point of the thread completely.. Take a look at the OP questions. It's not about if flash gitz are any good it's about the warphead and what squads he works well with.

Your list while a good list is effectively a mechanized ork list where you have introduced two warpheads instead of an Big Mek with a KFF (making the list weaker as you already know)

I believe the OP is looking for a Warphead themed army and this is what I'm working off..
Now for the flash gitz the setup I offered (not including the warphead) gets 3,15 wounds vs MEQ and 1.85 wounds vs TEQ .. Not bad if you get a shooty result on the warphead to back them up

I have used him alot and I find shoota boys work best.

The thing you have to remeber is he is random. So you cant build a plan around him or anything like that. Take your weridboy and his unit of shoota boys and set him aside THEN build the rest of your army.

He is going to be a wild card. Be sure to always take his warphead upgrade.

Now to use him always try and use his first roll. Whatever it is. Once you roll his power look and see if it can do anything. Can you hit a tank with his melta power? can you hit some infantry with his shorter ranged power? Are you able to charge with his charging power? Will the extra fleet help you out right now? Can I deepstrike into a good spot? If the answer is no then re roll his power.

Never try to hope to get a certain power on a certain turn. If the power you get you can use. Use it cause odds are your 2nd roll will be totally useless. Happens all the time since thats just how dice work haha.

i like warheads....they are a ton of fun and often i find they have thier own secret mission and go about it in thier own way. as mentioned dont build your list around him. but add him in as a wild card asset to mix things up.

personally i load him in with a group of boys roughly 15-20 in size and give them big shootas and half normal shootas. the other half kitted for close, with the standard nob/pk/bp. this allows the squad to advance on foot and provide some fire support, and if teleported, can put them in a nice potential charge arc, OR as an objective grab. the mixed loadout allows them to function decent in both roles, as shoota boys arent slouches in CC, and really, shooting isint that big of a concern, if i hit great, hurt awsome...kill OMG!! so with above example, id probally go 20 boys, grab 2 big shootas, 8 shootas, upgrade your nob acordingly....if the poitns are there, make em 'ard boys, attach warphead and have at er.

as for the results... teleport can be used to get onto an exposed flank, or objective, the melta zap will just shoot down tanks, fleet can benefit the rest of the army, and if you need it, can fleet onto objective or furthar into cover. frazzle...same as tank shot...just beefs the range attacks, and the +1 attack is good if your in charge range. otherwise, i reroll the headbanger, and maybe +1 attack if i dont have a use for it, or if i realy want to hope for something else.

that said ive had games were the warphead goes on a tank nuking spree, and others were all he does is teleport around the table. one game was rather amusing as he kept headbanging himself and his unit despite rerolls and stern instruction to do otherwise. its all part of the random fun of the ork though..

i play 2 warpheads 3x 15 Kommandos/2 Burna/1 nob power klaw just trying for WAAAGH every turn and if i don't get it i use the army WAAAGH i have found orks having fleet all the time to just be and put both warpheads in one 20-30 shoota boys unit so they have LD 10 and keep them at the back of the army.

DarthSpader wrote:i like warheads....they are a ton of fun and often i find they have thier own secret mission and go about it in thier own way. as mentioned dont build your list around him. but add him in as a wild card asset to mix things up.

personally i load him in with a group of boys roughly 15-20 in size and give them big shootas and half normal shootas. the other half kitted for close, with the standard nob/pk/bp. this allows the squad to advance on foot and provide some fire support, and if teleported, can put them in a nice potential charge arc, OR as an objective grab. the mixed loadout allows them to function decent in both roles, as shoota boys arent slouches in CC, and really, shooting isint that big of a concern, if i hit great, hurt awsome...kill OMG!! so with above example, id probally go 20 boys, grab 2 big shootas, 8 shootas, upgrade your nob acordingly....if the poitns are there, make em 'ard boys, attach warphead and have at er.

as for the results... teleport can be used to get onto an exposed flank, or objective, the melta zap will just shoot down tanks, fleet can benefit the rest of the army, and if you need it, can fleet onto objective or furthar into cover. frazzle...same as tank shot...just beefs the range attacks, and the +1 attack is good if your in charge range. otherwise, i reroll the headbanger, and maybe +1 attack if i dont have a use for it, or if i realy want to hope for something else.

that said ive had games were the warphead goes on a tank nuking spree, and others were all he does is teleport around the table. one game was rather amusing as he kept headbanging himself and his unit despite rerolls and stern instruction to do otherwise. its all part of the random fun of the ork though..

Your aware a squad of boys has to be either ALL shootas or All sluggas + whatever special weapons, you can not have a mix. other than that replace the big shootas with rokkets and thats pretty much what I do, I can usually find a use for whatever power I roll. ps. always take warphead and zoggy can be real fun.

sn0zcumb3r wrote:ChrisCP you have missed the point of the thread completely.. Take a look at the OP questions. It's not about if flash gitz are any good it's about the warphead and what squads he works well with.

Your list while a good list is effectively a mechanized ork list where you have introduced two warpheads instead of an Big Mek with a KFF (making the list weaker as you already know)

I believe the OP is looking for a Warphead themed army and this is what I'm working off..
Now for the flash gitz the setup I offered (not including the warphead) gets 3,15 wounds vs MEQ and 1.85 wounds vs TEQ .. Not bad if you get a shooty result on the warphead to back them up

What I'm saying is that if you do put your warphead with Gitz you are expecting to have a negetive effect for the unit on 2/3rds of all dice rolls - that's already pretty dodgy if you ask me. The next problem with putting him with Gitz is that until on takes a unit of ten one has LD7 - which really in many ways could be a benifit as one can expect to fail alot of psycik tests, avoiding that nasty 2/3rds >_<
But if we put him with a unit of nobz it's a) Cheaper b) Gives a DT Battle Wagon option c) Doesn't take a HS slot d) Powers 2,3,4,5 and possibly 6 are all GOOD for that squad.

The real problem with a unit of gits is the expected 35PPM cost (Six Boys! Six!) for (in my eyes) no wound allocation, no power weapons, no WS5. So placing a warphead with the overly expensive squad is adding 'fun' to that unit :( While it costs you in additon to the points a HS and a DT~!

dang...i didnt even see that. i always thought it was "any number of boyz can..."

live and learn i guess. so i stand corrected and sorry for the wrong advise.


still, running with a group of shoota boys aint all bad, since again, shoota boys can do decent in cc. they just loose 1 attack for not duel weilding.

My opponent ran one this week and he almost won the game I was trying to 'sew up' by deepstriking in turn 5. 4 more inches and he would have been able to pull me off his objective. He was running Zogwort, and reeeealy wanted to 'squigify' my Big Mek, but I kept him safe in a wagon!

I always seem to get my telly-port too early, when the game board is crowded, and get shot to pieces when I land. These guys are fun.

I am working on a mob of 20 MadBoys with shootas to follow my dude around. I'd be afraid to run him with FlashGits since he doesn't have a bosspole. Wish he made them fearless!

Lost Boyz wrote:My opponent ran one this week and he almost won the game I was trying to 'sew up' by deepstriking in turn 5. 4 more inches and he would have been able to pull me off his objective. He was running Zogwort, and reeeealy wanted to 'squigify' my Big Mek, but I kept him safe in a wagon!

I always seem to get my telly-port too early, when the game board is crowded, and get shot to pieces when I land. These guys are fun.

I am working on a mob of 20 MadBoys with shootas to follow my dude around. I'd be afraid to run him with FlashGits since he doesn't have a bosspole. Wish he made them fearless!

How are you making these madboyz? You have piqued my interest as having some madboyz would be awesome!!

The old madboy models just had regular orks in weird poses - you could duplicate that with a bit of creative sawing and puttying!

I'm a fan of weirdboy + tankbustas. The only "bad" results are 'eadbang and extra attack (and even that's not horrible, since you're potentially forced to assault due to Glory Hogs anyhow).

I also like the following:

30 'ard Boyz (Shootas, 3 Rokkits, Nob with PK) + Zogwort + Grotsnik.

Grotsnik would normally cause this unit to get pulled all over the board. Zogwart can aim for 'ere We Go in order to put them back into the fray. Since you're playing Shootas and Rokkits, instead of Slugga/Choppa, even if you deep strike, you can still shooot.

Defensively, you've got 38 wounds at T4 or better, with 4+ save and FNP for a 3/4ths chance to ignore most wounds. That's a right pain to get rid of without large AP4 or better templates.

Offensively, you've got 2 PKs and a bunch of 2+ poisoned attacks which could be power weapons, on top of the other 29 'ard boyz and their attacks. The unit also can benefit from the +1A quite nicely. And if you roll a shooting attack, 3 Rokkits means that you have at least a semi-decent option for shooting at vehicles, and shooting at infantry is great.

It's expensive, but fun, and pretty much everyone I've played it against has admitted to not wanting to play against it again.

The downside is that beyond the expense, it tends to cripple the rest of your army. No Bosses to make your Nobs or Meganobz scoring. No Meks for KFF or SAGs. And lots of points, so you're limited on how many other toys you can take.

ChrisCP wrote:What I'm saying is that if you do put your warphead with Gitz you are expecting to have a negetive effect for the unit on 2/3rds of all dice rolls - that's already pretty dodgy if you ask me. The next problem with putting him with Gitz is that until on takes a unit of ten one has LD7 - which really in many ways could be a benifit as one can expect to fail alot of psycik tests, avoiding that nasty 2/3rds >_<
But if we put him with a unit of nobz it's a) Cheaper b) Gives a DT Battle Wagon option c) Doesn't take a HS slot d) Powers 2,3,4,5 and possibly 6 are all GOOD for that squad.

The real problem with a unit of gits is the expected 35PPM cost (Six Boys! Six!) for (in my eyes) no wound allocation, no power weapons, no WS5. So placing a warphead with the overly expensive squad is adding 'fun' to that unit :( While it costs you in additon to the points a HS and a DT~!

I'd love to know what goes on in your head. Let's break down the powers individually:

'Eadbanger - bad for Gitz, bad for Nobz.
Frazzle - good for Gitz, bad for Nobz (Gitz are shooting, Nobz are running).
Zzap - good for Gitz, bad for Nobz (see above).
Warpath - good for Gitz, better for Nobz (Gitz are just fine in assault, but Nobz are obviously better).
'Ere We Go - good for Gitz, bad for Nobz (Gitz deep strike and get a better firing position, Nobz deep strike and can't assault).
Waaagh - good for Gitz, good for Nobz (every unit gets the Waaagh regardless of who the Weirdboy is with, so no difference).

So that's 5/6 powers that are good for Gitz, and 2/6 powers that are good for Nobz. Gitz love Weirdboys, Nobz don't much care for them.

Next you talk about Leadership. Why is Ld 7 bad in a Gitz squad and not in a Nobz squad? The situation is exactly the same. Also, if you haven't read the rules, your Leadership improves at 8 models (to 8), not at 10. Plus, if you really want higher Leadership, Gitz have the option of Badrukk, who is Ld 9 and doesn't take up any extra slots. So again, the Gitz are better here.

Nobz are hardly cheaper than Gitz. Gitz are 35 points, as you say (assuming More Dakka and cybork bodies). Nobz are base 30 (with 'eavy armour and cybork bodies) but to get the advantages you list (power klaws, WS 5 and wound allocation) you are spending easily more than 35 points per model. A decent unit of each, say 8 models, runs to 310 points for Gitz and about 350 for Nobz (more if you take more than two klaws). How are Nobz cheaper again? Also, the lack of power weapons matters less when half the results on the Weirdboy powers table give him a power weapon anyway.

The only sensible things you said were that Nobz can get a Battlewagon and that they don't use a Heavy Support choice, which are both good points and should definitely be considered when building a list around a Weirdboy. However, I would never advise attaching your Weirdboy to a squad of Nobz, it just doesn't make any sense - a small unit of Shoota boyz is a better choice if you aren't taking any Gitz. Leave your Nobz in their Battlewagon, they'll do much better work in their usual headlong assault. Nobz simply have no synergy with a Weirdboy, whereas both Gitz and Weirdboys are vastly improved by being fielded together.

'Eadbanger - bad for Gitz, bad for Nobz.
Nuff said

Frazzle - good for Gitz, bad for Nobz (Gitz are shooting, Nobz are running).
Zzap - good for Gitz, bad for Nobz (see above).
For both of these powers, I assume one's buying the WH 'for' one would be paying 85 points for a 1/3 chance a turn…
As for rolling a Zzap, one would I assume, want to fire it at a vehicle… so the rest of your expensive unit is going to sit around not shooting at stuff. Oh and assault-with-a-shooting-unit-happy people have to assault that vehicle/it’s contents too.

Warpath - good for Gitz, better for Nobz (Gitz are just fine in assault, but Nobz are obviously better).
So you are going to take your best shooting unit and put them into CC? Right.
Even more so this means you’ve walked your shooting unit to with-in 6” of a squad to assault them….

'Ere We Go - good for Gitz, bad for Nobz (Gitz deep strike and get a better firing position, Nobz deep strike and can't assault).
Yep. Good for Gitz, not great for nobs, but not the end of the world – they can take fire when itemised everyone knows.

Waaagh - good for Gitz, good for Nobz (every unit gets the Waaagh regardless of who the Weirdboy is with, so no difference).
I don’t understand how you can say a free waaagh that you have very little control over is ‘good’ for the unit of gitz themselves?
For your whole army it’s 'all right' but I can’t see how as an ork player your going to find yourself in a position where launching one or two units into CC a turn ahead of the rest of your army is ‘good’ for 85 points (most of the cost of a BW really).
It’s good for your opponent - means that therir CC units that would hopefully not been on the front lines can counter-charge your units that are now stuck in combat…

So upon review, I feel Gitz like Frazz, Zzap and ‘Ere – But would argue that 85 points for these effects while trying to dodge the other 3 is not a good plan.
For Nobz, they like – Frazz, Zzap, Warpath and are not crippled by Ere and might actually use the Waaagh, unlike Gitz who really shold be shooting. That’s why I’d argue a WH is ‘better’ for nobz.

Why is Ld 7 bad in a Gitz squad and not in a Nobz squad? The situation is exactly the same.
Because I said so… no seriously now, it’s because Nobz can take a Boss Pole. That simple. BP=Good, No Bp=Bad.
Why did I say Ld 7 until 10 in the squad? Because if one’s being forced to take LD tests (from shooting… not losing combat with your shooty squad I hope) one must have take 25% casualties, 10 guys + Warphead means 3 down for Ld test, leaving 8 guys – Ld 8. Happy?

As for expenses. I gather your units of Gitz would run like this, 5x Gits, more dakka CB, Painboy – 205 points for 8 BS2 Str5 shots……
5xNobz, Painboy, CB, WB, BP, PK, BC – 205 points for 5 wounds until the firs model is removed, 4 Str 9 PW attacks, 4 Str 7, WS 5 and re-rollable Ld testing.

Or 10x Gits, MD, CB, PB – 360 points for 18 Str 5 BS2 shots… (That’s, like = not the same as mind you, 6 Str 5 attacks. We only need 3 naked nobs to achieve that many Str 5 hits on the charge)

9x Nobs, PB, CB, PK, PK/Ar, BC, BP, WB, S/S, BC/S/S, PK/S/S.
Now I have one less warm body – but remember 10 wounds until the first guys drops - 12 Str 9 PK attacks, 8 Str 7, 3 Flame templates, WS5, re-rollable Ld testing – for 375 points.

So yes, given how efficient Gitz are at their job (shooting @ BS2… remember?) The fact that for that same price one has no power fist (not weapon, it’s all about the double Str which a warphead doesn’t recive whit his spellz) lower WS same BS and no BP. Gitz are far more expensive than nobz.


S'that's where my head's at (still can't say that without seeing 'Lara Croft' in my minds eye) at the moment I'm pretty sure

First off, I want to thank you for making a calm, coherent and well-expressed post in response to mine, even though mine was unnecessarily rude. I feel like we're actually having a discussion rather an an argument now.

ChrisCP wrote:Frazzle - good for Gitz, bad for Nobz (Gitz are shooting, Nobz are running).
Zzap - good for Gitz, bad for Nobz (see above).
For both of these powers, I assume one's buying the WH 'for' one would be paying 85 points for a 1/3 chance a turn…

I'd prefer we didn't get into a discussion on whether or not the Weirdboy is 'worth' the points you pay for him. The point is to get the best possible use out of him when taken, not whether he's a good choice.

As for rolling a Zzap, one would I assume, want to fire it at a vehicle… so the rest of your expensive unit is going to sit around not shooting at stuff. Oh and assault-with-a-shooting-unit-happy people have to assault that vehicle/it’s contents too.

Eh, it depends. If you make them Blastier, they're more than capable of laying down some fire on a transport. I guess my point is more that if you get a Zzap, the Gitz are going to be in a good firing position, whereas the Nobz are going to be in close range preparing to assault (and if they're not, they're running so you waste the power). A Zzap might be great if your Nobz just happen to be next to a Land Raider that they can assault the contents of, but I generally wouldn't send them against such hard targets, so it's situational at best. With the Gitz, you can just go with it and snipe the heaviest thing on the board. If you do that with the Nobz, they won't be able to get into assault.

Warpath - good for Gitz, better for Nobz (Gitz are just fine in assault, but Nobz are obviously better).
So you are going to take your best shooting unit and put them into CC? Right.
Even more so this means you’ve walked your shooting unit to with-in 6” of a squad to assault them…

Let's not kid ourselves, your best shooting unit is still the Lootas. The Gitz have short-range guns which are also assault weapons, and most people look at them and think they'll be soft in assault. If you make them a distraction (taking a flank, or deepstriking with 'Ere We Go, for example) the opponent will usually only send a small detachment at most to deal with them. Gitz are surprisingly good in assault, as long as you don't send them against combat specialists. The ability to soften up the opponent with heavy, often low-AP firepower is also handy when assaulting.

My main issue with the Weirdboy as an assault boost for the Nobz is that he'll instantly get killed, since he's an independent character with terrible armour. If he didn't die in the first assault every time, I'd be really surprised. This can hardly be thought of as using him to his full potential, especially since there's a good chance you won't even see a Warpath roll in a lot of games, meaning he's been killed without doing anything at all. I'd be doing everything I could to keep him out of combat, so putting him with a unit that is also trying to avoid combat (mostly) seems like a good idea.

'Ere We Go - good for Gitz, bad for Nobz (Gitz deep strike and get a better firing position, Nobz deep strike and can't assault).
Yep. Good for Gitz, not great for nobs, but not the end of the world – they can take fire when itemised everyone knows.

I tend to avoid using wound allocation cheese, mostly because I expect it to be changed in the next edition and I'm not super-competitive (you might be able to tell, given I'm arguing the merits of using both Weirdboys and Flash Gitz). In most cases, the best place for Nobz to be is where they already are, backed up by a bunch of other squads. Gitz benefit more from being in weird places, because they serve best as a tough ranged distraction rather than a punch-in-the-face assault unit.

Waaagh - good for Gitz, good for Nobz (every unit gets the Waaagh regardless of who the Weirdboy is with, so no difference).
I don’t understand how you can say a free waaagh that you have very little control over is ‘good’ for the unit of gitz themselves?
For your whole army it’s 'all right' but I can’t see how as an ork player your going to find yourself in a position where launching one or two units into CC a turn ahead of the rest of your army is ‘good’ for 85 points (most of the cost of a BW really).
It’s good for your opponent - means that therir CC units that would hopefully not been on the front lines can counter-charge your units that are now stuck in combat…

Eh, all I'm really saying is that the Waaagh behaves the same regardless of who the Weirdboy is with. Your Nobz can still use the free Fleet if the Weirdboy is with the Gitz. It's hardly a result I'd be banking on. Regardless of whether it's 'good' or 'bad', it's equal for both Gitz and Nobz, and I can usually find a good use for it... or if not, just ignore it and shrug.

So upon review, I feel Gitz like Frazz, Zzap and ‘Ere – But would argue that 85 points for these effects while trying to dodge the other 3 is not a good plan.
For Nobz, they like – Frazz, Zzap, Warpath and are not crippled by Ere and might actually use the Waaagh, unlike Gitz who really shold be shooting. That’s why I’d argue a WH is ‘better’ for nobz.

I still feel that the Nobz are at odds with the use of Frazzle and Zzap, simply because if they're shooting they're not running. Using it from the back of a Battlewagon wouldn't be bad, although I'd probably leave the Weirdboy in the wagon when the Nobz jumped out to assault. Weirdboys are just too fragile (in assault, where they can be picked out) to stick with an assault unit when they get stuck in. They'll happily stay with the Gitz for the whole game.

Why is Ld 7 bad in a Gitz squad and not in a Nobz squad? The situation is exactly the same.
Because I said so… no seriously now, it’s because Nobz can take a Boss Pole. That simple. BP=Good, No Bp=Bad.
Why did I say Ld 7 until 10 in the squad? Because if one’s being forced to take LD tests (from shooting… not losing combat with your shooty squad I hope) one must have take 25% casualties, 10 guys + Warphead means 3 down for Ld test, leaving 8 guys – Ld 8. Happy?

Heh. Leadership tests can be taken for plenty of other things, most notably the use of Weirdboy psychic powers.

But yeah, I guess there's a greater risk of the unit running away. That hasn't been a problem when I've played them (shooting usually doesn't cause enough casualties to bother them) but there's always Badrukk.

As for expenses. I gather your units of Gitz would run like this, 5x Gits, more dakka CB, Painboy – 205 points for 8 BS2 Str5 shots……
5xNobz, Painboy, CB, WB, BP, PK, BC – 205 points for 5 wounds until the firs model is removed, 4 Str 9 PW attacks, 4 Str 7, WS 5 and re-rollable Ld testing.

Something like that, yeah, although I generally take 8-10... losing shots on the Painboy hurts less the more of them you take, plus better Ld and so on.

One thing to note is that the Gitz have a Sv of 4+ and your Nobz have 6+. Gitz will shrug off bolter fire like rain. My pricing was based on giving the Nobz 'eavy armour to compensate.

Or 10x Gits, MD, CB, PB – 360 points for 18 Str 5 BS2 shots… (That’s, like = not the same as mind you, 6 Str 5 attacks. We only need 3 naked nobs to achieve that many Str 5 hits on the charge)

True, but then those Nobz will probably die. Also, your Nobz' S5 attacks allow armour saves, while the Gitz ignore Marine armour 50% of the time (conveniently, the Weirdboy's Frazzle is also AP3, making the unit excellent beakie hunters). Heck, the Gitz' shots ignore Feel No Pain a third of the time, which is becoming increasingly valuable.

9x Nobs, PB, CB, PK, PK/Ar, BC, BP, WB, S/S, BC/S/S, PK/S/S.
Now I have one less warm body – but remember 10 wounds until the first guys drops - 12 Str 9 PK attacks, 8 Str 7, 3 Flame templates, WS5, re-rollable Ld testing – for 375 points.

At this point you're just saying that Nobz are better value than Gitz. Duh! The issue is that your unit is pretty much exactly the same level of effectiveness whether there's a Weirdboy in it or not. What I'm trying to say is that combining a Weirdboy and Flash Gitz is helpful for both the Weirdboy and the Gitz, whereas putting the Weirdboy with Nobz makes him a useless extra lump that costs 85 points, just gets killed, and doesn't really help the Nobz at all.

Nobody needs to be told that Nobz are awesome, what we need to know is how to make the Weirdboy useful. I don't think Nobz achieve that, but I do know that he is useful in a unit of Gitz, and this has the added awesome effect of making Flash Gitz useful as well. So far it's the only way I've found to use them that makes any sense at all, and it's really nice to see units that most players ignore when list-building actually getting some use. This has the added bonus of confusing your enemies, since most of them will probably have never seen Gitz in action.

Combining all your random elements in one squad makes it very random, but Gitz can often survive long enough to make that randomness come out on the 'Wow' end of the scale. In contrast, adding randomness to an otherwise solid, reliable unit tends to range from 'Meh' to 'Oh crap'.

S'that's where my head's at (still can't say that without seeing 'Lara Croft' in my minds eye) at the moment I'm pretty sure

Cheers for being a good sport, and sorry I was tetchy. You're still wrong, though.