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Im one off many people who are fans of JRPG's or for those who dont know (Jap Roll Playing Games), we all know one of the most famour JRPG's would arguably be the Final Fantasy series, with its latest FFXIII release. The game introduced a few innovations to the series, a fast-paced combat mechanic, a new system determining which abilities are developed for the characters called "Crystarium", and a customizable "Paradigm" system to control which abilities are used by the characters. Final Fantasy XIII also includes elements from the previous games, such as summoned monsters, chocobos and airships. How good this game is, how long will the series last? As i see it JRPG's cant develop much further, theirgameplay will always be the same, all that can be done is upgrading the graffics and landscapes for each individual game.

Another game series that is very similar to Final Fantasy is the Kingdom hearts series, a series of action-adventure role-playing games developed and published by Square Enix. The series features an all-star voice cast, which includes many of the Disney characters' official voice actors and well-known actors such as Haley Joel Osment, David Gallagher, Jesse McCartney, and Hayden Panettiere. Characters from Square Enix's Final Fantasy series make appearances and interact with the player and the Disney characters. The series centers around the main character Sora's search for his friends and his encounters with Disney and Final Fantasy characters on their worlds. this as some would put it, side quest of Final Fantasy is a perfect example of how JRPG's dying, even though it is made by the same company its still a perfect exaple of my point.

How can JRPG's stay alive with nowhere to expand and develope?

Yeah, yeah and FPS games are dead because of the never ending stream of Grey-and-Brown games about manly men, with manly guns. You're going to see the same things overdone and then overdone again in any profit-driven creative process. It's not really bad thing, they just stick to the formulas because they work. However that doesn't mean nothing interesting ever comes along. We're barely even 3 years past Persona 3. It's a bit early to be calling the death of anything.

The J in it is key.. Its not really made for you.

BloodDeathAssault wrote:
How can JRPG's stay alive with nowhere to expand and develop?

They stay alive because Japanese people love seeing a rainbow's assortment of hair colours, people with animal ears, wings, or tails, clothes that even a blind guy wouldn't wear, and cookie-cutter angsty teenage-hero characters that all have some life-shattering unique, heartfelt sad soppy story.

Likewise, many people in the West are slowed to some degree, and they think that the storylines and characters are actually of a decent quality. Generally, these people are in the 12-16 bracket and/or are the same crowd that think the Twilight movies are the best films ever produced/books ever written.

FFXIII was good? Well you learn something new everyday.

I have a Jap-wannabe buddy that seems to think that as well. Mind you, he even thinks he can talk Japanese, though I'm sure the Int'l students at the university would make him cry with very little effort and a few "Shut the feth up" moments

I guess the Halo Fanboys have nothing on FF fanboys.

metallifan wrote:

BloodDeathAssault wrote:
How can JRPG's stay alive with nowhere to expand and develop?

They stay alive because Japanese people love seeing a rainbow's assortment of hair colours, people with animal ears, wings, or tails, clothes that even a blind guy wouldn't wear, and cookie-cutter angsty teenage-hero characters that all have some life-shattering unique, heartfelt sad soppy story.

Likewise, many people in the West are slowed to some degree, and they think that the storylines and characters are actually of a decent quality. Generally, these people are in the 12-16 bracket and/or are the same crowd that think the Twilight movies are the best films ever produced/books ever written.

With your permission,I am going to brand that on a plaque and hang it on the wall behind my computer so I remember not to bother typing everytime someone comes along and posts about how awesome JRPG's are supposed to be

Actually there has been a lot of criticism in Japan about the latest FF game, due to its linear storyline and various elements fo combat which I don't remember.

However, despite this version being criticised, there's no particular reason to think the entire genre is going to tank.

There have been about 15 FF games, and heaps of Dragon Quest, Disgaea and various other series, going back 20 years.

El_Gostro wrote:
With your permission,I am going to brand that on a plaque and hang it on the wall behind my computer so I remember not to bother typing everytime someone comes along and posts about how awesome JRPG's are supposed to be

As long as you put it in your sig so that I can add it to my "quoted in" count, yes, you may

If they were gonna be scrapped, they should'v done so years ago.

metallifan wrote:

El_Gostro wrote:
With your permission,I am going to brand that on a plaque and hang it on the wall behind my computer so I remember not to bother typing everytime someone comes along and posts about how awesome JRPG's are supposed to be

As long as you put it in your sig so that I can add it to my "quoted in" count, yes, you may

Done!!!!

hahaha i like your style and i love the good points made, jap people do have a weird "fedish" :/ with skimpy looking characters that they can day dream about because they dont have anything close to a gf haha

I never really got most of the JRPG appeal to be honest.

Although as with most things, you go through periods of drought where nothing new really happens before something comes along which adds a little bit (or a lot) extra into the genre.

Then you get a glut of games trying to emulate it (some of which can be good), then another dry period of not much going on, etc.

Ah. Feel the hate. FF13 had the first 3 hour roadblock but if you survive that theres a quite a diamond in the rough, there's just a ton of rough to get through. "JRPG"s are big because rpgs are still huge in Japan. The American gaming crowd tends to lean towards shooters and sports........ ing sports games. It's just a different culture and just because something is different doesn't make it bad, just different. You'd think that a crowd that spends so much time on a forum dedicated to playing with toys would understand that. I still love the old turn based rpgs because the stories are spectacular. I still break out the Dreamcast from time to time to play Grandia 2.

Nothing ever goes away entirely. Some types of game stop being commercially viable so you stop seeing them on the shelves, but even they carry on in public domain and independent games. Look at point and click adventurers or side scrolling shooters, for instance.

I’ve never felt any of the appeal of JRPGs. I prefer tactical combat based around positioning, not on match-ups and attack selection. And I like rpg stories I can interact with and maybe even change, and JRPGs seem to be almost universally linear. And I hate grinding.

So basically JRPGs are pretty much the opposite style of game to what I want. But whether or not I like them has nothing to do with the idea that lots of people out there love them and they keep selling a whole lot of copies.

rocklord2004 wrote: It's just a different culture

Wait...Japan and the US are different cultures? Why wasn't I told about this?

rocklord2004 wrote:and just because something is different doesn't make it bad, just different.

And just because someone thinks they are saying something profound and original doesn't mean they are. If you could find anywhere in the thread where anyone specifically said they didn't like it because it is Japanese that would be great. As far as I could tell the people that aren't big fans of JRPGs gave better reasons than just that "they are different".

I'm gonna have to agree with rocklord on this. Especially the playing with toys remark. They're games guys. Some good, some bad. There's WoW nerds, FF Fanboys, Twilight Emo kids, and yes, even 40k Geeks.

Seems like it's just hating on a game to hate. I remember when my buddy turned me on to FF VII. I told him he was a nerd, no one likes RPGs. Lo and behold, I got sucked in in a heartbeat.

Is FF XIII good? Prolly not. Is Madden 2010 good? Yes. Or Portal? Or Fight Night? All a matter of perception. So treat it as such. Different strokes for different folks.

The problem I've had with JRPG's that I've played over the years is that it seems each successive entry in the series just seems to get bigger and bigger. Pokemon is a great example. The first games had, what, 151 of the critters running around. The latest count I think was somewhere on par with a small European country.

To me, this growth makes the games less accessable, as it suddenly takes a lot longer to complete the game (I do have a completionist streak in me, but I do have limits ).

Final Fantasy Peaked at #9 and has been nosediving ever since IMO.

Ruckdog wrote:The problem I've had with JRPG's that I've played over the years is that it seems each successive entry in the series just seems to get bigger and bigger. Pokemon is a great example. The first games had, what, 151 of the critters running around. The latest count I think was somewhere on par with a small European country.

To me, this growth makes the games less accessable, as it suddenly takes a lot longer to complete the game (I do have a completionist streak in me, but I do have limits ).

I'm sorry, but who plays Pokemon for the story? The games have lots of "extra stuff" but the main game is the same length throughout the series, not to mention pathetically easy. Competitive battling is where it's longevity is.

JRPGs have sucked for a long time IMO. Fight fight fight fight cure fight fight fight bigspell cure fight fight fight fight randomannoyingcutsceneattack randomactualannoyingcutscene. Awesome "story" there If I wanted what most of them offer I could watch a movie while punching "+1" in a calculator and get nearly the same effect. My brother beat FF7 without knowing what the stats did, assigning Materia based on which seemed cooler with each person and just choosing weapons that had little green up arrows. I'm not saying nobody should enjoy them, I'm just saying they're not really games at all.


Edit: I miss 2d fighting games. All game, all skill, vague if any story. Like Scrabble, but with your hands and eyes instead of your brain.

ahtman wrote:

rocklord2004 wrote:and just because something is different doesn't make it bad, just different.

And just because someone thinks they are saying something profound and original doesn't mean they are. If you could find anywhere in the thread where anyone specifically said they didn't like it because it is Japanese that would be great. As far as I could tell the people that aren't big fans of JRPGs gave better reasons than just that "they are different".

Metallifans (and others in different threads) general disdain for the way that the Japanese are. At least Metallifan recognizes that western "civilization" is equally odd in its own right. Good try and knocking me down though. Only a 2.3 from the Russian judge though.

rocklord2004 wrote:

Metallifans (and others in different threads) general disdain for the way that the Japanese are. At least Metallifan recognizes that western "civilization" is equally odd in its own right. Good try and knocking me down though. Only a 2.3 from the Russian judge though.

Actually, TBH, I just dislike JRPGs because the story is always Terribad, and rather cut + paste (Though the Western "Medieval Adventurer" theme gets old, but at least the stories have enough variation to still be half-decent). The games are always on rails and feel very linear, the characters are so simplistic as to be like those found in a less-than-B-movie, the weapons are FRIKKEN HUEG and OOT every time, and the dialogue makes me cringe and remember 8th grade Drama class.

In short, many folks, myself included, dislike them because they symbolize everything an RPG should never be.

@Metallifan: I seem to notice the same thing about all RPG's as of late. The last really fun one I played was FF13 and it took 3 hours to get to the good stuff (fanboy perservearance ftw....kinda :3). I personally don't mind a linear story in a lengthy RPG since it is telling a story after all. It just better be a good one. We should go back to what Nintendo did back in the NES days. Companies were only allowed to release so many games a year. If you were a good company that made enough good games you could make more games under an alternate game. If they don't wanna do something like that there needs to be some kind of quality control in place. Too many crappy games for every system and every genre for my tastes.

Such is the case when game-building tools are so readily available though. Add to that that you can now build your game on top of a game engine that already exists, thus eliminating a lot of work from the start (Good examples being Danté's Inferno, all of the old Battlefield Games, and King Arthur) and it's easy to pump out games in the dozens these days. Not that they're all bad (Olf BF games > BFBC garbage) but you're going to get a lot of crappy titles when you spend less time making each game and more time making as many as you can. Quantity over quality in most cases I guess, though I still find most (if not all) of the decent titles come from Western developers.

rocklord2004 wrote:Metallifans (and others in different threads) general disdain for the way that the Japanese are. At least Metallifan recognizes that western "civilization" is equally odd in its own right. Good try and knocking me down though. Only a 2.3 from the Russian judge though.

Perhaps he said something different before the post was edited but he seemed to me to be exaggerating for effect and went on to also criticize western RPG's as well. Even so, his reason wasn't just that they were different, as you proclaimed to be the case. Your statement about things being different was about as insightful as pointing out that clouds are in the sky and as useful to your argument as wet noodles are to getting a motorcycle started. Instead of throwing out flat, bumper sticker aphorisms perhaps arguing your points would be more useful. That is all I was trying to say. I wasn't trying to 'knock you down', as you seem to think, but you thinking that says more about you I suppose than it does me.

No, that edit was just a bit of spelling correction. That's been the post since the start. As a huge RPG player (~ 95% of the games I've owned through my life have been RPGs) I can safely say that JRPGs are a stain on the market these days. Back in the SNES era, they were quite entertaining. Now they just feel like the developers are just trying to sell copies. There's almost no thought put into the story or design anymore. It's like they're just focusing on the people that lack the patience and interest to really get into a deep and immersive game because it requires too much thought.

Basically, JRPGs are like FPS games of today. I remember back when puzzles and tests were a huge part of FPS games. Those are mostly gone now too. It feels more and more like "Follow the GPS. Kill some guys. Win the game!" with every passing year.

Probably why I'm drawn more to freeform RPGs like M&B Warband - there isn't much for originality in the market these days, so why not make my own story in the game?

@Ahtman: My little statement was more of a blanket statement towards all the hate that seems to be going on with dakka and things that are different than the norm anymore. It was never intended to be a great insight just a casual observation.

As for FPS I agree. They are getting more and more simplistic with no kind of thinking involved other than "how should I take this guy down." I would love to see a new groundbreaking type of game but they usually aren't worth the effort with todays lemming gamer. If want a fun (although a bit dated) JRPG you can give Disgaea a shot. It's very anime styled though so if that annoys you go ahead and avoid it. :3

rocklord2004 wrote:@Ahtman: My little statement was more of a blanket statement towards all the hate that seems to be going on with dakka and things that are different than the norm anymore. It was never intended to be a great insight just a casual observation.

Maybe this is part of the problem; you seem to confuse hatred with dislike/disinterest. Perhaps you aren't meaning to but you seem to be presenting the attitude that if people don't like what you do it upsets you so you think convincing them to like it. It may have been a casual statement but you still said it in a post trying to argue your position, for which it did nothing useful.

Meh. I've always been bad about putting emotion into text. I'm a very visual person. This is why I don't write stories or intentionally get into lengthy arguments on forums. I could do something about it but I'm relatively lazy. I'll just do a final clarification that it was a blanket statement towards the attitude that several people on Dakka seem to have against all things Japanese. My current distaste is for RPG's in general rather than just Japanese ones. Scratch that, make it games in general. I miss the days of great games instead of decent ones that will turn a profit.

Meh, there's lots of room for growth. I'm not willing to call the genre dying - I'm not even sure I'm willing to call it stagnant.

JRPG's appeal to a certain market. I used to love them, but that was when I had hours and hours I could devote to a game. I will no doubt play one again and enjoy the heck out of it, but I'm not the consumer of them I once was. Anyway, but because something falls out of favor with an individual is hardly a death knell for something. Heck, if you've played video games long enough you realize that there really are painfully few innovations and it takes something quite remarkable to spark that same feeling you nostagically wish for when thinking of the games of your youth.