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Whirlwind wrote:
An element of the UK still remains

That's the point though, it can't as the UK has just voted to leave. Well probably can't at least, there will be all kinds of negotiations going on around this so who knows what the final deal will look like.

Anti-Brexit March in London.

It is amazing how big this backlash truly is.

Corbyn office 'sabotaged' EU Remain campaign
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36633238

The prime minister's resigned. No-one knows who the next occupant of No 10 will be.

And today, some of the most senior figures in the Labour Party are trying to push their leader out too. There have been concerns about Jeremy Corbyn's performance for months and months. But it was his role, or lack of role, in the campaign to keep the UK in the EU, and his sacking of Hilary Benn in the middle of the night, that has given members of the shadow cabinet the final reasons to quit. Several have already gone; as many as half will be gone by the end of the day, I understand.

And documents passed to the BBC suggest Jeremy Corbyn's office sought to delay and water down the Labour Remain campaign. Sources suggest that they are evidence of "deliberate sabotage".

One email from the leader's office suggests that Mr Corbyn's director of strategy and communications, Seumas Milne, was behind Mr Corbyn's reluctance to take a prominent role in Labour's campaign to keep the UK in the EU. One email, discussing one of the leader's speeches, said it was because of the "hand of Seumas. If he can't kill it, he will water it down so much to hope nobody notices it".

A series of messages dating back to December seen by the BBC shows correspondence between the party leader's office, the Labour Remain campaign and Labour HQ, discussing the European campaign. It shows how a sentence talking about immigration was removed on one occasion and how Mr Milne refused to sign off a letter signed by 200 MPs after it had already been approved.

The documents show concern in Labour HQ and the Labour Remain campaign about Mr Corbyn's commitment to the campaign - one email says: "What is going on here?" Another email from Labour Remain sources to the leader's office complains "there is no EU content here - we agreed to have Europe content in it". Sources say they show the leader's office was reluctant to give full support to the EU campaign and how difficult it was to get Mr Corbyn to take a prominent role.

Mr Corbyn has insisted publicly that he campaigned hard to keep the country in the EU and that he made a number of speeches around the country, and attended many campaigning events. But many shadow cabinet ministers believe his performance in the campaign has shown that he is simply not capable of leading the party. One senior figure told me: "People have just had enough and are embarrassed to be part of it." Jeremy Corbyn's team are adamant that he will stand again for the leadership, and they believe the party's members would back him again.

He has had persuasive and vehement backing from the party's members who he energised last summer. But as the Labour Party reels from Thursday's result, it is not clear that support will be as solid as it was. MPs report that some of their members are contacting them to say they've changed their minds about Mr Corbyn. We'll see. It's possible that within days, both of our two main political parties will be looking for a new leader.

 Future War Cultist wrote:
Junker is a bit of a donkey-cave isn't he?

Isn't he now pals with Putin?

Article written by Laura K, immediate discard.

Personally i'm kicking back and laughing - it's a bit bloody late for marches now people!

Still, it just proves the thing i voted leave over - to protest this decision they don't like they are able to just turn up and be heard in london.
If we had stayed then the leave supporters would have to travel to brussels to make the same kind of protest.

 Da Boss wrote:
Article written by Laura K, immediate discard.

Is she especially bad then?

 SirDonlad wrote:
Personally i'm kicking back and laughing - it's a bit bloody late for marches now people!

Still, it just proves the thing i voted leave over - to protest this decision they don't like they are able to just turn up and be heard in london.
If we had stayed then the leave supporters would have to travel to brussels to make the same kind of protest.

If the Remain marches had a solution that allays the fears and quells some of the skepticism of Brexiters, then I'd actually be in favour of their rally. But as it looks to be going, it's a hissy fit about democracy doing its job, and has been called waaay too early to have any idea what it's talking about.

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Da Boss wrote:
Article written by Laura K, immediate discard.

Is she especially bad then?

I think the concern is that she is not entirely impartial in her reports (but then who is?)

Well as i see it if the result is 'kicked into the long grass' by any means i would guess that ukip would be the next goverment. (I do NOT want that) as the majority of brits do not like being hoodwinked or scamed.
as to scotland that would be down to them. I like them to remain in the union but i have no say on them as im not in scotland and equally it was a U.K. referendum not a country by country one so sour grapes from stergeon.

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Da Boss wrote:
Article written by Laura K, immediate discard.

Is she especially bad then?

If you're a Corbynite, yes. They consider her to be the Wicked Witch of Westminster.

Anyone, who isn't a moon-howling nutter, either a) has no idea who she is or b) doesn't care in the slightest.

 SirDonlad wrote:
Personally i'm kicking back and laughing - it's a bit bloody late for marches now people!

Still, it just proves the thing i voted leave over - to protest this decision they don't like they are able to just turn up and be heard in london.
If we had stayed then the leave supporters would have to travel to brussels to make the same kind of protest.

It's never too late to put up a protest or march to show how much you disapprove of the unfolding events. it's quite extraordinary compared to the norm. As a nation we are generally a lot more laid back and it takes a lot to push to the point that we think we have to protest like this. It's almost certain that the government will take notice. The question is which MPs might join the rally?

The one good thing that may come of it though regardless is just how engaged the public have become over politics in the last few days. Maybe that will inspire a new generation to become politicians and not just from mainly the same pool.

 Mr Morden wrote:

Is she especially bad then?

She was involved in the attempts to get a shadow cabinet minister to resign live on air for the Daily Politics. Not what I would describe as 'fair and balanced' reporting.

 Selym wrote:


If the Remain marches had a solution that allays the fears and quells some of the skepticism of Brexiters, then I'd actually be in favour of their rally. But as it looks to be going, it's a hissy fit about democracy doing its job, and has been called waaay too early to have any idea what it's talking about.

This is one of the problems with politics today, people are expecting other people to solve their problems. How do you expect people in favour of the EU to know the concerns of people that want to leave the EU if its noting but soundbites and no one ever explains it? NF is particularly bad for this - he goes to the EU, tells them he has a problem with it all and then leaves; it helps no one, not the EU, not the other parties, not the electorate. If problems are explained, discussions can be had and compromised solutions can be found. Would you stand up in front of this march and state you favour leave because of these issues, but maybe these solutions could help change Leavers views? Would you be willing to listen to the counter information and in the end discuss a solution that whilst not perfect for either party be at least satisfactory? What would you propose to solve your concerns?

The best solutions come from the people that have the problems as long as they are willing to be flexible.

I'm not saying I expect them to have an answer, just that if they had one, I'd be fine with the rally.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And to flip perspectives, they want us to stay in the EU, but propose no changes to address its issues. Brexiters have a solution, but it is that we leave.

 Silent Puffin? wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

Is she especially bad then?

She was involved in the attempts to get a shadow cabinet minister to resign live on air for the Daily Politics. Not what I would describe as 'fair and balanced' reporting.

Thanks had a wonder around google - see what you mean.

Nasty stuff said about her on that petion etc though - no need for that.

She spoke ill against the one true god and SHE MUST BURN.

 Selym wrote:
I'm not saying I expect them to have an answer, just that if they had one, I'd be fine with the rally.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And to flip perspectives, they want us to stay in the EU, but propose no changes to address its issues. Brexiters have a solution, but it is that we leave.

How do you expect an answer when they don't have an issue? That's the point, only those with the issues can really present the solutions because those without the issues can only 'guess' what might be the appropriate solutions. However these solution might make the situation worse because they simply (and not maliciously) do not understand.

Leaving the EU does not resolve the issues Leavers have with the EU, it just avoids them, those same issues might be even worse for us on the outside because you have no way of influencing them. It's like quitting a war game forever because you don't understand how to use a unit. What would you do to improve the EU?

I'm not just saying this as a leave voter or somebody who believes in Scottish independence, but I'm genuinely fearful for the future of the UK.

I'm not talking about the pound losing some value, or city spivs losing out on some stock market points here and there, I'm worried about what happens if our democratic values go out the window...

Marching against BREXIT, petitions, parliamentary plots to keep Britain in the EU, can only lead to two things:

Best case scenario, and this is still a pretty gak scenario for me, UKIP rallies the leave voters and they get a big chunk of MPs to put an end to this nonsense of parliamentary plots.

I don't like UKIP, I detest Farage, but I'm a democrat, and the referendum vote must be respected.

The Scottish independence referendum result was a crushing blow, and I was pretty down for a few weeks afterwards, but I respected the result. That's democracy...

If democracy is not respected, we get the worst case scenario: riots, anarchy, leave voters taking the law into their own hands...civil...war...

I hope to God I'm exaggerating, and I'd appreciate it if somebody would tell me I am exaggerating, but we're in uncharted territory here, a place we haven't been for centuries, here on this island...

Our leadership is in turmoil, newspapers are not helping. The country needs to reflect and calm down...

Whirlwind wrote:

 Selym wrote:
I'm not saying I expect them to have an answer, just that if they had one, I'd be fine with the rally.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And to flip perspectives, they want us to stay in the EU, but propose no changes to address its issues. Brexiters have a solution, but it is that we leave.

How do you expect an answer when they don't have an issue? That's the point, only those with the issues can really present the solutions because those without the issues can only 'guess' what might be the appropriate solutions. However these solution might make the situation worse because they simply (and not maliciously) do not understand.

Leaving the EU does not resolve the issues Leavers have with the EU, it just avoids them, those same issues might be even worse for us on the outside because you have no way of influencing them. It's like quitting a war game forever because you don't understand how to use a unit. What would you do to improve the EU?

Didn't I just say that I Do Not expect a solution from them?

You've also missed the proportion of Remainers that do not like the EU, but their fear of being out outweighs their hatred/disdain/other of being in.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
I'm not just saying this as a leave voter or somebody who believes in Scottish independence, but I'm genuinely fearful for the future of the UK.

I'm not talking about the pound losing some value, or city spivs losing out on some stock market points here and there, I'm worried about what happens if our democratic values go out the window...

Marching against BREXIT, petitions, parliamentary plots to keep Britain in the EU, can only lead to two things:

Best case scenario, and this is still a pretty gak scenario for me, UKIP rallies the leave voters and they get a big chunk of MPs to put an end to this nonsense of parliamentary plots.

I don't like UKIP, I detest Farage, but I'm a democrat, and the referendum vote must be respected.

The Scottish independence referendum result was a crushing blow, and I was pretty down for a few weeks afterwards, but I respected the result. That's democracy...

If democracy is not respected, we get the worst case scenario: riots, anarchy, leave voters taking the law into their own hands...civil...war...

I hope to God I'm exaggerating, and I'd appreciate it if somebody would tell me I am exaggerating, but we're in uncharted territory here, a place we haven't been for centuries, here on this island...

Our leadership is in turmoil, newspapers are not helping. The country needs to reflect and calm down...

I want to say that this is an exaggeration, but they way today has gone, it could be an understatement.

I'm 75% on the side of "UK Parliament rejects democratic rule". (As to what I think will happen, not what I think is right)

I'm up for a good civil war.


I had better start buying up pitchforks.

 welshhoppo wrote:
I'm up for a good civil war.


I had better start buying up pitchforks.

Hopefully, in a few days, people will calm down, that the anger from the losing side will fade away, just like it did in September 2014...

Next Month's Referendum Campaign:

"Should Scotland, ROI and NI declare war on England and Wales?"

I want to say that this is an exaggeration, but they way today has gone, it could be an understatement.

I'm 75% on the side of "UK Parliament rejects democratic rule". (As to what I think will happen, not what I think is right)

Let's hope it doesn't come to that...

With our armed forces and police being under orders from the 'remain' politicians i don't see civil war, i anticipate un-civil unrest instead.

Hopefully the 'remain' side will realise how big that pandoras box is and not go there.

 Selym wrote:
Next Month's Referendum Campaign:

"Should Scotland, ROI and NI declare war on England and Wales?"

The last time the Irish invaded Wales, a giant threw Snowdon on their headS......



Better grab my longbow.

 SirDonlad wrote:
With our armed forces and police being under orders from the 'remain' politicians i don't see civil war, i anticipate un-civil unrest instead.

Hopefully the 'remain' side will realise how big that pandoras box is and not go there.

Technically, they swear an oath of allegiance to old Liz. Who knows what mood she's in? She might be tempted to reverse the result of the English Civil War

On a serious note, I hope sanity prevails and that the remain side come to their senses.

Britain has written a cheque it cannot cash

http://blogs.reuters.com/breakingviews/2016/06/24/britain-has-written-a-cheque-it-cannot-cash/

he author is a Reuters Breakingviews columnist. The opinions expressed are his own.

Britain’s public wants to leave Europe. Whether the decision is rational or not doesn’t matter. Now, a smooth process requires three things: managing political uncertainty, uniting a deeply divided population, and ensuring the UK enters negotiations feeling economically strong rather than weak.

It could be months before talks actually begin on how the UK will deal with its 27 jilted bloc-members. In that time a lot can happen. First up is a likely reshuffling among Britain’s leaders. Prime Minister David Cameron, who publicly backed a “Remain” vote, can’t easily stay. A logical replacement for him is former London mayor Boris Johnson. But a pro-leave leader won’t play well with the 48 percent of Brits who wanted to remain. The new government will have a small majority and could prove unstable.

Second is the effect on Britain’s short-term prosperity. This matters because the “Leave” camp argued Brexit would not damage the economy. Even if the immediate effects fade over time, the conditions following the vote will decide whether Britons want their leaders to head to Europe seeking divorce, or entreating their peers for a deal. If what follows is deeply traumatic, the narrow win for the “Leave” camp leaves scope for a new prime minister to refrain from pushing the button.

Investment into the UK, half of which comes from Europe, is likely to hang in the balance. Why buy assets in a country throwing away access to its biggest export market, and riven by discord? That could in turn affect employment. Foreign investment projects created 42,336 British jobs in 2015, according to Ernst & Young. There’s small comfort in the fact that consumer confidence, as measured by research firm GfK, is still far above where it was for most of the past decade – albeit on a negative trend.

The central bank can help contain the damage. Cutting rates might increase consumer confidence and encourage investment, but it could also worsen the effect of a weakening currency. The Bank may have to intervene to prop sterling up. Troublingly, Mark Carney, the head of the Bank of England, advocated staying in the European Union. Over half of the country has publicly disagreed with him.

The biggest danger is that those promoting an EU exit have entered into a contract with voters that they may be unable to honour. The pro-leave side said that following Brexit there would be more control over immigration – which is deliverable – and more prosperity – which probably isn’t, unless the UK can persuade its jilted European partners to offer a comparable trade deal that might encourage other EU nations to depart.

Leave was also supposed to offer a return of control to the British public. Yet what the country’s next leaders inherit is a country profoundly split along regional and class lines, heading into a period of prolonged uncertainty. That doesn’t sound like the kind of control worth having.

Oh do calm down. The chance of armed conflict happening over this vote is zero point nothing.

Likewise the negotiation is gonna be a breeze. get some top men in, bish bash bosh, down in the pub by 4.

jouso wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
. So congratulations Remainers, you lost a fair democratic vote but you're still getting what you want. Parliament is just going to drag its heels and delay action for as long as possible.

No way. That ship has sailed.

Now it's the EU calling for swift action. And in Juncker's usual loudmouth style "it won't be friendly".

Juncker can go feth himself. Frau Merkel, the true master of Europe has spoken, and she's overruled him.