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Going to be playing with a ferocious Tau player tomorrow, 2000 pts. I know he uses Farsight and plays kinda WAAC so I expect to get bummed. Also, shop is not using beta rules, except if both players agree, and OF COURSE he doesn't want, he plays Farsight.

What should I be wary of ? I've played him once with his Index pre-Tau Commander nerf and got raped severely (didn't know he was going to play such a list to be honest). My 3 Dragoons feel useless against Tau due to insane Overwatch. Was going to play my 10 Fulgurites and 3 Dragoons in Infiltration but I wonder. Have 2 Battalion, Stygies and Dark Angels with 10 Hellblasters, Ancient and some stuff. Can post the list if you want.

 Aaranis wrote:
Going to be playing with a ferocious Tau player tomorrow, 2000 pts. I know he uses Farsight and plays kinda WAAC so I expect to get bummed. Also, shop is not using beta rules, except if both players agree, and OF COURSE he doesn't want, he plays Farsight.

What should I be wary of ? I've played him once with his Index pre-Tau Commander nerf and got raped severely (didn't know he was going to play such a list to be honest). My 3 Dragoons feel useless against Tau due to insane Overwatch. Was going to play my 10 Fulgurites and 3 Dragoons in Infiltration but I wonder. Have 2 Battalion, Stygies and Dark Angels with 10 Hellblasters, Ancient and some stuff. Can post the list if you want.

Not playing Beta rules? I would not play that kind of person. WAAC is one thing, willfully ignoring the advice of GW to help curb known game issues is just TFG.

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

Not playing Beta rules? I would not play that kind of person. WAAC is one thing, willfully ignoring the advice of GW to help curb known game issues is just TFG.

This is what I dislike about beta rules. If they're not mandatory you have to enforce them at your LGS or the people who dislike the rules won't ever use them.

I have another game with beta rules after this guy, a nice Death Guard player, who agreed on using them. Someone have to test them somehow. Going to be speaking to my LGS manager about the beta rules if I can change his mind.

Wait pistols can fire into combat now as long as it's the closest unit? That makes infiltrators a really handy way to potentially free up units that were charged by a weakened squad to shut down your shooting. That's a really cool change if true and gives your dominus a reason to actually use his macro stubber I guess.

Man there are a ton of changes to absorb. Other than the fact that I can't bring as many onagers, I feel like my admech got a good boost and I play Metallica. Id imagine the more competitive admech forgeworlds are feeling a lot better now.

Still wish we had a Skitarii HQ and a way to scout rangers, but it's a start at least.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
Wait pistols can fire into combat now as long as it's the closest unit? That makes infiltrators a really handy way to potentially free up units that were charged by a weakened squad to shut down your shooting. That's a really cool change if true and gives your dominus a reason to actually use his macro stubber I guess.

Man there are a ton of changes to absorb. Other than the fact that I can't bring as many onagers, I feel like my admech got a good boost and I play Metallica. Id imagine the more competitive admech forgeworlds are feeling a lot better now.

Still wish we had a Skitarii HQ and a way to scout rangers, but it's a start at least.

Pistols have literally always been able to fire in combat.

Yes it just clarified for other reasons. I once killed an Eversor with the Macrostubber in CC, then he exploded, hilarious

Pistols can only shoot into combat if the unit firing is engaged into combat. And I don't think that has changed with this faq.\

A model can fire a Pistol even if there are
enemy units within 1" of its own unit, but
it must target the closest enemy unit. In
such circumstances, the model can shoot
its Pistol even if other friendly units are
within 1" of the same enemy unit.

In such circumstances related to being within 1" of an enemy unit.
You can't shoot at enemies within 1" of a friendly unless you are yourself engaged in combat.

The Faq explains that if you are in combat with Enemy unit A but Enemy unit B is the closest target to your model you can (and must) shoot at B, even if B is in combat with another unit.

Oh ok, I was about to say that would be huge if you could fire into combat while being outside of it. The way he said it made it sound like that was an option, my bad.

Dont worry, robots will always be MARS. The dragoons will either be MARS as just a screen, or brought in a STYGIES aux detachment and/or battalion. The stygies AUX detachment has gotten a lot better with 5CP battalions. Basically everything admech is better now. Gunlines are better, dragoon deathpunches are better. Skitarii troops are more valuable with the extra CP. My current thinking is keep using my dakkabot-MARS-basilisks gunline. That is just because I have those models. But I keep hearing about how great artemia pattern hellhounds are, and having something fast, tanky, and suicidal would be nice as a distraction unit to protect my dakkabots. I still think 5x dakkabot + cawl is the core base for admech. I have a sentimental attachment to Cawl, Celestine, and 5x dakkabots. But very high dragoon count lists are going to be good and a STYGIES battalion that supports guard is also going to be good.

Wulfey wrote:
Dont worry, robots will always be MARS. The dragoons will either be MARS as just a screen, or brought in a STYGIES aux detachment and/or battalion. The stygies AUX detachment has gotten a lot better with 5CP battalions. Basically everything admech is better now. Gunlines are better, dragoon deathpunches are better. Skitarii troops are more valuable with the extra CP. My current thinking is keep using my dakkabot-MARS-basilisks gunline. That is just because I have those models. But I keep hearing about how great artemia pattern hellhounds are, and having something fast, tanky, and suicidal would be nice as a distraction unit to protect my dakkabots. I still think 5x dakkabot + cawl is the core base for admech. I have a sentimental attachment to Cawl, Celestine, and 5x dakkabots. But very high dragoon count lists are going to be good and a STYGIES battalion that supports guard is also going to be good.

you are correct. Dakkastelans and dragoons were a stand out either way but the faq buffed them immensely. I have no idea how you survive without a culexus. Do tell! :-) and I got with Custodes what you have with celestine. Want them in my list and always take them. I am so glad i never have to take kurlovs aquila ever again :-D

 Ordana wrote:
Pistols can only shoot into combat if the unit firing is engaged into combat. And I don't think that has changed with this faq.\

A model can fire a Pistol even if there are
enemy units within 1" of its own unit, but
it must target the closest enemy unit. In
such circumstances, the model can shoot
its Pistol even if other friendly units are
within 1" of the same enemy unit.

In such circumstances related to being within 1" of an enemy unit.
You can't shoot at enemies within 1" of a friendly unless you are yourself engaged in combat.

The Faq explains that if you are in combat with Enemy unit A but Enemy unit B is the closest target to your model you can (and must) shoot at B, even if B is in combat with another unit.

Not quite. Its saying you always shoot at the closest unit, which will be the one youre fighting. What this disallows is having unit 1 and unit 2 fighting unit A and unit B, respectively, and unit 1 shooting at unit B or unit 2 shooting unit A. If that makes sense. Theres no huge change here, its just a clarification that youre going to shoot what your unit is in combat with, not *any* enemy unit thats currently in combat and range.

Iago40k wrote:

Wulfey wrote:
Dont worry, robots will always be MARS. The dragoons will either be MARS as just a screen, or brought in a STYGIES aux detachment and/or battalion. The stygies AUX detachment has gotten a lot better with 5CP battalions. Basically everything admech is better now. Gunlines are better, dragoon deathpunches are better. Skitarii troops are more valuable with the extra CP. My current thinking is keep using my dakkabot-MARS-basilisks gunline. That is just because I have those models. But I keep hearing about how great artemia pattern hellhounds are, and having something fast, tanky, and suicidal would be nice as a distraction unit to protect my dakkabots. I still think 5x dakkabot + cawl is the core base for admech. I have a sentimental attachment to Cawl, Celestine, and 5x dakkabots. But very high dragoon count lists are going to be good and a STYGIES battalion that supports guard is also going to be good.

you are correct. Dakkastelans and dragoons were a stand out either way but the faq buffed them immensely. I have no idea how you survive without a culexus. Do tell! :-) and I got with Custodes what you have with celestine. Want them in my list and always take them. I am so glad i never have to take kurlovs aquila ever again :-D

Curious as to the reason for ditching kurlovs. You going with Admech 6+ one or just meaning that with the +5 battalion your now swimming in CP? What’s your warlord trait poison now then?

Hi

With the new faq, what do you think about a list of this type?

Mars bataillon:
- Cawl
- TPE
- 3 Destroyers plasma
- 2x5 vanguard
- 4 Kastelan
- 10 infiltrators

Stygies bataillon:
- TPD
- TPE
- 3x5 rangers
- 4 Dragoons
- icarus onager
- neutron onager

Thanks !

 Ideasweasel wrote:


Curious as to the reason for ditching kurlovs. You going with Admech 6+ one or just meaning that with the +5 battalion your now swimming in CP? What’s your warlord trait poison now then?

Was never a Fan of adding astra militarum to admech and only played the CC with space Marine scouts and a culexus in a soup Battalion. Since Battalion are 5 cp now 2 of them are enough cp for me. Sure you can use Monitor if youd like to. Since i add custodes i tend to till that warlord is dead and i can use shoulder the mantle.

 Ideasweasel wrote:

Iago40k wrote:

Wulfey wrote:
Dont worry, robots will always be MARS. The dragoons will either be MARS as just a screen, or brought in a STYGIES aux detachment and/or battalion. The stygies AUX detachment has gotten a lot better with 5CP battalions. Basically everything admech is better now. Gunlines are better, dragoon deathpunches are better. Skitarii troops are more valuable with the extra CP. My current thinking is keep using my dakkabot-MARS-basilisks gunline. That is just because I have those models. But I keep hearing about how great artemia pattern hellhounds are, and having something fast, tanky, and suicidal would be nice as a distraction unit to protect my dakkabots. I still think 5x dakkabot + cawl is the core base for admech. I have a sentimental attachment to Cawl, Celestine, and 5x dakkabots. But very high dragoon count lists are going to be good and a STYGIES battalion that supports guard is also going to be good.

you are correct. Dakkastelans and dragoons were a stand out either way but the faq buffed them immensely. I have no idea how you survive without a culexus. Do tell! :-) and I got with Custodes what you have with celestine. Want them in my list and always take them. I am so glad i never have to take kurlovs aquila ever again :-D

Curious as to the reason for ditching kurlovs. You going with Admech 6+ one or just meaning that with the +5 battalion your now swimming in CP? What’s your warlord trait poison now then?

If you run two Battalions, you can do Monitor Malevolus. But I recommend 5+/5+ because you can easily blow 5 CP in the first turn (Infiltrate, CDI, Binharic Override, Wrath of Mars).

Iago40k wrote:
you are correct. Dakkastelans and dragoons were a stand out either way but the faq buffed them immensely. I have no idea how you survive without a culexus. Do tell! :-) and I got with Custodes what you have with celestine. Want them in my list and always take them. I am so glad i never have to take kurlovs aquila ever again :-D

Yeah. My most recent list has 6x Mars Robots and 6x Stygies Dragoons.


I solve my Psyker problem by shooting them from outside 18". Haha.

Octovol wrote:
Ya know i'm not overly sure the Graia dogma is affected. The FAQ affects abilities that allow a unit to ignore damage/wounds. Unwilling to yield protects the unit from death, not the damage that caused the death. Otherwise a D6 dmg roll would mean you'd have to roll 6D6 to ignore death on a 1W model.

EDIT:

‘Roll a D6 each time a model with this dogma is slain or flees – on a 6 that model refuses to yield; either that model is not slain (and has 1 wound remaining), or that model does not flee.’

Actually, now that I read this again, I see your point.

The changes are the bolded section above, which changes ignoring one wound to preventing death itself with 1 wound left.

So some questions for you guys:

1) Do you think the increase in CP made the Destroyer + Robot combination more viable? (Sure the destroyers are still kinda squishy, but everything shooting at them isn´t targeting the bots)

2) Whats your general consensus regarding Dunecrawlers? I really want to include them, but honestly I don´t know if it is worthwile... The Neutronlaser is quite random and lacking good targets in my meta, while the Icarus is allright, but when firing it I mostly wish that is would be just another robot xD
They got huge bases though, so they can be used to screen in front of my robots.

3) I´m debating to increase my robot count from 4 to 6: Anyone experiment with splitting such a group to 2 x 3 units, do prevent to be tied up?

I've always love the Elimination Volley stratagem with my plasma Destroyers, it's a great boost and benefits both the Destroyers and the Robots. 2 more CPs are welcome.

I'm wondering some times if playing the Eradication Beamer in very aggressive lists where you move up the board might be worthwhile. I'm speaking of a mostly short-ranged but intense gun line comprised of Beamers, Electro-Priests, Vanguards, Dragoons...

I've played 5 Robots in one squad once with Mars, and I think it's easier to protect them this way, and one less deployment to go first easier. It's a meaner Overwatch (especially with the Technomartyr's Raiment close by) and they take the same space as two units so the screen is the same. Don't forget they can fire through their own unit if I'm not mistaken, so you can pack them up nicely.

I love dunecrawlers. Roll 1 for shots? Obvious command point opportunity Have any negative to hit modifiers? 1 cp stratagem to get +2 to hit, and you are presumably retooling everything from your Archmagos/Cawl.

Dunecrawlers are solidly resilient too with the 5++ re-roll 1s and more wounds than robots.

 ph34r wrote:
I love dunecrawlers. Roll 1 for shots? Obvious command point opportunity Have any negative to hit modifiers? 1 cp stratagem to get +2 to hit, and you are presumably retooling everything from your Archmagos/Cawl.

Dunecrawlers are solidly resilient too with the 5++ re-roll 1s and more wounds than robots.

You could potentially use Beamcrawlers as a massive screen they're so cheap for their toughness )

Octovol wrote:

 ph34r wrote:
I love dunecrawlers. Roll 1 for shots? Obvious command point opportunity Have any negative to hit modifiers? 1 cp stratagem to get +2 to hit, and you are presumably retooling everything from your Archmagos/Cawl.

Dunecrawlers are solidly resilient too with the 5++ re-roll 1s and more wounds than robots.

You could potentially use Beamcrawlers as a massive screen they're so cheap for their toughness )

They only problem with that now is the limit of three datasheets. Dunecrawlers should be 1-3 per unit just like leman russes.

 Aaranis wrote:
Going to be playing with a ferocious Tau player tomorrow, 2000 pts. I know he uses Farsight and plays kinda WAAC so I expect to get bummed. Also, shop is not using beta rules, except if both players agree, and OF COURSE he doesn't want, he plays Farsight.

What should I be wary of ? I've played him once with his Index pre-Tau Commander nerf and got raped severely (didn't know he was going to play such a list to be honest). My 3 Dragoons feel useless against Tau due to insane Overwatch. Was going to play my 10 Fulgurites and 3 Dragoons in Infiltration but I wonder. Have 2 Battalion, Stygies and Dark Angels with 10 Hellblasters, Ancient and some stuff. Can post the list if you want.

Well this went actually really well, he played a Farsight bomb with a good chunk of Crisis (maybe 9) with a dozen drones, two Devilfish with Strike Teams, one quad-fusion Commander, a Stealth team, and a Riptide, I think that's all, some more Fire Warriors and cadre blades.

He dropped first turn with the Farsight bomb and killed one of my two Robots and 1 DA Bike, maybe some Rangers too, don't remember. He made a mistake as he forgot to say his Drones were shooting something else and so made them shoot the Robots but they did nothing. Overall he didn't do much damage this side of the board, but killed most of my infantry with other units.

My turn, I pop Binharic Override, draw my Destroyers from their cover, pop Elimination Volley and prepare to shoot at the Farsight bomb. I first kill all the drones and some Crisis with my 10 Intercessors, my DA Master on jet pack, 3 bolter Inceptors and some bikes, and then I unleash the Robots and the Destroyers, who rolled like 14 shots on overcharge, it was insane. I then charge the remaining Crisis and Farsight with 5 Intercessors, my TH/Combi-melta Master, and the 3 Inceptors, who deep-striked previously on a height, and charged from there (thanks the FAQ btw). I proceed to kill the Crisis, consolidate with my Master, and pay 3 CP so that he may fight again, and this killed Farsight.

After that my opponent had lost the spirit, we played one more turn but it was mostly clean-up from me, he couldn't control the board with so few models. Revenge !

On the other end I got to play at 1750 pts against a DG player and he used like 100+ Poxwalkers and Plaguebringers, with a Nurgle Prince and Great Unclean One. We played the Relic and I conceded turn 4 because he finally caught it and there was no way I could get it back, not enough firepower. I made some mistakes like not screening sufficiently my artillery, and even then it was just impossible to kill that GUO so he rampaged.

I think I'll stop playing against Nurgle for a while, it's just frustrating to do so little damage against them. I only win against them when playing Cawlstar.

 Aaranis wrote:
I've always love the Elimination Volley stratagem with my plasma Destroyers, it's a great boost and benefits both the Destroyers and the Robots. 2 more CPs are welcome.

I'm wondering some times if playing the Eradication Beamer in very aggressive lists where you move up the board might be worthwhile. I'm speaking of a mostly short-ranged but intense gun line comprised of Beamers, Electro-Priests, Vanguards, Dragoons...

I've played 5 Robots in one squad once with Mars, and I think it's easier to protect them this way, and one less deployment to go first easier. It's a meaner Overwatch (especially with the Technomartyr's Raiment close by) and they take the same space as two units so the screen is the same. Don't forget they can fire through their own unit if I'm not mistaken, so you can pack them up nicely.

The whole issue with elimination volley was keeping those destroyers alive if you went second. Since deep strike alphas are now much weaker and making a MARS battalion is more attractive, I think an argument can be made to bring back some destroyers. The plasma ones are some of the strongest point for point shooting in the game, but they are flatly suicidal when they shoot and they die like flies from mere bolter fire. They are effectively an all in strategy. If you can resolve the ELIMINATION VOLLEY + WRATH OF MARS + BINHARIC OVERRIDE, yeah, you are going to win. But tournament players will do their damndest to deploy to deny you that stack of abilities. If you bring that to an RT, you will likely get 1 game of 3 where you get first turn and your opponent deploys in LOS. I was theorycrafting with my admech buddy and something we were considering was running a skyshield landing pad to support a 6xdakkabot stack. If you crowd the floor of the landing pad, then they are unassaultable until there is space to place a base of a model on there. So if you were to cram Cawl, the Dakkabots, and 3x basilisks up there, then you would be immune to assault until something died. You could possibly hide the destroyers under the platform to deny LOS and then move them up on the platform in some kind of swap on your turn. The big payoff here is that the platform itself greatly improves the LOS of your robots. Making them 3" taller helps a lot. And will help the destroyers.

Hah, I like the sky shield idea. Shame detachments are so dang tight, for me at least.

 ph34r wrote:
Hah, I like the sky shield idea. Shame detachments are so dang tight, for me at least.

Yeah this is a new thing post FAQ. Every list should have 2 battalions. So you only get 1 spare detachment for oddball units.

Wulfey wrote:

 Aaranis wrote:
I've always love the Elimination Volley stratagem with my plasma Destroyers, it's a great boost and benefits both the Destroyers and the Robots. 2 more CPs are welcome.

I'm wondering some times if playing the Eradication Beamer in very aggressive lists where you move up the board might be worthwhile. I'm speaking of a mostly short-ranged but intense gun line comprised of Beamers, Electro-Priests, Vanguards, Dragoons...

I've played 5 Robots in one squad once with Mars, and I think it's easier to protect them this way, and one less deployment to go first easier. It's a meaner Overwatch (especially with the Technomartyr's Raiment close by) and they take the same space as two units so the screen is the same. Don't forget they can fire through their own unit if I'm not mistaken, so you can pack them up nicely.

The whole issue with elimination volley was keeping those destroyers alive if you went second. Since deep strike alphas are now much weaker and making a MARS battalion is more attractive, I think an argument can be made to bring back some destroyers. The plasma ones are some of the strongest point for point shooting in the game, but they are flatly suicidal when they shoot and they die like flies from mere bolter fire. They are effectively an all in strategy. If you can resolve the ELIMINATION VOLLEY + WRATH OF MARS + BINHARIC OVERRIDE, yeah, you are going to win. But tournament players will do their damndest to deploy to deny you that stack of abilities. If you bring that to an RT, you will likely get 1 game of 3 where you get first turn and your opponent deploys in LOS. I was theorycrafting with my admech buddy and something we were considering was running a skyshield landing pad to support a 6xdakkabot stack. If you crowd the floor of the landing pad, then they are unassaultable until there is space to place a base of a model on there. So if you were to cram Cawl, the Dakkabots, and 3x basilisks up there, then you would be immune to assault until something died. You could possibly hide the destroyers under the platform to deny LOS and then move them up on the platform in some kind of swap on your turn. The big payoff here is that the platform itself greatly improves the LOS of your robots. Making them 3" taller helps a lot. And will help the destroyers.

Would lean towards a 3 or 6 destroyer squad?

For destroyers I see a few ways to run them.
(1) 1x3 -- hide them out of LOS and hope
(2) 1x6 -- this has best odds of surviving, but makes them an even better alpha target, higher risk, higher reward
(3) 1x3 or 1x6 + 100 point bunker -- this is very safe and guarantees you get the volley off, also you can give your destroyers another 3" of height when they come out. You can also do some shenanigans with making charges harder on your robots with creative bunker placement. [you must exit the bunker to use the strategem]

Wulfey wrote:
For destroyers I see a few ways to run them.
(1) 1x3 -- hide them out of LOS and hope
(2) 1x6 -- this has best odds of surviving, but makes them an even better alpha target, higher risk, higher reward
(3) 1x3 or 1x6 + 100 point bunker -- this is very safe and guarantees you get the volley off, also you can give your destroyers another 3" of height when they come out. You can also do some shenanigans with making charges harder on your robots with creative bunker placement. [you must exit the bunker to use the strategem]

Thanks. I guess take the phosphor as secondary weapon option?

Not sure I rate a S5 bolter over 3D6 overwatch shots/60% charge failure for 2pts more a model.

Things to note with 6 destroyers - that's too much to bring back as an Agrinpinna detachment, whereas two units of three can be more than that.

You still want to run them as Mars, so they synergies with Cawl + bots.

If only we could have a stratagem or something to make a regular Dominus an Archmagos, so that we don't have to take Mars if we want rerolls.