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Chaos Lord, Chaos Runesword, Helm of Many Eyes, Shield, MoK- 310
Sorcerer Lord, Lvl 4, Infernal Puppet, The Black Tongue- 355
Exalted Hero, BSB, Book of Secrets, Enchanted Shield, Biting Blade- 180

40 Maruaders, GWs, Full Command, MoK- 250
40 Maruaders, GWs, Full Command, MoK- 250
40 Maruaders, GWs, Full Command, MoK- 250
10 Marauder Horsemen, Flails, MoK- 180
10 Marauder Horsemen, Flails, MoK- 180

6 Dragon Ogres- 390
6 Dragon Ogres- 390
Dragon Ogre Shaggoth- 265

Total- 3000

I love the marauder models, and also this conversion for dragon ogres. I think I've narrowed down what I want to take to the above units, but I am definitely open to configuring them differently if size/equipment isn't optimum.

I know the marauder horsemen might have trouble, but I've kept them as cheap as possible, and hopefully they could do something. I'm also not totally pleased with the eqiupment on the Exalted Hero (other than the book of secrets!)- I think there might be some cheap magic items in the main rulebook that will be better than the ones I've listed, which are the "standard" common magic items listed in the Chaos army book.

I haven't used an army like this before, and I'm not sure where the characters will go- perhaps each in their own unit? I'd like to keep possible miscasts away from my lord if at all possible but would probably risk putting the BSB in the same unit as him if it was needed/helpful. I also haven't decided if I'll run these units in "horde" formation, or just 5-wide and really, really deep!!!

Thoughts very welcome

For reference, I found this a much, much better conversion for Dragon Ogres - as it uses actual Ogres. Truly the best I have seen to date.

As for the list, I like it. Not sure about that BSB - I made mine a Blasted Standard holder to further hamper enemy shooting, which is the biggest threat to those fat blocks, imo.

I put my Sorcerer on a Disc, for the sake of keeping him out of units. With the benefit of the Golden Eye, he does well enough on his own vs. shooting. Just keep him out of combat, if you go that route. Love the Puppet, though. Good choice.

The DOgres and Shaggoth I have no experience with, but I hear DOgres were solid hitters in 7th. Not sure how they will do in 8th.

Love the Horsemen, though. Do they get a bonus for the rank? I can't recall.

The only problem with giving the BSB blasted Standard, is you can take no other magic items, and you really want that bsb to have better armor, 3+/6+ doesnt cut it tbh. If he dies, your entire army can crumble, its happened to me plenty.

One suggestion I might make for the bsb, give him necrotic phylactery. I know it sounds pointless, but bloody hell that immunity to lore of death will save you alot in 8th. Lore of Death is snipe central and your BSB is their #1 target, or so it seems in the games Ive played.

I personally dont like running disks anymore, they always get pwnd by warmachines, and I have a feeling its going to get worse without guessing. Also, Im not too sure I like black toungue on the Sorc Lord. Granted Black Toungue and Infernal Puppet are a ridiculous combo now, the last thing you want is wounds on your only caster. This edition, your caster is going to be a massive target, right up there with your BSB. I personally like to take a petty lvl1 sorc just for black toungue.

Drores and Shaggoths are brutal metals now. They hit like beasts and they get those extra stomp attacks (I forget what the 40mm base attack is called).

And yes the horsemen get ranks, although by the time they are in combat, theres a high chance they wont have that rank.

With the right stuff, a MoT Disc Sorcerer Lord will shrug off a lot of the shooting that comes his way. Better than having him in a unit, where a single miscast can level you, imo.

Also, I am thinking you may be right on that BSB evaluation. I was thinking utility, but forgot about the challenges that will be coming his way. Need to kit him to be killy, then. In my list, I may even toss the Chaos Lord for that. Not sure just yet, though.

Buttlerplug- Great points! The reason I put black tongue on the sorceror lord is that he has 3 wounds- I thought about putting it on the BSB, but then he'd be down to 1 after using it! If I can fit in another character, I'll move it.

I like your advice about adding Necrotic Phylactery to the BSB! To get it, I can just drop his Biting Blade and drop the Chaos Lord's shield for one from the rulebook (I read there is a cheap 5 point magic shield, which is cheaper than his normal one!). So they would be:

Chaos Lord, Chaos Runesword, Helm of Many Eyes, Magic Shield, MoK- 305
Exalted Hero, BSB, Book of Secrets, Enchanted Shield, Necrotic Phylactery- 185

em_en_oh_pee- I'm going for an all Khorne or Undivided list, so that's why I didn't take MoT on the sorcerer. The one time I played against one of these it did really well, though!

Also, I didn't see a link for the conversion you were talking about for the dragon ogres? I have seen one using an ogre torso, but I just love the black orc models (although I'll do some sort of head swap) and want an excuse to use them

The BSB is doubling as a "backup" caster for me with the book of secrets, just in case the sorcerer blows himself up. I know that's a risky way to go, but if he can pick a homerun spell and get it off, I think it might be worth it in certain situations?

Will be replying to all the other excellent WoC threads later in the day when my brain is working... bring on the caffeine!!

Those conversions are pimp and looks like just about anyone might be able to pull it off, plus it'd be cheaper. One box of black orcs and two boxs of cold one knights now you got me thinking!!

I like the list RiTides. I think I might be changing mine to all Khorne too. I wish I had the money to buy everything I want. Those dragon ogre conversions look great. I can't really give any advice since I don't have any experience yet with them. I think I am going to run my cavalry in 2 ranks too, but I might give them throwing axes also. My problem with chaos is too many options.

Yes, I love 'em . Just need a head swap and they'll be awesome... and it looks simple enough that I can do it! I may also convert the shaggoth... I'm thinking of using a carnosaur for the base, not sure what to use for the upper torso, though. I've heard people mention the soulgrinder body from 40k, but it looks too big to me.

I'm going to swing by the store and update this when I get back. I'm trying to find points for light armor on the marauder horsemen... if they're going after light targets (like archers) they should actually get their save against stand-and-shoot reactions or close combat attacks.

Edit: Here's a possible revised list. I've changed up the gear on the heroes completely after seeing the book, and added light armor and mus/std to the marauder horsemen.

Chaos Lord, Sword of Anti-Hero, Helm of Many Eyes, Charmed Shield, MoK- 285
Sorcerer Lord, Lvl 4, Necrotic Phylactery, Spell Familiar, Book of Secrets- 320
Exalted Hero, BSB, Sword of Swift Striking, Enchanted Shield, MoK- 180

40 Maruaders, GWs, Full Command, MoK- 250
40 Maruaders, GWs, Full Command, MoK- 250
40 Maruaders, GWs, Full Command, MoK- 250
10 Marauder Horsemen, Flails, Light Armor, Mus, Std, MoK- 208
10 Marauder Horsemen, Flails, Light Armor, Mus, Std, MoK- 208

6 Dragon Ogres- 390
6 Dragon Ogres- 390
Dragon Ogre Shaggoth- 265

Total- 2996

I'll post up with my reasons a bit later when I get the chance

I was thinking the carnosaur too and maybe a chaos ogre body. Problem is their not plastic, so already beyond my skill. I actually like the GW shaggoth, but xhw would be nice though.

Im not sure what all those items do and my lazy factor is kicking in right now so Ill have to wait till later to look at the changes you made >.<

As for the shaggoth, I suggest the LoTR troll... the plastic one with all the armour. Iirc its got many different weapon types as well. I had planned to make a kholek from a carnasaur and the LoTR troll a while back but never got the chance.

I can't believe I forgot their extra hand weapons . On the shaggoth and the dragon ogres!!! Good catch, boogeyman...

Here's a revised list with that mistake fixed! One character to go with each block, 5-wide and 8 ranks deep. The sorcerer's block has the champion, so he can avoid a challenge.

Chaos Lord, Whip of Subversion, Helm of Many Eyes, Charmed Shield, MoK- 280
Sorcerer Lord, Lvl 4, Necrotic Phylactery, Spell Familiar, Book of Secrets- 320
Exalted Hero, BSB, Opal Amulet, Enchanted Shield, MoK- 170

39 Maruaders, GWs, Mus, Std, MoK- 237
39 Maruaders, GWs, Mus, Std, MoK- 237
39 Maruaders, GWs, Full Command, MoK- 245
10 Marauder Horsemen, Flails, MoK- 180
10 Marauder Horsemen, Flails, MoK- 180

6 Dragon Ogres, Additional Hand Weapons- 438
6 Dragon Ogres, Additional Hand Weapons- 438
Dragon Ogre Shaggoth, Additional Hand Weapon- 275

Total- 3000

On the character's equipment- the lord will go first and, if he causes a wound, make a character/monster attack their own unit . The BSB is just trying to stay alive... The sorcerer has two items that give him an extra spell, so he can be sure to get what he wants with 6 spells . I was thinking to go lore of death, since Necrotic Phylactery makes him immune to the purple sun if it lands on him by mistake and also immune to being sniped.

There are so many great little items for WoC.

For magic defense - the puppet, the black tongue, the main book's dispel and 5+ wound magic scrolls. All are great for magic defense and now you don't have any. I'd try to get at least one.

I also like the 2d6 low strength gift and the breath weapon gift. The breath weapon is a nice surprise now with the new rules.

I love throwing axes on my marauders. But I run them at 5... I mean, 10 is nice if you think they won't take any casaulties going in. But it doesn't seem likely...

I need to go and look at the miscast table again- it sems like everything was pretty bad, so I don't think there's any need to move it around with the puppet anymore? I do like black tongue, and was considering adding in a lower level caster to use it, but it gets pricey to do that. I need to see how bad the low end is, since with book of secrets, my caster is only rolling D6+1, giving him a really good chance of the lowest result... if it looks nasty, I may change this, or at least add in the puppet instead of the spell familiar. I'm also considering a power familiar... will it still add a DD and PD in 8th? That seems really good for 25 points (going off of memory here)...

From reading the other WoC horde threads, I've been convinced to up the numbers in the marauders units, and run them 10-wide with flails . Along with the BSB and Chaos Lord having ASF and high initiative, these guys might carve a lot of units up before they even strike! I'm also sacrificing 3 dragon ogres (seems like a good idea). I've considered running the marauder horsemen as only 5-strong, but it seems like they won't make it there to do anything?

Chaos Lord, Sword of Anti-Hero, Helm of Many Eyes, Charmed Shield, MoK- 285
Sorcerer Lord, Lvl 4, Necrotic Phylactery, Spell Familiar, Book of Secrets- 320
Exalted Hero, BSB, Sword of Swift Striking, Enchanted Shield, MoK- 180

50 Maruaders, Flails, Full Command, MoK- 300
50 Maruaders, Flails, Full Command, MoK- 300
50 Maruaders, Flails, Full Command, MoK- 300
10 Marauder Horsemen, Light Armor, Flails, MoK- 190
10 Marauder Horsemen, Light Armor, Flails, MoK- 190

3 Dragon Ogres, Additional Hand Weapons- 219
3 Dragon Ogres, Additional Hand Weapons- 219
3 Dragon Ogres, Additional Hand Weapons- 219
Dragon Ogre Shaggoth, Additional Hand Weapon- 275

Total- 2997

I'm also torn on the chaos lord's weapon. He's got ASF from the helm of many eyes, and I could give him:

Sword of Bloodshed- +3 attacks
Chaos Runesword- +1 attack, +1 strength, +1 WS
Sword of Strife- +2 attacks
Sword of Anti-Hero- +1 attack, +1 strength for every hero in base contact with the unit
Whip of Subversion- if an unsaved wound is caused against a character/monster, they attack their own unit instead

Any thoughts on that? Right now I'm going with sword of anti-hero, but I've been tempted by the runesword (although it seems to do basically the same thing for more points... although with +1 WS, he's probably hitting on 2's against WS 4 troops, and rerolling) and sometimes by the whip...

Id say runesword, that anti-hero sword is only if theres characters in b2b... runesword is all the time.

To be honest, I think EVERY WoC army should have Black Toungue and Infernal Puppet. Yes, all results on the miscast table are bad, but some of them are ridiculous. You would be surprised how many times infernal puppet will change the entire game just by altering one miscast. And while black toungue doesnt come into play as often due to most spells going off, its just perfect when someone trys to cast that spell thats needs a 25 casting value and they fail... Say goodbye to that sorcerer and his unit.

50 Marauders... I like it! Im not sure on the horsemen, I have never found them do anything when they are alive, unless they get to the other side to see the warmachines. So I would run them with 5. If nothing else, they have to waste shots killing them rather than killing big blocks, which is a tough choice, "kill the big killy doom blocks, or kill the pesty machine killers."

As for the Drogres and Shaggoth. You might want to give them great weapons if you find the points (reducing those horsemen units?). Yeah, +1 attack is nice, but the Drogres are already Iniative 2, so giving them great weapons with a ridiculous 3 str7 attacks is just pure win. And while the Shaggoth is initiative 4, I honestly dont see him dieing in combat before he gets to mollywhop that unit and stomp them afterwords. 5str 8 attacks, followed by d6 str6 auto hitting attacks = lawl.

Darn you and your excellent advice! The great weapons look better on the conversions, too... OK, I'm seriously running out of places to chop now . What about this?

Chaos Lord, Chaos Runesword, Helm of Many Eyes, Charmed Shield, MoK- 305
Sorcerer Lord, Lvl 4, Necrotic Phylactery, Infernal Puppet- 315
Sorcerer, Lvl 1, Black Tongue- 135
Exalted Hero, BSB, Enchanted Shield, MoK- 155

50 Maruaders, Flails, Full Command, MoK- 300
50 Maruaders, Flails, Full Command, MoK- 300
50 Maruaders, Flails, Full Command, MoK- 300
5 Marauder Horsemen, Flails, MoK- 105
5 Marauder Horsemen, Flails, MoK- 105

3 Dragon Ogres, Great Weapons- 231
3 Dragon Ogres, Great Weapons- 231
3 Dragon Ogres, Great Weapons- 231
Dragon Ogre Shaggoth, Great Weapon- 285

Total- 2998

I must be getting close now . How are the character setups looking? I thought about changing the lord to whip of subversion to afford book of secrets. Any thoughts on that? If I dropped helm of many eyes and went with just sword of swift striking, I could lose a unit champion and get a level 2 upgrade on the other caster, too. Or do I have enough offensive magic as it is, and should leave things as they are?

Looks good, Im not seeing anything major pop out. Remember that since your not using a mark on your sorcs, you have to include your lore in your list now (at least I believe that was in 8th, I don't recall 100%).

Personally I think necrotic is better off on the BSB... quite frankly BSB are a giant pain in the for your opponent and as of the games Ive played, is a bigger target of the snipe spells. IfSince you can get heroes/lords in all your units, they will have to make the challanges anyways. So maybe you could drop the unit champs. Personally I like my BSBs with survivability over killyness (hell, the have 4 attacks at str5... they are killy!), so maybe you could give the BSB MoN, Necrotic Phylactery, and Book of Secrets. Hes now immune to Lore of Death, and harder to hit in combat... oh, and he generates a free power dice for your army! Hes even still got that tasty 2+ save! See what you can mess around with, and if you have extra points, think about a gift for the Sorc Lord.

Looks pretty good and runable right now though!

You're a lifesaver . Why do you like book of secrets on the BSB, rather than on the sorcerer lord? Is it because it makes the user roll D6+1 on the miscast chart? I was a bit worried about that, if it was on my big caster.

I'll look for the points for a gift for the level 4, but come on, we're down to the bone here, and you're starting to take marrow, too! I also want to keep the BSB as MoK, just to stay all-khorne (except for the casters).

Edit: I just realized that means he can't take the book of secrets (if I keep him as MoK)! I'm going to give him Sword of Swift Striking for now, as I like the idea of him and the lord chewing through an ASF unit . But depending on the miscast table (which I'm going to go look at again now) I could put the book on the Sorcerer Lord.

Chaos Lord, Chaos Runesword, Helm of Many Eyes, Charmed Shield, MoK- 305
Sorcerer Lord, Lvl 4, Necrotic Phylactery, Infernal Puppet- 315
Sorcerer, Lvl 1, Black Tongue- 135
Exalted Hero, BSB, Sword of Swift Striking, Enchanted Shield, MoK- 180

50 Marauders, Flails, Mus, Std, MoK- 292
50 Marauders, Flails, Mus, Std, MoK- 292
50 Marauders, Flails, Mus, Std, MoK- 292
5 Marauder Horsemen, Flails, MoK- 105
5 Marauder Horsemen, Flails, MoK- 105

3 Dragon Ogres, Great Weapons- 231
3 Dragon Ogres, Great Weapons- 231
3 Dragon Ogres, Great Weapons- 231
Dragon Ogre Shaggoth, Great Weapon- 285

Total- 2999

Thanks for all of the tips!!

RiTides wrote:I need to go and look at the miscast table again- it sems like everything was pretty bad, so I don't think there's any need to move it around with the puppet anymore?

I like the new list. One comment here. It seems above a result of 4, the results can be situationally ok. Losing 3 levels off your level 1 wizard sucks, but he is still a decent fighter. And having the 7 result, iirc, only hits unit nearby... so if by himself, it's ok. I love taking puppet and a sorcerer lord on disk. Gunning for 7's on my miscast. On the defensive side, the 2-4 result is significantly worse than any other result. That is because it can instantly kill any wizard. Lord of Change, Slaan... bye! So you want to keep yourself out of that zone and get yourself into it. On an average roll of 7, puppet prevents the "best" result imo and can put them from the best result to the worst if you roll 3. That's pretty nice.

Ah, sweet . You guys are a wealth of great information!

The puppet stays in, then

The sole reason I like book of secrets on my BSB then my sorc lord is because if my sorcerer lord dies... thats it, no magic. However, if I have book of secrets on my BSB, at least I have some magic. Especially this edition, he can actually get off one of the bigger spells! So no need to settle for fireball or the first lore of death spell. Give me my 6 dice and roll away!

Nice, that's what I was thinking when I put it on him earlier, too . I think I can use my level 1 sorc for a similar purpose if I keep the BSB as khorne.

While we're at it- for 2.5K I think I'm just dropping the shaggoth and a unit of dragon ogres, which leaves me 17 points. Enough to go with one of these two builds on the BSB:

Exalted Hero, BSB, Sword of Swift Striking, Opal Amulet, Enchanted Shield, MoK- 205

Exalted Hero, BSB, Blasted Standard, Shield, MoK- 205

The blasted standard will give the whole unit a 5+ ward save against shooting... and he might not need to have ASF if I keep him in the same unit as the Lord. The opal amulet in the first build gives him a 4+ ward save against the first wound suffered (one use only). So he's a lot more survivable that way, especially with the enchanted shield (which he can't take with the standard).

So I'm thinking of leaving him as-is, and just adding in that ward save for 2.5K. Marauders are cheap... so losing some to shooting shouldn't be too much of a problem. If it was a more valuable unit, I'd lean towards taking the blasted standard more. Does that sound about right?

Indeed. I am usually able to put the banner on the unit with my warriors however, I run all khorne as well, so no panic checks, and while I do lose warriors to shooting, people tend to target that BSB with spells and what not so I get paranoid Originally when I suggested making him mark of nurgle, I was going to suggest giving banner of rage to the unit... alas however, marauders have no special banner capabilities! One of the reasons I prefer my warriors... that and they are more dead killy

I see alot of people going for one of two lists now though... Marauder horde or Tzeentch Warriors... so its pretty nice having a unique Warrior heavy Khorne army for once!

Yes, I was expecting this list to be less common when I started planning it! However, I don't know how many people will actually go through with making it, since it's a horde and requires quite a bit of effort! Hopefully I'll be one of them . I've got $30 store credit to use, so I'll be getting the first box of marauders in about 2 weeks (after the rulebook purchase!) to get started

It does seem like people will go after the BSB now- I'll definitely consider putting necrotic phylactery on him instead of the sorcerer lord, but right now I'm more paranoid about losing the caster. I also wanted him to have something other than the puppet to play with! And I'm liking the BSB having ASF with the lord, although it'll probably only really be useful for re-rolling to hit.

Here's the list for 2.5K, where I'll probably actually be running it:

Chaos Lord, Chaos Runesword, Helm of Many Eyes, Charmed Shield, MoK- 305
Sorcerer Lord, Lvl 4, Necrotic Phylactery, Infernal Puppet- 315
Sorcerer, Lvl 1, Black Tongue- 135
Exalted Hero, BSB, Sword of Swift Striking, Opal Amulet, Enchanted Shield, MoK- 205

50 Marauders, Flails, Mus, Std, MoK- 292
50 Marauders, Flails, Mus, Std, MoK- 292
50 Marauders, Flails, Mus, Std, MoK- 292
5 Marauder Horsemen, Flails, MoK- 105
5 Marauder Horsemen, Flails, MoK- 105

3 Dragon Ogres, Great Weapons- 231
3 Dragon Ogres, Great Weapons- 231

Total- 2498

The two lords just fit in the restrictions... 5 whole points to spare!

To be honest, Im quite surprised people are making 2250 and 2500 lists for 8th. Based on the rules, armies, etc. I would expect 3000 or 3250 to be the new standard. And theres some flgs that are already preparing 3250 8th edition tournies... Odviously this edition encourages bigger scaled battles, and more of a variaty of units. And seems like 3250 would be ideal for this. Ive actually always enjoyed bigger games of fantasy, so I very much like this aspect of the edition. That and running 10 wide warrior units requires them to be at least 30man... And quite frankly its really hard to play an army of 30man warrior units in 2250 or 2500...

If your marauders are running horde formation I'm thinking you'll be too clogged on the battlefield. While the dragonogres aren't huge at eating spaces there will be 1d6+4 terrain pieces. Your magic phase is reasonable, but you are still forced to move forward and engage. Having one your hordes out of position from terrain could be a big issue.

I worry for your ability to deal with templates too. Any way to get a flying character or something more durable than 10 horsemen to deal with their shooting/artillery? The base of the army looks solid. I think for the points your dragon ogres and marauder hordes are a steal.

I play a horde orc army with more blocks. Were talking 5 blocks of 40+ and frankly, the only terrain that will seriously mess him up are buildings and the such... nothing else really slows units down anymore. And templates? in all honesty, he can get a charge off on turn 3, Ive done it in multiple games with both warriors and orcs... Thats only 2-3 for templates. So unless they are packing a ridiculous amount of templates (empire?) then I wouldnt be too worried. Granted its only 150 marauders, which isnt a whole lot for a horde army, but its still 150 models and you better be rolling DAMN good to kill at least 20 from from each unit in 2-3 turns...

I know you are tight on points, but have you tested out Wulfrik at all? I am not keen on most characters, but his table-edge thing seems like it could really unbalance an opponent if they don't prepare for it - and if they do, it might work to your advantage.

Buttler- I agree about the larger games taking place more commonly. The only thing I'm not sure about is the looser restrictions at 3K- you can take a greater number of repeat special/rare units, which means even more warmachines! So I'm not sure if people will generally want to face that... I always consider 3K a more "complete" army, so I like to plan for it, although I personally would prefer a game of 2999 to avoid the extra templates

oldschool- I originally wasn't planning to go horde formation, but I think with just 3 main units, I can pull it off. It does seem to make them a lot deadlier! I'll give it a try and see how it works out; I can always field them as (super!) deep-ranked units if it didn't work. Or even, if there were a lot of buildings on the board, simply put them down in a different formation than I had planned.

As far as getting to warmachines, the only things that fly are (I think) a daemon prince, or a mount for a hero like a dragon or manticore. They're all too expensive for warmachine hunting... with my wood elves I'm taking 2 eagles for this very purpose, but I feel like the marauder horsemen are the closest thing to it. Hopefully I've got the numbers to make it across the field!

em_en_oh_pee- Wow, that's a cool character . I hadn't read his entry until now. Definitely tempting, and something I'd consider trying out. I don't know if I want to count on using him, though, since some events don't like/allow named characters. Also, it looks like his unit might not show up until quite late in the game! And can't charge until their next turn... but having him show up behind the enemy with 50 marauders would be quite an intimidating possibility!!

RiTides wrote:em_en_oh_pee- Wow, that's a cool character . I hadn't read his entry until now. Definitely tempting, and something I'd consider trying out. I don't know if I want to count on using him, though, since some events don't like/allow named characters. Also, it looks like his unit might not show up until quite late in the game! And can't charge until their next turn... but having him show up behind the enemy with 50 marauders would be quite an intimidating possibility!!

I think even just the possibility is game changing. That forces folks to really weigh out where they put their army and what they do with it. Even if they don't get in until later on due to some poor rolls, the psychological effect could be worthwhile. As for tournaments with no specials, what the hell? Who does that silliness? I just wouldn't go to those, since that is a lot like comp scores, which I think are equally silly. Anyhow, I like the current list a lot, though. The Horsemen for warmachines, the big blocks for smashing, and the DOgres and Shaggy for pulping heavier stuff. Seems sound, to me.

Thanks . It's definitely better than when i first posted it! And I already have a trade lined up for the cold ones to make the dragon ogres!

The last two small tourneys I went to used ETC restrictions, so that's what I'm thinking of- but I'm sure it will be changing (or possibly even just going away) for 8th edition, so it might not really be a worry.

He definitely looks tasty! I didn't realize he starts rolling on turn 1 (albiet on a 5+)! If I wanted to try him out, I think I'd do it one of the following ways:

-Drop the Chaos Lord, add Wulfrik and another unit of Marauder Horsemen, and give all the horsemen units light armor.

-Drop the BSB, add Wulfrik, and give the sorcerer lord his enchanted shield.

I'm not sure which is more important, since the plan without Wulfrik would be to use both the general's leadership, and the BSB's reroll to make sure that my units don't break from combat if they lose. One of them would have to go for him to step in... but it could definitely be worth it in some games!