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Right for those parents out there. What’s the best way to teach your kids how to play the game?

Now my son 13, as he’s grown up his always enjoyed watching the games I played and throwing the dice, (god I’ve never seen so many one’s especial when he roll’s for me)
Now he states he wants to play but not do the modelling side, that fine I just gave him 6000 point of Templar’s, I’m more a modeller than a gamer any way, and it was a good excuse to start my Wolves.

Getting him to read the rules is impossible and his ability to listen when explaining the rules before, during or after a game is driving me to distraction.

So before I give up or kill he HELP.

Hard call mate, here's a suggestion for todays 10 second attention span youths...get him to play a bit of Dawn of War maybe, it doesnt teach you the rules, but it gives you the basic idea. If he likes that, he maybe inspired to learn the rules later. I was maybe fifteen when I started and I loved reading all the fluff and the like, but that was before the internet! So, give him something that's relevant for his generation, and my guess is thats computer games.

Wow, showing my age there!

Damn kids, get off my lawn!

It possible a sign of his generation he'd play computer games all day, and do great but even here he never picks up the rule books, I sometimes wonder if he can actually read. We've every Dawn of War there is, and they're played to death.

What gets me more than anything he's the one that wants to play (or maybe he's just got a fetish for throwing dice)

I know its weird for me to offer advice ( since im always called dumb ) , but i have confidence in what im about to say!

If your child is familiar with warhammer , may it be from growing up watching you , or self interest. But if for any reason he wants to play but not want to spend time reading rules , you have to take a step back.

Take a step back and find out what exactly is he interested in warhammer for. He should know not knowing rules = him not able play proper games , thus figure out why? Is it lack of patience? or perhaps , warhammer doesnt interest him? but he just want to spend time with his father?

Well I can give a few suggestions. First off have you thought about going to the local GW or FLGS and have them give him a demo game? Therefore you can pawn that task off on someone else.

Another idea is instead of getting him to sit down and read the whole rule book have you tried using the small black book from AOBR. Its small and less challenging to read than the big one. Or if that doesn't work maybe just the quick reference sheet.

I mean realistically the doesn't need need all those diagrams and things in the begining. What he needs are the basics. also, you said you gave him 6000 points of models. For a new gamer that is a daunting amount of men. Why don't you try playing in an escalation format. Start with a small 250 poing game to start then after a while work up to 500, 750 and so on. This will teach him about army comp and how to play the game graduadly. You can put it to thhim this way. In a computer game you dont' start at level 99, but level 1. 250 point game is level one and so on. Maybe this kind of relation will set will with him. Hope it helps.

Yeah...I can't believe I'm writing this sentence, but, you should listen to Dumplingman! Ha, that's an awesome name dude! Anyway, the escalation approach is how I got my flatmate into 40k. He saw me painting and got some models to paint after a few months, we played a few small skirmishs until he got his first codex...Orks, sucker!

And now, its just a game of one up manship with him. He looks at a unit and goes, 'man, this is gonna crush you' and I point out a single rule in the game. He sulks for a few days and comes back with 'ha, ha, have you seen this Deffrolla! It's going to crush you!' and I point out another rule, and he sulks for a few more days again. Its all about crushing thier dreams one piece at a time, not overwhelming them so much that they never dream again.

That way, when they're truly ready, you can crush them even harder and laugh maniacally all the way!

Also, what Dumplingman...(still can't believe this is a sentence!) said about the smaller rulebook from AOBR worked too. I told my mate, that he could move to the big boy book when he won his first game...Nothing like a little competition to sucker someone into learning!

All good advice. I'm going to insert a little from a GW training packet for demoing agents that was passed along to me from someone who used to do them:

KISS. Keep It Simple. Seriously. Start easy with everything hitting on 4+, wounding on 4+, and armor saves/cover saves on 4+. Use a single squad on each side of about 5 shooting models and play in a 2x2 board. In the second game, introduce 5 more models on each side with assault abilities and heavy weapons and explain that. Then add an IC. Finally, explain that each army is different and each unit has different stats, intorducing the normal to-hit, wound, and armor numbers. Move to list building, play 500 points on a normal table, etc.

Starting small with easily digestable bites makes everything easier. My son started 40K when he was about 10, and has gotten pretty good at remembering the basic rules, but still has trouble with strategy, list building, and more advanced rules - particularly assaults for some reason.

As far as attention span goes, try Kill Team or Combat Patrol as alternatives. Great games in 1 hour or less and all the components of a full size game are present.

I teach 7th grade, so 12-14 is my bread and butter.

First, don't make the mistake of thinking your kid can't handle the big book. I'd say if anything, the AOBR book would be a mistake. It doesn't have any of the story or fluff or stuff that would actually get your kid *interested* in the game. Rules are just instructions. From what you said, your kid isn't interested in instructions, and that's fine. The story is what's interesting, so try that.

The *best* route is to get one of his friends to teach him. Kids that age are...reticent...to learn from adults, but they'll gobble it up from their peers. Maybe when one of his buddies has a birthday give him a rulebook and tactical squad box. If that's too pricey, you could always buy yourself a new book and pass the "battered" one along. Or grab one of the cheap older editions (it's how my friend finally got me to get started in the game).

6000 points was waaaaaay to many. 500 would have been better. Then he could have earned his troops up to larger levels however you saw fit.

That said, maybe get a couple of the novels or the video game. Rules are just rules, he needs to be interested in the story if you really want to get him to get engaged in the game.

Think of it like farming - you can prep the environment and plant the seeds, but the plant has to grow on it's own.

gavis idea is one i posted on another request that was the same

5 guys everything is 4's to hit to wound to save

5 guys introduce movement

5 guys introduce assault

2 squads of guys

take a break and talk about whats going on and what they like to do more of what are they having problems with.

now move on to more complicated things like blast weapons heavy weapons etc..

then move on to the actual tables to hit and to wound

build a few 500 point lists of different models/combinations effectiveness is not important variety is.

evaluate and add more


should be able to get most of this in on session and you will probably need to do this 2-4 times to make it stick well.

Or, think of it like jail...the only way to learn how to use soap on a rope is by dropping it a few times and...you know what...stick with the farming metaphor...that probably works better....

I should just clarify what I meant by moving to the 'Big Book' My flatemate is over thirty so hes more than capable of reading the book, he just needed to be guilt tripped into becoming a better player. I think what 1-UP said is probably a better idea...even if he does play a heretic army!

And just because he's got 6k to play with doesn't mean that he's going to jump into apoc from day one. It will give him some variety to play around with once he's up and running. I got my son almost 5k of necrons for X-mas just a few months after he started playing and he uses what models he thinks are cool at the moment. Nothing wrong with that either, just make sure that you're playing fluffy, too, to keep things on an even keel. When my "B-man" pulls out his Flayed Ones, I leave the Seer Council at home and take out the Swooping Hawks.

I play with my 10 year olds their attention span is getting better but keeping it simpel and fun helps.

Son 1 has: Ultramarines with a carnifex and a drop pod that moves around...a lot.

Son 2 has: orks, Some chaos, random miniature company minis and some steam tanks that I have made.

Commanders or cool minis get resurrected.

I should be ruthless and take the easy wins they provide me with, god knows I need them!, but I conspire to let them win. they enjoy beating me and know I let them but its still fun for them.

We now play 500pt games sometimes smaller depending on crankiness and time.

Chill out and have fun.

I think you definatly need to start small. Build a 500 point balanced army for him.
As to learning the rules I think the best way is through playing. So go through the turns with him step by step. explainign as you go along.
When you've played a few games with the 500 point army get him to make any changes as he sees fit, explaining the releivant rules and pros and cons of different units as you go.

Both Gavin and 1-up have excellent suggestions.

I started both my boys (6 and 9) with little groups of 3 guys each... as closely matched as I could get them. All marines. Then I started adding little groups of Eldar aspect warriors (dire avengers), or a heavy weapon, etc.

Starting really small, getting the basics down & getting more involved and interesting as you go seemed to work for my kids. The eldest has friends who play... which help, except they aren't that good with the rules. So be careful with peer teaching... might not be the best way to learn 'em right (though it will do wonders for enthusiasm).

I've started the same thing with my 6 and 9 yr olds. I'm doing much as Mr. burning and Mr. Thorne have suggested. I give them a half dozen figures or so, we set up some terrain, and everything is 4+. After a couple of games, I throw in a commander each that does everything on 3+, and gets to do it twice each turn. Right now I'm not focusing on all the Warhammer rules, I'm teaching them gaming rules: turn sequence, core concepts, terrain and movement... The more games we play, the more strict I get about accurate measurements and sticking to the rules. Good luck!

The kill team mission from the recent Battle Missions supplement is what I started my sons (ages nine and five) off with (actually Space Hulk). Then we started adding small things like another vehicles, etc. after they got the hang of it.

Low model count and quick games should be your goal.

Keep in mind that to a young kid a even a 1500pt. game can seem like a very large game, especially when they are being asked to remember rules, stats, etc., etc., and that while your motive might be to play 40K, they might just like hanging out with you.


I know with my guys it helps that we have the ability to keep our games set up as long as we need to. So I gauge the pace of the game on what I am seeing and hearing from them. If they seem to be getting fatigued/bored we might stop the game at the end of the current round and pick it up again later in the day or even another day.

Also one has to consider that not every child of a gamer wants to be a gamer. They may be somewhat interested mostly because you are, but that it might not be something that they get into long term.

Also it is ok if they just want to game, or don't feel like painting. My sons love to play but they have no interest at present painting models. This is ok. At this stage let them just enjoy doing something with their dad.

keep it loose and fun and see what happens...

Thanks some good advice, I try it out this weekend.
the idea of 2 squads of 5 sound a good place to start I see how it goes.

What I don't want and I've seen it with my mate son is the poor kid has no idea what he doing let alone tactics of the game, he just throw's the dice. I'd love for my son the beat me in the game, but not too offend.

He's 13 and you're only now starting?

Warhammer (especially something checkers-simple and largely-mindless like Fantasy) can be played by a 10-year old.

So my best advice to you would be to rewind the clock and start 3 or 4 years ago as something you guys do together, so that, when he turns into a teenager in 2010, he'll already be a kid who enjoys playing Warhammer with his dad.




Failing that, start him out like any other n00b, with the starter set rulebook missions - Battle for Macragge / Assault on Black Reach (?). Then play small games of 400, 500, 750, 1000, 1250, 1500 pts, starting with Troops and graduating to add more and more units, one by one. Keep it simple so the kid's short attention span doesn't get overloaded.

Great advice here, really. My 11 year old has been playing since he was 9. We both moved into 40K together, so I pretended to not know some of the rules, and let him be the hero for looking them up in the codex. Now, he really DOES know the game better than me. He doesn't like painting and modeling either, but loves being the "go to kid" for rules questions. I happen to love painting and modeling orks, which is his army, and he's not got like maybe 8000 points worth and even a stompa now.

It also helped that there was a kid near his age who has attention problems like the ones you mention that played at the local store. He took him under his wing, and now that kid is a regular playing partner for him. Too bad you don't live near me; my boy would be perfect to teach him. Hell, he teaches me.

Jihadnik wrote:Or, think of it like jail...the only way to learn how to use soap on a rope is by dropping it a few times and...

I'm thinking you're like the bear hunter in the joke...

... when you were taking showers in jail, eventually one of the guys said: "You're not REALLY here for the washing, are you?"

JohnHwangDD wrote:He's 13 and you're only now starting?

Warhammer (especially something checkers-simple and largely-mindless like Fantasy) can be played by a 10-year old..

Have you got kids?
It not as if he's not been encouraged over the years, but fortunately his interests until recently have been of Football, which he's good at, or player computer games. Now trying to force any kid to do something is counter productive, the more you try the more they dig their heels in. I'd much rather he willing wants to play at 13 then never take the hobby up.

I started in this grand hobby with Fantasy which I found a much more in depth game than WH40K up until the last edition when they total F**ked up the Orcs amongst other thing.

Got 2, still small, but I intend to start them early.

The way I got my son to play was by taking him to the local club with me (insert where you normally play against someone else instead). Each time we played using my army I let him do more ie first game he rolled the dice for me and sorted out the hits etc, next one he moved the units where I wanted them and rolled the dice, next one let him choose where certain units moved and rolled and so on. He now has his own Dark Angels army (no accounting for taste) and wants to start a Necron one.

Try it with your son but let him go at his own pace. Good luck

Mick

We were supposed to be washing?

This may not work for your son, but I started playing this game in 2ed when I was 8. The game was way too complex for me to read the book. Basically what me and my stepdad did was played on the same team and he only let me run a unit or two at a time until he saw that I had the gist of that unit down.

I remember the first time I was given two units...haha a tact squad and a dreadnought. Now at 22 I sometimes complain because I always seem to have too many units (I play bugs).

Anyway YMMV, but I learned a much harder version of the game at a much earlier age. And I agree with what others said ealier too, he probably just wants to spend time with you. Discuss tactics with him, make him feel involved. When he does something, try and see what his logic his and be open to letting him make mistakes so he can see why your advice is better to listen to.

My last major point is to watch who he plays. A lot of players take this game way to competitive these days (especially compared to 2ed). I'd try to find opponents that will be willing to give him some lee way and maybe play fun lists with him...he won't want to continue playing if he gets his a$$ whipped consistently.

I'm sure you'll figure it out, the fact that you posted on here for advice is a good start.

Good Luck

My son started when he got a Space Wolf Battleforce and some characters for Cristmas, just a couple of weeks short of his 10th birthday. We started at the 500 point level. I didn't make him read the BRB, but did ask him to read through the Codex. Games took a while, as I explained the rules to him, and told him what his best course of action would be.

7 months later, he still hasn't read the BRB, but he understands the rules, and we can play 2,500 point games now without me having to prompt him.

Also, he does enjoy painting - has painted his full army, apart from a couple of characters. And I only painted them for him as he wanted everything done for a certain game we played over the last school holidays.

Just keep playing mock games with him where you do everything.

When I started I couldn't learn the rules, I just couldn't read them and have them stick...

When I played lots of games with my friends, I just started learning general trends like "Space Marines always hit on a three"... Once I was able to get reasonably familiar with how a game WENT I could then learn rules, such as how BS actually works.

Dad - "You like this new shiny HQ mini son"?
Son - "ooooh shiny" *drool*
Dad - "Well, go read the rule book for 30min with NO tv on in the background and its yours"
Son - "Wha?? GIMMI NOW"!!!
Dad - "No shiny for yooouuuu" as he waves mini in front of sons face.
Son - "fine"!! Snatches book from dads hands. Walks off saying something about parents and poop.

Repeat with each new shiny mini. Question son on rule book later.

If all else fails go back to the old school basics --- GET A WHIP AND A CHAIR !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hay it works for lion tamers

Although i hear cattle prods / shock poles are excellent motivational aids

If all else fails send him to a military boarding school

obviously, being a fourteen yearold I can't give you parenting tips, but, it really depends on you.

are you a disipline freak? or do you prefer to let things happen on their own.

in my own opinion (being a coach) you've got to physically show people how things work, explain the rules then give a physical example of what you're trying to explain.

If he refuses to listen, I suppose there isn't much you can do.

get him to read some of the less complex rules himself.

for example, teach him about how range and distance works in game, but don't like force it on him, it doesn't work with our generation.

though it sounds stupid, try testing things to see if he knows, it's rewarding if he finds he knows something, and can give you a clue into what you need to help him on learning.

hope that helps, solon.