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Ignoring for the moment that all the known primarchs were psykers.

Would a "souless" person be capable of being a space marine, or does that also make them mindless?

I figure it would be handy for a company fighing chaos or even within the eye of terror. They would just have to kill warp manifestations but be invincible to psychic attacks from daemons.

Was thinking how it would be cool if one or both of the unknown primarchs had their records deleted precisely because of such a trait.

I know of no technical reason why a soulless person couldn't become a spacemarine. It is still extremely unlikely.

First one has to consider that blanks are very rare, even rarer than psykers.
The second problem is that most spacemarines are apparently recruited from deathworlds where they used to life among tribes.
The problem with blanks is that they tend to be social outcasts, which is quite a deadly thing to be in such societies

All Space Marines start off as humans, and so it is theoretically possible. But as KingDeath pointed out, it is incredibly unlikely. And even if they found a Blank, they'd probably forward it to the Inquisition or the Officio Assassinorum anyway.

Besides, the blank would have to be male anyway-- which makes this even less likely because that cuts out over half of the population, when you're already looking for an impossibly rare occurrence. Irony of ironies if the Blank that was born on their homeworld was female

On a million million worlds with a thousand different chapters adding GW favorite rule of cool it could happen .. once.

So do it.

And just for laughs, make that Black Space Marine happen to be female

NumberZero wrote:Ignoring for the moment that all the known primarchs were psykers.

No, they are not. Mortarion at one point specifically states that their are no psykers in the Death Guards, himslef included.

To answer you're question...there is no reason why biologically a blank couldn't become a Space Marine. However, I doubt any chapter would be willing to take on a blank-it would probably play havoc with both the Librarians and Navigators of the fleets, two of the most important elements of a Space Marine strike force.

I should point out that the Exorcists go through a process making them similar to blanks-they are almost invisible to most Daemons, but do not impact any nearby Psykers.

Surely a slowed zealot chapter like black templars could do it.

In fact they might like such an effect in battle.

@ melissia Don't you mean just for arguments for all eternity..

I would do it just to watch the nerdrage amongst the more zealous SM players.

That's why I created such a character for a Deathwatch roleplay Oh FFG...

The fraternal nature of SM chapters makes blanks undesirable.
However, if the Inquisition could create a pariah SM chapter it would be pretty usefull...

The Inquisition created an ex-possessed-by-daemon Space Marine chapter, they waltzed into a pile of daemons and came out with a 99 to 1 kill death ratio due to being completely invisible to the daemons.

I would think that pariahs would be singled out even faster than psykers by the Black Ships, and taken away for Culexus training.

Nope, most blanks that are found aren't strong enough Blanks to qualify, and don't have the mental or physical fortitude to become an assassin. And those are the lucky ones that are found.

I said Pariahs found would be sent to be evaluated for Culexus assassins, and they would.

I don't know about mere blanks or weak nulls. It's possible that there could be space marines who are minorly blank or null.

ph34r wrote:I said Pariahs found would be sent to be evaluated for Culexus assassins, and they would.

I don't know about mere blanks or weak nulls. It's possible that there could be space marines who are minorly blank or null.

Pariah, Blank, and Null are, in the Imperium, basically terminology for the same thing. But yes, I imagine that most (not every-- the Inquisition has use for such individuals as servants) Omega-Minus level blanks that are found would be evaluated. It goes like this AFAIK (Lexicanum gives The Inquisition, the Eisenhorn Trilogy, and Codex: Assassins as sources):



Omega-Minus (and Psi-Minus, and so on up): To a Blank as an Alpha-Plus level psyker is to a normal psyker.

Omega: True blanks, complete immunity to psychic power.

Upsilon, Phi, Chi, Psi: Gradually increasing immunity to psychic powers

Sigma, Tau: Somewhat numb to warp fluctuations, but still effected by psychic power

Rho, Pi: Ordinary human

Omicron, Xi, Nu, Mu, Lambda, Kappa: Unconscious, minor psychic power

Iota, Theta, Eta: True psykers, albeit weak to average

Zeta, Epsilon: True psykers, stronger than average

Delta, Gamma: Magnitudes stronger than the previous

Beta, Alpha: Believed to be the most powerful a human can be and remain sane

Alpha Plus, Beta Plus, and etc all the way back down for the most ludicrously powerful psychic entities

Having read the Eisenhorn trilogy and Codex: Assassins, I've generally heard Pariah only refer to very strong blanks. (Though it is true that those with the "Pariah gene" usually refers to any level of blank)
Blank and Null are more or less the same, but Pariah implies a great deal more power.
What you posted from Lexicanum is true, though.

what is codex: assassins?

Sageheart wrote:what is codex: assassins?

exactly what it sounds like. Came free in a White Dwarf I believe. I got one.

Sageheart wrote:what is codex: assassins?

You don't know that,the name itself says it.Includes rules for the Officiro Assasironium assasins and a background.

oh wow that sounds amazing, this was free with white dwarf?
im assuming it is like the old white dwarf ork hunter rules?

is there an online pdf?

The 3rd Edition Codex: Assassins was nothing compared to the 2nd Edition Codex which contained all the detailed background.

The Psychic scale from The Inquisition suffers from it's association with that publication, being as it is little more than a glossary for terms and characters created by Dan Abnett. For instance the book claims that Eisenhorn was the first person to recognise the value of Untouchables which is complete nonsense and completely flies in the face of the background from Codex: Assassins.

When the Adeptus Mechanicus first began tests on Untouchables the tests were conducted on Earth until so many Untouchables had been gathered that they began to block out the Astronomicon. Several High Lords wanted all of them destroyed and a decree to be made calling for the extermination of all Untouchables. The Culexus Temple was formed in secret on the very edge of the galaxy after the Adeptus Mechanicus made a show of ending the research and executing the test subjects; although not all of them. Even so there are many factions within the Imperium which still call for the destruction of all Untouchables.

With that in mind it seems highly unlikely that the Astartes would ever recruit an Untouchable, that is to say, someone with a negative Warp presence. Since the effects of such an individual cannot be missed there isn't even the possibility of accidentally recruiting such a person and since even in the more 'liberal' Chapters psykers are viewed with suspicion, it seems more likely that any Untouchables discovered by Astartes would be destroyed on sight.

Gogsnik: I have no idea where you're getting that last paragraph from. For that matter, I don't even know where you're getting that "many" factions within the Imperium still call for their destruction. Or that the Blank aura is unmistakable-- it might be to someone who knows what to look for, but only a tiny number of people know what to look for.

For example, Jurgen was drafted into the Guard and went through the regular routine of purity checks without anyone noticing he was a Blank until Inquisitor Vail's pet psyker reacted to him. Bequin was a prostitute, and nobody knew she was a Blank until Eisenhorn ran into her. Most Blanks are undiscovered, living unloved and friendless lives because of the side effects of their aura.

Regardless of THAT, however, the Inquisition in particular loves finding Untouchables. Even the most puritan Inquisitor can see the use of an Untouchable when it comes to battling sorcerers and daemons, and would cherish such a find. And so it seems to me that Space Marines (at least, the non-stupid ones) wouldn't destroy Untouchables they find, but rather forward them to the Inquisition in exchange for favors. Everyone likes favors, right?

Sageheart wrote:oh wow that sounds amazing, this was free with white dwarf?
im assuming it is like the old white dwarf ork hunter rules?

is there an online pdf?

Codex witchhunters and daemonhunters pretty much has their rules word for word. The fluff in it was awesome though.

If a blank were to be used as a space marine it would have to be in chapter that doesn't have any psykers. If a SM happen to remain undiscovered as being a blank by the chapter and later is discovered by the inquistion there is a good chance that he'll be sent to the death watch.

from what i understand blanks are surrounded by a ffeidl fo dread that woudl put off most chaplains and psykers heck they may be even kileld on the spot.

Melissia wrote:Gogsnik: I have no idea where you're getting that last paragraph from. For that matter, I don't even know where you're getting that "many" factions within the Imperium still call for their destruction.

Hmm, let me see, oh yeah that's right, Codex: Assassins. Since you have obviously not read it I'll type out the relevant sections for you.

Even so, there are factions within the Imperium that would see every Pariah executed and the Culexus Temple utterly destroyed.

Codex: Assassins page twenty-one

Those factions would be, going back to a paragraph on page twenty of the Codex, the Administratum, various High Lords including the Paternal Envoy of the Navigators, the Master of the Adeptus Astra Telepathica and the Master of the Astronomicon. The Master of the Administratum was about to sign a decree that would outlaw Untouchables and the Inquisition was already exterminating every Untouchable encountered but the reserach was terminated.

Or that the Blank aura is unmistakable-- it might be to someone who knows what to look for, but only a tiny number of people know what to look for.

I don't know, maybe the sentence, 'meeting one is something no normal human can ever forget' has something to do with it. Maybe I'm reading too much into it.

For example, Jurgen was drafted into the Guard...

Irregardless of my fondness for the Ciaphas Cain series, you're seriously basing an argument on a rip-off of Flashman? It's hardly a reliable source.

Kogwar wrote:from what i understand blanks are surrounded by a ffeidl fo dread that woudl put off most chaplains and psykers heck they may be even kileld on the spot.

Uhhh. What? A Source would be good to prove that please. Chaplains are psychic sensitivity. They would not die. Librarians, are trained to deal with alot of stuff, i don't think they would be harmed, it would just be painful.

I don't know why, but this talk of blanks made me think of the traquils in Dragon age Origins. Whats-his-face storage closet man would make a good black templar.

1: There are factions != there are many factions.

2: Just because they'd remember it doesn't mean they'd know what it means.

3: And you're making things up after reading a tiny bit of fluff. If you don't like the Cain series, then how about Eisenhorn: Bequin was a prostitute for four years before an Inquisitor finally found her and found out she's a Blank. Completely by chance alone.

Melissia wrote:1: There are factions != there are many factions.

Perhaps I should have restrained myself to simply saying factions but since I wasn't making a direct quote it didn't seem important but I hadn't taken into account a tedious pedant like yourself; I'll be sure to check the semantics of my posts in future. Even so, I'll bite; you don't consider a third of the most important High Lords to constitute many? It is a significant and powerful group at any rate.

2: Just because they'd remember it doesn't mean they'd know what it means.

It kinda does actually and for someone making claims of making things up that's exactly what you're doing. The background is quite clear that Untouchables may well be incredibly rare but ordinary people are well aware of their existence so much so that they are invariably banished by their parents and people and superstitions hold that no-one should ever touch them because it brings bad luck; a bit like responding to one of your posts.

3: And you're making things up after reading a tiny bit of fluff.

A tiny bit of fluff? lol.

What exactly did I make up anyway or is that just based on my use of the word 'many'?

If you don't like the Cain series

You missed the bit where I said I was fond of the series then?

Bequin was a prostitute for four years before an Inquisitor finally found her and found out she's a Blank. Completely by chance alone.

And?

If you're saying that Eisenhorn's encounter with Bequin was purely be chance then yes that is true, he wasn't speciffically looking for an Untouchable but he knew what she was once he had encountered her. The more pertinent section of the book however is the conversation between Eisenhorn and Betancore:

"You'll like her less when you get to know her. She's an untouchable."

"Seriously?"

"Seriously..."

If ordinary people are as ignorant about Untouchables as you seem to think, despite all the background which tells us the opposite, then why would Betancore have a clue what Eisenhorn was talking about?

Of course the Eisenhorn trilogy as a background source is also flawed due to the various mistakes that Abnett made, servitor-navigators being an obvious example, so it is unwise to take the novels at face value. Even if that wasn't the case a Codex is a much more reliable and authoritative source.

You have not proven your point yet. You CLAIM the background says everyone and their mother knows about untouchables, but you provide no proof for it. Just saying it means nothing. I provided fluff examples for my claims. You don't LIKE my examples, but they're there. The one quotation you did provide did not prove your point.

Now, would you kindly give a quotation that proves your claim of "Untouchables may well be incredibly rare but ordinary people are well aware of their existence"?

@Melissia: Agreed, most people outside of the Inquasition or uper admistration wouldn't know much, if anything about Blanks. The only Blanks I can think of being widely known, and then more as ghost stories & boogymen, are The Sisters of Silence.