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Thane: Battlestandard, Master Rune of Grungni...115
40 Hammers: full command. runic standard w/ 3 Rune of Sanctuary (magic ress)...565 points

These guys walk around with a +2 ward save against magic missles and shooting (magic ress gives you a better ward save now). And are dead hard in combat.

Is this a crazy idea?
I though of a similar one too, same thing,but change the Hammers to Ranger Longbeard. And give theBSB Thane a Rune of Brotherhood. And maybe but in another thane with brotherhood+anotherunetonotmake it the same.

Scouting in a 40 man strong Horde unit that will be VERY hard to break if you shoot against them and if you attack them with shooting.

Expensive as hell but.. what would you do against them?

For that price, consider going up against 2 steam tanks. How do you think they'll do?

Hm, thats a good one. But we all know that Steam Tanks are mistake of GW that they hope would have never made in the first place.

But how "wide" is it? Base? If I can fit 5 against it, would have 22 attacks with the Dwarf Horde against it. 22 autohits str6. Pushing it's armour save down to 4+. I can see it be killed, but it would propobly be a close matchup.

But 2 of them are just horrible cheese =/

I would drop templates on them

I got a good one - lotsa Chaos Warriors (with shields, and mark of nurgle :3). They will screw you up bad.

And hope for that your opponent get allot of 1s on the wardsave from shooting?

ssREV wrote:For that price, consider going up against 2 steam tanks. How do you think they'll do?

You do realize that dwarfs have lots of cannons too, right?

Lore fo gold maybe? Or how about the lore of life spell which just takes you off the board if you fail an int test.

Golga has got it... units like this are a bad idea because there is now too much out there that skips magic resistance because it doesn't deal "hits." The top spells of the lores of metal and life, or the purple sun or pit of shades (one hears that dwarfs do not like initiative tests) will cook your unit into little crispy dwarf giblets. But the main problem is, they can be tar pitted by, say, one steam tank, or endless cheap units of zombies/ghouls, while the rest of your now-very-underpowered army gets munched.

What gives them a 2+ ward against shooting? I see the 2+ against magic missiles but not cannons, mortars, etc. Am I missing something?

The Prince of Excess wrote:What gives them a 2+ ward against shooting? I see the 2+ against magic missiles but not cannons, mortars, etc. Am I missing something?

No, your not missing anything he seems to be incorrect on how MR works, MR only improved ward saves versus spells.

In regards to beating this unit, this is how I do it.

28 Phoenix Guard with Teclis and Korhil or Caradryan, "Nough said" imitates Bernie Mac's voice from Ocean's 13.
(I love the fact that I can now hide Teclis, in the 2nd rank, after getting charged, or doing the charging.)

I have yet to see anyone even drop this unit under 75%.

About 5-8 fanatics will cut it down to size for da boyz to stump 'em to dust.

citadel97501 wrote:
No, your not missing anything he seems to be incorrect on how MR works, MR only improved ward saves versus spells.

oooh, damn I had read the rule wrong XD sorry bout that then =D

Wither the unit and then plague. Kills half of it on average. Then finish it off with some redirecting and flanking with rat ogres. Done.

People seem to be misunderstanding. You can't outnumber it with Chaos warriors, as they are 16 points, whereas Hammerers are only 12. You're not going to be able to drop templates on them all day, because their army will destroy your war machines. You CANNOT outshoot a dwarf army, and by the time you make it across the board, you don't have enough left to take out their infantry. You won't get a flank because they'll turtle up around their war machines. They don't want to move. I know this because this is the Dwarf list that I use. The only thing that's ever done anything to it is a Grey Seer got the "Dreaded 13th" off, and that only killed less than half the unit. Not that they care, as they have a Dwarf Lord in there so they don't panic. It's a true bitch.

How can you say you can't outshoot a dwarf army? Empire can, their shooting units are powerful, cheap, and some are even mobile. Skaven can, they have dakka to spare if built right.

Brettonians and other knight heavy armies can charge turn 2, is your 1-2 turns of shooting going to stop them every time?

War machines don't last long under counter battery fire, is the game going to come down to who hits the opponents war machines with their war machines first? I personally don't think so, but YMMV.

notabot187 wrote:How can you say you can't outshoot a dwarf army? Empire can, their shooting units are powerful, cheap, and some are even mobile. Skaven can, they have dakka to spare if built right.

Brettonians and other knight heavy armies can charge turn 2, is your 1-2 turns of shooting going to stop them every time?

War machines don't last long under counter battery fire, is the game going to come down to who hits the opponents war machines with their war machines first? I personally don't think so, but YMMV.

The only thing I take issue with is the Bret Knights versus this unit. Since you can't prevent return attacks, charging this proposed unit of Dwarfs with one, or even two, units of Bret Knights is most likely a losing proposition for the knights. Even if the Knights manage to win combat on the turn they charge (which isn't guaranteed considering Step Up and the number of S6 return attacks they'll see), the Dwarfs won't be running. Without the Lance bonus to S on the charge, the Knights will lose the second round of close combat badly.

While I don't play Brets myself, over the last two weeks I have been witness to Bret Knights bouncing off of several big blocks of infantry at the FLGS. Step Up prevents the Knights from automatically winning on active combat resolution, and Steadfast with the BSB re-roll keeps the charged unit around. After that, a relatively mediocre number of S3 attacks just doesn't get it done.

IMHO, knights in general need to be much more careful about what they charge than in previous editions.

I love these "how do i deal with XXXXXX" or "XXXXX is unstoppable now".

I have yet to find something that cannot be dealt with. Some things are "tough" but nothing is unbeatable.

Each warrior of khorne is worth at least 7 or 8 dwarves, two blocks of 14 khorne warriors easily throws enough attacks to fold that unit by my next movement phase. Though, being that its such a hugenormous target, i would prolly shoot the ole hellcannon at it first.

23 trolls with Throgg.

My 54 attacks to your 35?

I have regeneration. You have {Squish!}

A hellcannon or 2 would drop them like flies. Even if you shoot at the hellcannons, then your not shooting at the rest of the army which will be in your gunline by turn 2.

I'll cast the feebling spell on them that reduces toughness, then Galrauch will use the breath of change on them.

Crap ton of toughness tests, any that fail are removed from the board without any kind of save!

Or withering and Nurgle number 5. Goodbye unit!

The issue is its not a 2++ against magic as it Grungi is against magic missiles. You need to add some runes of warding to a Thane or Runesmith in the unit to get a true 2++ against magic.

Four hydras will eat em for breakfest, lunch, and dinner. Plus they'll be on you by turn two, cant kill all of em. Not to include a hord of ogre bulls will rip your face clean off.

4 Hydras would be a bigger game and also....what's the opposite of fun?

Dwarves?

citadel97501 wrote:

The Prince of Excess wrote:What gives them a 2+ ward against shooting? I see the 2+ against magic missiles but not cannons, mortars, etc. Am I missing something?

No, your not missing anything he seems to be incorrect on how MR works, MR only improved ward saves versus spells.

In regards to beating this unit, this is how I do it.

28 Phoenix Guard with Teclis and Korhil or Caradryan, "Nough said" imitates Bernie Mac's voice from Ocean's 13.
(I love the fact that I can now hide Teclis, in the 2nd rank, after getting charged, or doing the charging.)

I have yet to see anyone even drop this unit under 75%.

Where have you read that you can put a character in the back rank when being charged or charging? From what I read the make way rule only applies if a character is not getting into combat in the first place then you can move him to replace a rank and file troop that is is combat.

Brikhause wrote:

citadel97501 wrote:

The Prince of Excess wrote:What gives them a 2+ ward against shooting? I see the 2+ against magic missiles but not cannons, mortars, etc. Am I missing something?

No, your not missing anything he seems to be incorrect on how MR works, MR only improved ward saves versus spells.

In regards to beating this unit, this is how I do it.

28 Phoenix Guard with Teclis and Korhil or Caradryan, "Nough said" imitates Bernie Mac's voice from Ocean's 13.
(I love the fact that I can now hide Teclis, in the 2nd rank, after getting charged, or doing the charging.)

I have yet to see anyone even drop this unit under 75%.

Where have you read that you can put a character in the back rank when being charged or charging? From what I read the make way rule only applies if a character is not getting into combat in the first place then you can move him to replace a rank and file troop that is is combat.

One thing you can do is rer-ank the unit so that it is 2 by whatever. Command has to be in the first rank so that pushes things like heroes to the back. Not sure if there are any other ways.

As to the original post, I would charge it with swordmasters in horde formation too. If you want to play the but they would be shot game, then I would also take 6 eagles for 300 points and charge your warmachines/take teclis and timewarp/phas turn one to get into combat relatively unscathed on turn 2.

The Prince of Excess wrote:4 Hydras would be a bigger game and also....what's the opposite of fun?

Spellbound wrote:Dwarves?

This is Perfect.

I dont like the idea of putting all my hopes in one unit. Too much can go wrong. For a unit that size you can get a decent few other dwarf units that can get more done acting in tandem.