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Made in us
Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator





Imperial Embassy

hi all, i've been running this unit in friendly games for the last three years and i'd like to have an opinion on it
Venerable Terminator unit
insert fluff here>

points] 65 WS] 5 BS] 4 S] 4 T] 4 W] 2 I] 4 A] 2 LD] 9 SV] 2+
Squad: one Sergent and between 4 and 9 terminators
Weapons: the sarge has a storm bolter and power weapon and the terminators have storm bolters and power fists. all have a 5+ invulnerable save
Options: any terminator may exchange their storm bolter for a combi bolter for free, any member may exchange their power fist for a power weapon for free. two members of the squad may exchange their storm bolter for an assault cannon for +20 points, reaper autocannon for +15 points, combi bolter flamer for +5 points, combi bolter meltagun for +8 points, heavy flamer for +10 points, or a cyclone missle launcher for +25 points. any model with a power fist may upgrade it to a chain fist for +10 points. one model may be upgraded to an apohecary for +25 points or a standard bearer for +25 points.
Special rules
Accurate Teleport: Deep strike without scatter
Hard to kill: may force your opponet to re-roll all wounds inflicted on the squad once per turn. in addtion any failed armor or invulnerable saves may be re-rolled once per turn

Thought? questions and comments welcome

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/07/18 03:04:56


"Those that Dare impersonate the dead are judged to join their ranks!"- Alucard
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Made in us
Long-Range Land Speeder Pilot





so their terminators w/ 2 wounds which makes them harder to kill. the hard to kill rule, err um, makes them rediculously hard to kill... that w/ the apothecary would make them a super beast unit..
they feel too uber to me, also feel unecessary, its a honor to be in terminator armor so i doubt they have a level between vets in termie and honour guard...

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Made in mt
Thrall Wizard of Tzeentch




Malta

Their kinda unbelivebly tough to kill.. Maybe nerf their defense alil? The concept I personally find to be quite intresting.


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Made in us
Dakka Veteran




so very overpowered.... their like nobs on krak.

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Made in us
Combat Jumping Ragik






Too OP imo. Personally I'd make "Hard to kill" as follows:

Each terminator may re-roll ONE failed armor or invulnerable save once per player-turn.

Just for an idea:

Bolters from SM:

2/3 hit
1/4 wound (accounting for reroll
1/36 kill (acccounting for armor reroll) = .005% kill rate

That means I would have to fire 200 bolter rounds to kill ONE of those things or 300 str 4 melee attacks and while yes this is in the first round of shooting / assault, this makes them rediculous, especially in assault where more often than not only one enemy squad is attacking.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2010/07/18 04:14:18


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Made in us
Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator





Imperial Embassy

hm, good points, however i had a ten strong squad just killed by two fire prisms

"Those that Dare impersonate the dead are judged to join their ranks!"- Alucard
6970 points of Preheresy Night Lords 7681 points Preheresy thousand sons 8230 points Preheresy Iron Warriors 3230 points Preheresy Death Guard 4940 points preheresy Dark Angels 4888 points preheresy Iron Hands 2030 points preheresy Blood Angels 2280 points preheresy space wolfs 1065 points preheresy white scars 3210 points preheresy sons of Horus 1660 points Grey Knights 628 points Sister of Battle 2960 points adeptus mechanicus 18650 points Titanicus legio Nex Caput capitis 5566 points Imperial Guard 5875 points Preheresy Emperor's Children 3735 points Preheresy World Eaters 1710 points Preheresy Word Bearers 2090 points preheresy Imperial Fists 1570 points preheresy Alpha Legion 4600 points necrons 1420 points prehersy Raven Guard 960 points prehersy Salamanders 6334 points Tau Empire 20942 points tyranids 8722 points eldar 3125 points dark eldar 10745 points Bearers of the Light 1415 points Preheresy Luna Wolves 8508 points Chaos

 
   
Made in us
Combat Jumping Ragik






Simply fix, put them in a LRC, drive them into assault range with that oh so nice 14 AV, get out, charge, win.

Also 2 fire prisms is a lot of firepower to dedicate & luck may have been on your opponents side. My math was just pure averages on the attacks you will be facing the most.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/07/18 04:38:37


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Made in us
Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator





Imperial Embassy

i've had two squads of guardsmen kill them as well, so as you can see my luck is HORRIBLE

"Those that Dare impersonate the dead are judged to join their ranks!"- Alucard
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Made in us
Combat Jumping Ragik






Did you put them in a LRC, drive 12" pop smoke, drive 12" disembark & charge?

If not you're tactics are wrong, if so your luck is terrible.

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Made in au
Courageous Questing Knight






Australia

Venerated terminators are so old, moreover to their name venerable, that they have learnt much. they are far superior shots, and can even proove their mettle in combat, despite their ageing bodies.
These terminators have stood the test of time, proven at every chance that they are, the best of the best.
they are holy guides, each very worthy of a many tomes despite their rank.

these.
they are the stuff of legend.

Venerated terminators
Elites
275 points
infantry
Composition: 1 sergeant, 4 V. terminators
WS5 BS5 S4 T4 W1 I4 A2 Ld9 Sv2+5+
Weapons/wargear
terminator armour
storm bolter
power sword [sergeant]
power fist [terminators]

Options:
may include up to 5 more terminators... 65 pt each
Any model may upgrade his CCW to a chainfist for... 5 pt
to a thunder hammer for... 15 pt
up to two members of the saquad may take...
a CML for 30 pt, assault cannon for 30 pt, or a heavy flamer for 5 pt.

Guided scatter: such terminators have made so many drops, that they know how to change their course if they are headed for a bind. only scatters 1D6.
Hard nut to crack such terminators are rare, but can often be almost impervious to small arms fire. all attacks against this squad is considered to be -1 to strength. (to show the fact that the suits have taken so much damage that they're actually resistant to damage, much like the human immune system is supposed to be.)

Feexed for joo.

that was some over powered gak right there. trying for a 2+ armour save, 4+ FNP AND RE-ROLLS?


what were you trying to do? I mean, it sempt more like a squad of commanders and captains then of terminator vets.

EDIT: it seems like you've tried to justify your point with almost impossible tasks.

it is not possible, not nay, never will be possible for guard to injure this unit. to annihilation.

with such stats, they'd be killed before they even got a chink in their armour.

I feel that if you lie to justify a rules existance, it's not worth keeping. (I've made the same mistake. I've learnt frome experience.)
I still can never see a guard squad - two even doing any more then three wounds before they were routed.
no.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/07/18 16:34:03


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Made in us
Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator





Imperial Embassy

tell that to my buddy las cannons and melta guns in both squads... plus i didn't give them feel no pain

"Those that Dare impersonate the dead are judged to join their ranks!"- Alucard
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Made in us
Long-Range Land Speeder Pilot





@captain solon: i like it, a decent upgrade to make a venerable unit

@tyraelvaldiinhurst: you technically did, giving them the apothecary would give the squad feel no pain

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Made in us
Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator





Imperial Embassy

true, but he is an upgrade not mandatory

"Those that Dare impersonate the dead are judged to join their ranks!"- Alucard
6970 points of Preheresy Night Lords 7681 points Preheresy thousand sons 8230 points Preheresy Iron Warriors 3230 points Preheresy Death Guard 4940 points preheresy Dark Angels 4888 points preheresy Iron Hands 2030 points preheresy Blood Angels 2280 points preheresy space wolfs 1065 points preheresy white scars 3210 points preheresy sons of Horus 1660 points Grey Knights 628 points Sister of Battle 2960 points adeptus mechanicus 18650 points Titanicus legio Nex Caput capitis 5566 points Imperial Guard 5875 points Preheresy Emperor's Children 3735 points Preheresy World Eaters 1710 points Preheresy Word Bearers 2090 points preheresy Imperial Fists 1570 points preheresy Alpha Legion 4600 points necrons 1420 points prehersy Raven Guard 960 points prehersy Salamanders 6334 points Tau Empire 20942 points tyranids 8722 points eldar 3125 points dark eldar 10745 points Bearers of the Light 1415 points Preheresy Luna Wolves 8508 points Chaos

 
   
Made in us
Long-Range Land Speeder Pilot





would you really not take it? better yet would anyone not take it? unless you honestly can't (ie: cheapest hq, cheapest 2 troops and bare minimum squad barely fits in game) i would drop things to make an almost unkillable unit into one that as many others have said takes and average of 200 bolter shots to kill 1.

You love it you slags!
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Made in us
Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator





Imperial Embassy

i wouldn't take it... personally i don't see it as worth it. on a side note i missed a weapon in their options, they should be able to take plasma cannons for +30 points

"Those that Dare impersonate the dead are judged to join their ranks!"- Alucard
6970 points of Preheresy Night Lords 7681 points Preheresy thousand sons 8230 points Preheresy Iron Warriors 3230 points Preheresy Death Guard 4940 points preheresy Dark Angels 4888 points preheresy Iron Hands 2030 points preheresy Blood Angels 2280 points preheresy space wolfs 1065 points preheresy white scars 3210 points preheresy sons of Horus 1660 points Grey Knights 628 points Sister of Battle 2960 points adeptus mechanicus 18650 points Titanicus legio Nex Caput capitis 5566 points Imperial Guard 5875 points Preheresy Emperor's Children 3735 points Preheresy World Eaters 1710 points Preheresy Word Bearers 2090 points preheresy Imperial Fists 1570 points preheresy Alpha Legion 4600 points necrons 1420 points prehersy Raven Guard 960 points prehersy Salamanders 6334 points Tau Empire 20942 points tyranids 8722 points eldar 3125 points dark eldar 10745 points Bearers of the Light 1415 points Preheresy Luna Wolves 8508 points Chaos

 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





San Jose, CA

Way overpowered. Seems more like better-armored, better-equipped, more powerful nobs w/fortune cast on them.

WS5
2W
2+ armor
Different wargear for Wound shenanigans
FNP
Re-rolls to saves

Why are their wargear cheaper than standard marines? IMO they should cost the same. Also, reaper autocannon, being a chaos weapon, doesn't really seem to fit.

Accurate Teleport is too good. Make it scatter 1D6 instead of automatically landing.

Get rid of Hard to Kill. They're already hard enough to kill as it is. Otherwise, if you keep this option, just make them 1W models.


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Made in us
Long-Range Land Speeder Pilot





TyraelVladinhurst wrote:i wouldn't take it... personally i don't see it as worth it. on a side note i missed a weapon in their options, they should be able to take plasma cannons for +30 points


really? its 25pts to give a unit w/ a rerollable 2+ and 5++ to ignore wounds on a 4+ (aside form id, ap1-2 or d)
suffice to say they're insanely broken, there is no way i would allow anyone to use something like that against me even if it was one of gaming buddies

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/07/18 22:25:44


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Stone Bonkers Fabricator General






A garden grove on Citadel Station

The "hard to kill" and accurate teleport are way too good.
I thought they were too good before I even realized that they were 2 wounds each.
The weapons options seem fine, but they are wayyy too hard to kill.

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Made in us
Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator





Imperial Embassy

hm, maybe remove the apothecary then?

"Those that Dare impersonate the dead are judged to join their ranks!"- Alucard
6970 points of Preheresy Night Lords 7681 points Preheresy thousand sons 8230 points Preheresy Iron Warriors 3230 points Preheresy Death Guard 4940 points preheresy Dark Angels 4888 points preheresy Iron Hands 2030 points preheresy Blood Angels 2280 points preheresy space wolfs 1065 points preheresy white scars 3210 points preheresy sons of Horus 1660 points Grey Knights 628 points Sister of Battle 2960 points adeptus mechanicus 18650 points Titanicus legio Nex Caput capitis 5566 points Imperial Guard 5875 points Preheresy Emperor's Children 3735 points Preheresy World Eaters 1710 points Preheresy Word Bearers 2090 points preheresy Imperial Fists 1570 points preheresy Alpha Legion 4600 points necrons 1420 points prehersy Raven Guard 960 points prehersy Salamanders 6334 points Tau Empire 20942 points tyranids 8722 points eldar 3125 points dark eldar 10745 points Bearers of the Light 1415 points Preheresy Luna Wolves 8508 points Chaos

 
   
Made in us
Homicidal Veteran Blood Angel Assault Marine





They're underpriced also.

Each is stronger than a souped-up Captain, because of being able to re-roll wounds and armor saves (Albeit once a turn, but that's still strong)

 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





San Jose, CA

Yeah, get rid of the apothecary.


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Made in ca
Bounding Ultramarine Assault Trooper




I like Solon's version.

They seem slightly OP. I'd say make it so you can only have 0-1 unit of them and ONLY if you have a Chapter Master in the army to show that they are only used in the most dire situations?

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Stavromueller Beta

I like this a lot. It doesn't seem right for such awesome guys have generic weapons choices instead of individualizing them like you can in Death Wing.

Good idea! Especially with Solon toning them down little. I've been thinking that I want by BA Honor Guard to be able to take Terminator Armor and I will be using this as a guide for that option. Thanks!
   
Made in us
Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator





Imperial Embassy

yay! i did my job and got people thinking... oh by the way these are NOT as bad as my first company as they have artifacer armor, kraken rounds in their bolters and two wounds

"Those that Dare impersonate the dead are judged to join their ranks!"- Alucard
6970 points of Preheresy Night Lords 7681 points Preheresy thousand sons 8230 points Preheresy Iron Warriors 3230 points Preheresy Death Guard 4940 points preheresy Dark Angels 4888 points preheresy Iron Hands 2030 points preheresy Blood Angels 2280 points preheresy space wolfs 1065 points preheresy white scars 3210 points preheresy sons of Horus 1660 points Grey Knights 628 points Sister of Battle 2960 points adeptus mechanicus 18650 points Titanicus legio Nex Caput capitis 5566 points Imperial Guard 5875 points Preheresy Emperor's Children 3735 points Preheresy World Eaters 1710 points Preheresy Word Bearers 2090 points preheresy Imperial Fists 1570 points preheresy Alpha Legion 4600 points necrons 1420 points prehersy Raven Guard 960 points prehersy Salamanders 6334 points Tau Empire 20942 points tyranids 8722 points eldar 3125 points dark eldar 10745 points Bearers of the Light 1415 points Preheresy Luna Wolves 8508 points Chaos

 
   
Made in gb
Emboldened Warlock







From the first post, these guys should be well over 100pts each. Theyre better than obliterators as is.

The hard to kill rule is crazy - so the opponent has to roll 4+, reroll, 4+, then 2+, reroll 2+, 4+ fnp from the apoc. And thats on top of the 3+ to hit:

By my math, thats a 1/1728 chance for a bolter shot to kill one. From 1/12 fora regular term, to 1/1728? Thats pretty...well...insane.

Lose the hard to kill rule.

They arent as broken as your first company? Im guessing they have all that gear and you pay 18pts/ model?

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Made in us
Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator





Imperial Embassy

Xenith wrote:From the first post, these guys should be well over 100pts each. Theyre better than obliterators as is.

The hard to kill rule is crazy - so the opponent has to roll 4+, reroll, 4+, then 2+, reroll 2+, 4+ fnp from the apoc. And thats on top of the 3+ to hit:

By my math, thats a 1/1728 chance for a bolter shot to kill one. From 1/12 fora regular term, to 1/1728? Thats pretty...well...insane.

Lose the hard to kill rule.

They arent as broken as your first company? Im guessing they have all that gear and you pay 18pts/ model?

35 points per each member of first company, lol

"Those that Dare impersonate the dead are judged to join their ranks!"- Alucard
6970 points of Preheresy Night Lords 7681 points Preheresy thousand sons 8230 points Preheresy Iron Warriors 3230 points Preheresy Death Guard 4940 points preheresy Dark Angels 4888 points preheresy Iron Hands 2030 points preheresy Blood Angels 2280 points preheresy space wolfs 1065 points preheresy white scars 3210 points preheresy sons of Horus 1660 points Grey Knights 628 points Sister of Battle 2960 points adeptus mechanicus 18650 points Titanicus legio Nex Caput capitis 5566 points Imperial Guard 5875 points Preheresy Emperor's Children 3735 points Preheresy World Eaters 1710 points Preheresy Word Bearers 2090 points preheresy Imperial Fists 1570 points preheresy Alpha Legion 4600 points necrons 1420 points prehersy Raven Guard 960 points prehersy Salamanders 6334 points Tau Empire 20942 points tyranids 8722 points eldar 3125 points dark eldar 10745 points Bearers of the Light 1415 points Preheresy Luna Wolves 8508 points Chaos

 
   
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If there was anything I would change about terminators it would be to give them 2 wounds. I mean, nobs get two wounds. I always saw the two as roughly equivalent. Correct me if I'm wrong of course




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Devastating Dark Reaper





Very nice, I like the idea of Venerable Termies. But I reckon because they are so specialist there are so few so you would have both tactical and assault termies in one squad, also making them extremely versitile and tough. I disagree with two wounds though, the only reason nobz get 2 wounds is cause they are bloody tough, marines are tough but not as tough as an ork. The idea of having to re-roll for wounds against them is a good one, but it does make them a little over powered, maybe have an increase in points? (already very high). Oh yeah and one other thing with assault and tact termies in one squad, the assault have ws 5, the tact have bs 5 sound ok?

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Homicidal Veteran Blood Angel Assault Marine





Marines are as tough as an Orc... tougher infact. Read the books (Black Library I believe the company is called) and also look at the fact they're both T4. Nobs are 2 wounds I believe because they just ignore the fact that their limbs are getting shot off.

The idea is also nice, but the men inside the normal Terminator suits are already "Venerable" to even be allowed to use the armor, much less to be sent into battle using these priceless suits of armor. A "Venerable" Terminator squad in this sense should be made up of Librarians, and Captains wearing the armor.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/07/27 08:07:45


 
   
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Devastating Dark Reaper





Thats kind of what I meant by tough, as in ignoring limbs that have been shot off...

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92% of teens have moved on to rap. If you are one of the 8% who still listen to real music, copy and paste this into your sig.
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