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I am not 100% sure if this is the correct section to post this in, if not then I apologize and ask a mod to move this.

Thing is, does anybody really know what FW uses as concepts for new sculpts that they make.
Are things "invented" by themselves like superheavy tanks etc or do they take all things from old or existing GW art and concepts and realize them in resin?

Take for example the Elysian drop troopers and their new light vehicles, how did the process go from start to product?
Did they ask GW for permission to do it and then sent in their own concept art ideas for GW approval or did GW ask them to do the things or did tehy get acces to GWs stock of concept art collecting dust and picked something that looked cool?

For example if FW by some means decode to do a range of grot tanks or old style marine power armour, where do tehy know what is acceptable, where to go and what lines not to cross?

They don't need to ask GW for anything. The only thing that's a no-no is something that exists as a full kit or is pre-Heresy.

Kanluwen wrote:They don't need to ask GW for anything. The only thing that's a no-no is something that exists as a full kit or is pre-Heresy Marine.

FYP

Plenty of the FW super-heavies are pre-Heresy.

Platuan4th wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:They don't need to ask GW for anything. The only thing that's a no-no is something that exists as a full kit or is pre-Heresy Marine.

FYP

Plenty of the FW super-heavies are pre-Heresy.

Ehhhh. Yeah, true. But it should really be more "pre-Heresy infantry and normal armored vehicles".

That´s strange, so pre herest vehicles are ok but pre heresy marines are not ok?

How about "normal" (non pre heresy) vehicles and marines like all the "normal" shoulderpads, rhino plates and those Elysian dune buggies?

Kanluwen wrote:

Platuan4th wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:They don't need to ask GW for anything. The only thing that's a no-no is something that exists as a full kit or is pre-Heresy Marine.

FYP

Plenty of the FW super-heavies are pre-Heresy.

Ehhhh. Yeah, true. But it should really be more "pre-Heresy infantry and normal armored vehicles".

Agreed. It's seriously untapped market.

Pyriel- wrote:That´s strange, so pre heresy vehicles are ok but pre heresy marines are not ok?

How about "normal" (non pre heresy) vehicles and marines like all the "normal" shoulderpads, rhino plates and those Elysian dune buggies?

The Elysian FAVs were something that they came up with to differentiate the Elysians from "standard" Guard regiments.

Same with the Krieg Gorgon, their more unique weapon platforms, etc.

Why is pre-heresy off-limits?

Nightbringer's Chosen wrote:Why is pre-heresy off-limits?

GW is saving that for when they really, seriously, absolutely need money. Think of it as their one "Get out of jail free" card if things ever go bad.

Brother SRM wrote:

Nightbringer's Chosen wrote:Why is pre-heresy off-limits?

GW is saving that for when they really, seriously, absolutely need money. Think of it as their one "Get out of jail free" card if things ever go bad.

Er, no. It's because they don't want to bring the stuff out, period. They've been talking for a long time about a potential set of campaign supplements being released--with a full model line.

Has there ever been any talk about leading the fluff forward into 40+k?

Yes, but then it's always shot down because it'd end up with armies being discontinued or model lines having to be shut down.

To bad, I think that would mean even more models and army opportunities as more threats arise, more defenses and even alliances are needed etc.
That could also meant the return of primarch characters, the epitome of apocalypse special characters.
that would make apoc games so much more popular and thus sales would follow.

But maybe I´m just daydreaming and being totally of my mark here.

Given that there is an established FW kit for 'Pre-Heresy Land Raider", I don't know what basis any of you have for claiming that they can't do pre-heresy stuff.

That sounds like complete speculation to me.

Redbeard wrote:Given that there is an established FW kit for 'Pre-Heresy Land Raider", I don't know what basis any of you have for claiming that they can't do pre-heresy stuff.

That sounds like complete speculation to me.

And we altered the train of thought to the more proper form:
That it really only applies to infantry and complete vehicles. They don't make the Stormbirds, the Leman Russ' predecessors, the Sentinels' predecessors, etc.

Pyriel- wrote:To bad, I think that would mean even more models and army opportunities as more threats arise, more defenses and even alliances are needed etc..

The thing is, the fluff doesn't actually need to advance to do that.

The 40K setting, while 'fluffed out' to just before the end of the 41st millenium, actually covers most of the 10000 years after the Heresy. Most of the special characters currently in the game are dead in the 'current' time...

A game of 40K therefore isn't happening necessarily in the 'current' time... it's just happening sometime in that 10000 year period.


This was something that GW actually said themselves after the Eye of Terror campaign. They had decided to stop marching the fluff forwards, because going any further forward would mean too many major changes, and instead focus on fleshing out all the bit in between. Which still leaves an awful lot of scope for introducing new units, gaming ideas, and alien races.

Yeah, like Blood AngelxNecron alliances.

Still with that crap?

Ignoring each other doesn't equal an alliance.

"The impromptu alliance..."

Straight from the codex.

Which would be a topic for a different thread...

The super-heavies were around since 2nd edition Epic. They were just impossible to model until Forge World started.

This was something that GW actually said themselves after the Eye of Terror campaign. They had decided to stop marching the fluff forwards, because going any further forward would mean too many major changes, and instead focus on fleshing out all the bit in between. Which still leaves an awful lot of scope for introducing new units, gaming ideas, and alien races.

That´s a bummer. I´m just so curious what will happen in the fluff after 40k that I feel its sad GW doesnt advance things even more.

I wouldn't be too upset about not moving the fluff forward, but what I do wish would happen is that a large campaign like Medusa or Eye of Terror would come around again. I wasn't in the hobby at the time those things happened, and from what I've heard they were pretty awesome. They could easily base it on an event hundreds or event thousands of years before the year 41k, which seems to be about the upper limit of the current fluff.

Brother SRM wrote:

Nightbringer's Chosen wrote:Why is pre-heresy off-limits?

GW is saving that for when they really, seriously, absolutely need money. Think of it as their one "Get out of jail free" card if things ever go bad.

I've heard this before, and it just doesn't make sense.

GW needs to make money NOW.

Plus, as a publicly traded company, they are actually obligated to do so!

Unless the rules are different in the UK?

If they're ever in that much 'trouble', Pre-Heresy Marines aren't going to save them!

Unless, you know, they are actual Pre-Heresy Marines!

Kanluwen wrote:

Brother SRM wrote:

Nightbringer's Chosen wrote:Why is pre-heresy off-limits?

GW is saving that for when they really, seriously, absolutely need money. Think of it as their one "Get out of jail free" card if things ever go bad.

Er, no. It's because they don't want to bring the stuff out, period. They've been talking for a long time about a potential set of campaign supplements being released--with a full model line.

They don't want to bring stuff out period - but have been talking for long time about supplements being released?

Huh?

Pyriel- wrote:Has there ever been any talk about leading the fluff forward into 40+k?

Kanluwen wrote:Yes, but then it's always shot down because it'd end up with armies being discontinued or model lines having to be shut down.

That would be great - and could EASILY be done without invalidating anyone's army!

BOTTOM LINE:

No one knows WHY GW hasn't done this yet.

It remains a mystery...

Alpharius wrote:

Brother SRM wrote:

Nightbringer's Chosen wrote:Why is pre-heresy off-limits?

GW is saving that for when they really, seriously, absolutely need money. Think of it as their one "Get out of jail free" card if things ever go bad.

Kanluwen wrote:

Brother SRM wrote:

Nightbringer's Chosen wrote:Why is pre-heresy off-limits?

GW is saving that for when they really, seriously, absolutely need money. Think of it as their one "Get out of jail free" card if things ever go bad.

Er, no. It's because they don't want to bring the stuff out, period. They've been talking for a long time about a potential set of campaign supplements being released--with a full model line.

They don't want to bring stuff out period - but have been talking for long time about supplements being released?

Huh?

Meaning they don't want to bring anything out before making a supplement.

Alpharius wrote:

Pyriel- wrote:Has there ever been any talk about leading the fluff forward into 40+k?

Kanluwen wrote:Yes, but then it's always shot down because it'd end up with armies being discontinued or model lines having to be shut down.

That would be great - and could EASILY be done without invalidating anyone's army!

BOTTOM LINE:

No one knows WHY GW hasn't done this yet.

It remains a mystery...

It really couldn't be that easily done. Unless, say, you make it Warhammer 40,001.
Example:
If the Eye of Terror expands(which it would over time, gradually), then Cadia is pretty much guaranteed to be gone--which means a decline in the Shock Troop Regiments out there, which in turn leads to all kinds of malarky getting into the Imperium proper.

SoloFalcon1138 wrote:The super-heavies were around since 2nd edition Epic. They were just impossible to model until Forge World started.

Completely impossible... except for Mike Biasi Studios, Forge World USA, Epicast, Armorcast.

So, in fact, not impossible at all, just not done by GW.

FW can't make Pre Heresy kits? Somebody better e-mail forgeworld then so they don't accidentally release the SM Infantry kits shown in the last 2 sneak peeks....

FW started out making items to fill the gaps in GW's line- LR Vanquisher/ Eldar Wave Serpent
FW also made some home grown items that would be cool as scenario objectives- Trojan
FW also made items that were in the fluff, but GW likely had no intentions of doing themselves- Aircraft/ Super Heavies
FW branched out more and makes items that are already in GW's plastic line- WE Berserkers

Seems to me FW can pretty much make whatever they want. Likely there's some guidance from Big Daddy GW, but the only idea I can think of that got squashed was the mis-identified Elysian Lander that is suspected to actually be the Storm Raven (skimmer in the BA dex).

Alpharius wrote: That would be great - and could EASILY be done without invalidating anyone's army!

BOTTOM LINE:

No one knows WHY GW hasn't done this yet.

It remains a mystery...

Especially when there's so many great intracompany synergies with the HH books right now. Which happens to be the most popular series that BL has ever produced.

My understanding is that any time they're asked about HH supplements at events, the designers flat-out say there's no plans for anything like that. It's not even a "would be really interesting, but..." answer. Just "no." It's absolutely baffling to me.

Only things I can figure is that a) they think it'd confuse customers and/or b) they think sales of HH kits would somehow cannibalize their regular kit sales. Of course, my response to that (after "are you nuts?!?") is that selling someone a SM tactical box and an upgrade sprue gets them more money than just a SM tactical box. I mean, it's all just miniatures, right? And I'd also tell them that there's no better way to go back to the well (i.e. vets with existing SM armies) than a HH supplement. I know I'd probably start a Luna Wolves army, and I've got a whole army of SM sitting in cases that I haven't touched in years...

Forge World is a wholly owned subsidiary of GW. As with most such things, they can always talk to GW if there's a line they want to cross, and I'm sure someone looks through planned products at some point.

gorgon wrote:

Alpharius wrote: That would be great - and could EASILY be done without invalidating anyone's army!

BOTTOM LINE:

No one knows WHY GW hasn't done this yet.

It remains a mystery...

Especially when there's so many great intracompany synergies with the HH books right now. Which happens to be the most popular series that BL has ever produced.

My understanding is that any time they're asked about HH supplements at events, the designers flat-out say there's no plans for anything like that. It's not even a "would be really interesting, but..." answer. Just "no." It's absolutely baffling to me.

Only things I can figure is that a) they think it'd confuse customers and/or b) they think sales of HH kits would somehow cannibalize their regular kit sales. Of course, my response to that (after "are you nuts?!?") is that selling someone a SM tactical box and an upgrade sprue gets them more money than just a SM tactical box. I mean, it's all just miniatures, right? And I'd also tell them that there's no better way to go back to the well (i.e. vets with existing SM armies) than a HH supplement. I know I'd probably start a Luna Wolves army, and I've got a whole army of SM sitting in cases that I haven't touched in years...

It's probably all that "brand identity" stuff that corporate sorts like to talk about but leave the rest of us baffled. That's why they pulled the Inquisitor miniature of Kal Jerico, "cross-contamination of intellectual property" or something, can't mix Necromunda and Inquisitor, customers are too dumb to cope. The customers were saying "WOW, a 54mm Kal Jerico that's EPIC WIN!" but GW said "hell no, can't let this make money - can it."