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Made in gb
Warning From Magnus? Not Listening!





Rampton, UK

 ekwatts wrote:
 Rayvon wrote:
So which GW do you work at ?


I'm going to put this in the "can't actually refute my argument so try and say something snide" category.

Have a nice day.


Instead of the bad joke category ?


Cheer up !
   
Made in gb
Devious Space Marine dedicated to Tzeentch




Manchester, England

 Rayvon wrote:
 ekwatts wrote:
 Rayvon wrote:
So which GW do you work at ?


I'm going to put this in the "can't actually refute my argument so try and say something snide" category.

Have a nice day.


Instead of the bad joke category ?


Cheer up !

Oh fair enough, sometimes the rampant negativity is infectious.

   
Made in gb
Warning From Magnus? Not Listening!





Rampton, UK

Im just not very amusing !
   
Made in no
[DCM]
Necron of Munda





 ekwatts wrote:
 Sabotage! wrote:
That said, even buying two boxes of the GW teams is usually cheaper than the decent 3rd party teams (some of which are pretty awesome), and gives you extra models for conversions and what not.


This is the absolute end point, and destroys any further argument on the subject.

The sprues are packed. GW were only ever going to support Blood Bowl with plastic if it were cost effective. The way you make it cost-effective is a single sprue that is then doubled up in a box. As far as positionals vs the number of models you can physically fit onto a sprue, they have to make a choice. GW aren't necessarily trying to fleece anyone: A full roster consists of 16 models, and they weren't going to fit that number on the sprue, particularly not for teams who have odd-numbered positionals. Which means that, with the boxes priced at retailers between £16-£18, most people were likely to end up buying another box anyway. In that situation, they aren't going to put four blitzers in a box since that way you'd end up with eight if you doubled on the box. Whereas eight linemen? Fine, after all, you can paint a few up as Journeymen!

And, to reiterate, buying two boxes still ends up cheaper than buying the same (or far fewer) miniatures from literally any other manufacturer, even GWs own old metal team boxes (that consisted of 11 players) were, I believe, nearly £40 themselves before Specialist Games were folded.

And if your complaint is down to duplicate sculpts... It's a duplicate sprue. You were always going to be disappointed so complaining is redundant.

I've been through the bad old days and the current state of Blood Bowl is basically what I always wanted. You can buy and assemble multiple teams with filled rosters, primarily in plastic, for the cheapest price in the history of the game. Are we really complaining about a treasured old game being resurrected and ending up in a better state than it has ever been in at any other stage in its history?

Sure the sprues are good. But have you seen the numerous discussions here, on boardgamegeek, talkfantasyfootball or other places where new players ask how to create their team using only the 12-player team from box/starter set? The first thing they're met with is that the team is incomplete and handicapped. You need 4 blitzers. Nobody plays without 4 blitzers. Ever. So they are then given friendly advice about either using some paint to try and distinguish some line positionals as blitzers or convert some.

I think this would be a great opportunity to sell perfect boxes, not a box that would leave so many new players handicapped.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/11/19 16:51:24


 
   
Made in us
Napoleonics Obsesser




MN

My family has been playing the game just fine with the 12 man boxes in our home league.

<shrug>

So, is the Undead the last team of 2018?


Do you like Free Wargames?
http://bloodandspectacles.blogspot.com/ 
   
Made in nl
Moustache-twirling Princeps




We'll find out soon enough eh.

 Easy E wrote:
My family has been playing the game just fine with the 12 man boxes in our home league.

<shrug>

So, is the Undead the last team of 2018?



It's possible for a human being to remain perfectly alive on prison rations, that doesn't mean they're ideal. "It's functional" is not equivalent to "it's as good as it could be".

I need to acquire plastic Skavenslaves, can you help?
I have a blog now, evidently. Featuring the Alternative Mordheim Model Megalist.

"Your society's broken, so who should we blame? Should we blame the rich, powerful people who caused it? No, lets blame the people with no power and no money and those immigrants who don't even have the vote. Yea, it must be their fething fault." - Iain M Banks
-----
"The language of modern British politics is meant to sound benign. But words do not mean what they seem to mean. 'Reform' actually means 'cut' or 'end'. 'Flexibility' really means 'exploit'. 'Prudence' really means 'don't invest'. And 'efficient'? That means whatever you want it to mean, usually 'cut'. All really mean 'keep wages low for the masses, taxes low for the rich, profits high for the corporations, and accept the decline in public services and amenities this will cause'." - Robin McAlpine from Common Weal 
   
Made in us
Napoleonics Obsesser




MN

 Yodhrin wrote:
 Easy E wrote:
My family has been playing the game just fine with the 12 man boxes in our home league.

<shrug>

So, is the Undead the last team of 2018?


It's possible for a human being to remain perfectly alive on prison rations, that doesn't mean they're ideal. "It's functional" is not equivalent to "it's as good as it could be".


Edited: Neither News or Rumors.....

Is the next team going to be spring 2019?


Do you like Free Wargames?
http://bloodandspectacles.blogspot.com/ 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




 Easy E wrote:
Is the next team going to be spring 2019?


Assuming they stick with the stated goal of 4 teams per year, yes. Also, I've been putting together a list of what teams are left from the old edition, and I thought others might enjoy the list (along with my analysis of which ones seem likely next):

-High Elf
-Wood Elf
These are the two teams left from Death Zone Season 1 that still haven't been made yet. We have to assume they're near the top of the list, even if plans have changed a fair bit since that book came out. Plus, one assumes that there's enough similarity with the existing elf teams that they might have an easier time creating them now that they've already done two.

-Necromantic Horror
-Khemri Tomb Kings
-Vampire
The undead teams. Since Shambling Undead is coming, Necromantic Horror is likely not far behind (since it shares two positions) and the others would make sense as well, thematically.

-Lizardmen
-Ogre
-Chaos Dwarf
In order from most to least likely, these are the rest of the teams that had an associated Warhammer Fantasy army, and therefore have more brand recognition and less creative work to create than the rest.

-Amazon
-Norse
-Halfling
These three have never had a Warhammer Fantasy army, so their creative design has to be done almost entirely from scratch. I think they'll very likely leave these 3 for last, but they might surprise us.

That's 11 teams, so we should have them all before the end of 2021, assuming they keep to this schedule. Then they can start working on new teams; personally, I'm hoping for Khorne, Tzeentch, and Slaanesh (it always seemed weird to me that Nurgle got a team and the others didn't) and wouldn't be suprised to see Bretonnia or Slann (since pseudo-official rules already exist for them). After that... maybe Sea Elves? Fimir? Stormcast? No reason they can't dig deep into Warhammer's past or borrow from Age of Sigmar when expanding the Blood Bowl universe.
   
Made in gb
Been Around the Block





Based on their interactions on the Twitch streams etc. they are fairly aware of which teams would be popular/make sense. From my experience, Lizardmen are basically the one with the most support (to the extent that it's almost a meme on official BB chat) with Wood Elves being close behind (plus they see a lot of time on the table as they're a top tier Team).

High Elves need doing but are probably the least enjoyed of the 4 Elf races. After that... who knows? They want to mess around with a few rosters (ala the new Goblin positionals) which Halflings and maybe Ogres seem prime candidates for. Maybe even Vampires.

They have categorically said no Stormcast. To the eternal joy of the majority.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/12/02 21:48:36


 
   
Made in gb
Devious Space Marine dedicated to Tzeentch




Manchester, England

Baxx wrote:
 ekwatts wrote:
 Sabotage! wrote:
That said, even buying two boxes of the GW teams is usually cheaper than the decent 3rd party teams (some of which are pretty awesome), and gives you extra models for conversions and what not.


This is the absolute end point, and destroys any further argument on the subject.

The sprues are packed. GW were only ever going to support Blood Bowl with plastic if it were cost effective. The way you make it cost-effective is a single sprue that is then doubled up in a box. As far as positionals vs the number of models you can physically fit onto a sprue, they have to make a choice. GW aren't necessarily trying to fleece anyone: A full roster consists of 16 models, and they weren't going to fit that number on the sprue, particularly not for teams who have odd-numbered positionals. Which means that, with the boxes priced at retailers between £16-£18, most people were likely to end up buying another box anyway. In that situation, they aren't going to put four blitzers in a box since that way you'd end up with eight if you doubled on the box. Whereas eight linemen? Fine, after all, you can paint a few up as Journeymen!

And, to reiterate, buying two boxes still ends up cheaper than buying the same (or far fewer) miniatures from literally any other manufacturer, even GWs own old metal team boxes (that consisted of 11 players) were, I believe, nearly £40 themselves before Specialist Games were folded.

And if your complaint is down to duplicate sculpts... It's a duplicate sprue. You were always going to be disappointed so complaining is redundant.

I've been through the bad old days and the current state of Blood Bowl is basically what I always wanted. You can buy and assemble multiple teams with filled rosters, primarily in plastic, for the cheapest price in the history of the game. Are we really complaining about a treasured old game being resurrected and ending up in a better state than it has ever been in at any other stage in its history?

Sure the sprues are good. But have you seen the numerous discussions here, on boardgamegeek, talkfantasyfootball or other places where new players ask how to create their team using only the 12-player team from box/starter set? The first thing they're met with is that the team is incomplete and handicapped. You need 4 blitzers. Nobody plays without 4 blitzers. Ever. So they are then given friendly advice about either using some paint to try and distinguish some line positionals as blitzers or convert some.

I think this would be a great opportunity to sell perfect boxes, not a box that would leave so many new players handicapped.


Yes, I have seen the incessant complaining that goes on on internet forums. None of the whining does anything to challenge what I've already pointed out about the boxes and, specifically, the makeup of the sprues themselves, though.

A "perfect" box would cost about the same as buying two of the current boxes. Except it wouldn't because it just wouldn't be cost-effective and therefore would never be produced and therefore wouldn't exist.

Blood Bowl was never going to be brought back unless it could be made the best possible game for the slimmest possible price. You're effectively complaining that it exists at all.

Thing is, I get it. I'd love the boxes to be a one-stop shop for a complete team roster. But I'm also living in the real world where adults don't always get what they want, and also a fairly well prioritised list of wants in which "being able to play a modern, well-supported version of Blood Bowl with affordable plastic miniatures and good supplements" is higher up that list than "getting the exact specific thing I wanted, with no regard to how economically realistic that might be".
   
Made in tw
Dakka Veteran





What/whens the next event that would preview or reveal tue next team?

   
Made in us
Napoleonics Obsesser




MN

Zetan wrote:
 Easy E wrote:
Is the next team going to be spring 2019?


Assuming they stick with the stated goal of 4 teams per year, yes. Also, I've been putting together a list of what teams are left from the old edition, and I thought others might enjoy the list (along with my analysis of which ones seem likely next):

-High Elf
-Wood Elf
These are the two teams left from Death Zone Season 1 that still haven't been made yet. We have to assume they're near the top of the list, even if plans have changed a fair bit since that book came out. Plus, one assumes that there's enough similarity with the existing elf teams that they might have an easier time creating them now that they've already done two.

-Necromantic Horror
-Khemri Tomb Kings
-Vampire
The undead teams. Since Shambling Undead is coming, Necromantic Horror is likely not far behind (since it shares two positions) and the others would make sense as well, thematically.

-Lizardmen
-Ogre
-Chaos Dwarf
In order from most to least likely, these are the rest of the teams that had an associated Warhammer Fantasy army, and therefore have more brand recognition and less creative work to create than the rest.

-Amazon
-Norse
-Halfling
These three have never had a Warhammer Fantasy army, so their creative design has to be done almost entirely from scratch. I think they'll very likely leave these 3 for last, but they might surprise us.

That's 11 teams, so we should have them all before the end of 2021, assuming they keep to this schedule. Then they can start working on new teams; personally, I'm hoping for Khorne, Tzeentch, and Slaanesh (it always seemed weird to me that Nurgle got a team and the others didn't) and wouldn't be suprised to see Bretonnia or Slann (since pseudo-official rules already exist for them). After that... maybe Sea Elves? Fimir? Stormcast? No reason they can't dig deep into Warhammer's past or borrow from Age of Sigmar when expanding the Blood Bowl universe.


A good list!

I have also always wonder why Nurgle gets a team and no one else? Seems like something that could change. If I was them, I would do three "established" teams a year and 1 new one just to keep things spicy. However, I have no idea what that means on the back-end of the pipeline.

I wonder if we will see Wood and High Elves so soon after Dark and Elf Union teams? I feel like they would need to rename the game Elf Bowl!

Do you like Free Wargames?
http://bloodandspectacles.blogspot.com/ 
   
Made in us
Battle-tested Knight Castellan Pilot





LA

More than any other team I'd like to see chorfs, simply cause out of all the old teams they are the one I remember the most with those big hats. I don't see how they are unlikely, they seem pretty popular and are powerful and it would be easier to fit them one a plastic sprue than ogres or even Norse cause norse has a lot of unique units and they can't all make it onto one sprue.

The demand for Lizardmen seems to be high though and id expect them and one of the remaining elf teams to help fill out what might be four at most new kits next year.

 
   
Made in us
Hooded Inquisitorial Interrogator





 Thargrim wrote:
More than any other team I'd like to see chorfs, simply cause out of all the old teams they are the one I remember the most with those big hats. I don't see how they are unlikely, they seem pretty popular and are powerful and it would be easier to fit them one a plastic sprue than ogres or even Norse cause norse has a lot of unique units and they can't all make it onto one sprue.

The demand for Lizardmen seems to be high though and id expect them and one of the remaining elf teams to help fill out what might be four at most new kits next year.


I definitely think we will see Chaos Dwarfs sooner than later. They are one of GW's more unique creations and they don't have plastic equivalent from which they are easily converted.

My bets next year are: Wood Elves, Lizardmen, Chaos Dwarves, and either High Elves or Necromantic.

   
Made in tw
Dakka Veteran





I hope the lizards come soon. I'd jump into blood bowl with a lizard team, as none of the others really interest me.

   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

I think lizard men are going to depend on whether there's any work going on on the Seraphon for AoS,

they're not going to want to put out lizard men who don't fit the upcoming aesthetic if there are changes planned, and they're not going to want to bloodbowl versions before the AoS release,

but if they're not planning anything at the moment a bloodbowl release for the team makes sense as one of the next batch

 
   
Made in gb
Devious Space Marine dedicated to Tzeentch




Manchester, England

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
I think lizard men are going to depend on whether there's any work going on on the Seraphon for AoS,

they're not going to want to put out lizard men who don't fit the upcoming aesthetic if there are changes planned, and they're not going to want to bloodbowl versions before the AoS release,

but if they're not planning anything at the moment a bloodbowl release for the team makes sense as one of the next batch


Not sure that they're as restricted as that, to be honest. Blood Bowl is an alternate universe equivalent of the old Warhammer, which makes it two steps removed from Age of Sigmar, and there are already a couple of differences between Blood Bowl teams and their AoS equivalents. The undead team, for instance, has quite different looking ghouls. The humans have no real visual equivalent in AoS currently. Neither do the Dwarves. If anything, I'd say that Blood Bowl adds an extra layer on top in that the models need to look somewhat equipped for a (violent) sports game rather than combat, which is yet another step away from AoS and even ye olde Warhammer. That means they can kind of do almost anything they like in terms of the designs just so long as a few specific design cues are followed. Hence why some of the teams so far have been so visually interesting/different.

Other than perhaps the Nurgle team, I wouldn't say there's been much confluence between the AoS releases and Blood Bowl releases.

If anything, a Lizardman team is going to be a spin on "old" Lizardmen of the Warhammer universe, not whatever redesign may occur at some indeterminate point in the future for the AoS iteration.

All that said, I'm really looking forward to what they might do with the Chaos Dwarf team. I like their Blood Bowl II video game representation, so I'm hoping something along those lines.
   
Made in gb
Been Around the Block





 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
I think lizard men are going to depend on whether there's any work going on on the Seraphon for AoS,

they're not going to want to put out lizard men who don't fit the upcoming aesthetic if there are changes planned, and they're not going to want to bloodbowl versions before the AoS release,

but if they're not planning anything at the moment a bloodbowl release for the team makes sense as one of the next batch


Whilst there's a healthy dose of logic here, I'm not sure AoS will have any influence on the design aesthetics of any Blood Bowl release (it hasn't really so far). They're their own set of sculptors and designers and seem keen to retain links to 2nd/3rd edition. Plus I think there's a tacit understanding that a lot of Blood Bowlers are grumpy old men/Longbeards who will curse into their dice cups and chunter for hours at the mere hint of AoS creeping into Blood Bowl.

Don't hold me to it but I suspect we'll see Lizards for Blood Bowl long before anything for Seraphon and I'd be surprised if they deviated too much from the 'classic' look of the team. Most of their designs haven't (Dwarves and the Chaos Blockers are the only exceptions of note I can think of right now). Andy already said that Chorfs will retain the silly hats for example.

They've pulled some surprises but I'd put (modest) money on WElves and Lizards as 2 of the 4 for 2019. After that, who knows? HElves wouldn't be a shock. Wildcard of Halflings or Norse.
   
Made in us
Revenant Pirate Crew






We saw high Elves and dark elves without AoS releases for those, and the dwarves don’t look like either of their current dwarf lines.

 
   
Made in ca
Fresh-Faced New User




 ekwatts wrote:
Baxx wrote:


Yes, I have seen the incessant complaining that goes on on internet forums. None of the whining does anything to challenge what I've already pointed out about the boxes and, specifically, the makeup of the sprues themselves, though.

A "perfect" box would cost about the same as buying two of the current boxes. Except it wouldn't because it just wouldn't be cost-effective and therefore would never be produced and therefore wouldn't exist.

Blood Bowl was never going to be brought back unless it could be made the best possible game for the slimmest possible price. You're effectively complaining that it exists at all.

Thing is, I get it. I'd love the boxes to be a one-stop shop for a complete team roster. But I'm also living in the real world where adults don't always get what they want, and also a fairly well prioritised list of wants in which "being able to play a modern, well-supported version of Blood Bowl with affordable plastic miniatures and good supplements" is higher up that list than "getting the exact specific thing I wanted, with no regard to how economically realistic that might be".


Couldn't they have just made boxes with 2 sprues of 8 models and just upped the price by %25? I would pay that.
I see your point and I largely agree with you, it might not be so simple as making the sprue bigger and bumping up the price a little. Part of me feels like they just went with how they packaged the old metal boxes without considering it despite the change at the end there with the 16 man human team.

At this point I haven't actually bought any of the new teams because I am waiting for them to fill out the starting roster for the teams I want
   
Made in us
Battle-tested Knight Castellan Pilot





LA

JimmyWolf87 wrote:
 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
I think lizard men are going to depend on whether there's any work going on on the Seraphon for AoS,

they're not going to want to put out lizard men who don't fit the upcoming aesthetic if there are changes planned, and they're not going to want to bloodbowl versions before the AoS release,

but if they're not planning anything at the moment a bloodbowl release for the team makes sense as one of the next batch



Whilst there's a healthy dose of logic here, I'm not sure AoS will have any influence on the design aesthetics of any Blood Bowl release (it hasn't really so far). They're their own set of sculptors and designers and seem keen to retain links to 2nd/3rd edition. Plus I think there's a tacit understanding that a lot of Blood Bowlers are grumpy old men/Longbeards who will curse into their dice cups and chunter for hours at the mere hint of AoS creeping into Blood Bowl.

Don't hold me to it but I suspect we'll see Lizards for Blood Bowl long before anything for Seraphon and I'd be surprised if they deviated too much from the 'classic' look of the team. Most of their designs haven't (Dwarves and the Chaos Blockers are the only exceptions of note I can think of right now). Andy already said that Chorfs will retain the silly hats for example.

They've pulled some surprises but I'd put (modest) money on WElves and Lizards as 2 of the 4 for 2019. After that, who knows? HElves wouldn't be a shock. Wildcard of Halflings or Norse.


How long ago did Andy mention the chorfs? If that decision for the hats has already been made it may indicate they are at the very least in the design process already. Seeing as how the legion of azgorh is now the age of sigmar look I could see them backtracking to a more nostalgic blood bowl style for them.

 
   
Made in es
Dakka Veteran





https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-NL/Blood-Bowl-Orc-Booster-2018

Orc booster!
   
Made in gb
Devious Space Marine dedicated to Tzeentch




Manchester, England

pogey wrote:
Couldn't they have just made boxes with 2 sprues of 8 models and just upped the price by %25? I would pay that.
I see your point and I largely agree with you, it might not be so simple as making the sprue bigger and bumping up the price a little. Part of me feels like they just went with how they packaged the old metal boxes without considering it despite the change at the end there with the 16 man human team.

At this point I haven't actually bought any of the new teams because I am waiting for them to fill out the starting roster for the teams I want


No, because they're a business and they want you to buy two boxes/a box and the forgeworld boosters/star players/big guys.

Sprue sizes are mostly fixed to a few different overall frame sizes. The Blood Bowl frames are the average "troop" size they use for most infantry. Any bigger and you're getting into vehicle territory. It's far, far cheaper to design a single sprue and cast it twice than it is to design two different sprues.

And it's not as if GW don't pack those sprues as full as they can. Some might not see the need for the coins and markers and extra balls that come on the sprues, but you can understand why they're there. And, even though the sprues are pretty stuffed, you STILL have people complaining at the lack of options like different heads and so on.

I don't see a comparison with the old metal boxes. They came with the absolute bare minimum: 11 players, and comparatively cost more than two of the current plastic boxes cost. That's not counting the tokens, balls and starting rosters that the new boxes come with.

The new boxes are about selling a box of plastic figures that will give a player a starting lineup that they can use with the Blood Bowl boxed game. They aren't about giving you a min/maxed tournament-ready team. There are few teams, really, that you could conceivably fit the usual preferred 16-man lineup into a regular infantry box using a repeated sprue. You might manage it with one team but be wildly off with another. So GW went for a setup for each box that worked in terms of replicating enough linemen, while still trying to provide a team roster on the included rules sheet that would be competitive with the other team boxes. NOT with other peoples pro-level tournament-ready teams.
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK


 
   
Made in de
Dakka Veteran





BB boxes are so affordable compared to other GW stuff that I don't flinch at the thought of buying multiples. I'd rather have more models and specialists per box of course, but a double box team is still less than some AoS or 40k infantry boxes you'd have bought for conversions back in the metal days. Most full teams with big guys and positionals should be less than a RRP video game, which is often the upper limit people want their skirmish band/board game add-on/BB team to be.
I love converting, though, so a second Ork team and a few bits as well as a few cuts is more attractive to me and cheaper than the resin booster.


The only flop is IMO the goblin team. They really should come with 16 in a box or have secret weapons on the sprue, getting less gobbos than Undeads and the same as Orcs or Rotters is bananas.
   
Made in nl
Longtime Dakkanaut





zamerion wrote:
https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-NL/Blood-Bowl-Orc-Booster-2018

Orc booster!


I'm not going to pay €31,- for three resin alternate poses and a useless Thrower. Why noy include a fourth Blitzer instead of that fething Thrower?? This seems like a pretty useless product.



 
   
Made in no
[DCM]
Necron of Munda





Hmm, buy 4 orc resin FW booster packs to fill out my 2 orc teams? More than 120€.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/12/07 14:23:40


 
   
Made in us
Napoleonics Obsesser




MN

At least they are alternate sculpts.

Do you like Free Wargames?
http://bloodandspectacles.blogspot.com/ 
   
Made in gb
Hard-Wired Sentinel Pilot





Is that two linemen, a blitzer and a thrower? :S
   
Made in gb
Multispectral Hsien





Gosport, UK

JWBS wrote:
Is that two linemen, a blitzer and a thrower? :S


2 black orcs, a blitzer and a thrower.
   
 
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