hey are this guys good or not?

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**an00bis**

Hey guys today i got a Blood Angels Baal Predator with all flamers and i also got a Grey Knight Brother Captain Stern and 5 grey knight terminators.. they reason i got them is because i traded some fantasy trolls and i got the pred and the termis for about 20 bucks. So i was wondering would this guys work in my SM army.. im doing the Ultramarine chapter.. or in a more specific term.. Tyrannid Hunters. Any advise would be greatly appreciated

**Battle Brother Lucifer**

You can't use the Baal pred unless you use the BA codex.

**Valkyrie**

Lucifer is right, the Baal is useless unless you decide to go for the Blood Angels Codex.

**Battle Brother Lucifer**

Why did you make another thread that you should have known would get locked, rather than acknowledge and answer me here?

**an00bis**

kinda new to this whole thing i didnt know and also had no responses lol im sorry if i messed up something.

**camboyaz**

Heres what you should buy in terms of Codexs, they cost 25 bucks each a my FLGS So only buy two at the most:

Codex SM----- Ok units good for new players.

Codex BA----- Good units but need some exprince

Codex Demonhunters/ Grey knights----- Big no-no

Units suck

Codex Orks----- Not SM, but it is fun to command hundreds of greenskins

**JSK-Fox**

Camboyaz, by saying that GK suck, you are currently approaching flame war territory at 5 million lightyears per second.

They don't suck, it's just that they're old.

**Vene**

Is it really that hard to make a Baal predator into a vanilla pred?

**AbaddonFidelis**

vene
not if you can bum a 2nd turret from your buddy....
and didnt put flame throwers on it.

**Lord Rogukiel**

JSK-Fox wrote:They don't suck, it's just that they're old.

Agreed, but unforunately, being older is the current trend to being "worse" than newer

The baal predator is only for Blood Angels, but I'm sure you could convert it into a vanilla pred

**AbaddonFidelis**

Grey Knights definitely suck.
Yeah the game has seen a definite spike in power level over the last year.

Even the 3.5 chaoc codex, which is so popular, would get absolutely spanked by an army out of the newer chaos codex, and the newer chaos codex is near unplayable now.
AF

**Sanctjud**

So it's time to turn to Warmahordes??...

As for 3.5 dex... if it were still legal, I'd still be all over it rather than the Space Werewolves/Space Vampire bandwagons.

**Eternal Newb**

So if the army has an older codex, they suck?

Don't tell that to the Dark Eldar players.

**Sanctjud**

For the Eternal Newb, that was a good relpy.
/Joker clap!

**AbaddonFidelis**

Newb
grey knights were never good, honestly. not even back in the day. unless they were fighting demons specifically. which is the 1 and only thing they were ever supposed to do.

It's not because the codex is old, although that certainly doesn't help. sisters are old too and their codex is awesome.
AF

**Grey Templar**

Correction...

Grey Knights fare poorly due to a lack of reliable anti-tank.

as an Ork or Tyranid player there isn't much that you can face that will be tougher to beat then GKs.

GKs are hurt by the current meta-game and the difficulty to get anti-tank NOT their rules.

GK terminators are the 2nd best terminator unit in the game. just behind TH/SS terminators and only because their SS are 4++ in CC only.

GKs pay 6 extra pts per terminator for a Str6 power weapon, Fearless, and shrouding(which can work, but requires finess)

Justicars are the only unit that is overpriced in the DH codex.

Codex: GKs(due sometime in Feb) will bring them in line to be a good army.

**Eternal Newb**

AbaddonFidelis wrote:Newb
grey knights were never good, honestly. not even back in the day. unless they were fighting demons specifically. which is the 1 and only thing they were ever supposed to do.

It's not because the codex is old, although that certainly doesn't help. sisters are old too and their codex is awesome.
AF

While they may not be competitive, doesn't mean they are bad.

Only bad thing, like has been said, is their lack of Anti-Tank with the Mech heavy environment.

**labmouse42**

There are a number of ways you can convert the pread.
1) You could buy a turret or gun on ebay. One of the bit vendors will sell them I'm sure. Horde O Bits are who I buy lots of bits from.
2) You could scratch build a gun and cut off the TL/AC on the pread and repace it with your own barrel.
3) You could find someone who bought the vanilla pred, and trade out the other gun from them. They probably used the AC gun, so you would be stuck with the TL LC

As far as the termies...if you can take their arms off, I would look at replacing them with arms bought from bit vendors.

**RisingPhoenix**

Grey Templar wrote:Correction...

Grey Knights fare poorly due to a lack of reliable anti-tank.

Surprisingly this is exactly the problem that Orks suffer from.

Anyway, my personal suggestion would be to choose a paint scheme that you really enjoy, and paint the army to be a chapter army of a made up chapter. Then you can field it as Space Wolves, Space Marines, and Blood Angels (not to mention Grey Knights (ew), Dark Angels (double ew), or Black Templars (really?)), which is always fun. Really, you need slightly different load outs for each one, but it's more like you purchase 80% of a core, then choose codex specific units to flavor.

I've never seen a point in painting Ultramarines, Blood Angels, or Space wolves if you don't really love those color schemes (and it doesn't sound like you have some great attraction to Ultramarine Blue (does anyone?). Better to have some fun flexibility, when starting out. Can always decorate the unit with wolf pelts and blood chalices if you decide you like one of those over the others (or stick a giant stick up their ass if you decide to do a counts-as for Ultramarines).

**AbaddonFidelis**

Newb
well when I say bad I mean non competitive... they are the same to me... its good if it wins its bad if it doesnt...

if you're understanding it in a different way please disregard...

it's not just that their anti tank sucks, though it does... it's that at 25 points a man a grey knight is horribly overpriced. he's worth like 18 max for what he is... which is just a funny looking marine with a storm bolter.
AF

**Vene**

AbaddonFidelis wrote:vene
not if you can bum a 2nd turret from your buddy....
and didnt put flame throwers on it.

So, no, not really hard at all.

**notabot187**

I would agree with the 18 points if it was just the storm bolter, as I believe a storm bolter is really worth about 3 points, but the WS 5 S6 and true grit is worth a further price increase. I would say about 20 points is fair. 20 points puts them at the same level as noise marines, which aren't nearly as good (more to do with chaos being screwed over in so many ways)

I think the problem is GW got into some strange thought process where assault 2 weapons were amazing and you should pay a huge premium for them. Look at eldar unit costs vs dark eldar for an example.

**AbaddonFidelis**

yeah I forgot about str 6. 20 sounds better.

**Sanctjud**

AbaddonFidelis wrote:Newb
well when I say bad I mean non competitive... they are the same to me... its good if it wins its bad if it doesnt...

A minor note to all but AF, just because it does not 'win' doesn't make them bad. There are other reasons why a unit fail (dice, poor placement, generalship, expectations, etc)...which have nothing to do with the unit themselves.

The Asstermies in a Raider that AF loves so much will fail, it's not a matter of if, but when.
Plenty of death stars fail, hence the name death star. So I think his explanation doesn't really hold up, but oh well.

**Grey Templar**

He has also never seen one of my GK lists.

he has also never seen the BA with allied GKs list that won our local 'Ard Boyz and went on the semi-finals.

GKs + FNP = utter

**Sanctjud**

I'm gonna guess he's gonna reply the answer is plasma.
Obviously that's the moment the Shrouding roll comes up triple 1's

**Grey Templar**

at least if that happens he can't blow himself up

if your within rapid fire of GKTs with FNP your already dead.

**RisingPhoenix**

Obviously the biggest weakness of GKs is their incredible point cost combined with the fact that their survivability just doesn't justify it.

I'm not surprised you can do sick things with them and the ally rule, which honestly GW should have manned up and said was not in effect anymore.

I'm surprised you don't see more lists running around with basic storm troopers, for 10 points they're actually pretty shooty, and the rest of the army can make up for the punch they lack. They're a more solid basis for shenanigans than Firewarriors, in point of fact. But I think most GK players like the 'few strong targets' feel, and Stormtroopers are not that.

**Sanctjud**

I find the Stormtroopers are vital to a balanced GK list. They bring the special weapons to cover just about everything the GK's don't do too well. Though short ranged and squishier.

**AbaddonFidelis**

yeah allies are going away shortly. honestly I'd just wait out that army, play against it the best I could with what I have, but not make any major modifications to my list...