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I've not yet played a game of 8th edition and could really appreciate some feed back on this list. I thank you in advance for your time and consideration. This list is intended to for use at my FLGS and will be played casually. That being said, I am very interested in your thoughts on how the elements work together and what kind of things I may have failed to consider.



Warriors of Chaos 2500 pts


Lord
270+ Sorcerer Lvl 4 (No clue how to equip. I am considering the lores of shadow, death, and slaanesh. Blood of Tzeentch looks cool.)
Hero
260 BSB, Banner of the Gods Chaos Glory (All peeps within 6 inches to become stubborn, and causes terror)
I am thinking of putting an exalted in a chariot w/ the book of shadows here. I have also considered infernal puppet and blasphemous amulet, this should hurt on a chariot base.


Core
1018
366 The Blender: Chaos Warriors (18) MOK, Halberds, Shields, Musician, Standard?
410 The Chopping Block: Chaos Warriors (20) MOT, Shields, Music, Blasted Standard
242 Marauders (40) GW, MOK, Music, Standard
72 War hounds (12) flees

Special
308 Dragon Ogres (4) Great Weapons

Rare
205 Hell Cannon


I am currently wondering about a few things in relation to WOC.

1. ) What lores are worth while int his kind of list? I am currently thinking about Shadow, Heavens, Slaanesh, and Tzeentch but am open minded.
2.) What's up with the M.0. Slaanesh? People are continuing to trash it, but it doesn't it continue to grant immunity from the panic checks caused by magic, shooting, other units breaking? I hear people say it's not worthwhile and I have to imagine I there is something I don't understand here.
3.)What do you all think about taking standards? When is it helpful, and when is it a waste of points?
4.) Would I be a jerk to run 2 Hell Cannons at 2,500 points?


Thanks for taking a look. I appreciate your insight.

The issue with the Mark of Slaanesh is that WoC units generally have high LD anyways, and the mandatory BSB means they aren't going to turn tail and run as soon as a couple cannonballs come calling. MoS just didn't get any better in 8th ed, while MoK and MoT DID get better, and MoN is still a solid choice.

Your never a jerk for running 2 hellcannons at any points level. Its the only shooting WoC have.

I personally like my lvl 4 with MoT for the bonus to cast and the ward save.

I like MoS on units of M. Horsemen but thats about it.

Standards are a must in most blocks of infantry and for certain scenarios.





Your list is looking solid for a first attempt.

I would run my lvl 4 with the puppet, some sort of basic ward save, and since i use MoT, the 3rd Eye for fun.

Your BSB needs to be protected in some way as he is the 2nd biggest target for sniping outside of your lvl 4. I would give him a ward save, as well as the pylactery.

Casper wrote:

Your BSB needs to be protected in some way as he is the 2nd biggest target for sniping outside of your lvl 4. I would give him a ward save, as well as the pylactery.

He can't take any of that gear if the BSB goes with the magic standard. I agree with Casper though- go with the gear instead of the banner. The leadership re-rolls are still great. If you're dead set on taking that banner, I think the best you can do is Mark of Tzeentch, hand weapon shield, for a 3+/5+ to the front...

I'm going to suggest taking more characters that are less expensive. You can also drop 2 of the Tzeentch Warriors and a Dragon Ogre without losing too much effectiveness,

powerclaw wrote:I'm going to suggest taking more characters that are less expensive. You can also drop 2 of the Tzeentch Warriors and a Dragon Ogre without losing too much effectiveness,

Recomendations?

Glimpse The Void wrote:

powerclaw wrote:I'm going to suggest taking more characters that are less expensive. You can also drop 2 of the Tzeentch Warriors and a Dragon Ogre without losing too much effectiveness,

Recomendations?

Personally I'd keep the 4th drogre, his attaks (and his S5 stomp) will be much appreciated, as will his nice absorbent wounds so his buddies get to swing (last)

I like everything in the army itself so far, good looking core with obligatory hellcannon support and drogres as 'monstrous infantry special slot toy choice'. The BSB I agree is much better served with defensive gear, given his importance to the army beyond carrying a drunkenly expensive banner. If you do want the BotG so badly, then like RZ said, MoT + shield is as good as it's gonna get for him.

Your simplest level 4 gear, that uses blood of tizz (I like it too), is going to probably be something like:

Sorcerer Lord - level 4, talisman of preservation, blood of tzeentch = 345

Here are my thoughts on your questions:

1) I will applaud you for taking Heavens or Slaanesh, as I've heard of nobody apart from some skinks taking Heavens, and I only know one dude who has looked into just what kooky things the Lore of Slaanesh can do. Yes, it's still largely limited to armies without loads of ItP troops, but I think in 8th we're seeing less reliance on ItP because of the rerolls that BSBs allow. Shadow is an interesting and technical lore, I think there are a lot of neat and nasty things you can do to help your boys out. And Tzeentch, well, I still don't really like it - and my wizards have to take it, since I've been playing Warriors of Tizz for a year now - because of its limited and obvious offensive capabilities, but it has a lot going for it with flicker, pandemonium and the fickle gateway.

2) I don't think it's a terrible investment, but the BSB reroll and really the changes to fear have made it much much less mandatory. Now everybody has hard-ons for Kr0n and Tizz (poor Nurgs!) ... Because it's so cheap it isn't bad at all, it's just that the Red and Blue marks have become either more viable or lost their negatives (frenzy bait for Red, psych vulnerability for Blue).

3) With the mere 25 point bonus for capturing standards, combined with the Blood & Glory scenario, I'm thinking that standards should probably be taken by anything that expects to be in combat. The only real change for WoC might be marauder horsemen, which before were silly if taken with standard, but now could actually use the boost to beat other (lower I, lower WS) light units. Though it's hard to say what marauder cav are for in 8th - I've dropped both of my units until I figure it out!

4) I ... actually think so, but nobody is going to agree with me. The hardest opponent in my gaming club for my skaven to face is the WoC guy, and his primary strength is that he wrote 'Hellcannon' twice on his army list (In all seriousness the guy isn't a bad general and his list has a LOT of other nasty combos and smart choices in it, but hellcannons got so jacked up in 8th that I struggle to take down one, let alone two. And I'm not just some bitter non-chaos player - I've decided to drop the hellcannon I've used for a year of 7th for a giant, because I'd like some variety and, frankly, more of a challenge.) A hellcannon, recall, is not simply a stone thrower, but a S5(10) auto-panic stone thrower attached to 5-8 ablative wounds. That's unbreakable. That has 5-8 attaks, plus 1-6 thunderstomps. I think the one saving grace of the thing is that it still misfires

On the list, I think after gearing up your level 4, perhaps gearing down the BSB to some protective magic items, you should consider duplicating one of your core choices. You should have the points to take a 4th block of something, any of those units would do well. Also I'd get full command on whatever unit your characters are going in, to keep them from challenging themselves into a bloodthirster or something.

- Salvage

That banner is stupid expensive, but then again, so are these blocks of troops. Its cool to get rerolls, but stubborn turns these blocks from "tough to deal with" to "nearly invincible". It is difficult for me to imagine what, at equal points, would be as devastating (other than another hellcannon.....) All that being said, it is tempting to spend the points on another character instead. I'm certainly going to recruit someone to ride in the 2nd chariot. Perhaps a lvl 2? Cheap combat hero with the Book of secrets? This may be easier to figure out after several games.

I think I'm going to decide between lores of heavens or shadow. I love the basic shadow debuff. But if I could get the heavens spell that causes me to reroll 1s it'd be crazy. I'd love the protection from shooting. I think a big fat comet would be even crazier in 8th edition than in 7th. Especially with all the people bringing extra warmachines.

And as far as MOS, people should not be so quick to turn there nose up at not taking these checks at all, as oppose to rerolling them. I am not considering it only because the blender and chopping block units have specific roles in mind already. Does the MOS protect you from fear and terror? I know that both of these effects have been nerfed, but I'd hate to see a unit run and panic other units. I know everybody is talking BSBs but I've seen battle reports where this kind of thing still happens. I don't know, I'm just not convinced it's useless. It just doesn't really seem to fit my list.

I have no idea how to use fast Calvary. I have the models to field up to 20 chaos hounds (thanks to my SW army) and 10 Marauder horsemen. But I'm having a hard time understand what the role of these units is in 8th edition. I know they can hunt down war machines. I cheap unit of 12 hounds can disrupt a units ranks, if they are unmolested. However, if someone does waste there time on the dogs, I pity the poor sap that ignored one of my armies actual threats. I just don't even know what to take here, or what to do with it once I do.

I feel wrong not having a unit of chaos knights in the list. I own 10 of the models, and they are the reason I began this army a decade ago while I was in highschool.

I think I'm going to stay away from the 2nd hell cannon before 3k points. It just makes me feel dirty thinking about it. If i get pwned a few games I may change my mind about this.

Boss Salvage makes great points, as usual! I also agree about a more defensive build on the BSB. I like your list, it's different than many I've seen.

What are your thoughts on the dragon ogres? I'm planning to take a fair number, but I was thinking to go with AHW. 4 Drogres with AHW will be putting out 16 attacks + 4 stomp at strength 5, which imho is enough to put a dent in almost any block. With GWs, they're only putting out 12 attacks, and you're paying more for strength 7. Also, off the top of my head, I believe stomp will only happen at their base strength of 5 (I could be wrong about that). So are the GW needed / helpful?

I guess it depends on what you're facing, but I'm seeing lots of numbers so far in 8th, and not so many large or high toughness things for some reason. I can see you keeping these guys with GWs to deal with the big stuff, but they're going to be a better "take-all-comers" unit (which I think you need, given how few units you have) with AHW.

Those are my thoughts on that one little issue of your list since it's something I'm pondering myself! Honestly, I'm also going AHW because I'm a points chopper, and like to fit as many bodies as I can into my lists... which means that GWs got taken out to the chopping block and cut down to AHW

I have to agree with you about the AHW ogres. They are more all purpose. GWs will be good against other monsterous infantry. I'm thinking blocks of treemen, trolls, and ogres. There are also a few steam tanks running around my FLGS, from what I've seen, though I have yet to play a single game of 8th edition.

In all honesty, I'm converting my Drogres, and am using the irongut great weapons because they look pimp. I may end up going with "counts as AHW.

As far as the stomp, it does not benefit from the GW.


I can't help but wonder if knights might do more for less. This may end up comind down to being an issue of coolness vs. function.

I have the same dilemma with the GW conversion. I'll be using black orc bodies to convert mine with cold ones, and they look awesome with the axe raised over their head.

I will probably just lash another axe to their back for the AHW, though! And of course, model some with one in each hand for variety

RiTides wrote:
I will probably just lash another axe to their back for the AHW, though! And of course, model some with one in each hand for variety

Genius. I am using the new coldones bodies as well, but popping the iron gut bodies on them. So, you can see why I am compelled to use those gigantic face smashing great weapons. In some ways, I wish I had thought to use black orc or chaos warrior torsos, but nothing says "beef cake" like an irongut.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I wonder how hard it would be to magnetize the arms for the option.....

yet more bits to buy. This hobby gets more and more expensive all the time. I'm not sure I can afford to go to games day anymore after some of the purchases I've made this week.

Oh right, I'm totally in favor of ahw drogres. 20 S5 attaks + 4 S5 stomps out of 4 models is a lovely thing, particularly when they have a mere WS4 behind them. Counting obvious great weapons as two hand weapons is kinda bleh to me, but glue weapon #2 to back and I'm cool

I think 2x 6 warhounds is a possibility, as 6 models get to attak a war machine at once and those puppies can probably win it, for a mere 36 points. 1x 12, I'm not sure what you're thinking, flanking for great victory? Dogs are pretty easy to beat about the muzzle and drive off

Oh, and more power to you on the BotG, a tizz dude with shield is pretty survivable, and in a unit with the blasted standard he's pretty comfy vs shooting. You might get some MR into the unit too - on the level 4 for example - and that'll protect him from magic snipes too. Chaos Friends ftw!

- Salvage

I was definatly thinkink 2x6 on the dogs, though as I admited, I have no idea what I'm talking about. You guys have any experinces w/ fast cav in the new edition?

What is the "MR" your talking about Boss?

Magic Resistance, which provides a ward vs magic damage that stacks with the Mark of Tzeentch. So if the level 4 has MR(2) but no MoT he gets a 5+ ward vs magical sniper spells directed at him, while his MoT friends (and the BSB) get 4+ wards vs magic. Since you have the points you might think about a level 2 tizz back up caster with the collar or something.

I'm thinking something like this for characters:

Sorcerer Lord - level 4, talisman of preservation, blood of tzeentch, ironcurse icon = 350

Exalted Hero - MoT, BSB, banner of the gods, shield = 275
Sorcerer - MoT, level 2, collar of khorne, 25 points in arcane items = 190

There's room for more items on the s.lord and gifts on everybody, but I think this is a decent start. Also gets you some tizz spells on top of your shadow / heaven dude.

- Salvage

You all have convinced me not to take the crazy banner. I plan on taking 2 chariots, what do you guys thin of putting a character in one of them? I think a shadow mage may be a good choice, as the hex's can be cast while in combat.

Thoughts?