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Well, I'd love a white scars esque squad in my army. I love the idea of having 9 bikes charge into an enemy who's just taken 14 S4AP5 twinlinked shots, 4 S7AP2 shots, and 3 S5 AP4 hits.
then, they take a further 17 WS4 S4 hits, and 4 WS4 S4 power weapon hits.
how much is all that?
300 points.
Expensive, maybe. but bikes would be worth it
have a look here:
Lets run some numbers:

N: Vs. MEQ. [Ws4, S4, T4 W1 I4 A1 3+]
First, the bolters. [14 shots]
We hit 9.33 times.
Twin linked means we end up hitting a further 3.11 times.
So, total, we hit 12.44 times.
We wound 6.22 times
in turn, they save 4.14 times.
We've just killed 2.08 marines, which is at the very least 32 pts worth of model, we've just made back 10% of our price.

Then, the two plasma guns
shoot 4 shots,
hit 2.67
wound 2.23 times.
Now, we've got 4.31 wounds caused. thats at least 64 points, over 20% of our price.

finally the heavy bolter.
3 shots
hit two times
wound 1.33 times
in turn, he saves 0.44 of them.
he take a furtherm 0.89 wounds.
Now we've caused 5.20 wounds. thats around 25% of our price.

So. they've taken about 5 wounds. the squads just lost 50% of it's price.

Carrying on from that.
7 Bikers, 1 biker sergeant, 1 attack bike. [Add 1+ to Attacks for sarge and attack bike, 1+ to wounds for attack bike] Remember we count as T5.
So, 17 WS4 S4 T5 I4 Sv 3+, and 4 Power WS4 S4 T5 I4 Sv3+
versus
4 Ws 4 S4 T4 I4 Sv 3+, and 3 Ws4 S4 T4 I4 Sv 3+ Power weapon attacks.

The bikers cause
8.50 hits
4.25 wounds
save 2.83 of them, taking
1.42 wounds
Then, the sergeant causes
2 hits
1 unsaveable wound.
In total, causing 2.42 wounds [round down to 2.] OR, 7 wounds.

In return, they take..
4 attacks,
2 hits
0.67 wounds
of which we save 0.45.
leaving 0.22 wounds.

3 attacks
1.5 hits
0.5 wounds.

= 0.72 wounds, maybe one wound.

So, they've dished out 7 wounds, an equivalent of 126 points, 42% of their points value
And only taken around one.

So, I've just shown the decimation of one squad.
the main reason why this becomes irrelevant? they're useless for another turn while they continue the combat.

The other reason that they're so unused is their extreem priceyness.

Think about it:
8 bikers = $152.
The attack biker is a further $40.
That one little squad is probably the most expensive squad. it costs you $192! A baneblade is less!

I think this is how GW stop people revealing it's true potential.

*Yawn , SM Bikes are boring looking. At most , there are bikes + bolters yay....

There is also the "French GT player" angle.

You run the risk of not getting a model on the table (That russian guy had khan, and his bikers could outflank. Why didn't he?)

Bike armies are boring to look at. Unless they are black widows. Black widow bikes kill more than any other.

Captain Solon wrote:The other reason that they're so unused is their extreem priceyness.

Think about it:
8 bikers = $152.
The attack biker is a further $40.
That one little squad is probably the most expensive squad. it costs you $192! A baneblade is less!

They're only $110 if you import them yourself. Then again, a Baneblade is only $93 if you do that.

I dislike the models quite strongly, as I do most of the bikes (including jet bikes) for all the races. The only possible exception is the FW Nob Warboss, other than him I'd never buy a bike.

Personally I love Ork Warbikers. I'll be playing 5 in our small game this week.

Bullfrog wrote:I dislike the models quite strongly, as I do most of the bikes (including jet bikes) for all the races. The only possible exception is the FW Nob Warboss, other than him I'd never buy a bike.

How do you get a Nob Warboss? Isn't that like a Veteran Sergeant Captain? Or an Aspiring Champion Lord?

No idea, I don't game at all so I don't really know how these things would work. In which case I suspect it's just a Warboss.

Yeah.. Sounds like someone at ForgeWorld neglected to read any background on Orks.

I agree, I dont like Bikes, but only because of the look. Bikes are a fine weapon if handled right.

Eyclonus wrote:Yeah.. Sounds like someone at ForgeWorld neglected to read any background on Orks.

Oh it's entirely possible that I'm just calling it the wrong thing.

It would be apt to not draw such attention to oneself in mine presence...

well, I've never thought of them as boring to look at.

I've seen a 87-strong biker army, it took up half the table, but it was AWESOME.
He had a total of 9 biker squads, completely painted, and a command squad/captain mounted on bikes.

tally it up:

it's two thousand dollars for that alone;

they were all armed as I mentioned [costing nearly 2,700 points + 580 pts for commandsquad/captain.]

he also had 3 vindicators, and 3 terminator squads.

he totaled 117 models and three tanks, most of which were bikes.

I've run it, that entire army is 2,600 dollars, and 5005 points.

I must admit, it was very impressive. it was White scars 6th company.

still. WAY OVERPRICED.

Love bikes, i use them as my main army, althoguh i run them all with meltas as the combi bolters do the work vs infantry.

moving and shooting to full effect is just bliss, though even with a sgt with powerfist and melta bombs I don't lik going into hand to hand unless I reckon I can wipe the enemy unit out in 1-2 combat phases.

As for cost, buy the ravenwing box sets, it work sout much chaper and means you can swap in land speeders incase you want some typhoon luncher shots or heavy bolter spam (Something tingly about having 18 ML shots or 54 heavy bolter shots)

Bullfrog wrote:

Eyclonus wrote:Yeah.. Sounds like someone at ForgeWorld neglected to read any background on Orks.

Oh it's entirely possible that I'm just calling it the wrong thing.

Nope you got it right: http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Orks/ORK-WARBOSS-ON-WARBIKE.html

And as an Ork player I can tell you that the background on that is fine as you can mount your warboss on a bike, he just can't also wear mega armour or "he would probably fall off a lot".

Also I just not much of a fan of the marine bikes appearance, I agree to an extent that they look a little boring but mostly I just find the maries look really weird/awkard sitting on them.

Duce wrote:As for cost, buy the ravenwing box sets, it work sout much chaper and means you can swap in land speeders incase you want some typhoon luncher shots or heavy bolter spam (Something tingly about having 18 ML shots or 54 heavy bolter shots)

A great suggestion. Buying a Ravenwing Battleforce and two bikes gets the price below $100 AUD, plus you get a free Land Speeder.

They aren't used mainly because of the cost, if you want a bike army buy ravenwing BFs.

Also take a look at steleks fasnt 'N slow marines for Ard boyz at yesthetruthhurts.com its nothing but bikes and rifleman dreads.

That and as said before, bikes look boring unless converted well.

I'd agree with that, they're not boring exactly, I just don't like the models. Awkward is a decent way of describing them, they just don't look right to me.

I love bikers.
I am not in love with the models GW has.

So I use 'count as'.
I do have biker bikers, but I mix in WFB: Chaos Knights into the mix and use BloodCrushers as Attack bikes.

i think the whole idea of motercycles in combat is lame. about the only time it "makes sense" is with Orks and only because they realy don't have to make sense. really, who is going to fight in hand to hand CC from a motercycle and who can realisticly shoot accuratly while riding one. i know the argument of cool game universe vs reality... but i thinks its enough to turn alot of poeople off of bikes. i know it does foe me

Motorcycles make sense to me at any rate. They're cheaper than a car, easier to maintain, and if you're a careful driver they're not that much more dangerous. I have no balance on bikes though (or rather, I should say, not enough to trust my life on a motorcycle), or I'd probably go with one myself.

Motorcycles for mobility are fine, I assume Jason is complaining about motorcycles as a weapons platform and as a melee platform.

As a weapons platform, the Ork bikes and Eldar and Dark Eldar jetbikes make the most sense. Orks don't aim their bikes so much as they throw a whole lot of flak downrange and see what hits, while the jetbikes would probably be piloted like a plane or helicopter to strafe targets.

As a melee platform, you either need a bike that can knock enemies out of the way without losing its balance, or a melee weapon that won't get stuck in your target. Power weapons, chainswords and Dark Eldar scythes all fulfil the same purpose: to let you kill something as you pass and keep on going.

I have no balance on bikes though (or rather, I should say, not enough to trust my life on a motorcycle), or I'd probably go with one myself.

That being said, imagine trying to swing a sword or shooting a gun from one while its moving. while bikes may be good for transportation purposes, they are completely impractical for combat regardless of cost or ease of maintinance. if they were a good idea, dont you think you would see them in combat today.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

AlexHolker wrote:
As a melee platform, you either need a bike that can knock enemies out of the way without losing its balance, or a melee weapon that won't get stuck in your target. Power weapons, chainswords and Dark Eldar scythes all fulfil the same purpose: to let you kill something as you pass and keep on going.

I agree to a point, but... if that is the case, then why do they get locked into close combat?

Eldar jetbikes FTW. I love anti-gravity stuff.

As a weapon or melee platform, imagine them as ranged cavlry, simmilar to conquistadors.

Solon
at least on dakka alot of people are playing bikes. I feel that their best use is to deliver special weapons attacks.... in close combat they're more or less silly. 1 attack a piece? ugh. One big advantage to them is that they can't get their ride shot out from under them; a squad in a rhino that loses its rhino has lost alot of its effectiveness. Bikes don't have this problem.
AF

The only bikes I'd ever use are plague bikers. T6 FTW

I don't field Space Marine bikers because I don't like the models. If and when new models come out, I'd definitely try out a bike squad or two.

I've learned to love my bikes. I typically field 28: three full squads of 9 plus a Captain on his own to make them all scoring units. Combat squading is great if it isn't a KP mission.

T5, 3+ save, nimble enough to dogpile anything that is open, turbo boost away from trouble or to get into a gunlines face... many options to play with. Lots of melta + Vulkan for twin-linked madness!

The models may not be pretty, but I used to play old school Necrons... now that was an ugly army!

As for the cost, I got mine off of ebay. No one else wanted this guys primed black bike army that didn't have shoulderpads so I got it dirt cheap. They needed a lot of work, but the base model was there. Keep and eye out for the deals.

To 'add' to AF's post
Combat is not ideal, BUT, the important issue is that you should be setting the pace, so if combat is imminent, you should be the one charging.