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I *hope* this is where this question goes, as it's somewhat painting related, but not really. Is/was anyone on here a GW 'Eavy Metal painter? If so, my younger cousin wowed by the White Dwarf and GW box set pics asked me something I wasn't quite able to answer.

Is being an EM Painter a fulltime job? And if so, what's the pay for something like that? And how do they go about choosing people for that? Is it invitation? Or do you have to have history with GW? Audition with current work? Honestly, that's my dream job (*sigh* sadly, my wife would probably disapprove...) , but wanted to know ever since I was asked... I see a lot of talented artists on Dakka as well, and I wouldn't be surprised if any of you were/are part of the team.

Thanks in advance!

Oh sweet! I'm no longer a "Mindless Spore Mine"! I'm a "Hungry Ripper"! Level-up!

I'm no expert but I'm pretty damn sure that it's a full time job with a poor wage...

I was thinking the same thing- more like 'for the love of the game' (er, miniatures) than for the salary. But I'd like to know the estimates for it. But by posting this, it makes it seem like we're riding on those guys for slaving- don't get me wrong.

Much love to the EM painters throughout the years- I started reading White Dwarf and playing GW in 1993 and have tried following the standard/ copying it to the best of my ability (not successfully in the beginning, but still). ALL of the stuff I see in there (especially McVey's dioramas in the past- one that came out right when the Lizardmen came out as a new army, I think- holy cow) still has be feeling inspired at the work.

I don't know about 'Eavy Metal painters, but I know for 100% certain that Privateer Presses' catalog painters, who do those gorgeous models for their box art and website, get paid minimum wage in Washington state, which is about $8.25/hour. And they'd get less if it were legal to pay them less.

Not an Eavy Metal painter, but from what I've gleaned over the years...

HF Izanagi wrote:Is being an EM Painter a fulltime job?

Yes.

And if so, what's the pay for something like that?

Not very much.

The payback is in the 'prestige'... a lot of Eavy Metal painters go on to set up their own painting studios, where they can charge somewhat for their name, and are helped out by the skills developed through the GW work.

And how do they go about choosing people for that? Is it invitation? Or do you have to have history with GW? Audition with current work?

From memory, they periodically advertise for anyone interested in the job. You would need to send in samples of your work, and be either living in, or prepared to move to Nottingham.

Not a "Dream Job" eh.
I suppose it does help starting a painting studio.

poipo32 wrote:Not a "Dream Job" eh.

Not from what I've heard. It's quite demanding, the pay's lousy, you're largely stuck painting whatever is put on your desk, in whatever scheme you're told to paint it in, and then you get the occasional weirdness, like the period during (IIRC) the early 2000's (marked by a noticeable decrease in the quality of the paint-jobs coming out of the studio) when they were allegedly told to deliberately stop painting to their top standard, because somebody in a suit thought that having their promotional models look too good might be discouraging the kiddies...

You might try sending an inquiry to the guys that run Army Painter. They used to be on the heavy metal team.

Great line of products.

insaniak wrote:

poipo32 wrote:Not a "Dream Job" eh.

Not from what I've heard. It's quite demanding, the pay's lousy, you're largely stuck painting whatever is put on your desk, in whatever scheme you're told to paint it in, and then you get the occasional weirdness, like the period during (IIRC) the early 2000's (marked by a noticeable decrease in the quality of the paint-jobs coming out of the studio) when they were allegedly told to deliberately stop painting to their top standard, because somebody in a suit thought that having their promotional models look too good might be discouraging the kiddies...

Wasn't there also a shake-up in the Heavy Metal team make-up at that time though?

I paint figs for a living and make some cash. I'd like to make more cash, but hey, I get to paint figs for a living and have my hobby as a job.

So the 'for love of the game' comment is spot on.

Wow! Thanks for all the feedback, guys. I'd agree w/ Grognard (with one condition below, which probably kills my 'Eavy Metal 'dream job' idea) - I'd love to paint minis for a living- It's fun, and I can pass entire days without knowing it while I do it. If there was money to make in it and I could do everything I do now, I'd drop it all and focus on that.

However, I can see where that might be a problem going into the EM team or commission painter- you don't get to choose what you want to paint. No offense, but I've had my fill of SMs and Orks I just have no interest in. And those 'lose track of time days' I had on minis I favored, not just anything plonked in front of me. If I had to do a model I really didn't care for, it would probably show.

Wow... I guess I should have kept reading WD in 2000... I would have loved to hear more about this shakedown and lowering standards... anyone have any links that I can see the quality change? And did they up the quality standard again? I suspect they have, as the NMM articles for Sanguinor and stuff are pretty friggin' sweet.

All I remember is the early-mid 1990s style of painting for the codices/rulebooks was much different than it was now- the "masterclasses" were still top-notch... And on the website, the Masterclass Competition of Harry the Hammer still makes my ego sag... holy mother... I'd kill for the ff-white marbled Harry figure one of the "contestants" made.

HF Izanagi wrote:However, I can see where that might be a problem going into the EM team or commission painter- you don't get to choose what you want to paint. No offense, but I've had my fill of SMs and Orks I just have no interest in. And those 'lose track of time days' I had on minis I favored, not just anything plonked in front of me. If I had to do a model I really didn't care for, it would probably show.

So currently you have a job in which you don't have to do anything you don't want to?

I'm a designer. If I accepted work based on what I wanted to do then I would be sleeping in a gutter before long.

I can see commission painting being a great job to have, the issue of not getting to do what you want to do all them time wouldn't make any difference to that in my eyes. As you will get that in any job surely.

Painting as a job can kill your enthusiasm for the hobby.


Never make a hobby a job... It ceases to be fun then.

Oh no, I didn't mean that... I'm an engineer and J-to-E trans/interpreter for a Japanese company... This isn't exactly what I want to do- I love the language aspect, but the other stuff I could care less for.

What I mean was that the 'dream gig' idea kinda loses its flavor because I somehow had it in mind you got to choose what you wanted to paint as part of the EM team, much the way I choose my hobby minis out now.. the call back to reality came from everyone (and your post).

And I totally agree- I'd love to do commission painting for a living if money wasn't an issue. But I know there'd be some projects I'd love more than others (as with any job, like you said).

Big P, only if you let it.

I find that commission painting has broadened my skills. I get to paint figs that I otherwise wouldn't have bought for myself, and I welcome the challenge.

Hi there HF,
I have only just seen your old ost here so I hope you are still around!
I am a former 'Eavy Metal painter. I worked as a member of the team from late 1992 to around 2000-ish. I don't know what the circumstances are now but at that time we were recruited from Golden Demon winners, internal staff and recommendations from shop staff and others on the front line. We were paid minimum wage but the benefits were good (free minis, discounts, trips, etc.) and it was a great stepping stone to other careers within the company.
During my time there I met some great people, made some lifelong friends and had wonderful experiences and eventually became the head of the team. I got to do promotional tours, attend events, got involved with the creative process (helping to decide on new colour schemes, etc.), judged Tournament painting and the Golden Daemons and helped to train the next generation of painters.
Great times.
True it wasn't all wine and roses. Yes, we had to paint what we were told to paint (although it was rarely a chore) and I sometimes didn't agree with certain decisions made by management. We were sometimes woefully underused (yes, the whole 'paint it to lesser standard so as to not discourage the fans' was a real policy for a while-thankfully it didn't last too long...) and we were sometimes dreadfully mismanaged by idiots who had no idea what the potential of the team was.
On the whole though, my experiences there, at a pivotal time in my life, were massively positive. It was a dream job, most of the time. When I left, due to things going on in my personal life, I left with many, many happy memories.
(I then spent many years in the wilderness before returning to my first love -painting toy soldiers- as a freelance painter a couple of years ago but that's another story...)

It's still a dream job.

I would note the Threadomancy but for such an interesting post I just hit exalt instead!

Shame about losing your Chaos Centaur I remember being blown away by it after seeing it in WD some two decades (really that long?) ago.

Thanks for posting.

They actually had a vancancy not long ago on their careers website for exactly this role - although they dont post the wage, it would most likly be towards the lower end ( most likly saleried to get around miniumim wages) i would envision it being around £12-£15k tops for long hours with little creative input.

Actually, when adjusted for inflation, £12,000 is roughly on a par with what I got when I started back in 1992...

 insaniak wrote:
Not an Eavy Metal painter, but from what I've gleaned over the years...

HF Izanagi wrote:Is being an EM Painter a fulltime job?

Yes.

And if so, what's the pay for something like that?

Not very much.

The payback is in the 'prestige'... a lot of Eavy Metal painters go on to set up their own painting studios, where they can charge somewhat for their name, and are helped out by the skills developed through the GW work.

And how do they go about choosing people for that? Is it invitation? Or do you have to have history with GW? Audition with current work?

From memory, they periodically advertise for anyone interested in the job. You would need to send in samples of your work, and be either living in, or prepared to move to Nottingham.

Many are solicited after winning Demons from what I understand.

Would they be able to take commission work on the side while on the EM team?

I know some jobs (like engineers) anything design/created while under contract is considered the companies property even outside of work hours. Just wondering if this would be the same.

Great post sublimebrushwork, very interesting reading!

I guess that highlights another perk of the 'Eavy Metal guys - a lot of them have moved on to other things on the strength of their time in the GW studio. Sometimes big things as well; The Perry Brothers have their own fairly sizeable business, Mike McVey (who hit a million dollars with his Kickstarter) etc.

A lot of these guys were icons back in the day and had a celebrity status, I think the names still carry a hell of a lot of weight with the generation that were young back then.

Vossyvo you are dead right about the whole 'everything you do is owned by us' thing. It is a standard element of employment contracts for anything involving creative work and GW was (is) no different. It was never really heavily enforced but doing paid work for others was definately a no-no. I was hauled over the coals once for doing it and kept it very quiet after that...
It is true that the 'Eavy Metal name brought with it some prestige (and a strange type of fame sometimes-signing autographs and doing personal appearances at shops is very strange...) and most of the painters go on to greater things-often within the company as that was the structure and process (although, Pacific, the Perry's were never part of 'Eavy Metal and their side business was always running alongside their GW work -I don't know what special arrangement they had that meant they could do so) -Kev White went on to found Hasslefree, Dave Thomas and Martin Foottit are sculptors, Neil Hodgson is a GW artist, etc.

By the way, for you oldies, here's my introduction page from White Dwarf 159, way back in 1993. Such a fresh-faced young lad...

I used to know one of the EM painters once upon a time, they were recruited from in-store where they were working as a key-timer. From what they told me, it was poor wages, high pressure, but a lot of fun. Their other half worked for GW too so it was pretty much 24/7 GW for those two

Who was that?

This always interested me, as I almost got a job at GW through my painting when a key timer position came up, my interview was with the local manager and his boss, (both of which are good friends still some 9 years later!) just talking about previous experience, skills I have and enjoyment for the hobby (this was when knowledge of the 2 systems was still a preferred requirement) I showed off my Marneus Calgar, a wood elf lord and something else I cant remember.

In the end I didn't get the key timer position as they wanted me as a trainee manager straight off the bat, but issue was I had a year of uni to go, and it would have meant moving probably to Northampton or such from Aberdeen! So I turned it down, and the pay was poor for a managerial role in retail tbh.

However I always stuck with the painting and have entered a golden demon and got a finalist, this year I am hoping for a demon with my entry, can but hope

Scary that the pic of the eavy metal page from WD was when I started the hobby at the tender age of 11, getting my first squad of blooad angel devestators and a metal dreadnought, in the polystyrene cases, good times!

My next plan is commission stuff but need to look into all the ins and outs of what could be seen as a second job by taxman!

I've gone for a few jobs at GW now. I don't think I'll be applying again unless someone there were to get in touch directly, make it very much worth my while.

Sad to say, I think I've actually outgrown it - I make more from freelance commissions now than they offer to pay... so the choice became 'paint loads of different stuff doing your own hours for more money' or 'paint loads of similar stuff during office hours for less money and have your opinion deemed irrelevant'.

Comparing this to my dealings with Mantic, who have taken some constructive criticism of what they do on board and still given me more work. There's an openness to improvement there that's refreshing. I'd work for Mantic in preference at the drop of hat. Much nicer people to deal with.

I've not done any studio work for Warlord Games yet (might drop some speculative portfolio stuff in there once I'm set up in my new studio), but they're probably nicer too.

I think its a bit like any other job you send in a CV (pics of your minis) I think they interview after that and your asked to do some painting in front of them. There was an interview with one of the team a few years go in WD about applying for the job.