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Hi,

I would like to get your opinions for the question to the Fluff: Are the assault cannons of the Dreadnoughts and the terminator are the same model or are there any differences between these both weapons like size or caliber ?

I have found so far no reasonable answer to this issue. There is always the missing statement to the caliber of the cannon to compare it with other weapons. If I compare this with real weapons from today, then I think that a Terminator would wear something like this: Minigun

And a Dreadnought, I could imagine a similar weapon like this: Avenger

So what do you think about it? I think a Dreadnought can carry certainly a heavy weapon as a terminator.

Greetz
Arkon

Looking at the models themselves, they share similar design features but the Dred Assault cannon is bigger, bigger caliber (or so it seems) and has shorter barrels. So the Dred AC could be a scaled up version of the Termie one, or vice versa.

I think your Minigun & Avenger is a fairly reasonable approximation with todays firearms.

I would assume that, as Terminators bear tactical dreadnought armor, they probably carry a tactical variant of the AC.
I could see someone arguing that, as the LRC and LRR boast twin-linked assault cannons with the same technical stats of the termie assault cannon (and they could easily carry any type of cannon carried by a dreadnought), there may be an all purpose Assault cannon design contained within the STC.
At the same time, the lascannons, though similar in stats, are also given separate design variant names. I'd guess you're most likely right, with the assault cannon being similar, but of slightly different design.

I dont think you meant it like that, but I lol'd at your yoda style title

If I recall and this is failing memory at its best, the 2nd ed armory book said they were basically the same except the Dreads cooling systems were much more efficent and it had a larger round capacity.
But in terms of calibre/size/etc no difference.

Back in 2nd edition, I know the Dreadnought Missile Launcher was 'better' in that it fired multiple missiles (using the 'sustained fire dice'), with the possibility of a 'jam'.

I can't remember if the Dread assault cannon was different...

But really, I agree, it should be!

Alpharius wrote:Back in 2nd edition, I know the Dreadnought Missile Launcher was 'better' in that it fired multiple missiles (using the 'sustained fire dice'), with the possibility of a 'jam'.

I can't remember if the Dread assault cannon was different...

But really, I agree, it should be!

The 2nd ed. Dreadnought Assault Cannon was the same as the Terminator Assault Cannon with the exception that it ignored "Jam" results on the Sustained Fire Dice.

The fluff went something like: Assault Cannons fitted to Dreadnoughts have a feed system that ejects dud rounds automatically so they are incapable of jamming.


OT: Kind of off-topic, but the 2nd ed. Dreadnought Multimelta could be fired either as a Multimelta (a blast weapon, back then) or as a Heavy Flamer.

NuggzTheNinja wrote:

Alpharius wrote:Back in 2nd edition, I know the Dreadnought Missile Launcher was 'better' in that it fired multiple missiles (using the 'sustained fire dice'), with the possibility of a 'jam'.

I can't remember if the Dread assault cannon was different...

But really, I agree, it should be!

The 2nd ed. Dreadnought Assault Cannon was the same as the Terminator Assault Cannon with the exception that it ignored "Jam" results on the Sustained Fire Dice.

The fluff went something like: Assault Cannons fitted to Dreadnoughts have a feed system that ejects dud rounds automatically so they are incapable of jamming.


OT: Kind of off-topic, but the 2nd ed. Dreadnought Multimelta could be fired either as a Multimelta (a blast weapon, back then) or as a Heavy Flamer.

Ignoring a jam was a nice benefit, and good call on the Multimelta/Heavy Flamer thing!

It might be slightly off topic, but it is a good subject to bring up - Dreadnought mounted versions of heavy weapons SHOULD have differences when compared to the man portable versions.

And las cannons should smash holes in armor. S10 las cannon pls.

I would imagine that in the 40000 universe the dread one is bigger and has a larger calaber judging by the size comparison of the models. Unfortunetly this isn't simulated in the game. I would love things like the Baal predator and Dreadnoughts had stronger assult cannons.

They do have stronger Assault Cannons. They're just not strong enough to rate an increase in Strength. Think of each increase in Strength as being an order of magnitude and it makes more sense, representationally.

Yeah, I agree, Dreadnought versions should be at least different, if not better. Like plasma cannons not overheating on vehicles and such.

Also, that Avenger looks awesome...in a horrible, oh my god that's real...sort of way!

Oh, they should definitely have a Cyclone Missile Launcher instead of a regular Missile Launcher. But otherwise their Heavy Weapons are more effective because they can move and fire If you want more effective Dreadnought Weapons, though, you should take a Venerable Dreadnought. That BS5 makes the Multi-Melta something beastly, for example..

Oh yeah, I didn't think about that actually...that ruins that fantasy!

Nurglitch wrote:Oh, they should definitely have a Cyclone Missile Launcher instead of a regular Missile Launcher. But otherwise their Heavy Weapons are more effective because they can move and fire If you want more effective Dreadnought Weapons, though, you should take a Venerable Dreadnought. That BS5 makes the Multi-Melta something beastly, for example..

Good points, but I do admit to missing the 'improved'/different versions that the Dreads of yesteryear used to have...

GW has already introduced variant weapons with the Imperial Guard Codex (Exterminator Autocannon, Hydra Autocannon), as well as different weapons with identical characteristics with the Space Marine Codex (Typhone and Cyclone Missile Launchers). It seems like the Design Studio is settling on an equilbrium between different for the sake of difference, and sameness for the sake of game-play.

I'd assume they're the same caliber, really.

After all, Terminator armour (Tactical Dreadnaught armour, to give it its full name) was designed, with a lot of goals in mind. One of those was that squads could benefit from the same kind of firepower available to dreadnoughts.

The dreadnought variant just looks bulkier because the barrels have been shortened to compensate for the less flexible joints on the dread itself.

Well, I look at it kind of like the Tau Railguns. The ones on the Hammerhead and Broadsides have the exact same str and AP even though the one on the Hammerhead is like 5x larger. That's just the way it is I guess.

Maelstrom808 wrote:Well, I look at it kind of like the Tau Railguns. The ones on the Hammerhead and Broadsides have the exact same str and AP even though the one on the Hammerhead is like 5x larger. That's just the way it is I guess.

The Hammerhead one can do Submunition shot though.

Ah yes, the "Rule of Cool" scale it does much things up abit.

Surtur wrote:And las cannons should smash holes in armor. S10 las cannon pls.

Do you seriously want Lascannons to be S10?

I'm sure Guard would LOVE that.

Space Wolves have that effectively vs. Vehicles...
Or any other lascannon wielding models with access to tank hunters.

Acardia wrote:

Maelstrom808 wrote:Well, I look at it kind of like the Tau Railguns. The ones on the Hammerhead and Broadsides have the exact same str and AP even though the one on the Hammerhead is like 5x larger. That's just the way it is I guess.

The Hammerhead one can do Submunition shot though.

Heh, I have my doubts that would require a 5x upscaling in size.

Nurglitch wrote:They do have stronger Assault Cannons. They're just not strong enough to rate an increase in Strength. Think of each increase in Strength as being an order of magnitude and it makes more sense, representationally.

Exactly; Warhammer doesn't leave a lot of room for numerical variability when it's based around a single d6 for most every roll.

The D6 has nothing to do with it. The fact that most Characteristics are rated from 1-10 does...

Dreadnought weapons are silly in every respect. They're exactly the same stats, but twice as large. Look at the dev team plasma cannon and look at the dreadnought one!

I've always thought they should have +1 strenth to the weapon, just for being so massive :3

Every Dread weapon in 2nd Ed had a bonus. Multi-meltas were variable focus (could be used as heavy flamers), missile launchers got D3 shots, Lascannons were twin linked, and all of sustained fire weapons had ammo feeds that ignored jams.
I think in the current rules dreadnought ammo feeds should add one to the weapon's assault profile

Nurglitch wrote:The D6 has nothing to do with it. The fact that most Characteristics are rated from 1-10 does...

I certainly wouldn't discount the dice used for resolution, but you're certainly right as well.

I certainly would discount the dice used for resolution since a single D6 can have up to 6^6 outcomes.