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Marauder (30 pts)
WS= 2
BS= 4
S= 4
T= 4(5)
W= 2
I= 2
A= 1
LD= 10
Sv= 3+

Unit Size
1-10

Weapons/Wargear
Quad K12 Grenade Launcher
Range: 24", Str: 5, AP: 5, Type: Assault 2, Twin-Linked

Options
Take Punisher Greandes +10 pts
Take Stimpacks +20 pts

Punisher Grenades
Same as profile above but it a unit is hit by a model using Punisher Grenades
they move D6 during their next movement phase and can only run D3 inchs.

Note: Hormagaunts get 3D3 and pick highest.

Stimpacks
Use at the Start of the turn before moving any models. Every model in the unit suffers a wound saves allowed, During the movement phase they move 6"+D6. During the Shooting Phase
their weapon becomes Range: 24", Str: 5, AP: 5, Type: Assault 4, Twin-Linked. This effect lasts untill the end of the player turn.

Firebat (30 pts/model)
WS= 2
BS= 4
S= 4
T= 4(5)
W= 2
I= 2
A= 1
LD= 10
Sv= 3+

Unit Size
1-10

Weapons/Wargear
Duel Flamethrowers
Range: Template, Str: 4, AP: 5, Type: Assault 2

Options
Upgrade Duel Flamethrowers to Flame Gauntlets +10 pts
Range: Template, Str: 4, AP: 5, Type: Assault 2, Twin-Linked

AOE Flame +20 pts
His weapon becomes Type: Assault 2, Blast
Note if you have Flame Gauntlets it becomes.
Assault 2, Blast, Twin-Linked

Juggernaut Plating +30 pts
Gains a 2+ Save and his Toughness counts as 5 instead of 4(5).

ThatMG wrote:Quad K12 Grenade Launcher
Range: 24", Str: 5, AP: 5, Type: Assault 4

Assault 2 twin-linked is more like it.

Also, what's your evidence they deserve T5 and 2 wounds? They have a nice suit of armor and deserve a 3+ save, but they're still human. They are not biologically tough as nobz.

My fixed ver:
Reasons being, a punisher launcher fires no faster than a regular automatic grenade launcher such as the standard cadian pattern. 2 wounds is pushing it, they just have extra large power armor, much smaller than a full battlesuit such as a Tau battlesuit. 2 wounds might be possible to do if you up the points.

I would not include stim packs as they do not make sense from a fluff point of view and are awkward from a tabletop game design perspective.

The slow grenades should be baseline.

Marauder (15 pts)
WS:2 BS:3 S:4 T:5 W:1 I:2 A:1 Ld:8 Sv: 3+
Unit Size
1-10

Weapons/Wargear
Quad K12 Grenade Launcher
Range: 24", Str: 5, AP: 5, Type: Assault 1

Punisher Grenades
A unit is hit by a model using Punisher Grenades counts as being in difficult terrain for movement in their next movement phase.

Again, why T5? They're still just human. Even with the foam interior, that's not going to actually make them biologically tougher. The best you could hope for is T3(5), but I'd want to see the reasoning for that.

Well, their armor is pretty huge. I figured if not additional wounds, they might as well have toughness 5. 4 would work too, but it would be "high end" 4.

Armor does not effect toughness. It effects armor. Terminator armor is also huge, but it doesn't raise their toughness to 5. And even if it did, it'd be T4(5), not T5. The difference is that meltaguns can still instakill a T4(5) target, whereas they cannot instakill a T5 target.

Biology, cybernetics, etc effect toughness. T5 is way too much, T3(4) would be the best I would agree to. You cannot get me to agree to the idea that a meltagun would not instantly kill this human in a suit of power armor.

Maybe rework Stimpacks:
Can only be used once per game.
Each model in the unit suffers an S4 hit, with armor saves allowed, however no FNP roll can be made against wounds caused by stimpacks.
Each model that survives gains the following effects:
Fleet USR until the end of this turn.
Each model may Run and Fire this shooting phase.


Makes it sorta like a WAAGH for each unit, but a little better to offset the risk.
Disallow FNP rolls just in case something givve it to them later (ie: Medic).

A different take on the unit:

Marauder: 30 pts/model

WS BS S T W I A LD Sv
2 4 4 4 1 2 1 10 3+

Unit size: 1-10 Terran Marauders

Wargear:

Quad K12 "Punisher" Grenade Launcher
CMC-660 "Marauder" variant

Options:

Concussive Shells: Units hit by Marauders count as moving through Difficult Terrain during the opponent's next Turn. Affects only Infantry, Cavalry, and Beasts. +5 points/model

Kenetic Foam: Increases Toughness Characteristic by +1. +10 points/model

Stimpacks: May be used in the controlling player's Shooting Phase. Decrease Toughness Characteristic by -1 until controlling player's next Turn. Unit may Run and fire their weapons this Shooting Phase (unit counts as moving even if stationary). +10 points/model

Transport: Each Marauder takes up 2 Transport spaces.


Wargear Section Entries:

Quad K12 "Punisher" Grenade Launcher: Range 24" Str: 5, AP: 4, Type: Assault 2, Twin-Linked

The "Punisher" Grenade Launcher is the signature weapon of Marauders, being capable of loading and firing hundreds of the standard "Punisher" grenades during a given battle, it is a weapon ideally used against strong, armored targets. When given Concussive Shells, Marauders can slow enemies to a crawl, allowing them to fire longer before the enemy breaches effective firing range.

CMC-660 "Marauder" variant: The CMC-660 utilized by Marauders is very close to the version fitted to Firebats, but has a few key differences. The Perdition Flamethrower of the Firebats being replaced by the "Punisher" Grenade Launcher on the arms and heat resistance as well as armor against close combat was less prevalent in the design, leading to a few alterations to the design of the suit.


I think I overdid it...

Really, I think a whole Terran Codex would be pretty awesome to play with as well as models, but then again I'm dreaming.

I'm actually making a Terran codex, it actually uses Marauders, Firebats, Marines, and Medics as options for a squad. Marines are 8 points, marauders/firebats are 16 points, and medics are something i dont remember in points.
Also, it uses old and new units.

When you do make them, have them be T3, as they are still human

If you want to believe that their armor somehow increases their biological toughness (there is no information on the wikia to support this) then they'd be T3(4).

JSK-Fox wrote:I'm actually making a Terran codex, it actually uses Marauders, Firebats, Marines, and Medics as options for a squad. Marines are 8 points, marauders/firebats are 16 points, and medics are something i dont remember in points.
Also, it uses old and new units.

awesome man, when it's done by chance could you forward me a copy?

Melissia wrote:When you do make them, have them be T3, as they are still human

If you want to believe that their armor somehow increases their biological toughness (there is no information on the wikia to support this) then they'd be T3(4).

I would figure that they would be similar to Tau Crisis/Broadside suits. The sheer size of the suit when compared to the individual piloting it makes it much tougher than just a guy with a gun.

I would have to agree, although I'd make them slow and purposeful.

Ingame they look pretty slow...

Melissia wrote:Armor does not effect toughness. It effects armor. Terminator armor is also huge, but it doesn't raise their toughness to 5. And even if it did, it'd be T4(5), not T5. The difference is that meltaguns can still instakill a T4(5) target, whereas they cannot instakill a T5 target.

Biology, cybernetics, etc effect toughness. T5 is way too much, T3(4) would be the best I would agree to. You cannot get me to agree to the idea that a meltagun would not instantly kill this human in a suit of power armor.

@your entire argument: Tell that to battlesuits.

Tau Battle Suits are Vehicles in a logical sense. Shadowsun has an actual suit and is only T3.

I see your point on the T5 it was made just for fun late at night so did not get round to think about instant death, yeah i would agree that melta gun / Krak missile etc would gib one of
these. So i make it T4(5), so note the design choice below will be changed to reflect this.

@ Melissia
My design choices where
T: 5 They would be bigger/thicker armour than Sm but Same protection (Not getting into what its made out of debates)
W: 2 for Stimpacks (Note I need to add the movement bonus e.g. the move 6"+D6 during the movement phase)

Weapon
Assault 4 because it simulates shooting 2 volleys (4 Grenades), if you wacth them shoot in game.
I could Change it to Assault 2, Twin-Linked cause it serves fluff wise. Then I need to change Stimpacks.
See Above.

@ del'vhar
They dont get FNP so pfft Fleet is dumb WS 2 I 2.

@ Shellshocked I made their slow effect to movement because difficult Terrian is too complex and some units can re-roll it or get hurt by it so I made it a roll dice instead.
Also Note AP 4 is big deal if we plan on making Protoss / Zerg models or vs Eldar and other models with 4+ Saves.

Terran Marine Squad- 10 points per model
WS BS S T W I A LD Sv
3 3 3(4) 3 1 3 1 7 3+

Squad Size: 4-12
Wargear: C-14 gauss rifle (Strength 4, AP 6, 24" range, Rapid Fire), slugthrower (Strength 3, AP -, 12" range, Pistol), frag grenades, CMC-300 powered combat suit (confers +1 Strength, for a total of Strength 3(4), as well as a 3+ save)

Options:
-One Marine may upgrade to a Sergeant for +10 points, who gains +1 A and +1 LD.
-One Marine per four squad members may be upgraded with an underslung grenade launcher for +5 points, which is treated in all respects as an auxiliary grenade launcher from Codex: Space Marines.
-All squad members may be equipped with ballistic alloy combat shields for +3 points per model. Marines so equipped gain +1 to their Toughness characteristic, for a total of Toughness 3(4).
-The entire unit may take stimpacks, which confer the Furious Charge universal special rule, at a cost of +3 points per model. Marines equipped with stimpacks also treat their C-14 gauss rifles as Assault 2 rather than Rapid Fire.


Rationale: Terran Marines are basically Imperial Guardsmen-level troops in power armor. Their training standards appear to generally match those of the Guard, with a mix of volunteer and conscript soldiers without any exceptional (for the 40k universe) training. Their power armor appears to boost their strength enough (someone wearing it can punch out a Hydralisk) that it merits an increase in Strength, but not Toughness, as Marines generally don't seem particularly resilient. The C-14 gauss rifle is a .50 caliber assault rifle with an ammo capacity of 200+ rounds; its stats are based on those of the heavy stubber, the only 40k weapon with a known real-world equivalent. Marines are also often seen using pistols known as "slugthrowers" and grenade launchers during cutscenes; the underslung nature of their grenade launchers makes them more akin to the short-range auxiliary grenade launchers from Codex: Space Marines than the dedicated grenade launchers used by the Imperial Guard, while the pistols are basically generic pistols. I feel the combat shield upgrade is an elegant way to represent the increased resilience of Marines equipped with shields. Stimpacks grant Furious Charge because it makes you quicker (extra Initiative). as well as letting you shoot your gun faster, similar to the Gunslingers upgrade for IG Penal Legions.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Terran Marauder Squad- 15 points per model
WS BS S T W I A LD Sv
3 3 4 4 1 2 1 7 3+

Squad Size: 2-5
Wargear: Quad K12 "Punisher" grenade launchers (Strength 5, AP 4, 24" range, Rapid Fire) CMC-660 powered combat suit (confers +1 Strength and Toughness but -1 Initiative, as well as a 3+ save)

Options:
-One Marauder may upgrade to a Sergeant for +10 points, who gains +1 A and +1 LD.
-The entire unit may take stimpacks, which confer the Furious Charge universal special rule, at a cost of +10 points per model. Marauders equipped with stimpacks also treat their Quad K12 "Punisher" grenade launchers as Assault 2 instead of Rapid Fire.

Special Rules:
Punisher grenades: Any non-vehicle unit hit by a model using Punisher grenades counts as being in difficult terrain during its next movement phase. Vehicles hit by Punisher grenades may not move flat out in their next movement phase.

Big Game Hunters: Marauders are often employed against heavily armored Zerg organisms. Their weapons gain +1 Strength when targeting monstrous creatures.


Rationale: Marauders are sufficiently heavily armored that they deserve true stat increases. On the minus side, they don't really have true options. Their weapons are basically krak grenade launchers, but slightly weaker against infantry targets, so no Strength 6. On the other hand, Marauders are good at fighting big bugs (they were designed for it, in fact), so they get that Strength 6 back when targeting monstrous creatures. Marauders have two weapon arms, but they use these to maintain a quick rate of fire instead of firing with both, so they don't get twin-linked and are instead Rapid Fire. This also means the stimpacks can provide the same buff they do to Marines without being too crazy.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Terran Firebat Squad- 25 points per model
WS BS S T W I A LD SV
3 3 4 4 1 2 1 8 3+

Squad Size: 2-5
Wargear: Dual Perdition flamethrowers (Strength 4, AP 5, Assault 1 Template, twin-linked), CMC-660 powered combat suit (confers +1 Strength and Toughness but -1 Initiative, as well as a 3+ save)

Options:
One Firebat may upgrade to a Sergeant for +10 points, who gains +1 A and +1 LD.
The entire unit may take stimpacks, which confer the Furious Charge universal special rule, at a cost of +5 points per model.

Special Rules:
Pyromaniacs: Firebats are even crazier than ordinary Terran infantry, and tenaciously cling to battle when it means an opportunity to incinerate more foes. Firebats are considered Stubborn.


Rationale: Firebats have two flamers, which are flamers. They have the same armor as Marauders and the same stimpacks as everyone else. I considered making the stimpacks grant Assault 2 flamers, but Firebats would be just insanely, ludicrously good with two twin-linked flamers and Furious Charge, so I had to hold back on that one. Much as I love Firebats, that would just be too crazy.

ph34r wrote:

Melissia wrote:Armor does not effect toughness. It effects armor. Terminator armor is also huge, but it doesn't raise their toughness to 5. And even if it did, it'd be T4(5), not T5. The difference is that meltaguns can still instakill a T4(5) target, whereas they cannot instakill a T5 target.

Biology, cybernetics, etc effect toughness. T5 is way too much, T3(4) would be the best I would agree to. You cannot get me to agree to the idea that a meltagun would not instantly kill this human in a suit of power armor.

@your entire argument: Tell that to battlesuits.

I do, they don't listen to me :(

Joking aside, they're basically small dreadnoughts rather than large powered armor. I doubt this armor is any bigger than terminator armor.

Lotet wrote:Tau Battle Suits are Vehicles in a logical sense. Shadowsun has an actual suit and is only T3.

Yeah, pretty much.

Oh, forgot one unit for Troops:

Terran Reaper Squad- 15 points per model
WS BS S T W I A LD Sv
3 3 3 3 1 3 1(2) 8 4+

Squad Size: 4-10
Wargear: Dual P-38 "Scythe" gauss pistols (Strength 4, AP 6, 12" range, Pistol, twin-linked, counts as dual-armed in melee), carapace armor, jump pack, frag grenades.

Options:
Any Reaper may take a demolition charge at a cost of +20 points per model.

Special Rules:
Scouts, Hit and Run

Why should they count as two close combat weapons in melee? Are they specifically trained to use them that way? I never read that.

Yes. They always do the whole two pistols at once thing, just like Seraphim.

For gauss weapons, I put in an ability similar to necrons, with on a six, roll a d6. On a 5+, the vehicle is shaken. I also think that Reapers would be better as fast attack, and instead, have something like rebels as another troops choice. I put it so that each slot aside from troops and HQ will have 5 different choices.

Melissia wrote:Why should they count as two close combat weapons in melee? Are they specifically trained to use them that way? I never read that.

Reapers are very aggressive, I could see them easily whacking someone upside the head with their pistols...

(And according to the fluff from the website, they are indeed specifically trained for close quarters combat link)

@Fetterkey: I'm with JSK on the Fast Attack choice for the Reapers.

@JSK-Fox: Would you care to share some of the Units from your fan-dex?

I considered making Reapers Fast Attack, but decided that the projected Fast Attack slot was already far too crowded (Banshees, Vultures, Wraiths, Hellions, Medivacs, Diamondbacks, Predators, Valkyries if I get around to it). Terran Marines don't get a gauss effect against vehicles because their weapons work completely differently from Necron ones, and reasonably speaking an assault rifle, even a really really good .50 caliber assault rifle, is not going to do much of anything to most 40k vehicles.

Before this thread gets too much further I have to ask if people are really thinking this through all that well. Lasguns fire shots that contain 500 kilojoules of energy on average where as even a .50 cal such as the Barrett M82 would need to fire twenty-five shots to reach the same totals. Modern rifles are all going to be strength 2 for that reason. A marauder is likely firing s3 blast markers that cause units to be in difficult terrain. Things like firebats would have the equal of hand flamers, it's just not logical for things in SC to be on 40k's level when we see them dying to slightly better than modern weapons.

I am basing all weapon statistics on the fact that a heavy stubber (Strength 4 AP - 36" range Heavy 3) is explicitly stated by designer notes to be equivalent to a modern machine gun.

Norade wrote:Before this thread gets too much further I have to ask if people are really thinking this through all that well. Lasguns fire shots that contain 500 kilojoules of energy on average where as even a .50 cal such as the Barrett M82 would need to fire twenty-five shots to reach the same totals. Modern rifles are all going to be strength 2 for that reason. A marauder is likely firing s3 blast markers that cause units to be in difficult terrain. Things like firebats would have the equal of hand flamers, it's just not logical for things in SC to be on 40k's level when we see them dying to slightly better than modern weapons.

Hey, Starcraft stuff is made out of Unobtainium too.

@ Fetterkey: if that Terran Marine is 10 points within the WH40K ruleset, then I want a discount on my Dire Avengers! (Actually, all things considered, I'll probably get it when a contemporary codex is released.) I do like your line of reasoning regarding their power more, though I'm not certain an increase in strength is actually on the table for two reasons:
1. Terran Marines get chewed up in melee (actually, none of the terran suits show any melee capability at all, the best you get is a flame template suit)
2. Tychus, if you've played the campaign, is a fairly large and powerful man without the suit, and he's not exactly getting too much help from his suit when he tries to throw that table. I'd say he's S4 with or without the suit, and he's NOT a typical marine.
I recon all that power in the suit goes to vital systems, life support, and to move the damned thing.

How does a twin-linked flame template work?

Norade wrote:Before this thread gets too much further I have to ask if people are really thinking this through all that well. Lasguns fire shots that contain 500 kilojoules of energy on average where as even a .50 cal such as the Barrett M82 would need to fire twenty-five shots to reach the same totals. Modern rifles are all going to be strength 2 for that reason. A marauder is likely firing s3 blast markers that cause units to be in difficult terrain. Things like firebats would have the equal of hand flamers, it's just not logical for things in SC to be on 40k's level when we see them dying to slightly better than modern weapons.

Your line of reasoning is flawed. It's not about how much energy there is in the shot, but how much energy is transferred to what area and in what manner. So a .50 cal Barret M82 fires shots with 20 KJ in them, I'll use that as an example. Which do you think do most damage; that .50 cal shot or a fluffy teddybear containing the same energy? Second question: which shot do you think does most damage to a human target; a .50 cal full metal jacket or a .50 cal hollow point? See where I'm going? Last question: what do you think does most damage; 500KJ spread over a 0,1mm radius area or 500KJ spread over 1cm radius area?
Next time you boil water, remember that it took over 33MJ/dl to get the water boiling.

Think of it from this perspective instead: what modern weapons are capable of damaging light vehicles. I'm not talking about Humvees (those things are actually pretty decently armoured), but at the same time I'm not talking civvy vehicles, either.

Now, a hand-held laser capable of sending a beam of only 1W (continuous fire) is capable of setting fire to living human skin. And incidentally seem to cost $300.

Mahtamori wrote:@ Fetterkey: if that Terran Marine is 10 points within the WH40K ruleset, then I want a discount on my Dire Avengers! (Actually, all things considered, I'll probably get it when a contemporary codex is released.) I do like your line of reasoning regarding their power more, though I'm not certain an increase in strength is actually on the table for two reasons:
1. Terran Marines get chewed up in melee (actually, none of the terran suits show any melee capability at all, the best you get is a flame template suit)
2. Tychus, if you've played the campaign, is a fairly large and powerful man without the suit, and he's not exactly getting too much help from his suit when he tries to throw that table. I'd say he's S4 with or without the suit, and he's NOT a typical marine.
I recon all that power in the suit goes to vital systems, life support, and to move the damned thing.

I have played the campaign. While Marines don't melee in the game (anymore-- the alpha had bayonet animations similar to the Hydra or Roach's melee animation if the enemy gets too close), they do seem like they have the ability to do so based on various cutscene clips. In cutscenes, Tychus (who is, as you say, tougher than your average Marine) tears a jukebox off its mount, holds it over his head and throws it a fair distance with considerable force-- jukeboxes easily weigh hundreds of pounds. General Warfield (who is a tough guy, but also old), kills or knocks out a Hydralisk with nothing but his armor-assisted fist. That seems to merit strength 3(4) in my book, though I agree it could go either way. I'd say Terran Marines in armor are "low 4," while Space Marines in armor are "high 4."

Mahtamori wrote:How does a twin-linked flame template work?

It rerolls to wound. Firebats are really scary.

Fetterkey wrote:Yes. They always do the whole two pistols at once thing, just like Seraphim.

That is not what I asked.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Shellshock41 wrote:(And according to the fluff from the website, they are indeed specifically trained for close quarters combat link)

Thank you.