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**Mr. Burning**

DaveC wrote:
The planned disposal of some of CMONs IPs is not going ahead.

The Company would like to update potential investors and the shareholders of the
Company that the Disposal will not proceed as the parties are not being able to agree on
the terms of the Disposal and sign a definitive agreement. The Company has already
informed the other party in respect of the termination of the Disposal in accordance with
the terms of the MOU. Accordingly, no intellectual properties of the Group will be
disposed of.

The cynic in me thinks that CMoN perceived a value for their IP’s that didn’t meet with reality.

**OrlandotheTechnicoloured**

Hmm, wonder if that scuppers the HATE stl project ?

or if that's a new attempt to use the IPs that CMON aren't planning to use any time soon by licencing them out ?

**parakuribo**

Something tells me there are some IPs that they don't want remade. Something also tells me that includes HATE....

**warboss**

Were they really calling it a "disposal"? Is that an accepted term in corporate finance? Because from this outsider's perspective looking in, it's kind of funny given the circumstances...

**Mr. Burning**

warboss wrote:
Were they really calling it a "disposal"? Is that an accepted term in corporate finance? Because from this outsider's perspective looking in, it's kind of funny given the circumstances...

It is a dry, business-y, term.

Much like the use of “divest”.

**warboss**

Mr. Burning wrote:

It is a dry, business-y, term.

Much like the use of “divest”.

I appreciate the clarification but reserve the right to still snicker quietly regardless.

**frankelee**

Nothing against CMON or their IPs, but that sounded like a lot of money. In the same spirit as the saying, 'the best way to make a small fortune from owning a baseball is to start with a large fortune and buy a baseball team,' like how would any IP in tabletop gaming that isn't Warhammer related be worth $12,000,000? Most of those IPs would just cause you to lose money trying to make a successful game out of them. I guess I don't know what was all in the package deal, but for IPs there's just no way.

**highlord tamburlaine**

HATE is one of those games I HATEd parting with- pun intended.

It was absolutely gorgeous painted up with all the 3d painted terrain on top of everything.

The fact that they'll be offering up STLs that I can hopefully cherry pick is great, with the opportunity for possible new figures is even better.

You best believe I'll be keeping an eye out for new Vore Nash!

**Monkeysloth**

frankelee wrote:
Nothing against CMON or their IPs, but that sounded like a lot of money. In the same spirit as the saying, 'the best way to make a small fortune from owning a baseball is to start with a large fortune and buy a baseball team,' like how would any IP in tabletop gaming that isn't Warhammer related be worth $12,000,000? Most of those IPs would just cause you to lose money trying to make a successful game out of them. I guess I don't know what was all in the package deal, but for IPs there's just no way.

Curious so I looked at wikipeida for some crowdfunding numbers of IP they own that could be part of this (with some rounding and not accounting for inflation):

Rising Sun: 4 million raised
Ankh 3.3 million raised
Arcadia quest about 3 million from several campaigns
Trudvang 1.5 million raised (didn't own at first, bought and then did nothing with the IP as they seam to have completely dropped continuing the RPG game)
The Others 1.5 million raised
Smog 1.3 million from multiple campaigns
sedition wars 950k (I think they bought this from Mcvey or bought studio McVey)
Starcadia 900k
Rum and Bones 1.6 million from multiple campaigns
Blood rage 900k (though there was a second ks for a videogame and alternate versions of exclusives that I don't see listed)
Wrath of kings 700k
Project: Elite 600k
B-Sieged 550k
xenoshyft 600k from multiple campaigns
kaosball 350k

that's about 14.5 million since around 2012 not including inflation. If they're just looking at what they raised as justification for cost 12million is possible but are any of those really worth those numbers anymore? I know Ank, Blood Rage and Rising Sun have had legs in retail from that list but I nothing else really did and I don't think those three have been mentioned as IPs they're looking to sell.

**Mr. Burning**

Monkeysloth wrote:
frankelee wrote:
Nothing against CMON or their IPs, but that sounded like a lot of money. In the same spirit as the saying, 'the best way to make a small fortune from owning a baseball is to start with a large fortune and buy a baseball team,' like how would any IP in tabletop gaming that isn't Warhammer related be worth $12,000,000? Most of those IPs would just cause you to lose money trying to make a successful game out of them. I guess I don't know what was all in the package deal, but for IPs there's just no way.

Curious so I looked at wikipeida for some crowdfunding numbers of IP they own that could be part of this (with some rounding and not accounting for inflation):

Rising Sun: 4 million raised
Ankh 3.3 million raised
Arcadia quest about 3 million from several campaigns
Trudvang 1.5 million raised (didn't own at first, bought and then did nothing with the IP as they seam to have completely dropped continuing the RPG game)
The Others 1.5 million raised
Smog 1.3 million from multiple campaigns
sedition wars 950k (I think they bought this from Mcvey or bought studio McVey)
Starcadia 900k
Rum and Bones 1.6 million from multiple campaigns
Blood rage 900k (though there was a second ks for a videogame and alternate versions of exclusives that I don't see listed)
Wrath of kings 700k
Project: Elite 600k
B-Sieged 550k
xenoshyft 600k from multiple campaigns
kaosball 350k

that's about 14.5 million since around 2012 not including inflation. If they're just looking at what they raised as justification for cost 12million is possible but are any of those really worth those numbers anymore? I know Ank, Blood Rage and Rising Sun have had legs in retail from that list but I nothing else really did and I don't think those three have been mentioned as IPs they're looking to sell.

CMoN have gotten what they could out of these via crowd funding. Is there anything of value in these IPs for further campaigns?

CMoN are concentrating on other IP. It would be conjecture to suggest that have milked them for all they had……

The community have had what they wanted out of their KS contributions. And there is little to no recognition outside of that group.They are hardly ‘evergreen’.

Buyers such as Embracer are quiet. Other investors have seen acquisitions for a family of brands slow to nothing. Big media are not interested…

**Gallahad**

They could easily run big campaigns for several of those in my opinion, but not all.

On some of them my impression is that they locked all the fun stuff in KS exclusives, so the base retail game was hurt. Some of them are just bad games.

I know that even a simple reprint campaign for Project Elite would bring in big money based on 2nd hand prices for some of the expansions.

As an aside, if you guys get a chance to play Project Elite you should. Very fun and very unique experience.

I think a reprint of Blood Rage would do well again. Nice add-ons like thicker cardboard clan sheets, more alternative monsters, mousepad game board, etc. would be popular

**frankelee**

I appreciate that buying the IP may come with more than just the name and ideas, it could include sculpts and already made gaming materials and so on, but even so that math wouldn't make any sense. I'm not sure what the ideal percentage cost an IP should be over a decade of related revenue, but I can't imagine many MBAs would want to spend over 5%, certainly not nearly 85%. And then, as pointed out, now they're dead brands that would have to be revived to a consumer group that already rejected them.

Trudvang and Blood Rage might be worth five figures, the rest of those aren't worth more than four figures each. I don't know what else was in the attempted deal, but as the numbers Monkeysloth compiled show, this is waaaaaay too small of an industry for splashing millions to take over an IP. You can make up your own IPs, you can steal rules, you can commission your own artists to make crappy CMON style digital speed paintings.

**DaveC**

The board (the ‘‘Board’’) of directors (the ‘‘Directors’’) of the Company wishes to inform the shareholders of the Company (the ‘‘Shareholders’’) and potential investors that based on the preliminary review of the unaudited management accounts of the Group for the year ended 31 December 2024, it is expected that there will be a loss attributable to equity holders of the Company for the year ended 31 December 2024 as compared to a profit attributable to equity holders of the Company of approximately US$0.8 million for the year ended 31 December 2023. The loss attributable to equity holders of the Company for the year ended 31 December 2024 is estimated to be within the range of US$1.4 million to US$2.1 million. Such a change was mainly due to a drop in revenue as sales of tabletop games fell due to the increase in cost of living in key markets like North America and Europe.

The 2024 annual results were due to be submitted today but CMON have advised that they are not in a position to submit them yet due to the financial department being understaffed. It's likely that trading in CMON shares will be suspended tomorrow as a result of the failure to submit the annual accounts.

They also issued $1.25m in subscriber shares last year for which they have not yet received the funds and these may have to be canceled - looks like the subscribers got cold feet on their investment.

I wouldn't be surprised if the loss is at the high end of the $2.1m estimate or more. No wonder they are running so many crowdfunders/preorders - I'd be concerned now about them - their viability as a going concern was already in question last year when they made a profit - now they are in a loss, they are struggling to get investment and they can't sell their IP which they appear to be overvaluing.

**Alpharius**

I still have some CMON campaigns outstanding - this isn't giving me the warm and fuzzies...

Also, please, just sell the Dark Age and Wrath of Kings properties to someone genuinely excited to bring them back to market AND competent already!

**OrlandotheTechnicoloured**

Sounds genuinely troubling this time round,

the IP sale not happening (although whether they really thought it would happen at those prices or whether it was a tactic to placate shareholders or maybe grab some investment i'm not sure)

Tariffs in the USA means lower sales (and/or more expense if they cover some of the costs to maintain sales)

Asmodee keeping dropping the ball on distribution has got to be hurting sales (was dumping their warehouse really the best idea)

Unpaid subscriber shares will really hurt them as it makes them look (very) undesirable, especially if they didn't have insurance via a financial institution to buy them up if the offer failed

I guess we have to keep our finger crossed for backers of all those outstanding KS

**Alpharius**

Massive Darkness 3 and DC United for me are pending - "only" 2 projects but went pretty heavy on both...

**rybackstun**

Alpharius wrote:
Massive Darkness 3 and DC United for me are pending - "only" 2 projects but went pretty heavy on both...

I feel you. Still waiting on White Death and ASOIAF: Tactics, and DCeased and DC United all also projects I went all in on.

I'm definitely not backing anything by them until I get all the stuff I'm owed but I'm probably tapped out for good and will just pick up retail stuff should anything come out that I want.

**DaveC**

Waiting on White Death which at least is shipping and DCeased. With the current state of affairs I wouldn't be putting more than a $1 wait and see pledge on anything else - and there's the problem the more news like this comes out the less likely people are to back the more likely they are to have further money issues.

**warboss**

I hope this doesn't bring a new wave* of crowdfunding defaults. Cmon was pretty much the come back kid story with an almost perfect record so far.

*if you know then you know and I see some fellow forum old farts who probably do.

**Ghool**

I have an all in for MD3 and that’s all I’m willing to risk. I thought about the Adventurers preorder but backed off because of this news. I have the original games so that one was easy.
They need to start getting these things completed and shipped. But when Clash for Eternia, which is just a translation and reprint gets pushed back a year past delivery, it really starts to make me wonder.
Fingers crossed for all of us invested in their games.

**straken619**

Things are not looking good for CMON for a while now.... That didn't stop me from backing 3 projects though...
White Death has started shipping so I don't really worry about this.
For ASOIAF Tactics I still hope it will be completed because it's kinda high on the list but I expect at least one year delay.
DC United is the one still getting regular updates but it's also the one i worry the most that I will not get...
I definitely don't expect to get all 3 in 2025. And I don't think I will back another CMON project soon. At least not until I get 2 out the 3 projects I have already backed.

**youwashock**

warboss wrote:
I hope this doesn't bring a new wave* of crowdfunding defaults. Cmon was pretty much the come back kid story with an almost perfect record so far.

*if you know then you know and I see some fellow forum old farts who probably do.

This right here. Here's hoping they can make good on their campaigns.

**Gallahad**

They came back from a similar sized loss in 2020, and I feel they have a lot of valuable assets they could run sales on to shore up cash flow if needed, but I'd still be very careful backing anything going forward until they start delivering on more projects.

ASOIAF Tactics will hopefully help add another lucrative line of retail sales, like ASOIAF: The Miniatures Game. I think with more effort at community management they could easily grow ASOIAF TMG by double digits. It is a really really great game with regular retail releases, a huge catalog, an excellent IP, a strong indie community, and basically zero community effort or marketing from CMON.

I think they will be fine in the long run, but it is likely to be some rocky years. I won't be backing more until they deliver more of my outstanding projects, but I'll still buy nearly everything they put out for ASOIAF at retail.

**ced1106**

Haven't been paying attention, but BoardGameGeek should have the latest on Asmodee and investors. Vaguely recall that the investors were from Saudi Arabia and/or Asmodee was seeking to sell of its gaming investments.

I regularly see CMON at retail, and it has partnered with SPIN games, whoever they are. IMO, That's better than some companies that only use KS for their expensive high-end games.

MD3 didn't have enough mini's for me, and I haven't been interested in their KS since White Death. Bought some Marvel United and Marvel Zombicide retail, though.

**Ghool**

That Saudi Asmodee deal fell through, and now it is saddled with billions in debt.
I’ll be surprised if it doesn’t get downsized and sold off in a few years.

**DaveC**

As expected trading in CMON shares has been suspended although at the request of CMON - probably jumped before pushed looks better if they do it themselves.

TRADING SUSPENSION

Reference is made to the announcement of CMON Limited (the ‘‘Company’’) dated 25 March 2025 regarding, among other things, the delay in publication of its annual results announcement for the year ended 31 December 2024 (the ‘‘Announcement’’). For the reasons set out in the Announcement and at the request of the Company, trading in the shares of the Company on The Stock Exchange of Hong Kong Limited was suspended at 9:00 a.m. on Tuesday, 1 April 2025, pending the publication of the Company’s annual results announcement for the year ended 31 December 2024.

**warboss**

I hereby formally submit my offer of $43.67 freedom bucks for both Xenoshyft and Sedition Wars.

**Greenfield**

Ghool wrote:
That Saudi Asmodee deal fell through, and now it is saddled with billions in debt.
I’ll be surprised if it doesn’t get downsized and sold off in a few years.

You're confusing Asmodee and the parent company Embracer. Embracer purchased Asmodee a few years ago, then ran into difficulty when the Saudi investment feel through. They just spun Asmodee off as an independent company on the Swedish stock market. Asmodee took a share of the parent company's debt with it as part of the spin-off but it's effectively an independent public company again, solely concerned with tabletop games.

https://www.marketscreener.com/quote/stock/EMBRACER-GROUP-AB-61747448/news/Asmodee-starts-trading-today-on-Nasdaq-Stockholm-after-spin-off-from-Embracer-48988104/

**Ghool**

Greenfield wrote:
Ghool wrote:
That Saudi Asmodee deal fell through, and now it is saddled with billions in debt.
I’ll be surprised if it doesn’t get downsized and sold off in a few years.

You're confusing Asmodee and the parent company Embracer. Embracer purchased Asmodee a few years ago, then ran into difficulty when the Saudi investment feel through. They just spun Asmodee off as an independent company on the Swedish stock market. Asmodee took a share of the parent company's debt with it as part of the spin-off but it's effectively an independent public company again, solely concerned with tabletop games.

https://www.marketscreener.com/quote/stock/EMBRACER-GROUP-AB-61747448/news/Asmodee-starts-trading-today-on-Nasdaq-Stockholm-after-spin-off-from-Embracer-48988104/

And they were saddled with Embracers debt of billions. No?

**parakuribo**

The newest Saints Row became a monthly game on PS+ the same day Volition shut down. On opposite ends are Crystal Dynamics(Tomb Raider, Gex and Legacy of Kain collections) and Saber(Space Marine II); they're both lucky so far but it could take one slip up to give everyone the axe as well(in Saber's case, it depends on their Hasbro project). Sadly it could be safe to say that all of Asmodee's branches can be pruned as well(with CMON first, don't know about AMG though).

Sad thing: I told people that Star Wars Unlimited could have been dropped because of Embracer's problems, but they laughed at me for it....