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MilkmanAl wrote:
If you run Pathfinders at all, they should be naked - markers only. They're basically the worst marker light option in the book, though, so unless you just love the models, I'd work with something else.

I agree with this. They are only sort of useful in a Ranged Support Cadre, and that formation is not super competitive. For cheap markerlight support, you can't go wrong with marker drones (preferably in a Drone Net).

 ZergSmasher wrote:

MilkmanAl wrote:
If you run Pathfinders at all, they should be naked - markers only. They're basically the worst marker light option in the book, though, so unless you just love the models, I'd work with something else.

I agree with this. They are only sort of useful in a Ranged Support Cadre, and that formation is not super competitive. For cheap markerlight support, you can't go wrong with marker drones (preferably in a Drone Net).

Oh, I know and in a tournament setting I'd take a Commander in a ML drone net for that sweet BS5 ML goodness. Or some Tetras. I just like the idea of Pathfinders and just wanted to know how to get the most mileage out of them.

 TheCustomLime wrote:

 ZergSmasher wrote:

MilkmanAl wrote:
If you run Pathfinders at all, they should be naked - markers only. They're basically the worst marker light option in the book, though, so unless you just love the models, I'd work with something else.

I agree with this. They are only sort of useful in a Ranged Support Cadre, and that formation is not super competitive. For cheap markerlight support, you can't go wrong with marker drones (preferably in a Drone Net).

Oh, I know and in a tournament setting I'd take a Commander in a ML drone net for that sweet BS5 ML goodness. Or some Tetras. I just like the idea of Pathfinders and just wanted to know how to get the most mileage out of them.

I use pathfinders fairly frequently in less competitive, non-tournament settings. I usually just run a base squad of 6 of them (because that's how many I own). As a rule of thumb I expect them to only shoot markerlights during turn 1. I plan on them being thoroughly dead by turn 2. Thinking of them this way has served me pretty well, because unless your opponent is tactically challenged they're going to focus fire the pathfinders hard. So if they get their first volley off, I'm happy. If they get a second round of fire off, I'm ecstatic. If they get a third round off, I assume my opponent is just bad.

With this mindset I find pathfinder perform reasonably well on average, but you almost assuredly can't count on them to be your only markerlight source. I tend to run a couple more resilient supplementary markerlight sources like a skyray or sniper drone team. I would strongly suggest against relying on them as your main source unless you're spamming enough teams your opponents just won't be able to focus them all down or spending a ton of points keeping them safe (like the tidewall).

I was wondering what you guys thought on some XV8 loadouts, currently I'm getting around to building a list I made a couple of years back using a retaliation cadre and an optimised stealth cadres (so I'm running more than minimum in each squad at the moment).
At the moment I'm running 3 squads for the rc; 3 with ion, and 2 squads of 4 with a fusion blaster and plasma rifle each which I'm not sure on. Each team has 2 shield drones each.
Thinking about moving the weapons around so I don't have any mixed suits anymore so that would be 3 ion, 4 plasma and 4 fusion as the squads, but I've been on the fence between that and moving the fusion team to be 3 strong while the ion goes 4 strong instead.

Also here's my list at the moment. Probably going to give the commander 2x plasma rifles too.
I'm running the stealth suit "tax" of the osc as my markerlight support because it seems to fit, they can hide in cover reasonably well and if a ghostkeel stays close I can make those marker shots bs4 which seems nice with so few. I did have ewo on the riptide and broadsides in a previous version, but had to drop them when I realised a maths mistake and found myself 20pts over.

Hi Guys. Wanted to post my list here and not on the army list site as I'd rather get feedback from other Tau Generals. It's for an RTT this Saturday. I'm pretty happy with it, and it's been tweaked over the last few tournaments. There is a pretty diverse mix of armies, and I'm expecting 3-4 Ynnari so that should be interesting.

1850-
CAD - Farsight Enclaves
Commander - 179
Iridium, Target Lock, Drone Cont, 2x M pods, 2x marker drone

Kroot x 15 - 110
Kroot hound. Sniper rounds.

Crisis Suit bkr, 2x missile pod - 53
Crisis suit bkr, 2x m pod -53

Marker drones 5x

Storm surge
TL burst, ewo, shield, v tracker - 440
Munitorum container - 40

Riptide Wing
3x Hbc/Sms/ewo/v tracker

Piranha Wing
Target acq team seeker missile - 48
3x piranha squad 3x seeker - 144
1x piranha - 48 (seeker)
1x piranha -48 (seeker).

I know it's heavy on skyfire but honestly it's indicative of our meta. I feel like it's solid, but wanted to get your collective thoughts.

You need more ML units. I tried getting away with two for a while and I think 3 is the most optimal. Especially with only one unit (I'm assuming the buffmander will hang with the ML drone unit) they'll be a prime target and once they're gone you lose out on D-missile and S-missile goodness. I'm warming up to the sniper drone team with 3 marksmen dudes. I'm also finding that each ML unit needs to reliably put three ML tokens on a target to maximize shooting (2 to remove cover and 1 to increase BS). I run the hunter contingent/cadre so in most cases I'm already hitting on 3's anyway.

Also, yes optimized stealth cadre is awesome - especially against a vehicle heavy opponent

Definitely don't mix weapons on individual suits or within suit units unless using an appropriate amount of target locks. You'll get frustrated with the range variance pretty quickly. As for specific armaments, my Crisis Suits get dual fusion, dual CIB, or dual flamers. Plasma and AFP are interesting options but are lacking when compared with the above options.

The Stealth teams as marker sources is pretty lackluster, in my opinion. You're basically spending extra points to not use a BS4, cover-ignoring burst cannon in each unit. What I'd probably choose to do would be to rearrange your Marker Drones to one of your Crisis teams - probably the CIB guys since you already have a lot of S7 AP4 - and give your Commander a drone controller and some drones. If you don't want to switch the Commander to CIBs, he could still roll with the fusion teams, but that'll shift target priority toward that unit significantly. You'd also likely want to splash target locks on the suits so you can mark and shoot different units.

As for the second list, I'm not really a fan of the Firestream Wing. It doesn't put out enough firepower or drones for the cost. Maybe change it out for some Skyrays and/or Broadsides? That'd allow you to maybe save some points on VTs, too. An IA Riptide would you some good, too.

Is it the amount of shots and that extra 6" to play with that makes the ion better than the plasma? I figured the ap2 would have been useful.

AP 2 is useful if you face a lot of 2+ saves, but generally speaking, the volume of shots and higher strength on the CIB is more useful. Consider bikes (or Thunderwolves or any of the other common T5 marine things) for a minute. A CIB will do 5/12 wounds against those models, while plasms does either 1/3 at >12" or 2/3 within 12", so you're actually better off when keeping your target at range. The CIB is also much better against vehicles and targets with invulnerable saves. Furthermore, if you're trying to stay out of charge range of something fast, 12+2d6" is a whole lot worse than 18+2d6" There's nothing wrong with plasma, but the CIB is just a better all-around choice.

Also, for what it's worth, I don't know that you need a whole lot more marker lights than the drone configuration I suggested would grant. Depending on how you decided to run it, you'd have something like 5-7 marker hits per turn. Given that most of your units (OSC, IA Tide, Broadsides) are reasonably independent of markerlights, you should be fine.

One thing I missed the first time around is that there are only 2 Ghostkeels in your OSC. Strongly consider dropping a suit or two to fit in a third. It'll make that unit more durable, obviously, and more importantly will give your Keels an extra BS from Fire Team. BS5 Ghostkeels mean business. They'll shred things.

I completely missed fire team.
That's crazy given the defensive ability of the ghostkeel as well.

I would like to share a very quick story.

I attended an ITC event this weekend. My first game was against a guy who had a Greater Brass Scorpion.

It charged me in turn 2, and my Ghostkeels killed it in close combat. Lol!

It had 3 Hull Points left when it charged. i threw two Smash attacks at it, hit twice, and killed it.

It was epic.

Glorious

 n0t_u wrote:
I completely missed fire team.
That's crazy given the defensive ability of the ghostkeel as well.

Yup. I have hammered the opposition with Ghostkeels.

I had a Nova'd HBC Riptide Immobilize an AV 13 Dread in Overwatch during a tournament. Saved his bacon!

DirtyDeeds wrote:
I had a Nova'd HBC Riptide Immobilize an AV 13 Dread in Overwatch during a tournament. Saved his bacon!

And I think I've had mine do a smash attack on one in melee and take its last hullpoint. I pictured it doing the "Captain Kirk 2-handed punch" to the dread. I've actually found that Tau sometimes do surprisingly well in melee considering their reputation of sucking at it.

MilkmanAl wrote:
The Stealth teams as marker sources is pretty lackluster, in my opinion. You're basically spending extra points to not use a BS4, cover-ignoring burst cannon in each unit. What I'd probably choose to do would be to rearrange your Marker Drones to one of your Crisis teams - probably the CIB guys since you already have a lot of S7 AP4 - and give your Commander a drone controller and some drones. If you don't want to switch the Commander to CIBs, he could still roll with the fusion teams, but that'll shift target priority toward that unit significantly. You'd also likely want to splash target locks on the suits so you can mark and shoot different units.

I just noticed the stealths have multitrackers so wouldn't it get to fire both? Admittedly it's still more expensive but was looking for a way to make use of them for the rest of the army since they sort of became recon units with their beacon and being on the table turn 1 to help the retaliation cadre deep strike in if needed.

I once had my Riptide elbow-butt an Ironclad that charged it (his attacks managed to deal just 1 wound against my 5++ saves, lol)! My friend now doesn't stop telling me Riptides are awesome in melee

 Vector Strike wrote:
I once had my Riptide elbow-butt an Ironclad that charged it (his attacks managed to deal just 1 wound against my 5++ saves, lol)! My friend now doesn't stop telling me Riptides are awesome in melee

My commander had a similar story, in the final game of a tournament, my commander and his squad of XV8 got charged by a nurgle Daemon prince with the black mace, the commander took one wound before knocking out the prince with his onager gauntlet. After that he punched out two more plague marine sergeants in challenges. He has therefore gotten a well deserved reputation for close combat and I never leave home without my favourite relic

Just wanted to join in on the Ghostkeel praise. Had my first game against battle company with my Tau today. My opponent had two Ironclad Dreadnoughts drop in turn one, on my turn my Keels killed them both and a Razorback on top too. It's crazy how effective they are vs vehicles.

yup. Vehicles should rightly fear them. I love Ghostkeels.

 Jancoran wrote:
yup. Vehicles should rightly fear them. I love Ghostkeels.

Because Riptide wing is nerfed to ground in my meta I feel OSC is even better than it. Of course its limited to my area, but still. Feels good to play something different, even some of my opponents have said it's refreshing to see something else than Riptide wing.

An added thought about my 2 4 man ion xv8s teams, would it be a good idea for me to look at trying to find the 30 points so that 3 suits in each squad have target locks considering the volume of fire they'd have. I'm sort of on the fence as they are 18".

 n0t_u wrote:
An added thought about my 2 4 man ion xv8s teams, would it be a good idea for me to look at trying to find the 30 points so that 3 suits in each squad have target locks considering the volume of fire they'd have. I'm sort of on the fence as they are 18".

Run them as Monats, it's cheaper and you won't break due to causalities.

SJ

They've got shield drones to try to help out (making the squads 6 strong with shield drones), but I can see how that helps. I just went though my list and like realised I can throw out 81 s7 shots a turn from different sources 69 of which deepstrikes in turn 2 at bs4, that's just crazy.

I wouldn't bother with shield drones most of the time. Most opponents will shoot them off the table with weaponry their invuln wouldn't be of use against then bust out the big guns. I suppose they have some utility when in a unit with a tankmander, though.

In any event, running individual suits - or at least tiny units - will do a lot more for damage mitigation than extra drones of any sort. Making your opponent waste firepower is always a good thing. It also grants you extra mobility and target flexibility without dropping extra points.

Shield drones! ooooo no.

They mean you can fail LD checks and fly off the board.

It occurs to me that I've never played a mirror match under this codex. Assuming a competitive environment where you're likely going to see at least 1 Stormsurge and a couple Riptides, how would you play the game out? What would your target priority be? S7 AP4 honestly isn't all that effective vs most big suits, so we may have serious issues eliminating opposing Riptides and Surges. Would you go all-out and try to D-missile the opposing Surge away? Lots of questions abound.

For me, it'd be all about knocking out whatever could hurt me, which seems obvious enough. D-shotgun Stormsurges are top priority with Broadsides next and IA Riptides a close third. Y'Vahras would also be high on the list. Smart missiles should make quick work of whatever objective holding units are running around, be they lone suits or minimal FW squads. I've been running the blastcannon more often recently, so chances are good I'd be running around trying to D then stomp away opposing Riptides as much as possible. Overall, I'd do my best to play an objective denial game, eliminating enemy objective campers with whatever small arms I had around and trying to soak the big guys with wounds as appropriate. That said, I doubt I'd bother attacking Riptides with anything not AP2 unless there just really wasn't anything else to go for.

A few of my mirror matches have come down to each of us trying to D-missile each others Stormsurge, which I feel is a correct play. However, I think that against Riptide wing it could be useful to outrange opponents markerlights with your Surge (impossible against Tetras), then shoot a Riptide instead. Bonus points if it prevents his nova reroll from happening.

I played a mirror match recently splitting up my models with a friend who didn't have an army. 1250 Tau Civil War; Enclaves vs. TE. Small match, but I had 2 Y'Vahras and he had a Stormsurge. Was a very close game. My opponent made a mistake one turn by eliminating all the targets the surge shot at, including one of my y-tides, so couldn't charge the surge into combat against my second Y-tide.

Next turn I dumped out 10 Breachers with a fireblade with the escalation warlord trait that makes my WL's unit twin-linked. I took 4 wounds off the surge, and another 2 off with my Y-tide, blinding it in the process. I killed it on the next turn. That sequence ultimately decided the game, though it was a close run thing. He was very aggressive with the surge, as well he should have been.

Was an absolute slaughter. I won 11-7 on kill points with 2 tetras, 2 Breachers and the fireblade left. He had 4 marker drones and a Crisis suit. Was a really fun game; I'm sure if we played 10 times it'd be 5-5 or close to.

Anyway about the target priority we were both gunning for each others big ticket items. I knew if I killed the surge early I'd probably win. He knew that my army was toothless without the Y-tides. He had a R'Varna as well, and those things are nasty against Tau. I got lucky and out-dueled it in combat with the y-tide.

Speaking of which, the Y'Vahra is absolutely my favorite Tau unit. I only bring them in hard-nosed games but they are absolute rock stars. They fit perfectly with how I like to play my Tau, up close and personal. They just wreck face every time.

In a world where i'm not able to field a bunch of MCs (i've got a single riptide at the moment) what is an effective way to up the amount of AP 1/2 shots in my lists?