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Made in fi
Jervis Johnson






Tau have really been enormously buffed, the more things are coming to light. With an MSU approach (having 3 units always firing at each unit), even so far as taking a lot of one man units, the army is getting basically a free armywide +1 BS. That's crazy. It's a nearly a 17% increase in firepower. The Hunter Contingent units sharing special rules with each other further adds to this. Marker lights will be outrageously powerful now, since multiple units can take advantage of the same one simultaneously. That's a huge damage increase once again.

The army will be really flexible as it can really eliminate any type of unit from the battlefield. It'll win some tournaments, for sure.

Everyone's talking about some really experimental armies, but I'd think the standard triple Riptide double or triple Skyray -template armies will be very good. They've always been good. Now they're just a lot better.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2015/10/26 11:11:22


 
   
Made in au
Irked Necron Immortal





I've never used Gargantuan Creatures before, so I'm not hugely familiar with their rules. I was reading up on them, and I saw they had the Strikedown special rule.

Here's what the Strikedown rule says:
"Any non-vehicle model that suffers one or more unsaved Wounds or passes one or more saving throws against an attack with the Strikedown special rule moves as if it is in difficult terrain until the end of its next turn. It is a good idea to mark affected models with counters or coins so that you remember."

The thing is, the -model- has the rule, not any of the weapons, so how does this work?
   
Made in us
Stealthy Warhound Titan Princeps




Phoenix, AZ, USA

 Dr. Delorean wrote:
I've never used Gargantuan Creatures before, so I'm not hugely familiar with their rules. I was reading up on them, and I saw they had the Strikedown special rule.

Here's what the Strikedown rule says:
"Any non-vehicle model that suffers one or more unsaved Wounds or passes one or more saving throws against an attack with the Strikedown special rule moves as if it is in difficult terrain until the end of its next turn. It is a good idea to mark affected models with counters or coins so that you remember."

The thing is, the -model- has the rule, not any of the weapons, so how does this work?

Techically, because the rule is on the model not the weapons, Strikedown only applies to the model's melee attacks. And since Strikedown has no real purpose in melee, its functional useless as it exists on the model. Barring an FAQ or Errata, that is.

SJ

“For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world.”
- Ephesians 6:12
 
   
Made in us
Fireknife Shas'el





United States

 Dr. Delorean wrote:
I've never used Gargantuan Creatures before, so I'm not hugely familiar with their rules. I was reading up on them, and I saw they had the Strikedown special rule.

Here's what the Strikedown rule says:
"Any non-vehicle model that suffers one or more unsaved Wounds or passes one or more saving throws against an attack with the Strikedown special rule moves as if it is in difficult terrain until the end of its next turn. It is a good idea to mark affected models with counters or coins so that you remember."

The thing is, the -model- has the rule, not any of the weapons, so how does this work?

Melee attacks only.
   
Made in us
Purposeful Hammerhead Pilot






 Therion wrote:
Tau have really been enormously buffed, the more things are coming to light. With an MSU approach (having 3 units always firing at each unit), even so far as taking a lot of one man units, the army is getting basically a free armywide +1 BS. That's crazy. It's a nearly a 17% increase in firepower. The Hunter Contingent units sharing special rules with each other further adds to this. Marker lights will be outrageously powerful now, since multiple units can take advantage of the same one simultaneously. That's a huge damage increase once again.

The army will be really flexible as it can really eliminate any type of unit from the battlefield. It'll win some tournaments, for sure.

Everyone's talking about some really experimental armies, but I'd think the standard triple Riptide double or triple Skyray -template armies will be very good. They've always been good. Now they're just a lot better.


Unfortunately you cannot take very many skyrays in the formation. Only way is 1 skyway with 3 hammerheads.... Kinda weird they didn't make it so you could take them easier

2500 2500 2200  
   
Made in au
Irked Necron Immortal





notredameguy10 wrote:
 Therion wrote:
Tau have really been enormously buffed, the more things are coming to light. With an MSU approach (having 3 units always firing at each unit), even so far as taking a lot of one man units, the army is getting basically a free armywide +1 BS. That's crazy. It's a nearly a 17% increase in firepower. The Hunter Contingent units sharing special rules with each other further adds to this. Marker lights will be outrageously powerful now, since multiple units can take advantage of the same one simultaneously. That's a huge damage increase once again.

The army will be really flexible as it can really eliminate any type of unit from the battlefield. It'll win some tournaments, for sure.

Everyone's talking about some really experimental armies, but I'd think the standard triple Riptide double or triple Skyray -template armies will be very good. They've always been good. Now they're just a lot better.


Unfortunately you cannot take very many skyrays in the formation. Only way is 1 skyway with 3 hammerheads.... Kinda weird they didn't make it so you could take them easier


It's a little less restricted than that, it's three units of hammerheads and one unit of Skyrays, so you could take 3 if you wanted to.
   
Made in us
Big Mek in Kustom Dragster with Soopa-Gun





Nebraska, USA

Strikedown is on his melee attacks, same way Smash works.

Problem with Strikedown (or Concussion for that matter) is its a rule you almost never, ever get to use. Nothing has it that i know of that wont obliterate the target anyway, or is immune to it. And of course, Strikedown means nothing in melee which is odd - you'd think it would kill your WS or something since your legs obviously just got crippled if you treat all terrain as difficult terrain so you clearly cant move as fast in combat.

Technically i Strikedown'd a Ctan with my stormsurge (we just decided to let them fight so i didnt shoot it dead first). But it does nothing in melee so big deal.

And on the skyray bit, remember like Dr. Delorean said theyre in squadrons now. GW seems to getting rid of the solo model mentality, even the BIG SUIT is a damn squadron. I wouldnt doubt it if they make all the Nid MCs squadronable too (except the HQs). Heck, if/when they update the Ork dex i'd be shocked if our walkers and even the Stompa didnt become a squadron.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/10/26 16:26:14


An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.

14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




notredameguy10 wrote:
Unfortunately you cannot take very many skyrays in the formation. Only way is 1 skyway with 3 hammerheads.... Kinda weird they didn't make it so you could take them easier


It's really not weird at all and is one of the few examples of GW actually putting some forethought into their rules.

With the new combined fire thing, Networked Markerlights are genuinely worth their weight in gold. A Skyray, already one of the best units in the codex, would be literally mandatory under the new rules. So now the only way to get networked markers into the Contingent is to pay for a bunch of Hammerheads (or terrible flyers).

Instead, I expect we'll see a lot of add-on CADs that go:

Darkstrider
2 Kroot
3 Skyrays
   
Made in us
Shas'la with Pulse Carbine





It would have been nice if skyrays were included in the hunter cadre, but alas they were not. But yeah, I can definitely see a basic CAD being run to get darkstrider and more skyrays.

Down with Allies, Solo 2016! 
   
Made in us
Shas'o Commanding the Hunter Kadre




Olympia, WA

Seeing CAD's used in general is a positive anyways. My tournaments always allow two detachments, but three if the third one is a CAD. That eliminates a lot of broken things. War convocations and the Company Support special ability for Space Marines both come to mind.

Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com

7th Ambassadorial Grand Tournament Registration: http://40kambassadors.com/register.php 
   
Made in us
Shas'la with Pulse Carbine





So are people going to be running the hunter cadre? If so, are you doing a min or max one? I can see an argument both ways. Doing a min to save space for more aux formations. But maxing it wouldn't hurt either.

For about 750 you can get into one with min troops, a riptide, and a unit of broadsides. That might be pretty good at that point level.

Down with Allies, Solo 2016! 
   
Made in il
Warplord Titan Princeps of Tzeentch






What do you mean by max?

Because you can't even come close to fulling up the core hunter cadre alone in 2000 points.
A "full" hunter cadre can contain commander, 9 bodyguards, 27 crisis, 72 strikers in 6 Devilfish, 72 drones and 9 hammerheads.

The formation is seriously not limited by size, only choices.

can neither confirm nor deny I lost track of what I've got right now. 
   
Made in us
Shas'la with Pulse Carbine





Good point, I guess I meant more in the terms of more filled in.

Down with Allies, Solo 2016! 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut



Orlando

Sticking to a CAD. I prefer my FW suits and Tetras along with a couple formations. I have been waiting on something like the Stealth suit formation for years.

Infantrymen do not die, they go to heaven and regroup. 
   
Made in us
Fireknife Shas'el





United States

 BoomWolf wrote:
What do you mean by max?

Because you can't even come close to fulling up the core hunter cadre alone in 2000 points.
A "full" hunter cadre can contain commander, 9 bodyguards, 27 crisis, 72 strikers in 6 Devilfish, 72 drones and 9 hammerheads.

The formation is seriously not limited by size, only choices.
This is wrong because you are required to take a bunch more stuff than just some troops, bodyguards, and a commander. It is incredibly easy to fill 2000 points with the hunter cadre alone.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The more I look at the hunter Cadre, the more I'm convinced I just want to run CADs.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/10/27 19:14:31


 
   
Made in us
Big Mek in Kustom Dragster with Soopa-Gun





Nebraska, USA

Edit: nevermind

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/10/27 19:19:04


An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.

14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys 
   
Made in us
Shas'o Commanding the Hunter Kadre




Olympia, WA

Who thinks they will get the new codex, vs. using their old codex and just getting the campaign book?

Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com

7th Ambassadorial Grand Tournament Registration: http://40kambassadors.com/register.php 
   
Made in us
Shas'la with Pulse Carbine





I think I'm planning on getting the new codex. I like just using one source for simplicity.

Down with Allies, Solo 2016! 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




So are people going to be running the hunter cadre?
Definitely. That's going to be the most competitive way to do things, I believe. The buff sharing is way too good to pass up.

I think I'm planning on getting the new codex. I like just using one source for simplicity.
Same here. I don't want to be rifling through multiple sources if I don't have to.
   
Made in us
Tunneling Trygon





NJ

What if you have O'Vesa join a unit of optimized stealth suits from the formation? Does he gain the formation benefits? It sounds like it means just the suits gain the benefit, but it looks like it's saying that the whole unit benefits...and when you're an IC.....
[Thumb - image.png]

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/10/28 00:18:57


 
   
Made in us
Big Mek in Kustom Dragster with Soopa-Gun





Nebraska, USA

Thats a pretty sneaky loophole now that i think about it.

ICs joining a squad has never changed its classification, so they would still be considered Stealth Suits. Everyone already assumed people would be slapping Shadowsun in there for a duo of BS6 meltas to a vehicle's butt, so why not another IC?

Then again, arent you required to have Farsight be your warlord to get Ovesa? Im not sure how you could get him as a warlord and still bring this formation, since Farsight Enclaves are considered allies to Tau Empire.

An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.

14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys 
   
Made in br
Fireknife Shas'el




Lisbon, Portugal

It won't be easy to join him to them. He cannot enter the Ghostkeel unit, neither the Stealth Suits, before the game starts.

 Vineheart01 wrote:

Then again, arent you required to have Farsight be your warlord to get Ovesa? Im not sure how you could get him as a warlord and still bring this formation, since Farsight Enclaves are considered allies to Tau Empire.


While you need Farsight to get O'Vesa, all you need is a FSE CAD and this formation.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/10/28 00:52:15


AI & BFG: / BMG: Mr. Freeze, Deathstroke / Battletech: SR, OWA / HGB: Caprice / Malifaux: Arcanists, Guild, Outcasts / MCP: Mutants / SAGA: Ordensstaat / SW Legion & X-Wing: CIS / WWX: Union

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
"FW is unbalanced and going to ruin tournaments."
"Name one where it did that."
"IT JUST DOES OKAY!"

 Shadenuat wrote:
Voted Astra Militarum for a chance for them to get nerfed instead of my own army.
 
   
Made in us
Big Mek in Kustom Dragster with Soopa-Gun





Nebraska, USA

Not like that matters.

Ovesa isnt easy to pick off since he is a riptide, and Stealthsuits are only easily removed up close and personal unless you face the oddball that actually brings hard counters to them (if they even have them available) Ghostkeels already force the stealthsuits to deploy near your deployment zone anyway since they dont have infiltrate (oddly enough)

Dont forget Ovesa has two drones he is required to take. So if somethind DOES actually pen his armor and threaten him, 2+ look out sir ftw.

On that note, i kinda wish they'd put a blip about IC's that are MCs can join squads of MCs. Then again i think thats pretty much a Tau benefit only so doubt that'd happen.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/10/28 00:56:09


An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.

14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys 
   
Made in us
Tunneling Trygon





NJ

 Vector Strike wrote:
It won't be easy to join him to them. He cannot enter the Ghostkeel unit, neither the Stealth Suits, before the game starts.

 Vineheart01 wrote:

Then again, arent you required to have Farsight be your warlord to get Ovesa? Im not sure how you could get him as a warlord and still bring this formation, since Farsight Enclaves are considered allies to Tau Empire.


While you need Farsight to get O'Vesa, all you need is a FSE CAD and this formation.


Why can't O'Vesa join the unit of suits during deployment?
   
Made in us
Big Mek in Kustom Dragster with Soopa-Gun





Nebraska, USA

Infiltration rule bullcrap. ICs cannot join units with Infiltrate and vice versa (faq adds that last bit).
Which is completely stupid. It should be "If an IC joins a unit with Infiltration and doesnt have it himself, the unit cannot Infiltrate and vice versa"
Makes no sense that you are forced to deploy one or the other without the IC in the group, even though they still deploy right next to each other to ensure they can group up asap.

Once the game starts, no restriction. Its deployment that its a problem.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/10/28 03:20:42


An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.

14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys 
   
Made in us
Shas'o Commanding the Hunter Kadre




Olympia, WA

I like how they do it though. there are certain things that really aren't intended and if you want to do them, fine. But there's risk. I dunno. It seems like any time the rules dont let you do something silly, someone doesnt like it but honestly if 6E taught me anything, its that the world DOES need Dungeon Masters. Good ones. Lol.

Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com

7th Ambassadorial Grand Tournament Registration: http://40kambassadors.com/register.php 
   
Made in us
Tunneling Trygon





NJ

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Infiltration rule bullcrap. ICs cannot join units with Infiltrate and vice versa (faq adds that last bit).
Which is completely stupid. It should be "If an IC joins a unit with Infiltration and doesnt have it himself, the unit cannot Infiltrate and vice versa"
Makes no sense that you are forced to deploy one or the other without the IC in the group, even though they still deploy right next to each other to ensure they can group up asap.

Once the game starts, no restriction. Its deployment that its a problem.


I always assumed that that was only the case if the unit with the special rule was actually deploying via infiltration. If you're not actually infiltrating, are you sure that there's actually a restriction? The obvious intent was to stop an IC from conferring infiltrate onto a squad and vice versa. But if you deploy a group of models with the "infiltrate" special rule normally during your standard deployment, are they still "infiltrators"? I don't think so. I think the term "infiltrator" could be defined as "a model in the act/process of infiltrating".

Now, am I going to run O'Vesa? Probably not. But it would be interesting to make O'Vesa star 2.0, if that's possible. Just so see how things might be different now.
   
Made in us
Big Mek in Kustom Dragster with Soopa-Gun





Nebraska, USA

Admittedly most people probably wouldnt care, but technically you cant deploy infiltrate units normally. The rules say they "are" deployed differently, not "may" and people love hanging on those words. Only option it gives is if you want them in reserves.

Which is why i play logically not RAW. Crap like that that makes absolutely no sense that you can or cant do it doesnt fly for me.

An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.

14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys 
   
Made in no
Sister Oh-So Repentia




Norway

Is there any definitive information about how the ruling on the TAU tidewall for units that don't fit on the battlements or droneport area? For 265 points its really expensive, and I feel it's only worth it if I can use it with missilesides to protect them from mawlocs and S8 ap2, but I am not sure how well they fit on there. The KV128 Stormsurge could also be placed on top of the drone port, to allow it to move around when in siege mode, but it would look shady as poo. Even if these things were allowed, and I think the shield/barricade is an excelent place to put pathfinders, I am still not sure if 265 points is worth it.

I have seen very little discussion around the Stormsurge, is it not considered to be a good? I mean, obviously it's good, but is it worth the point cost. I also noticed one place that the missiles on the Stormsurge get upgraded from S8 to SD if you expend markerlight markers in the new codex. Is this true, and how OP is this potentially?

I really want to run the new Hunter Contingent, but I have no idea what to put in a Hunter Cardre. I usually play with a Farsight enclave army, and I have no idea how to use 3 units of firewarriors. Breachers would be good, but without over priced devilfish or some kind of infiltrate (they don't right?) or deep strike then I am not sure how to get them into 5". Really love the idea of a support commander in this formation, but I will miss the MLs from the dronemander and since I want to use one of the two heavy support slots for KV128, that means I only have room for 1 Sky ray.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh I am stupid, just realized that Sky rays can be taken in units of 3 in the new codex, so one heavy support slot is enough, How I will get the points for everything is another matter.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/10/28 10:01:28


 
   
Made in us
Fireknife Shas'el





United States

 Acidian wrote:
Is there any definitive information about how the ruling on the TAU tidewall for units that don't fit on the battlements or droneport area? For 265 points its really expensive, and I feel it's only worth it if I can use it with missilesides to protect them from mawlocs and S8 ap2, but I am not sure how well they fit on there. The KV128 Stormsurge could also be placed on top of the drone port, to allow it to move around when in siege mode, but it would look shady as poo. Even if these things were allowed, and I think the shield/barricade is an excelent place to put pathfinders, I am still not sure if 265 points is worth it.

I have seen very little discussion around the Stormsurge, is it not considered to be a good? I mean, obviously it's good, but is it worth the point cost. I also noticed one place that the missiles on the Stormsurge get upgraded from S8 to SD if you expend markerlight markers in the new codex. Is this true, and how OP is this potentially?

I really want to run the new Hunter Contingent, but I have no idea what to put in a Hunter Cardre. I usually play with a Farsight enclave army, and I have no idea how to use 3 units of firewarriors. Breachers would be good, but without over priced devilfish or some kind of infiltrate (they don't right?) or deep strike then I am not sure how to get them into 5". Really love the idea of a support commander in this formation, but I will miss the MLs from the dronemander and since I want to use one of the two heavy support slots for KV128, that means I only have room for 1 Sky ray.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh I am stupid, just realized that Sky rays can be taken in units of 3 in the new codex, so one heavy support slot is enough, How I will get the points for everything is another matter.

Not sure about the tidewall, but I am sure about the stormsurge. From what I've heard, the people who have used them in games have found them to be incredible, nearly game-winning, units.
   
 
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