luke1705 wrote:
Yeah the stealth cadre is nuts. I think you can fit two in an 1850 without being too unbalanced (and that is literally how I wanted to play Tau even before these formations came out). I'm also anticipating having a good time with breacher squads getting all up in people's faces.

The loss of obsec (especially if you want to bring along transport toys) isn't nothing, and people keep forgetting about that each time a decurion-style detachment comes out. I still field Necron and Eldar CADs because they are just superior (IMO) with obsec. Of course, if you can field 4 Wraithknights, maybe not so much, but with a 0-1 limit on LOW squads, I think it's pretty reasonable.

I think you'll also see a lot of the stealth cadre with TauDar/other allies. It's that good.

What I wonder is if markerlights will become more or less necessary. With +1 BS for the stealth cadre, as well as full squads of broadsides and riptides, as well as buffmander giving everyone all the special rules (TL, ignores cover, etc) and being able to share markerlights if you're shooting at the same unit, I feel like you can get away with a good amount less.

 Jancoran wrote:
I disagree. The Marker drones with Buffmander are awesome and the Sniper Drone Teams with Marksmen are equally worthy. Pathfinders are my assassins, not my markerlights.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Vivid illustration provided:

How to use Pathfinders to kill everyone by Jancoran

 Jancoran wrote:
Ignoring cover thing is kinda a big deal. You need Markerlights.

 Therion wrote:
Tau have really been enormously buffed, the more things are coming to light. With an MSU approach (having 3 units always firing at each unit), even so far as taking a lot of one man units, the army is getting basically a free armywide +1 BS. That's crazy. It's a nearly a 17% increase in firepower. The Hunter Contingent units sharing special rules with each other further adds to this. Marker lights will be outrageously powerful now, since multiple units can take advantage of the same one simultaneously. That's a huge damage increase once again.

The army will be really flexible as it can really eliminate any type of unit from the battlefield. It'll win some tournaments, for sure.

Everyone's talking about some really experimental armies, but I'd think the standard triple Riptide double or triple Skyray -template armies will be very good. They've always been good. Now they're just a lot better.

 Jancoran wrote:

jakejackjake wrote:

Nothing in the game can hit the SS in a Tau army with melta T1. That's just not accurate dude. The entire point of the Tau army is you can't alpha strike or alpha beta strike them. Not if the Tau player is good. That's what EWO and the 72 inch range is for

Umm... Nothing in the game eh? hehehe.

No idea what you're talking about here. yes. You can absolutely can bring a ton of melta turn one. I can shoot the Storm Surge with a whopping 30 Meltaguns in turn one and they ignore cover. Nothing is going to save it from my Adepta Sororitas.

Now you know.

Razerous wrote:

The Taucurion (Hunter Contingent)
=Multi-Unit shooting, to share Markerlights & +1BS buff (the 'weaker' version should be the one assumed, as well.. it is (perhaps silly?) wishful thinking to assume otherwise.. giveN the scope of the 'powerful' version).

 Tinkrr wrote:
Don't forget, with a drone controller the drones also have significantly better BS than Pathfinders when running with a Buffmander.

More so, you can get Target Lock on your suits rather cheaply, so you can have your Marker Drones fire at one target, while your Suits go for a completely different one, and your Buffmander helps both D:


Tau can really gain a ton of Markerlights in very hidden ways, that don't force Pathfinder groups. Everything from Drones, Skyrays, Fireblades, FW leader upgrades, Tetras, and so forth. If anything, it might just be reasonable to take Pathfinders with special weapons at this point.

 jeffersonian000 wrote:

Grundwels wrote:
How are you playing the new combined fire rule? All shooting units as one unit, sharing most abilities. I really want to play it like that, but it sounds very powerful. But using just markerlights for the combined fire rule, would be not that great, compared to other contingent rules.

I'm going to pick three or more units, select one target, and shoot with all of the models in those three units as if they were a single unit including all rules. As far as I'm concerned, once you declare those units as combining their fire, those units are treated as a single unit during that shooting. I'm still not fully convenced that Target Lock would allow splitting of fire, due to the wording of combined fire require all models to shoot at one target appears to be more specific.

SJ

 jeffersonian000 wrote:

notredameguy10 wrote:

 jeffersonian000 wrote:

Grundwels wrote:
How are you playing the new combined fire rule? All shooting units as one unit, sharing most abilities. I really want to play it like that, but it sounds very powerful. But using just markerlights for the combined fire rule, would be not that great, compared to other contingent rules.

I'm going to pick three or more units, select one target, and shoot with all of the models in those three units as if they were a single unit including all rules. As far as I'm concerned, once you declare those units as combining their fire, those units are treated as a single unit during that shooting. I'm still not fully convenced that Target Lock would allow splitting of fire, due to the wording of combined fire require all models to shoot at one target appears to be more specific.

SJ

No where in the rule does it use the word "model". It only ever says "unit". The UNITS must shoot at the same target, which they are. One model in that unit is shooting another target thanks to target lock, but that doesn't change the fact that the unit is still shooting at the first target.

Still not a convincing argument. If one model is not shooting at the same target as the rest, you can't say the unit is shooting at the same target.

SJ

 Cptn_Snuggles wrote:
So I see others posting combining firepower with one unit with a drone controller and a seperate unit of drones. Would this work? I could see a unit of sniper drone controllers acting as a mark'o when combined with a seperate unit of marker drones tagging the same unit.

Thanks,
Brian

 Tinkrr wrote:

MilkmanAl wrote:

So i just had a Coldstar commander severely piss off an IG player lol. Flew behind him and peppered the rear ends of two leman russ tanks to death. Oh that was so satisfying rofl.

I want the Coldstar to be good. I really do. I just don't see it as anything more than a novelty, though. There are lots of better, cheaper options to get that sort of firepower.

I know it's not exactly the best source for data points, but the Mini Wargaming guys did do some battle reports where they used what the believed were competitive lists and the Tau player did use the Coldstar to some reasonable effect. (One of the Battle Reports with Eldar vs. Tau, multiple Wraith Knights and the like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxPbKjf5Evs )

I think the fact that it's not that good is something that makes it that much more likely to survive and get shots off on random things, since it's kind of a pain to kill it as is, and there are larger priority targets with much better fire power, so it's basically a mosquito people are more likely to ignore while focusing on things like Broadsides or Stormsurges. That doesn't mean it's exactly great, but at least it's playable in the sense that it can be a squad on its own, that will generally get some value.

Edit: Realistically you're not paying that much for the flying buff, since if you do the math as 1.5 twin linked Burst Cannons and 1 missile pod, the flight upgrade only costs 22 points, which is a little pricey but not as bad as viewing it as 60 points. You're also gaining 2.5 weapons on the model, as opposed to 2, and you can even argue it's 4 weapons because it's a Twin Linked Burst Cannon that functions as one and a half normal burst cannons. Which really just forces you to ask the question if your list wants that kind of weapon load out on a model like that, which could be the case, but it's not something you'd slot into your list normally, since it's somewhat redundant.

 Tinkrr wrote:

notredameguy10 wrote:

 Tinkrr wrote:

MilkmanAl wrote:

So i just had a Coldstar commander severely piss off an IG player lol. Flew behind him and peppered the rear ends of two leman russ tanks to death. Oh that was so satisfying rofl.

I want the Coldstar to be good. I really do. I just don't see it as anything more than a novelty, though. There are lots of better, cheaper options to get that sort of firepower.

I know it's not exactly the best source for data points, but the Mini Wargaming guys did do some battle reports where they used what the believed were competitive lists and the Tau player did use the Coldstar to some reasonable effect. (One of the Battle Reports with Eldar vs. Tau, multiple Wraith Knights and the like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxPbKjf5Evs )

I think the fact that it's not that good is something that makes it that much more likely to survive and get shots off on random things, since it's kind of a pain to kill it as is, and there are larger priority targets with much better fire power, so it's basically a mosquito people are more likely to ignore while focusing on things like Broadsides or Stormsurges. That doesn't mean it's exactly great, but at least it's playable in the sense that it can be a squad on its own, that will generally get some value.

Edit: Realistically you're not paying that much for the flying buff, since if you do the math as 1.5 twin linked Burst Cannons and 1 missile pod, the flight upgrade only costs 22 points, which is a little pricey but not as bad as viewing it as 60 points. You're also gaining 2.5 weapons on the model, as opposed to 2, and you can even argue it's 4 weapons because it's a Twin Linked Burst Cannon that functions as one and a half normal burst cannons. Which really just forces you to ask the question if your list wants that kind of weapon load out on a model like that, which could be the case, but it's not something you'd slot into your list normally, since it's somewhat redundant.

There are 3 main problems with Coldstar:
T4 makes him such a liability as a flier. One unsaved wound can cause an insta kill from falling.
He cannot take the Iridium armor (T5, 2+ save) which is almost a must.
Having both a Burst Cannon and Missile Pods are not the most ideal combination of weapons.

Yes, yes, and yes.

He's not a main feature of an army, and I don't want to give the impression that I think it's a good power unit, I just think there are situations where you can field one and accomplish something, but it's definitely a model that's intended to be another unit in your army instead of the star. I'm just saying if you really want that kind of Burst Cannon heavy load out on a flying model then the Coldstar is a reasonable annoyance for the opponent since they'll usually sink more fire power into it than most other things, or simply ignore it as most people should.

MilkmanAl wrote:
Am I interpreting the new FSE auxiliary formations correctlyin that you can essentially use the Piranha formation to generate 32 gun drones PER TURN? That seems...uh...maybe more than a little broken. Slap 2 of those babies and a Hunter Cadre in and 1850 for 64 new BS5 gun drones every turn. Seems fair.

 Fruzzle wrote:

 Vector Strike wrote:

Nilok wrote:Assuming O'vesa retains the IC rule, you can take a min Ethereal Council and slap O'vesa on to make it T6.

Fruzzle wrote:CounterStrike Cadre
1 Patherfinder, 3x strike/breach.
Devilfish get Fast on the first turn, So so, not that interesting but its a nice foundation for 3 teams + etheral fish of fury attack
Re-roll within 3'' of an objectives. This is really nice for the pathfinders (re-roll markelights baby) and situational for the rest.
It's a decent formation but all things can be better taken elsewhere and markerlight (and pathfinders) are better taken from different formations.

I really like this with Breachers. 10 of them firing at 5" at a Tervigon will kill it even with FnP (without MLs!), if my calculations are correct.
Or to clean Deep Strikers from your zone.

Fruzzle wrote:Ranged Support Cadre
3x Pathfinder
3x Broadside team
Broadsides can use a markerlight from these pathfinders as 2 markerlight tokens.
Pathfinders get shrouded if not moving.
So this is one place where you're better of taking the pathfinders from. Shrouded is a huge buff. (park them in terrain or behind adl for 2+ cover save! suddenly they're survivable!)
Broadsides using tokens as 2... its good. even 3x4 man pathfinder squads generate effectively 12 markerlight tokens for the broadsides. The downside? Other units often benefit more from tokens than broadsides being already twin linked and (usually) only AP4, ignore cover is of limited benefit. It's still a pretty decent firebase and probably the real succesor to the old FBSC. You can't go wrong but.... not super amazing either.

You forgot the Infiltrate Pathfinders get from this. Yep, best place to use them in a Dawn Blade Detachment. And I like accurate shots, so I'd use those many MLs for BS5 and Ignores Cover


Drones from vehicles don't give KPs. And the drones wouldn't start that far - you can only disembark if you move 6", not combat speed. With Thrust they could go further, of course.

You did forget that, once per game, they can fire their main weapon 2x and the secondary 4x (if you did choose to Ripple Fire at the start of the turn).

Hehe I forgot those! The infiltrate makes that formation even better, and I also forgot the across the table overwatch! It is really an excellent formation which gets a little overshadowed by the Piranaha's. . And about the disembark. Yeah that Piranaha formation is going to be excellent. The beauty is your enemy can't even stop your farm unless he gets first turn.
The only weakeness? after turn 3/4 you're better of attacking I'm sure because the drones are going to be to slow to impact the game because of the distance they can travel.
But that's also fine! Spawn drones for 3 turns than do what piranaha's do! Score linebreaker, block movement and hose infantry. (And whoops sorry I melta's your tank (But probably drop pod).

Fruzzle wrote:
My first impression of the new Mont'ka formations:*Snip*
I feel currently Tau need a Culexus assassin to really compete in tournaments. And (s)he/it should be in a drop pod.

My reasoning is that if we can shoot it and kill it we have a chance to win any game. But there are things we can't kill because of Psychic powers.
My list of things i"m scared of:
-(jetbike) Seer Council
-Screamers with 2++
-Invisible marine deadstar on bikes.
-Cent Star

How about forcing through markerlights? Seems a bit more viable to mass them up now? Maybe?

Well against seer council without invis it's okay but with invis... even if you get 3/4 markerlights on them you still can't fire blast weapons (Ion Accelartor, pulse driver)
Against 2++ screamers... I really doesn't matter how much firepower you have. 1/36 WOUNDS causes a wound. 9 screamers have 18 wounds. If its firewarriors you need...
648 wound caused to kill a unit. If str 8 and above its half that nr. That's 1296 hits, The number might as well be infinite. Basically you can't (and shouldn't even try to) touch the unit as long as the buffs are up. (Interestingly, the stormsurge can tie it in combat pretty well, and with some lucky 6's, there are worse things you can do.

Cent star, bike star, same as seer council. Even if you get the markerlights we still can't fire our effective weapons (Ion accelerators and pulse drivers). (But the cent star is the most kill-able of them all, but also the most killy. I've sometimes won, sometimes lost vs them, always ended up ignoring as best as I can. But.... played with culexus pod once. Suddenly ridiculously easy.

DirtyDeeds wrote:
I think the Riptide Wing could potentially be the scariest formation we could muster. A core eith the retaliation cadre, riptide wing, and drones for markerlight support could offer devastating alpha and beta strikes.

DirtyDeeds wrote:

notredameguy10 wrote:

DirtyDeeds wrote:
I think the Riptide Wing could potentially be the scariest formation we could muster. A core eith the retaliation cadre, riptide wing, and drones for markerlight support could offer devastating alpha and beta strikes.

I think people are over exaggerating the riptide wing.

Yes it is good, but there are limitations:

1.) BS buffing is much worse than in Hunter Contingent. In riptide wing if all 3 shoot at the same target; 1 get BS3 and the other 2 get BS4. In hunter Contingent, all 3 get BS 5 (fire team and coordinated Firepower).

2.) Rerolling nova reactor is amazing yes. But it also forces them to remain within 6" of each other, severely limiting board control as that is a big portion of your army

3.) 1 round of double firing is great. The main problem is not being able to move OR Jetpack move that turn. If you want to be able to use your secondary weapons for the quad ripple effect, your 3 riptides are going to have to be within 18" of the enemy for an entire turn BEFORE being able to double tap. And anything not killed will most certainly be in CC with your Riptides that turn after firing as well.

Why not use SMS and remain stationary at 30 inches turn 1? Now you're shooting either 8 sms or 16 at 30 inches with this rule. I would also like to point out that we're talking about ways to use the Dawn Blade detachment, not the Hunter Contingent. I would also like to point out that in order for a squad of Riptides to get bs 5 there must be three in the same squad and then must be shooting with two other units. Who would dedicated that many points into one unit? To mitigate the lack of fireteam and coordinated firepower bonuses you could simoly use the Drone formation for a couple squads of bs 3 drones to help land that alpha strike.

DirtyDeeds wrote:

notredameguy10 wrote:

DirtyDeeds wrote:

notredameguy10 wrote:

DirtyDeeds wrote:
I think the Riptide Wing could potentially be the scariest formation we could muster. A core eith the retaliation cadre, riptide wing, and drones for markerlight support could offer devastating alpha and beta strikes.

I think people are over exaggerating the riptide wing.

Yes it is good, but there are limitations:

1.) BS buffing is much worse than in Hunter Contingent. In riptide wing if all 3 shoot at the same target; 1 get BS3 and the other 2 get BS4. In hunter Contingent, all 3 get BS 5 (fire team and coordinated Firepower).

2.) Rerolling nova reactor is amazing yes. But it also forces them to remain within 6" of each other, severely limiting board control as that is a big portion of your army

3.) 1 round of double firing is great. The main problem is not being able to move OR Jetpack move that turn. If you want to be able to use your secondary weapons for the quad ripple effect, your 3 riptides are going to have to be within 18" of the enemy for an entire turn BEFORE being able to double tap. And anything not killed will most certainly be in CC with your Riptides that turn after firing as well.

Why not use SMS and remain stationary at 30 inches turn 1? Now you're shooting either 8 sms or 16 at 30 inches with this rule. I would also like to point out that we're talking about ways to use the Dawn Blade detachment, not the Hunter Contingent. I would also like to point out that in order for a squad of Riptides to get bs 5 there must be three in the same squad and then must be shooting with two other units. Who would dedicated that many points into one unit? To mitigate the lack of fireteam and coordinated firepower bonuses you could simoly use the Drone formation for a couple squads of bs 3 drones to help land that alpha strike.

Nope for the riptides to get bs 5 they can be 3 separate squads of 1 model each. If all three combine fire they get +1 from coordinated firepower and another +1 for fire team since there are 3 MC firing as if the same unit and at least one has the fire team special rule

And i understand you were talking about dawn blade. I was merely stating comparing riptide wing to using riptides in hunter contingent.

Ok, but then you still need THREE Riptides to fire at the same unit to get BS 5. The Riptide Wing allows the allocation of your sources at multiple targets in the same shooting phase. Flood the board with little Marker Drones and you can help boost the damage potential of the Riptide Wing's alpha strike.

DirtyDeeds wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
@DirtyDeeds that literally removes the point of both formations lol. They could always act independently with marker support, the formations are suppose to let them hit harder if they focus fire but they dont have to.

And i dont max the units out either, though i buy shield gens (in retal cadre). Maxing them out would be above 2k points alone lol, before buying any drones.

The point I'm trying to get at is this formation has incredible damage potential. It allows a minimum of three Riptides yo have two shooting phases in one turn. Depending on the configuration, 6 pie plates, or 72 str 6 rending shots in one turn. Holy sh*t.

 Grizzyzz wrote:
While we are all on the subject of the Riptide wing. Would the extra firing allow you to:

Make interceptor shots and still have a round of normal shooting?

 BoomWolf wrote:
My issue with it us, even though it's a good call - if it was an imperial army it would be made to share. The main reason itc voting ruled against is that it's a xeno army rather than because it was the right call.

Requizen wrote:
Ion seems especially nice with the +1 BS boost, mitigates the somewhat problematic 3 shots but hitting on 4+.

In the Riptide Wing, where I'm bringing 3 separate ones, do you think it's better to mix/match the weapons or stick with one type? And if I mixed them, which version should get 2?

Requizen wrote:

notredameguy10 wrote:

Requizen wrote:
Ion seems especially nice with the +1 BS boost, mitigates the somewhat problematic 3 shots but hitting on 4+.

In the Riptide Wing, where I'm bringing 3 separate ones, do you think it's better to mix/match the weapons or stick with one type? And if I mixed them, which version should get 2?

Personally, I would go with 2 IA and 1 HBC. 2 will have Target locks on them any who so it doesn't matter if you mix and match.

Well you don't need Target Locks since the Riptide Wing formation is 3 separate units, not one unit of 3.

Requizen wrote:
Are the Drones worth it for the Riptide? I could see having 2 extra 4++ wounds as a nice boost, but 25 points per Drone seems pretty steep.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
No, stay away from them.

Theyre 25pts each, which is 2x +1 the cost of normal Drones for no real benefit (they still die to Bolter spam just as easy, even though theyre T6)
When ANY drone dies, the Riptide is forced to leadership test. Considering they offer very little protection/dakka for the cost, the very easy free LD test for your opponent to force is too risky.

Ive literally never taken them. Ever. Too expensive for a BS2 MP that happens to have a Shield Gen even though he will never use it.
Its why i hate Shield Drones to begin with. All drones die just as fast regardless of toughness/armor/shields because all you gotta do is hit them with some anti-troop weapon and they die - exposing the suit behind them to the big guns anyway.

Only reason they arent bad on Ovesa (the named character riptide for Farsight users) is because he can use his own armor on the anti-troop crap and LoS the AP2 stuff, so they actually get used right. Normal riptides cant do that, and you cant put Ovesa in the Riptide Wing either.

 Grizzyzz wrote:

DirtyDeeds wrote:

... I have recieved so much gak since this codex came out that I'm trying to find another club.

Aye, that is a shame. But people generally freak out when an army they don't play becomes better then the one they do. A few of my friends have put 40k aside as soon as Tau dropped because of the way the power levels seem to be being altered too.

That said, I also play Eldar, and they have alot of good stuff, but I don't "simply win cause Eldar" as most people say. I have alot of good players in my meta, and constantly have very close games. Eldar, Tau, Crons.. all great, not all unbeatable in all aspects of the game.

DirtyDeeds wrote:

notredameguy10 wrote:

 Grizzyzz wrote:

DirtyDeeds wrote:

... I have recieved so much gak since this codex came out that I'm trying to find another club.

Aye, that is a shame. But people generally freak out when an army they don't play becomes better then the one they do. A few of my friends have put 40k aside as soon as Tau dropped because of the way the power levels seem to be being altered too.

That said, I also play Eldar, and they have alot of good stuff, but I don't "simply win cause Eldar" as most people say. I have alot of good players in my meta, and constantly have very close games. Eldar, Tau, Crons.. all great, not all unbeatable in all aspects of the game.

The main issue I have with Tau codex vs Eldar codex is the internal balance. Even though elder have a few way to good units for the cost (Wraithknight, scat bikes, etc), they have very good internal balance. You can basically take any unit in the codex, except maybe shinning spears, and make a great, competitive army. Tau, on the other hand, have less units to begin with, and then you have to throw out vespids, kroot, kroot hound, krootox rider, devilfish, and both flyers as just not that great. That leaves most Tau armies having extremely similar builds if they want to be competitive: i.e Riptides, stormsurges, broadsides and ghostkeels

How is this any different from Eldar? Most competitive Eldar builds include at least one Farseer, many scatter bikes, and at least one Wraithknight.

DirtyDeeds wrote:

notredameguy10 wrote:

DirtyDeeds wrote:

notredameguy10 wrote:

 Grizzyzz wrote:

DirtyDeeds wrote:

... I have recieved so much gak since this codex came out that I'm trying to find another club.

Aye, that is a shame. But people generally freak out when an army they don't play becomes better then the one they do. A few of my friends have put 40k aside as soon as Tau dropped because of the way the power levels seem to be being altered too.

That said, I also play Eldar, and they have alot of good stuff, but I don't "simply win cause Eldar" as most people say. I have alot of good players in my meta, and constantly have very close games. Eldar, Tau, Crons.. all great, not all unbeatable in all aspects of the game.

The main issue I have with Tau codex vs Eldar codex is the internal balance. Even though elder have a few way to good units for the cost (Wraithknight, scat bikes, etc), they have very good internal balance. You can basically take any unit in the codex, except maybe shinning spears, and make a great, competitive army. Tau, on the other hand, have less units to begin with, and then you have to throw out vespids, kroot, kroot hound, krootox rider, devilfish, and both flyers as just not that great. That leaves most Tau armies having extremely similar builds if they want to be competitive: i.e Riptides, stormsurges, broadsides and ghostkeels

How is this any different from Eldar? Most competitive Eldar builds include at least one Farseer, many scatter bikes, and at least one Wraithknight.

Competitive in terms of winning a tournament? then yes.

Competitive in terms of being able to win at your local club? then no.

An Eldar list with no wraithknights, scatter bikes, wave serpents, or wraithguard vs a tau list with no stormsurges, riptides, broadsides, or ghost keel.

Elder still have swooping hawks, war walkers, warp spiders, and fire dragons. All of which are still amazing.

My point is, you can still make great elder lists even ignoring the few OP units. Tau cannot which i do not like.

That's because we have units; i.e. the battlesuit, that can fill very different roles based upon weapon selection, the Eldar do not have such luxury. I do agree that a Tau list will be monochromatic without our MCs, but you can still build an effective list out of Battlesuits and our new Breachers.

Requizen wrote:
Sorry to derail, but for that Riptide Wing that I was thinking of going, would this be good?

Riptide (Ion Accelerator, Stimulant Injector, Early Warning Override)
Riptide (Ion Accelerator, Stimulant Injector, Early Warning Override)
Riptide (Heavy Burst Cannon, Stimulant Injector, Velocity Tracker)

I figure having the blast Interceptors and 12 shots at Flyers is a good combo. I like the Stimulant Injectors, but they're pretty expensive, maybe not on all of them?

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Stims on an HBC even in the formation are very, very crucial. HBC riptides take a lot more damage than Iontides both because of the mass of Gets Hot, required Nova tests, but also because they sit closer than Iontides.

The stims on the Iontides could be dropped to shave points, since its not AS crucial, but if you arent stressed for points i'd keep them. I usually dont even fill that 2nd support slot if i opt out of stims because nothing else really works (cant precision shot a blast and its alone so no Targetlock requirement)

It might not be as bad in the Riptide wing, but ive ran the ECPA Bursttide a few times and he still takes a ton of self-inflicted damage. Stims are so mandatory on him imo.

 Vineheart01 wrote:

DirtyDeeds wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Stims on an HBC even in the formation are very, very crucial. HBC riptides take a lot more damage than Iontides both because of the mass of Gets Hot, required Nova tests, but also because they sit closer than Iontides.

The stims on the Iontides could be dropped to shave points, since its not AS crucial, but if you arent stressed for points i'd keep them. I usually dont even fill that 2nd support slot if i opt out of stims because nothing else really works (cant precision shot a blast and its alone so no Targetlock requirement)

It might not be as bad in the Riptide wing, but ive ran the ECPA Bursttide a few times and he still takes a ton of self-inflicted damage. Stims are so mandatory on him imo.

Or you can boost your BS to 6 which allows you to reroll 1's to hit.

Never underestimate the HBC while Nova Charged. I recommend two of them.

1) ECPA rerolls 1s as it is, and i said i still take decent self-inflicted damage with it. It helps but it isnt foolproof.
2) He's a necron player allying in a Riptide Wing - he wont have marker support