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I've been reading the rules and i've come to find that since snipers are rending weapons then that means they could be tank killers aswell..

Say a Sniper hits something with armour thats 12-10

you roll a 6 on the pen on all three so you roll another D3 Di and get a 5 or 6..

so adding it up the weapon itself is stated to be strength 3, with the 6 to pen it becomes strength 9, and with the added Di 3 it comes out to be strength 12...

that would penatrate something with armour 10 - 11 and glance armour 12..

What im trying to get at here is that would snipers be good tank hunting units?...

Like say you have a squad of scouts all with sniper rifles and you infiltrate behind the enemys tanks.. Most tanks have 10 or 11 back armour so shooting all ur weapons first turn could possibly kill an enemy tank, and if you have more then just 1 squad you could potentionally kill 2 tanks or even more..

They are a cheep unit too and very expendable...

So is this a good tactic? i know its a long shot but it could be done

snipers are really more suited for infantry and monstrous critters due to the rending rule...as for tank hunting you have to be really lucky to be able to pop light transports/vehicles. relying on a d3 for rending and even on the 6 to pen is wishful thinking. besides there are better things to pop armor and most are even good at dealing with infantry/.monstrous critters

It is an option but the math is against them.I have taken out a tank with an AC before,but never with Sniper Rifles.The Scouts may well prove to be more of a distraction for your opponent though and attract fire that would have gone into a " higher value " target.I would not consider them for tank hunting in the long run,maybe stick to pinning some of the tougher infantry in an opponents army rather than try to tank hunt them.

Riddick40k wrote:So is this a good tactic? i know its a long shot but it could be done

Shooting at a vehicle is IMO only worth it if there's no infantry/MCs to shoot. Rending is unreliable at best, basing your AT capability on it would be a disaster. Besides, go read the Infiltrate rule on page 75 of the BRB. You're not very likely to be able to deploy infiltrators behind the enemy in the standard scenarios so this makes it doubly unreliable as AT.

On paper, they're bad:

1/2 hit (for SM), 1/6 get a 6, 1/3 get a pen, so you need 36 shots to get one penetrating hit, and considering that only destroys on a 1/3, you really need 108 shots to destroy a tank.

However, YMMV and I wholly endorse shooting tanks with snipers.

Snipers would be a terrible choice to be fireing at a vehicle. the rarity of the case of rolling a 6 to rend, then a d6+d3 to pen is extremely unlikely.

your better off using said snipers to pick off big juicy MCs or expensive infantry

bucket - you rend on the "to AP" when rending vehicles, there is no 6 to hit requirement any longr (which is why rending is so much worse now, never mind just D3 extra)

The only likely candidate is the vindicare who gets 3D6 armour pen, with rending as well.

I would just like to see what my opponents face would look like if i killed his biggest baddest tank with something as cheap as a sniper rifle lol

Hmmm... I took out a stormraven with 5 pathfinders once... but i do get AP1 on a 5+ to hit...
It's highly unlikely that it will happen, but your playing with dice... anything can come up and if there are no other targets, you may as well go for it.

Are snipers good tank hunters? No. Can they kill tanks? Yeah, if you're lucky. Snipers may be cheap but remember that they're only one shot apiece.

Also, you can't really infiltrate behind enemy tanks. You could potentially outflank but you would count as moving and sniper rifles are heavy weapons.

Yes, it would be funny to watch someone lose their expensive heavily armored behemoth to a sniper rifle shot to the ass but if you're looking for anything even remotely resembling a reliable tank killing unit you should search elsewhere.

The only sniper that can kill a tank reliably is a Vindicare.
3D6 armour pen plus an aditional d3 for any six rolled on the 1st 3 dice. + of course the S3 for the rifle.

But common, even if you lose the game altogether you still win a personal victory as you see the enemy's biggest tank took pot shots from a sniper rifle into its butt and made it into a crater lol

Im not saying they are gonna be my tank hunter unit but i just think that its funny how they have the ability to blow something up

VikingScott wrote:The only sniper that can kill a tank reliably is a Vindicare.
3D6 armour pen plus an aditional d3 for any six rolled on the 1st 3 dice. + of course the S3 for the rifle.

... that and pathfinders though i wouldn't really want to use them on anything better then AV10 (I've been know to pop trukks but AP1 & opentop help lots with that)

Tri wrote:

VikingScott wrote:The only sniper that can kill a tank reliably is a Vindicare.
3D6 armour pen plus an aditional d3 for any six rolled on the 1st 3 dice. + of course the S3 for the rifle.

... that and pathfinders though i wouldn't really want to use them on anything better then AV10 (I've been know to pop trukks but AP1 & opentop help lots with that)

But at 22 points a model, they're too expensive in my opinion for their limited utility as a stationary non-scoring unit with a single S6 shot.

I'd never take them as tank killers. Or even dedicated anti-infantry.

But maybe that's just me.

SaintHazard wrote:

Tri wrote:

VikingScott wrote:The only sniper that can kill a tank reliably is a Vindicare.
3D6 armour pen plus an aditional d3 for any six rolled on the 1st 3 dice. + of course the S3 for the rifle.

... that and pathfinders though i wouldn't really want to use them on anything better then AV10 (I've been know to pop trukks but AP1 & opentop help lots with that)

But at 22 points a model, they're too expensive in my opinion for their limited utility as a stationary non-scoring unit with a single S6 shot.

I'd never take them as tank killers. Or even dedicated anti-infantry.

But maybe that's just me.

^_^ Eldar pathfinder ... Tau pathfinders don't have sniper rifles. My Scoring Eldar Pathfinders often spend much of the game picking targets, only getting assaulted later in the game if I'm unlucky. (though i only use one unit of them and more as a bate unit then as a shooty unit ... still every little helps)

Tri wrote:^_^ Eldar pathfinder ... Tau pathfinders don't have sniper rifles. My Scoring Eldar Pathfinders often spend much of the game picking targets, only getting assaulted later in the game if I'm unlucky. (though i only use one unit of them and more as a bate unit then as a shooty unit ... still every little helps)

Oh. Well.

Actually, Tau pathfinders can take rail rifles, which are the Tau equivalent of sniper rifles. Better at popping vehicles (than plain old S3 sniper rifles), worse at killing individual infantry. S6 AP3, heavy 1. So.

A friend of mine completely misinterpreted the rule(and used it as such at a tourney until he faced me and I corrected him); thinking the "d3" he got on the penetration roll of 6 meant his pathfinders got an additional D3, D6 for the penetration: his first game was against a BT player that allowed him to blow up his LRC with something like 5 Pathfinders. I told him that the d3 was the addition to the penetration roll, niot the number of extra d6 when he tried it on me(I even allowed him to choose an infantry target to fire at instead).

But yes in a very rare circumstance you may be able to damage a Vehicle with Sniper rifles; Eldar Rangers/pathfinders do it better what with gaining AP1 when a 6/5+ is rolled to hit; then again that requires several very high rolls in a row, so barring loaded dice it will be very very rare. to the point of not even being worth trying.

Definently would be a game changer

i've seen a sniper rifle SM scout take out a razorback on a death or glory... laughed for days... very possible and taking the Murphy's law for your opponent, it probably will happen

elegost wrote:i've seen a sniper rifle SM scout take out a razorback on a death or glory... laughed for days... very possible and taking the Murphy's law for your opponent, it probably will happen

that is one sniper with nerves of steel.

Umhh Rail Rifles don't have the Sniper Rule, they're just heavy 1 pinning. They don't get an extra d3 or rending.

Irdiumstern wrote:Umhh Rail Rifles don't have the Sniper Rule, they're just heavy 1 pinning. They don't get an extra d3 or rending.

No one saying they have rending

But you'll have to be blind not to see that they are the tau equivalent to a sniper rifle

kenshin620 wrote:

Irdiumstern wrote:Umhh Rail Rifles don't have the Sniper Rule, they're just heavy 1 pinning. They don't get an extra d3 or rending.

No one saying they have rending

But you'll have to be blind not to see that they are the tau equivalent to a sniper rifle

...Sniper rifle Strength 3 +D6 +D3 (4-12)... Vs Rail rifle Strength 6 + D6 (7-12) ... in many ways they're better Vs vehicles

Tri wrote:

kenshin620 wrote:

Irdiumstern wrote:Umhh Rail Rifles don't have the Sniper Rule, they're just heavy 1 pinning. They don't get an extra d3 or rending.

No one saying they have rending

But you'll have to be blind not to see that they are the tau equivalent to a sniper rifle

...Sniper rifle Strength 3 +D6 +D3 (4-12)... Vs Rail rifle Strength 6 + D6 (7-12) ... in many ways they're better Vs vehicles

Yes I know its better

I'm just pointing out that Fluffwise and Model wise, it is a sniper rifle

It just has better light anti armor capabilities

Irdiumstern wrote:Umhh Rail Rifles don't have the Sniper Rule, they're just heavy 1 pinning. They don't get an extra d3 or rending.

Would you mind quoting a single instance in this thread where a single person has said otherwise?

Thanks.

kenshin620 wrote:

Tri wrote:

kenshin620 wrote:

Irdiumstern wrote:Umhh Rail Rifles don't have the Sniper Rule, they're just heavy 1 pinning. They don't get an extra d3 or rending.

No one saying they have rending

But you'll have to be blind not to see that they are the tau equivalent to a sniper rifle

...Sniper rifle Strength 3 +D6 +D3 (4-12)... Vs Rail rifle Strength 6 + D6 (7-12) ... in many ways they're better Vs vehicles

Yes I know its better

I'm just pointing out that Fluffwise and Model wise, it is a sniper rifle

It just has better light anti armor capabilities

you miss understand i agree.

My (Eldar) Pathfinders have only popped a vehicle on a few occasions.

1) Apocolype, large area on their flank was bare, infiltrate behind! All i had to shoot as was ork units (who i wouldn't pin or dent in any way) or the rear armour of several basilisks... I destroyed 2 in 3 turns before the grots got to me and tied me up (but didn't manage to kill me)
2) Practice doubles, 400 points per player. I took some Pathfinders and destroyed a Storm Raven on turn 1...
3) Popped a vindicator on near the end of game for lack of better targets

Generally if i do hit a vehicle i don't do much damage, if any. I'd prefer my snipers to force a pinning test on something and hope they fail. Combined with a sligh obsession with EML (plasma = pinning) i can generally control the board that little bit better, even if my snipers arn't decimating enemy units left right and centre.

Additionally they are a scoring unit with +2 to cover. In my FLGS we often play with 3 or 4 storey ruins... perfect place for Pathfinders to hide on an objective with a 2+ cover save, safe from combat from all but the most determined players.

Shrike325 wrote:On paper, they're bad:

1/2 hit (for SM), 1/6 get a 6, 1/3 get a pen, so you need 36 shots to get one penetrating hit, and considering that only destroys on a 1/3, you really need 108 shots to destroy a tank.

However, YMMV and I wholly endorse shooting tanks with snipers.

I built a handy tool to do that math for you. Go to http://www.simhammer.com and plug in snipers from the vehicle simhammer

Snipers shooting as the side of a chimera have a ~1.86% per sniper of destroying the vehicle.
These are not betting odds that you want to take to the bank, but hey if your in a pinch why not eh?

Tri wrote:

kenshin620 wrote:

Tri wrote:

kenshin620 wrote:

Irdiumstern wrote:Umhh Rail Rifles don't have the Sniper Rule, they're just heavy 1 pinning. They don't get an extra d3 or rending.

No one saying they have rending

But you'll have to be blind not to see that they are the tau equivalent to a sniper rifle

...Sniper rifle Strength 3 +D6 +D3 (4-12)... Vs Rail rifle Strength 6 + D6 (7-12) ... in many ways they're better Vs vehicles

Yes I know its better

I'm just pointing out that Fluffwise and Model wise, it is a sniper rifle

It just has better light anti armor capabilities

you miss understand i agree.

labmouse42 wrote:

Shrike325 wrote:On paper, they're bad:

1/2 hit (for SM), 1/6 get a 6, 1/3 get a pen, so you need 36 shots to get one penetrating hit, and considering that only destroys on a 1/3, you really need 108 shots to destroy a tank.

However, YMMV and I wholly endorse shooting tanks with snipers.

I built a handy tool to do that math for you. Go to http://www.simhammer.com and plug in snipers from the vehicle simhammer

Snipers shooting as the side of a chimera have a ~1.86% per sniper of destroying the vehicle.
These are not betting odds that you want to take to the bank, but hey if your in a pinch why not eh?

I have a handy tool to do that math for you, too.

It's called a goddamn calculator. Failing that, a piece of goddamn paper.

...seriously, does nobody use these things anymore?

What's with all these mathhammer apps I keep seeing?