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A tyranid player at my friendly local gaming club is planning to run a list of three trygons (the exact details of what else he has is unknown). A friend and I have been considering how to both keep a well rounded all comers force while still being able to take down these monsters. I'm running Black Templars and he has Space wolves. he plans to have a Long Fang squad decked out with Lascannons to take it down, where I plan to have a Dread with twin linked lascannons and DCCW if it comes to a close combat bout. I'm not asking which is better, but do criticize our tactics and offer up any additional advice.

Don't you BT's have TH/SS termies with counter attack or prefered enemy or what ever weird special rules you can get? Personally a large unit of these should ruin a tygons day (stick it in a crusader to deal with the rest of the list quite well)

He needs missile launchers...not lascannons...and your dread is lunch for a trygon.

What do you have for high S weaponry?

wizard12 wrote:Don't you BT's have TH/SS termies with counter attack or prefered enemy or what ever weird special rules you can get? Personally a large unit of these should ruin a tygons day (stick it in a crusader to deal with the rest of the list quite well)

Its a 1,000 point campaign. I don't have much room for terminators, nor a crusader.

ductvader wrote:He needs missile launchers...not lascannons...and your dread is lunch for a trygon.

What do you have for high S weaponry?

The Lascannon, Two nine man crusader squads in rhinos each with meltaguns. The emperors champion has a black sword. I don't think an assault squad will do much against a trygon so I'll have them cover the shorter guys.

wizard12 wrote:Don't you BT's have TH/SS termies with counter attack or prefered enemy or what ever weird special rules you can get? Personally a large unit of these should ruin a tygons day (stick it in a crusader to deal with the rest of the list quite well)

Our BT TH/SS Termies can have Preferred Enemy (Through a vow..) and "Furious Charge" as a Veteran skill!

Remember that a model that loses a wound to a TH counts as I1 in the next round of combat.

Maybe a Predator Destructor with the Las cannon sponsons?..Two str9 shots and 2 str7 shots, or take the Heavy Bolter sponsons, they might work better on some big tyranid beastie!

High_Marshal_Helbrecht wrote:Maybe a Predator Destructor with the Las cannon sponsons?..Two str9 shots and 2 str7 shots, or take the Heavy Bolter sponsons, they might work better on some big tyranid beastie!

The campaign has some bizarre bonus points system, so I might consider getting one of them at some point.

Good advice guys!

For the space wolves player... a lucky JoTWW would be wonderfull...

Personally i pepper them with small/medium fire and charge in with harlies and rend it to death... maybe you could do something similar.

Combined arms is the way forward, concentrated small arms fire can be devestating, especially if he thinks his trygons are as tough as nails and ends up in a compromising position.
It most likely won't die, but would be sufficiently weakened to be easy pickings for an assault unit.
Just hope he doesn't move all 3 around together.

BTW, how many points are 3 trygons? in 1k points there will most likely not be much else... and the much else could quite easily be ignored as you bear down on the trygons.

Even a cheap and nasty M.launcher dev squad will do the job.

Much cheaper than las, wounds easy enough and is alot cheaper.
You can also then use them for smaller bugs if needed.
Also, heavy bolters would work just aswell due to number of shots (if not better)
They would also do better against smaller and medium bugs.

(not sure if BT's get dev's, if not, long fangs with that layout for the pups)



I'd try out a pred though if you cant take devs.
2 S7 and 6 S5 should do well on its own.

Ignore combat against it, not worth risking units.
Shooting is far more effective for marines.
Only times ive really lost a trygon is down to being shot to death (once in combat, but it had 3 wounds left and was against gazzy)

3 Vanilla trygons would be 600 points!...Thats quite a point sink in 1000 point games..

And sadly no, we BT don't get Dev Squads, the most we could have is a 5 man crusader squad with ONE heavy weapon and that in itself is 100 points! Say you mount that in a razorback with Twin-linked Heavy Flamers thats 195 points!

My choice for 1000 points of BT would be as follows!

HQ
Emps Champion with Accept Any Challenege - 140

Troops
5 Man Crusader Squad W/ 1 Missile Launcher + Flamer - 191
DT/ Razorback W/ Twin Linked Heavy-Flamers

5 Man Crusader Squad W/ 1 Missile Launcher + Flamer - 191
DT/ Razorback W/ Twin Linked Heavy-Flamers

5 Man Crusader Squad W/ 1 Missile Launcher + Flamer - 191
DT/ Razorback W/ Twin Linked Heavy-Flamers

Fast Attack
Land Speeder W/ Heavy Bolter - 50

Heavy Support
Predator Destrucor W/ Heavy Bolter Sponsons - 110
Predator Destrucor W/ Heavy Bolter Sponsons - 110

Total = 983

Thats alot of flame...
I'd consider making the razorbacks las/plas, Do BT get those? I havn't seen a BT codex in years...
Well anyway, las can take on tanks/MC at range and the plas is all purpose AP2 heaven.
If you need to burn things you still have flamers in the units.

(If you want that many flamers, play sisters)

Oh yeah, we get the Las, not sure on the Plas! as far as Razorbacks go that is!

I just figured a LARGE amount of flame on Nid's would be a good idea, if the opponent is going to sink 600+ points in Trygons.

I imagine the rest of the army will be cheap as possible hordes of gaunts!

ductvader wrote:He needs missile launchers...not lascannons...

This mentality is why FNP is so valuable in a Nid army now-a-days.

I actually have 12000 points in nids...but to make his list better for all comers...I still say missile launchers are the way to go.

ductvader wrote:I actually have 12000 points in nids...but to make his list better for all comers...I still say missile launchers are the way to go.

I don't know. I think maybe that was the way that it might have been once, but I'm not sure I agree anymore. Missile Launchers are versatile, but you may get, 2-3 turns out of them for their full versatility? Are there other armies you're going to use a mass of small blasts on? Against orks, you'll probably be using Krak to take out KFF BW's. Against Nids, you're probably be targeting the big bugs. Against mech, the frag missiles will do nothing.

I just don't agree with it anymore. Lascannons negate FNP. They eat terminators (krak would still give a termi a save and FNP). Lascannons have a better chance against armor. I mean, you all know these things. I don't have to enumerate their uses. I think people like the idea of having a backup blast weapon, but don't use it enough to validate the removal of a lascannon from their list.

If I see 5 Long Fangs with Missile Launchers, I breathe a little easier than I do if I see 5 with lascannons. Just my 2 cents, though.

Im also on the missile launcher bandwagon. They are MANY times cheaper, and the stats are real close. Not to mention they can then be used for templates when you down those big guys. If you pop the Trygons, your more then golden, the little bugs will be a push over. And dont be foolish and split your fire, keep firing everything at one Trygon a time until it falls. You dont want to wound a couple, you want one dead. Its less crap to deal with.

Good luck

Well i am siding with the lascannons personly, i have never had a problem with them, yet the missile launcher always buggers off into left field on me that and the fact the lascannon has a MUCH nicer punch to it (also ignors FNP )

Ive only ever killed a trygon with a leman russ executioner, which is less than ideal but we all understand desperate situations dont we.


Lascannons are less than optimum, you need some serious amount of lascannons to kill a trygon, especially when it comes into the table on its own terms and usually doesn't put its self in the line of fire.

A plasma command squad or a TH/SS squad will deal with one nicely. Landspeeders are also good for taking off the odd wound, and assault cannons are godly at everything.

If you want to be mean, what about spamming MM Attack Bikes? Cheaper than Speeders and the S8 AP1 is the best of both worlds when compared to the Lascannon vs Missile Launcher. You should be able to keep enough distance from yourself and the Trygons so that they can't catch you and even if they do, they're using a 200+ unit to kill a 50 point unit? Sounds like a fair trade to me.

They're not all that tough - low AP weapons make them cry, without those invulnerable saves..

Can I just say that twice I've used my Librarian in combat to kill it. The chances aren't that slim, especially on the charge. You just need to survive their attacks, then get your's in and hope they fail their save. Then BOOM! Instant Death time =p

Oshova

600 points seems a nightmare to me.. If he loses those bad boys he is gonna be in real trouble!

What about Sternguard? My favourite unit...I love them for mashing demons and big MCs, but i dunno.. whats a Trygons save?

Ten SG squadded in two Razorbacks will set you back what? 330?

Sit them down, shoot stuff with your TL-HB. Wait for the Trygons to get near (or even assault if you gotta) and then jump out, double tap with 5 guys, hit with 7, wound on 2s with HF bolts... I think some SG could seriously ruin the guys day, and they are just so versatile, whats not to like?

Long Fangs with missle launchers should do the trick. Trygons only have a 3+ armor save so las cannons are expensive over kill. Missle launchers are the cost effective weapon for long fangs. Yes trygons can get feels no pain from tervigons but you have a rune priest for the 4+ NO FNP. Jaws of the Win pwns their tervigons anyway. Add in some Las/plas razor transports for your grey hunters toting meltas and those TRY GONEs will be toast in a jiffy. If you really want to be a jerk ally in a Daemon Hunter Inquisitor with 2 Mystics and stick him near your long fangs so when the trygon deepstrikes he eats 5 missles in the face before doing anything. 2nd volley on your turn should kill him.

Multiple missile launchers will wound Trygon on 2+ and still no save. Save points go them get another squad.

Dreadnought will get diced on Trygon, especially if the Trygon has adrenal glands which let it strike first.

Need plasma, missile launchers, lascannons. Keep it at range and torrent one until it's dead. They have a prospect 18" so don't let them get close.

You don't need lascannons. Missile launchers hurt trygons exactly as much as lascannons (wound on 2+ and bypass their armor) for about half the price. Because you need saturation fire to take down trygons quickly, twice as many missiles is much better than a couple of lascannons.

Against trygons, typhoon speeders are much better than any other option.

You can get long fangs, plasma guns or sternguard poison guns etc. maybe for cheaper than a typhoon, but those units are all static. The deepstriking trygons pop up right in front of them, they get one shot off, kill maybe one trygon if they're lucky, then the other two trygons charge in and wipe them out.

A typhoon can zoom away 12" and still shoot its missiles, and the trygon will then be trying to hit it on 6's. Or if you have a lot of typhoons spread out, then you can zoom some 24" to completely escape the nearby trygons, leaving them stranded out on the table to get shot up by your other typhoons.

4 typhoons (360 points) can easily take down 3 trygons during the course of a game without taking any casualties themselves. In games of 1000 points, the trygons will be so expensive that, if you defeat them, the nid player won't have much left (and what he does have you can then proceed to shoot up with typhoon frag missiles and heavy bolters).

High_Marshal_Helbrecht wrote:3 Vanilla trygons would be 600 points!...Thats quite a point sink in 1000 point games..

And sadly no, we BT don't get Dev Squads, the most we could have is a 5 man crusader squad with ONE heavy weapon and that in itself is 100 points! Say you mount that in a razorback with Twin-linked Heavy Flamers thats 195 points!

My choice for 1000 points of BT would be as follows!

HQ
Emps Champion with Accept Any Challenege - 140

Troops
5 Man Crusader Squad W/ 1 Missile Launcher + Flamer - 191
DT/ Razorback W/ Twin Linked Heavy-Flamers

5 Man Crusader Squad W/ 1 Missile Launcher + Flamer - 191
DT/ Razorback W/ Twin Linked Heavy-Flamers

5 Man Crusader Squad W/ 1 Missile Launcher + Flamer - 191
DT/ Razorback W/ Twin Linked Heavy-Flamers

Fast Attack
Land Speeder W/ Heavy Bolter - 50

Heavy Support
Predator Destrucor W/ Heavy Bolter Sponsons - 110
Predator Destrucor W/ Heavy Bolter Sponsons - 110

Total = 983

You can't put Heavy Flamers on BT Razorbacks.

Also, almost every suggestion in this thread doesn't work for Templars.

Take Trilas or AC/Las predators and huge 20 man mobs w/ Melta and Powerfist. Whittle down the Trygons in shooting (even with pistols), then assault them and mulch them, since 40-60 attacks (depending on casualties) with preferred enemy is pretty much guaranteed to get some 6s to wound.

Using MM speeders/Attack bikes is also a pretty good option. Just watch out for Brainleech devourers or other high-S shooting.

Here's an example:

HQ:
Emperor's Champion, AAC

Troops:
10x Initiates, 10x Neophytes, PF, Meltagun
10x Initiates, 10x Neophytes, PF, Meltagun

Heavy Support:
Trilas Predator
Trilas Predator

Exactly 1000pts

For BT, don't they still get the cheaper LST w/ Ass Cannon? If so, that seems like a valid counter.

With the Crusader squads, what about going with smaller 10 man squads of 5I/5N to get more Power Fists on the table? Neophytes will die just like Initiates to a Trygon but will save you some points.

Oshova wrote:Can I just say that twice I've used my Librarian in combat to kill it. The chances aren't that slim, especially on the charge. You just need to survive their attacks, then get your's in and hope they fail their save. Then BOOM! Instant Death time =p

Oshova

So you need a 4 to hit, a 6 to wound, then pass a psychic test on 3d6 to id .... not very good odds to do anything but get munched on.

As for jawsing the trygon, well that wouldnt work very well, theyre Init 4, and get a bonus of 1 to their initiative test from being a MC, so they need to roll a 6 to die to jaws ...

Hmm, now that i think about it, trygons/mawlocs should be immune to jaws of the world wolf .... ohnoes ... you put me in the ground? good thing i spend most of my time swimming around down there?

kill dem stunties wrote:
As for jawsing the trygon, well that wouldnt work very well, theyre Init 4, and get a bonus of 1 to their initiative test from being a MC, so they need to roll a 6 to die to jaws ...

Hmm, now that i think about it, trygons/mawlocs should be immune to jaws of the world wolf .... ohnoes ... you put me in the ground? good thing i spend most of my time swimming around down there?

It's a minus -1 initiative, so they'll be dead on a 4+